Originally posted by Xprobe:
i am totally objective on this because it is none of my business
but,
1. the sources you gave are pro-DL
2. DL admitted that he took refuge in xiongtian and latter left it because of problems( see www.buddhanet.com.tw/dl/dl-14.htm) - hey cmon, the DL is suppose to be Guan Yin reincarnation, how can Guan Yin make this kind of mistake? or are we going to explain this away with another reference to skilful means?
not picking a fight, i will stop here
1. There are more objective sources, such as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shugden
2. It is complex and political, but it is not merely a political issue. As all the main teachers of the other three main schools (Nyingma, Kagyu, Sakya) have made very firm stance about Shugden not being an enlightened being. Great scholars such as Jamyang Khyentse Chokyi Lodro (proponent of the Rimey/non-sectarian movement), HE Trulshik Rinpoche (Nyingmapa master), HH Sakya Trizin (Head of Sakya) have all openly warned disciples not to practice Shugden due to its harmful intent.
3. What you pointed out about HHDL being a Guan Yin emanation warrants another topic of discussion, as you will have to understand the meaning of "emanation" in Tibetan Buddhism. However, bearing in mind the importance of the "Guru" in Vajrayana practice, the fact that 14th HHDL's teacher Trijiang Rinpoche taught him the "Shugden" practice, puts him in a v difficult position. Yet, when he realized the sectarian nature of this being, HHDL had to make the decision to denounce the practice.
As early as 5th HHDL had already denounced the practice. 13th HHDL also denounced it, but after his death, his disciple Pabongkha spread it and also changed the status of Shugden from a worldly spirit to an enlightened being. Pabongkha also replaced the three protectors of Gelugpa tradition to other beings by himself, a move that is definitely not in accordance with the Vajrayana practice. Trijiang Rinpoche supported Pabongkha and eventually when 14th HHDL was found, Trijiang Rinpoche taught the practice to 14th HHDL, despite the 13th HHDL strongly advocating against the practice.
4. Some quotes from WIkipedia:
" Driving this dispute is the inherent nature of Dorje Shugden, which is to "protect" the Gelugpa lineage from adulteration by the traditions of other lineages, especially the Nyingmapa. His practice includes a promise not even to touch a Nyingma scripture, and several pro-Shugden lamas have said Shugden will kill those who violate this vow. "...
"Today none of the four main schools of Tibetan Buddhism accept Shugden as a Dharmapala, citing his origin and activities against other schools. Many high masters from the other Tibetan Buddhist schools (Kagyu, Nyingma and Sakya) agreed with the view of the 14th Dalai Lama that Shugden (Dhogyal) is a worldly spirit with demonic power. Shugden was not taught by Buddha, Atisha, or Tsongkhapa, or any Indian Tantric yogi or Indian Pandit who form the basis of Tibetan Buddhism. So Shugden was not accepted as an official part of the Gelug school by the Ganden Tripa, the Head of the Gelugpas. Because the worship of Shugden has created many conflicts within the Tibetan Buddhist community (for instance it is said that disciples of Lama Pabongkha destroyed Nyingma monasteries and statues of Padmasambhava and converted these monasteries into Gelug monasteries — and not only Nyingmapas had many difficulties with that spirit, also Kagyu practitioners made cleaning rituals after they visited Gelug monasteries), the 14th Dalai Lama used his status as the spiritual and political head of all the Tibetans to speak out about the sectarian harm of that practice. Then he asked Shugden followers not to come to his teachings, because there is no basis for a faithful teacher-disciple relationship if they don't believe his proofs. He also gave advice to all Gelug monasteries to stop the practice and to support harmony within the whole Tibetan Buddhist community. But of course in Tibetan Buddhism every one has the personal freedom not to follow his advice, and the Dalai Lama asked the Tibetan Buddhists to do the practice in private if they cannot give it up. Nowadays there are members of the Gelug school (for instance in Sera Monastery, India) who follow his advice, and there are some members who do not...
"One member of the Tibetan Government in Exile (Kashag) made the suggestion that practitioners of Dolgyal should not be allowed to hold public office within the Tibetan Government in Exile, but this personal suggestion was not accepted by the Tibetan Government in Exile...
5. Statement from Amnesty International:
The Shugden followers tried to receive a statement from Amnesty International (AI) that the Tibetan Goverment in Exile (specifically the 14th Dalai Lama) has violated human rights. However, AI replied in an official press release:
None of the material AI has received contains evidence of abuses which fall within AI's mandate for action — such as grave violations of fundamental human rights including torture, the death penalty, extra-judicial executions, arbitrary detention or imprisonment, or unfair trials.[53]
Worded as it is, Amnesty's statement clearly treads a fine line, neither asserting nor denying the validity of the allegations against the CTA (Central Tibetan Administration), nor finding either side culpable in the dispute. ... Amnesty International: Regarded “spiritual issues” and state affairs as separate, whilst seeing the command-based nation-state as the fundamental framework for understanding the category of ‘actionable human rights abuses’. Fundamental to this were linked criteria of state accountability and the exercise of state force, neither of which could clearly be identified within the CTA context. Whilst a prima facia case of infringement of religious freedoms within Tibetan refugee communities certainly existed, the absence of definable nation-state command structures precluded the formulation either of accountability or unavoidable jurisdiction essential to the formulation of a ‘human rights violation’.[54]
6. I agree with all that it's a highly complex issue. It is difficult to investigate, and not necessary some times. However, if one has the intent or wish to be associated with groups and events that are associated with Shugden, then for his/her own benefit, I would invite one to really explore and investigate deeply into the issue of the Shugden controversy.
Metta.