Spirituality is deep science rather than narrow science.
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Ken Wilber - Spirituality and the 3 Strands of Deep Science
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wX_W1BB_0M&mode=related&search=
most people are still at the level or understanding of narrow science.
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Thanks.. I think what he said is v true
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Ken Wilbur belongs to TalkingCock.com. Does that mean mad people can understand spirituality similiarly to sane people?
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Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
Is this meant to be a personal insult? If that's so, it is very immature. If you have nothing better to say, then better keep silent. This forum does not tolerate such immature behaviors.
Ken Wilbur belongs to TalkingCo[b]ck.com. Does that mean mad people can understand spirituality similiarly to sane people?[/b]
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Welcome to Buddhism: Wisdom Bliss, a Buddhist forum created in October 2004 for the sharing and discussion of authentic Buddhadharma (Buddhist teachings), in order that we may attain Wisdom and Bliss in our lives.
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Not a personal attack, but I would suggest that he does some research before he starts giving public talks. So far, most people know about the topics mentioned in TalkingCock.com are quite nonsensical and similiar in vein to what Ken is talking about.
Is this meant to be a personal insult? If that's so, it is very immature. If you have nothing better to say, then better keep silent. This forum does not tolerate such immature behaviors.
[b]~ Buddhism: Wisdom Bliss ~
Welcome to Buddhism: Wisdom Bliss, a Buddhist forum created in October 2004 for the sharing and discussion of authentic Buddhadharma (Buddhist teachings), in order that we may attain Wisdom and Bliss in our lives.
I would also like to clarify certain confusion that may have arisen recently. Our forum has no affiliation whatsoever with other forums like [--] SEA OF AFFINITY )=l, and neither does the forum owner of Sea of Affinity claim that it is a Buddhist forum. Much of their practises are also not part of Buddhism, but is part of cultural and traditional practises that is not related to Buddhism.
Rules & Regulations
1) Treat all posters with respect. Always check your karma and its fruit from participating in this forum.
2) No posting with multiple identities (clones).
3) ~Buddhism: Wisdom Bliss~ reserves the right to publish, republish, delete or modify all discussions without asking for permission to do so.
4) Do not use offensive or vulgar language. Any postings of insulting texts, urls, images will be removed by moderators without any notices.
5) Do not engage in personal attacks. Posts of such nature will be removed by moderators without any notices.
6) Everyone regardless of religions or beliefs are welcome to post in our forum, but there shall be no promotion of Non-Buddhism materials, products, or religions/spiritual practices unless exceptional cases and received permission by moderators. All URLs related to the various traditions not recognised by our forum will also be removed without notice. (See: Schools/Traditions/Sects NOT Recognised In Our Forum)
7) Chit chat topics should be posted in “Lounge” threads in the forum, in order to reduce off-topic replies in various threads.
[/b] -
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
Instead of just saying that what Ken said is nonsense, maybe you can explain why what he said is nonsense.
Not a personal attack, but I would suggest that he does some research before he starts giving public talks. So far, most people know about the topics mentioned in TalkingCo[b]ck.com are quite nonsensical and similiar in vein to what Ken is talking about.[/b] -
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
The topics in talkingcock.com is not nonsensical but rather they try to project their views to people in a humurous way.
Not a personal attack, but I would suggest that he does some research before he starts giving public talks. So far, most people know about the topics mentioned in TalkingCo[b]ck.com are quite nonsensical and similiar in vein to what Ken is talking about.[/b] -
I just left a single point in my first statement. I was talking that can the insane understand anything about spirituality in the same terms as the sane.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Instead of just saying that what Ken said is nonsense, maybe you can explain why what he said is nonsense. -
No. There are certain karmic obstructions that may prevent one from knowing the dharma, including insanity. Well I think it depends on what you mean by insanity too. And animals, etc, also cannot understand because they are too ignorant. So a (normal) human is the best. Low IQ still can though, because there are recorded cases in history of people with low IQ who attained arhatship.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:I just left a single point in my first statement. I was talking that can the insane understand anything about spirituality in the same terms as the sane.
And anyway, how has 'insane' got to do with Ken Wilber? If that's not meant to be an insult, then what is it?
And since you think it is nonsensical, then why exactly do you think it is nonsensical? So far you haven't answered these questions. -
I debate his logic that spirituality is a science which can be seen with proper understanding.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:No. There are certain karmic obstructions that may prevent one from knowing the dharma, including insanity. Well I think it depends on what you mean by insanity too. And animals, etc, also cannot understand because they are too ignorant. So a (normal) human is the best. Low IQ still can though, because there are recorded cases in history of people with low IQ who attained arhatship.
And anyway, how has 'insane' got to do with Ken Wilber? If that's not meant to be an insult, then what is it?
And since you think it is nonsensical, then why exactly do you think it is nonsensical? So far you haven't answered these questions. -
And I disagree with you. How do you think he is wrong? So far you haven't refuted any point he said.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:I debate his logic that spirituality is a science which can be seen with proper understanding. -
You get the meaning of paradigm shift? By forcing a paradigm shift, you shifted someone's true nature. Next, according to the buddhist stories I know, there are certain animals granted buddha nature. One of them is the peacock buddha mother.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:And I disagree with you. How do you think he is wrong? So far you haven't refuted any point he said. -
Paradigm shift is in regards to theories and perspectives, but not intuitive, direct experience. So you can look out of the telescope and see a lot of stars, and have thousands of interpretations of what you see. And indeed some spiritual experiences can be interpreted differently, especially among different spiritual traditions. But in regards to our deepest nature, which is beyond space and time, and therefore beyond all conceptual fabrication, it is not something we can fabricate with our mind. It is ground reality, means, whatever states of consciousness is going on, it is only ripples on the surface of the Universal Mind. The ripples are different states of consciousness, or paradigm shifts (which are just a matter of perpective).Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:You get the meaning of paradigm shift? By forcing a paradigm shift, you shifted someone's true nature. Next, according to the buddhist stories I know, there are certain animals granted buddha nature. One of them is the peacock buddha mother.
All sentient beings including all animals have Buddha Nature. But certain karmic obstructions can render him to be unable to see his Buddha Nature. -
Forced prospectives are not one's views and cannot be part of one's Buddha Nature. You havn't heard about Kong Que Fo Mu is it? It was granted buddhahood immediately on helping Buddha up Thunder Peak.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Paradigm shift is in regards to theories and perspectives, but not intuitive, direct experience. So you can look out of the telescope and see a lot of stars, and have thousands of interpretations of what you see. And indeed some spiritual experiences can be interpreted differently, especially among different spiritual traditions. But in regards to our deepest nature, which is beyond space and time, and therefore beyond all conceptual fabrication, it is not something we can fabricate with our mind. It is ground reality, means, whatever states of consciousness is going on, it is only ripples on the surface of the Universal Mind. The ripples are different states of consciousness, or paradigm shifts (which are just a matter of perpective).
All sentient beings including all animals have Buddha Nature. But certain karmic obstructions can render him to be unable to see his Buddha Nature. -
Take a look at this and tell me how the science we know of today explains this:
http://www.life-enthusiast.com/twilight/research_emoto.htm
and contrary to the science classes i took when i was in school, they actually broke down electrons into smaller denominations and to date, they found that part of it is non-matter (not physical, no weight) -
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
I never said prospective is buddha nature.
Forced prospectives are not one's views and cannot be part of one's Buddha Nature.You havn't heard about Kong Que Fo Mu is it? It was granted buddhahood immediately on helping Buddha up Thunder Peak.
No. Where did you hear it?
By the way, enlightenment cannot be 'granted'. -
the 3 strands are actually set of rules to approach a finding, hence it's very scientific rules. like if there's an accident at location x, to confirm, you need someone to go to location x and see. Take pictures or collect samples.
The three strands of deep science—injunction, apprehension, confirmation.
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However, in the day-to-day work of his labs, the creativity of photographers rather than the rigor of the experiment is the explicit policy of Emoto.Originally posted by Xprobe:Take a look at this and tell me how the science we know of today explains this:
http://www.life-enthusiast.com/twilight/research_emoto.htm
and contrary to the science classes i took when i was in school, they actually broke down electrons into smaller denominations and to date, they found that part of it is non-matter (not physical, no weight)
Emoto freely acknowledges that he is not a scientist, and that photographers are instructed to select the most pleasing photographs.
Ever studied about tachyons? -
Why bother to be reborn as a human? Even karma cannot be without intelligence.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:No. There are certain karmic obstructions that may prevent one from knowing the dharma, including insanity. Well I think it depends on what you mean by insanity too. And animals, etc, also cannot understand because they are too ignorant. So a (normal) human is the best. Low IQ still can though, because there are recorded cases in history of people with low IQ who attained arhatship.
And anyway, how has 'insane' got to do with Ken Wilber? If that's not meant to be an insult, then what is it?
And since you think it is nonsensical, then why exactly do you think it is nonsensical? So far you haven't answered these questions. -
And not only the 3 strands are needed, the effect must be reproducible in any subject.Originally posted by sinweiy:the 3 strands are actually set of rules to approach a finding, hence it's very scientific rules. like if there's an accident at location x, to confirm, you need someone to go to location x and see. Take pictures or collect samples.
The three strands of deep science—injunction, apprehension, confirmation.
/\ -
And not only the 3 strands are needed, the effect must be reproducible in any subject.Originally posted by sinweiy:the 3 strands are actually set of rules to approach a finding, hence it's very scientific rules. like if there's an accident at location x, to confirm, you need someone to go to location x and see. Take pictures or collect samples.
The three strands of deep science—injunction, apprehension, confirmation.
/\
And we come to the term, 'pseudo science'.
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thanks, i'll look it upOriginally posted by Herzog_Zwei:Ever studied about tachyons? -
A human can practise dharma and attain enlightenment so a human life is precious in Buddhism.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:Why bother to be reborn as a human? Even karma cannot be without intelligence.
I don't understand your second question... intelligence is the result of karma. -
Oh of course. Anyone.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:And not only the 3 strands are needed, the effect must be reproducible in any subject.
I don't suppose you mean animals because they wouldn't even understand how to conduct experiments nor understand its effects
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There is no pseudo science or non-pseudo science, only bad science or good science. If it is as you mentioned plus reproducible, it is good science.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:And not only the 3 strands are needed, the effect must be reproducible in any subject.
And we come to the term, 'pseudo science'.