What is Buddhism's views on smoking?
-
Okay, I summarise all your points.
What Buddhism views it as nothing more than a bad habit, not something desirable but it is neither wrong or right. It is just like other bad habits such as drinking, watching porn. -
Close. But it should be considered unvirtuous, since it harms yourself and others. Such indulgence diminish our original blissful nature, increase craving and dependency, and can lead to further bad consequences for oneself - disease, death, and for drinking, can make you do things you wouldn't want to be doing when you are sober, and even lead to accidents, family problems, death. These consequences are far reaching, a person with wisdom should look deeply into the matter.Originally posted by NUS_Superst@r:Okay, I summarise all your points.
What Buddhism views it as nothing more than a bad habit, not something desirable but it is neither wrong or right. It is just like other bad habits such as drinking, watching porn.
Especially in Buddhism, such consequences may carry on to further lifetimes. For example pornography seems innocent in the sense that "it's my business, I won't rape others". But such seeds of lust and images are planted in the 8th consciousness, making our mind impure, and in future lifetimes may ripen and we may commit worse kinds of adulteries. So instead of clearing our fetters, we strengthen our fetter of sensual craving.. as a pracittioner we would not act in this way. In Buddhism we should clear all these things, these cravings are rooted in ignorance. If we are sincere practitioners and want to uncover our fundamental ignorance and live in the blissfulness of dharma, we would get rid of such defilements. Furthermore we seek to uncover our ignorance, uproot them, and discover our primordial bright nature which is blissful, eternal, and pure.
So these things are not really just a matter of whether "sin" or "evil"... the choice ultimately is ours, free from condemn even if you made the choice of smoking. The advice is out of total good will and well wishing intention, Buddha accepts us even if we made and continue to make choices that are not in accordance with the Buddha's teachings. -
and one has to ponder : if a person is unable to break the mini-cycle of his or her addictions/attachments, how is one able to break the main-cycle of life and death?
my friends from pure land would testify that you cannot go to the heavenly west until there is no more attachments to this world. that is one of the three key qualifiers, isnt it? -
mmm how about gambling ?
lead to suffering ? when addicated ? perhaps i should continue in other post hur? -
all the same, different in form, but similar in heartOriginally posted by Isis:mmm how about gambling ?
lead to suffering ? when addicated ? perhaps i should continue in other post hur? -
If I am able to kick every bad habits in this world, I think I can go and be a monk. No sex, wine, meat, smoke, gambling. To me, this seems more like hell than paradise.
-
Well, if u r attached to all these sensual cravings/activities, of course it will be like hell to u. Buddhism don't force or demand people that they must kick every bad habits. Anyway It is not easy to kick these bad habits all at one go.Originally posted by NUS_Superst@r:If I am able to kick every bad habits in this world, I think I can go and be a monk. No sex, wine, meat, smoke, gambling. To me, this seems more like hell than paradise. -
I think there must be a balance between reality and buddhist's teachings. Cos I find it quite unrealistic and unpractical for any modern person to give up totally on the so-called undesirable cravings such as wealth and power.
-
There are quite a number of famous people who are rich and powerful who are also buddhist.U can browse through the archive in this forum to check who are these people. i think the thread is quite recent.Originally posted by NUS_Superst@r:I think there must be a balance between reality and buddhist's teachings. Cos I find it quite unrealistic and unpractical for any modern person to give up totally on the so-called undesirable cravings such as wealth and power.
ooh i do have craving for wealth and power too. We have not given up our attachment to worldly things.. not like monks and nuns. Thus it is very normal.
AEN has given u some very good info.. it is really up to u to decide what u want to incorporate into your life. Anyway, he did said that some highly-realised masters haven't give up smoking yet. When they have reached the non-returner stage, will one have given up all the sensual craving and this require alot of cultivation, practise and realization.
I think by then they will not reborn back into the human realm already.
AEN-> correct me if im wrong.
You can have a balance between reality and buddhist teachings. In buddhism, i don't think anyone can force u or buddhist to believe in something u don't believe in.
Happiness can come from within too.
There are reasons why to give up sensual cravings. Maybe u could like to find out why...
It also depends on how much u know about dharma, how deep is ur belief and realisation to give them up naturally. -
It may seem like hell to your ignorance and ego.. in reality it is not. Those who knows the dharma knows that indulgence is only temporary means of getting away from pain to pleasure, away from the mind, but it is not the ultimate solution, which is dharma. Buddhism, buddhadharma, is the culture of bliss (a quote by my master). A person who is truly enlightened is completely liberated and living in the highest bliss of nirvana: he is not caught in the dualism of samsara - the cycles of pleasure and pain, good emotions and bad emotions.Originally posted by NUS_Superst@r:If I am able to kick every bad habits in this world, I think I can go and be a monk. No sex, wine, meat, smoke, gambling. To me, this seems more like hell than paradise....Humans have been in the grip of pain for eons, ever since they fell from the state of grace, entered the realm of time and mind, and lost awareness of Being. At that point, they started to perceive themselves as meaningless fragments in an alien universe, unconnected to the Source and to each other.
Having sex won't shorten your lifespan or other people's life span though... unless you have casual sex with others, then of course, you risk STDs. As a Buddhist, there are 5 precepts, one of them is refrain from sexual misconduct, means, keep to your faithful partner, no adulteries. No intoxicants (i.e wine, intoxicating drugs, etc) are also one of the precepts, so Buddhists should try not to use alcohol for the purpose of intoxication/indulgence unless is really unavoidable purpose. Intoxicants not only causes one to do things one would not want to do, like crimes, and cause diseases, social/family problems, they can diminish one's samadhi and wisdom. It distrupts one's mental clarity. If you practise the dharma, at some point, you will naturally want to avoid such intoxicants or keep them to minimum. My dharma teacher drank by accident, mistaking ginseng wine for non-alcoholic drink, and my master tested alcohol only in small amount and realised one's wisdom (not just intelligence) is greatly impeded. See: The Harm of Alcohol & Intoxication
Pain is inevitable as long as you are identified with your mind, which is to say as long as you are unconscious, spiritually speaking. I am talking here primarily of emotional pain, which is also the main cause of physical pain and physical disease. Resentment, hatred, self-pity, guilt, anger, depression, jealousy, and so on, even the slightest irritation, are all forms of pain. And every pleasure or emotional high contains within itself the seed of pain: its inseparable opposite, which will manifest in time.
Anybody who has ever taken drugs to get "high" will know that the high eventually turns into a low, that the pleasure turns into some form of pain. Many people also know from their own experience how easily and quickly an intimate relationship can turn from a source of pleasure to a source of pain. Seen from a higher perspective, both the negative and the positive polarities are faces of the same coin, are both part of the underlying pain that is inseparable from the mind-identified egoic state of consciousness. ~ Eckhart Tolle
So what are the 5 precepts? No killing, no stealing, no false speech (lying etc..), no sexual misconduct, no intoxicants (wine, drugs, etc). As a Buddhist I do not feel forced at all to comply with these rules, like I mentioned earlier these are sincere advises and are not Buddha's commandments. "Commandment" is a strange and foreign word to a non-theist.http://www.jenchen.org.sg/vol4no1d.htm
2. Precepts are the basis of safeguarding blessings
When we are ignorant we lament over observing the Five Precepts. But, if we cannot abstain from killing, lying, stealing, sexual misconduct and being intoxicated, then we would have problems as human beings. Observing the precepts actually takes on a more advanced meaning in that it safeguards our blessings; breaking them means depleting our blessings. It is a simple rule of cause and effect.
SOME PEOPLE are afraid of taking refuge in the Three Treasures because they are afraid of having to observe the precepts. These people should be encouraged to take refuge first, and we then gradually inspire them to observe the precepts.
Jen Chen Buddhism advocates that everyone observes the Five Precepts (abstention from killing, lying, stealing, sexual misconduct and consumption of intoxicants). When we are encouraging others to take refuge and meet with those who rebut that because their work requires them to entertain and therefore they cannot observe the precept of not consuming alcoholic drinks, then it is permissible that he observes the other four precepts. It does not matter even if he observes just one precept. Even if one just take refuge without observing the precepts, it does not matter too. Having taken refuge to become a Buddhist, and with gradual guidance, there will come a day when he understands the importance of observing the precepts.
We promote Jen Chen Buddhism and encourage the masses to observe the precepts. However, at times we do not use the term "observe the precepts", instead we call it "means of safeguarding blessings". Everyone has his own blessings and although they differ in degree and nature, nobody likes their blessings to be reduced. The best way to safeguard blessings is to observe the precepts. Jen Chen Buddhism advocates that everyone observe the Five Precepts. If the Five Precepts are not observed, then one will commit wrong deeds that can then reduce oneÂ’s blessings.
LetÂ’s use a teacup as an example. If you put the teacup at the edge of the table, it has a higher probability of falling and shattering. If the teacup is placed in the middle of the table, then it is safe. Placing the teacup at the edge of the table is like we are at the brink of breaking the precepts; shattering the teacup is like destroying our blessings. Putting the teacup at the centre of the table is like observing the precepts. And, when the teacup is not broken, then it is like our blessings are assured. Innocent children, often put teacups along the edge of the table. Thus, adults will always teach them to put them at the centre. In the same way, the innumerable sentient beings are ignorant of the terror of cause and effect. They are always at the fringe of danger - by not observing the precepts, and committing various evil karma such as killing, theft, sexual misconduct and lying. That is why the compassionate Buddha and Bodhisattvas teach sentient beings to observe the precepts and enable them to distance from the danger and to safeguard their own blessings. Therefore, to safeguard our own bliss and at the same time not disturb others bliss, we need to cultivate the way of safeguarding our blessings. -
no one demands that a practitoner forego these things, buddhism merely teaches you not be mesmerised (pardon my spelling) by them, wealth and power are mere tools which cannot be truly "owned", they come and go by the way of karmal, in fact at its worldly level, buddhism teaches you to pursuit it with fun instead of anxiety and sleeplessness.Originally posted by NUS_Superst@r:I think there must be a balance between reality and buddhist's teachings. Cos I find it quite unrealistic and unpractical for any modern person to give up totally on the so-called undesirable cravings such as wealth and power. -
When it is linked to one's own survival in this society where money and power comes first, do you really think one will be enjoying it anyway?Originally posted by Xprobe:no one demands that a practitoner forego these things, buddhism merely teaches you not be mesmerised (pardon my spelling) by them, wealth and power are mere tools which cannot be truly "owned", they come and go by the way of karmal, in fact at its worldly level, buddhism teaches you to pursuit it with fun instead of anxiety and sleeplessness.
-
Desire but not Crave
-
i agree, you may think that not pursuing these things will make life meaningless and boring, but i can only tell you that the state of liberation and lightness you experience from cessation of desires cannot be descibed by mere words.Originally posted by An Eternal Now: -
My fren, what if one day u go broke ? will u be happy still ?Originally posted by NUS_Superst@r:When it is linked to one's own survival in this society where money and power comes first, do you really think one will be enjoying it anyway? -
2 questionsOriginally posted by NUS_Superst@r:When it is linked to one's own survival in this society where money and power comes first, do you really think one will be enjoying it anyway?
1. what is survival?
2. why do it if you dont enjoy it even perceptually? -
Practise does not contradict working for money actually...Originally posted by NUS_Superst@r:I think there must be a balance between reality and buddhist's teachings. Cos I find it quite unrealistic and unpractical for any modern person to give up totally on the so-called undesirable cravings such as wealth and power.
Wealth is really alright... actually there is a person in our forum... he's highly enlightened and can be said.. to have high attainments in practise and realisations. He's also a very successful businessman, a CEO, and he... hmm better not reveal his wealth later I'll get scolded
But he decided to retire soon.. maybe in two years for spiritual pursuits. (he just turned 40 this month)[01:06] hi
[01:06] eh
[01:06] <_wanderer_> hey jus invited u in, but the old one wants to see money rather than u
[01:06] lol
[01:06] hahaha
[01:06] <_wanderer_> i told u the wrong thing, he's not a taoist, but a materialist.
[01:06] i knew u would say that young one.
[01:06] lol
[01:07] really meh
[01:07] john u're materialistic?
[01:07] <_wanderer_> not just materialist, but mercenary
[01:07] <_wanderer_> hahaa
[01:07] yeah...the young one has just transfered some funds to me.
[01:07] a 1 with 20 zeros behind.
[01:07] <_wanderer_> and a decimal poitn in front
[01:07] <_wanderer_> lol
[01:08] ??
[01:08] wahahha
[01:08] what young one/?
[01:08] _wanderer_?
[01:08] <_wanderer_> yaya he's old and i'm young
[01:08] yeah
[01:08] lol
[01:08] then u thought young one is me eh?
[01:08] so wat were u all discussing
[01:08]
[01:09] hahaha
[01:09] $$$ of course.
[01:09] <_wanderer_> hahhaa
[01:09] oo icic
[01:09] lol
[01:09] <_wanderer_> john was talking about the bernadette roberts, then he decided to sleep
[01:09] <_wanderer_> lol
[01:09]
[01:09] yeah
[01:10] zennith intro bernadette roberts
[01:10] and young intro me $$$.
[01:10] <_wanderer_> hey, john u aspire to be pratyekabuddha?
[01:11] <_wanderer_> hehehehe
[01:11] <_wanderer_> b4 u sleep jus kajiao u
[01:12] young one, what advantage does pratyekabuddha has? -
(continue)
[01:12] <_wanderer_> hmm dun think he has money
Oh by the way, this IRC conversation took place in October last year.
[01:12] <_wanderer_> lol
[01:12] john, u got so much money
[01:12] then how could i aspire to be one?
[01:13] but do u spend them urself?
[01:13] i mean do u spend alot of money urself
[01:13] <_wanderer_> he got money, but can't use them, lao2 lu4 ming4
[01:13] or just give ur family
[01:13] -> -_wanderer_- huh wat that means
[01:13] <_wanderer_> pratyekabuddha, solitary realizer
[01:13] ooh haha
[01:13] with young one cursing me this way, how could i accumulate?
[01:13] <_wanderer_> lol
[01:13] lol
[01:14] <_wanderer_> old one..whatever i appear to be is ur own projection
[01:14] own is a fallacy. It does not exist.
[01:14] <_wanderer_> haha
[01:14] projection there is.
[01:14] condition arising has no mine.
[01:15] <_wanderer_> oh.... can ur $$ conditionally arise and conditionally be used by me?
[01:15] it can be conditionally urs and returned to me.
[01:15] <_wanderer_> can the conditionally arisen $$ temporarily appearing to belong to the conditionally arisen you, be used by the dependnetly arisen me?
[01:15] <_wanderer_> hehehe
[01:16] u arisen dependent on?
[01:16] <_wanderer_> ur money
[01:16] <_wanderer_> 'ur' 'money'
[01:16] <_wanderer_> haha
[01:16] * Thusness counts his $$$
[01:16] [01:15] <_wanderer_> oh.... can ur $$ conditionally arise and conditionally be used by me?
[01:16] [01:15] it can be conditionally urs and returned to me.
[01:16] LOL
[01:16] there..._wanderer_ arisen
[01:16] and again
[01:16]
[01:16] <_wanderer_> haha
[01:17] young one, have u met zennith b4?
[01:17] <_wanderer_> no, i dun think so
[01:17] not many has met me in the channel
[01:17] only a few
[01:18] 4 i tink
[01:18] <_wanderer_> yeah and i'm so anti-social
[01:18] ic.
[01:18] eh, 5
[01:18] <_wanderer_> lol but i think lester wants to meet up
[01:18] <_wanderer_> so one day we can all meet.
[01:18] <_wanderer_> and old one can give us all a treat.
[01:18] eh thevoice was wanting to make a channel outing
[01:18] lol using ur $$$.
[01:18] dunnu visit some kinda buddhist museum
[01:18] <_wanderer_> huh?
[01:19] <_wanderer_> i'll use my $$ to show u, then u can use ur $$ to pay.
[01:19] maybe longchen.
[01:20] huh??
[01:20] yeah to pay for my meal.
[01:20] see u confused the younger one.
[01:20] <_wanderer_> in order to gain enlightenment, john u need more merits
[01:20] <_wanderer_> u need VAST amounts of merits
[01:21] <_wanderer_> i just hoped to give u some chance to gain more merits
[01:21] <_wanderer_> since u dun have much compassion
[01:21] <_wanderer_> the only way is thru accumulating merits
[01:21] yeah...u can help me by giving me $$$ so that i can gain more merits.
[01:22] can i borrow compassion and merits?
[01:22] <_wanderer_> well actually u dun need to borrow, u hav them
[01:22] * Thusness looks around, can't find any
[01:22] i need to borrow from u.
[01:23] <_wanderer_> u can't find becoz u tried too hard to find hehe
[01:23] where is it?
[01:23] <_wanderer_> show it to me
[01:23] i don't have
[01:24] <_wanderer_> when u try to find it u lost it
[01:24] i din find, i just don't have.
[01:24] <_wanderer_> don't have what/
[01:24] anything, compassion, merits...
[01:25] <_wanderer_> no wonder u can't find
[01:25] yeah...so can i borrow?
[01:25] <_wanderer_> unfortunately u can't....in a way u can though, like the funds i transferred to u.
[01:26] why funds can and compassion can't
[01:26] <_wanderer_> can, in the way i transferred funds to u, u can borrow my compassion and merits
[01:26] <_wanderer_> when u wake up, u can't find them
[01:27] i won't find them...heheh...i just use them.
[01:27] <_wanderer_> haha
[01:27] <_wanderer_> how to use somethign u can't even find
[01:27] <_wanderer_> how to use ur buddha nature when u can't even find it
[01:27] like u r using now.
[01:28] <_wanderer_> so if compassion and merits are manifestations of buddha nature, why can't u find them
[01:29] i din find them, coz i don't have compassion and merits.
[01:29] i need to borrow.
[01:29] from _wanderer_.
[01:29] <_wanderer_> if u dun hav them, how can u even hold them when u borrow
[01:30] i din hold them, i use them coz its yours.
[01:31] when u give me, i use them to become richer.
[01:31] <_wanderer_> lol
[01:31] <_wanderer_> and the wealth belongs to?
[01:31] i don't even keep it for a thought-moment.
[01:31] <_wanderer_> me.
[01:31] <_wanderer_> the generated income belongs to me
[01:31] <_wanderer_> lol
[01:32] it's share. U only have the part u gave me. Don't taim sim.
[01:32] <_wanderer_> well u dun keep it even for a thought-moment
[01:32] <_wanderer_> so for all the thought-moments it belongs to me.
[01:32] i din say i have it wat.
[01:32] i said u have ur part.
[01:32] <_wanderer_> which is everything.
[01:33] * Q changes topic to ' The Sky's Excellent Path: A Concise Explanation of the Great Vehicle�'
[01:33] depends on u when u have it or not.
[01:33] whether -
Here's an interesting video conversation with Byron Katie, titled: Video: Inquiry - "I Panic About Losing Money..."
Recommend all materialistic people to watch it
-
Originally posted by Xprobe:
it's called western pureland, rather than 'heavenly'. heaven is associate with good deeds, while pureland is associate with pure deeds. pure is mean neither bad nor good.
and one has to ponder : if a person is unable to break the mini-cycle of his or her addictions/attachments, how is one able to break the main-cycle of life and death?
my friends from pure land would testify that you cannot go to the heavenly west until there is no more attachments to this world. that is one of the three key qualifiers, isnt it?
the three keys are faith, vow and practice. and yes detachment also play a very important role in practicing pure deeds/karma for rebirth in pureland.
/\ -
paisei paisei, not used to english terminologiesOriginally posted by sinweiy:it's called western pureland, rather than 'heavenly'. heaven is associate with good deeds, while pureland is associate with pure deeds. pure is mean neither bad nor good.
the three keys are faith, vow and practice. and yes detachment also play a very important role in practicing pure deeds/karma for rebirth in pureland.
/\ -
very few people actually can understand & apply the real truthful buddhist practice in terms of merging the relative mundane reality with spiritual living. when a lay buddhist steps out into the corporate society, he recognises what's greed or craving. when he becomes successful, others look up to him & follow his steps. some would comment saying that eee... he's a buddhist & he's now so wealthy, successful & powerful in the corporate world. wonder if he's truly a buddhist? - like buddhist aren't suppose to have craving for wealth or power & stuff. the thing here that these people who can't "see" is that his wealth & power is not the material form of wealth & power though they look so materialistic (for a buddhist). but instead it is a non-form kinda power/ wealth / power without any pursuit. when a person has gone insight into the real nature of reality & the undescribable vastness of expansion, there is just unlimited treasures to be uncovered. ordinary people only can see material form of wealth or power but they cannot see the true essence of the treasures. so there are only very very few people in this world who are truly wealthy & powerful built by their own hands cos they see beyond these "form". i'm not saying it out from no where cos i have really witnessed such people around me. & these people are the ones who put spiritual practice into mundane life & tho they are very rich & powerful, they are also ready to give up everything anytime. cos no matter how much you give, you'll take back as much.Originally posted by NUS_Superst@r:I think there must be a balance between reality and buddhist's teachings. Cos I find it quite unrealistic and unpractical for any modern person to give up totally on the so-called undesirable cravings such as wealth and power. -
and oh yeah i must add on to this..
u need not to be a buddhist to give up on power and money...
A person who is simple and live a contented life, may not need to actively pursuing all these activities. -
and since when did bohdisavas dress up like beggars to entice the public, look at them, they are all in jewelry drapes, all sparkle and shine
-
anyway just to add on for some casual sharing so as not to be too uptight about views for a short moment. let's say a person buys a land to build a small house for himself or for investment then one day he decides to dig the ground to build some basement and there he found oil underneath his land. whose oil does it belong to? what if one day the piece of land were to be burnt or destroyed by fire, is the land still there? yes of cos it's not gone still there. people do not see the essence but more on the forms of things as wealth & power which limits their vision, creativity & expansion. there was once a person who told me this, "i shall be the soil to build lands & buildings." people laughed at him for being so naive & dreamy, but they missed out the spiritual aspect of his approach & being that is beyond all those material temporary forms of riches & power. they didn't get the idea of him being the real walking gold & power over the industry. people always miss the depth and pass them off as shallow.Originally posted by paperflower:very few people actually can understand & apply the real truthful buddhist practice in terms of merging the relative mundane reality with spiritual living. when a lay buddhist steps out into the corporate society, he recognises what's greed or craving. when he becomes successful, others look up to him & follow his steps. some would comment saying that eee... he's a buddhist & he's now so wealthy, successful & powerful in the corporate world. wonder if he's truly a buddhist? - like buddhist aren't suppose to have craving for wealth or power & stuff. the thing here that these people who can't "see" is that his wealth & power is not the material form of wealth & power though they look so materialistic (for a buddhist). but instead it is a non-form kinda power/ wealth / power without any pursuit. when a person has gone insight into the real nature of reality & the undescribable vastness of expansion, there is just unlimited treasures to be uncovered. ordinary people only can see material form of wealth or power but they cannot see the true essence of the treasures. so there are only very very few people in this world who are truly wealthy & powerful built by their own hands cos they see beyond these "form". i'm not saying it out from no where cos i have really witnessed such people around me. & these people are the ones who put spiritual practice into mundane life & tho they are very rich & powerful, they are also ready to give up everything anytime. cos no matter how much you give, you'll take back as much.