The Limitation of science in dealing with Reality

• An Eternal Now

  10 Dec 06, 01:05

  Longchen posted this in his forum, I copied it over
  
  

  The Limitation of science in dealing with Reality
  
  As Beings, the conventional mind only sees interpretations of Reality.
  
  Why is this so? This is because, firstly Sensory data are interpretations(manifested form) of reality. Why are they interpretations and are not the direct experiencing of it (Reality)? To illustrate this point...lets consider the perception of 2 person: a color-blind person and one with normal vision. The color-blind person may sees images differently from one who is not. So... who is seeing the truth?...none. Both are seeing interpretations(manifested form) of the Truth. Likewise animals may see and sense things differently from humans.
  
  Sensory datas that are being percieved are in turn cognated by the conventional mind. Again, the conventional mind sees interpretations collected by sensory perception. From the sensory datas, the conventional mind conceive the informations into things, environments and people... A simplified example is that by differentiating the changes in colours on the vision sight, the conventional mind cognate edges... with the edges connected... the enclosed area become percieved as objects, things, entities...
  
  The conventional mind can only theorizes from its interpretations. Science is based on the theory and concepts derived from the conventional mind.
  
  Science is just that... conceptual framework for understanding the dynamics of Reality... But it can only theorizes using concepts.
  
  To truly experience Reality...one must go beyond thinking (which is theorising) about Reality. We must experience it directly.
  
  PS: From the way that I have written... some people might have the misconceptions that the Source(Reality) is separated from us. This is clearly not so. It is the conventional discriminating mind that think in terms of separation and duality. However, the conventional discriminating mind itself is not an entity, but is just the dualistic function of cognition.

• An Eternal Now

  10 Dec 06, 01:08

  omg I just realised he posted it in The Garden forum too (the new gnostic forum)
• Herzog_Zwei

  10 Dec 06, 03:04

  I should start a thread on the limitation of Buddhism dealing with reality....
• longchen

  10 Dec 06, 08:43

  Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:

  I should start a thread on the limitation of Buddhism dealing with reality....

  Oh... You found it.
  
  This article was written especially for you...
  
  Hope that you can read it SLOWLY and CLEARLY.
• sinweiy

  10 Dec 06, 09:07

  Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
  I should start a thread on the limitation of Buddhism dealing with reality.... [/b]

  sure, that would be interesting.
  
  /\
  
• Herzog_Zwei

  10 Dec 06, 13:03

  Originally posted by longchen:

  Oh... You found it.
  
  This article was written especially for you...
  
  Hope that you can read it SLOWLY and CLEARLY.

  I only found a piece of unintelligent posting.
• An Eternal Now

  10 Dec 06, 13:20

  Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:

  I only found a piece of unintelligent posting.

  As far as i see it there is nothing wrong with his posting. So if you think otherwise you need to explain why.
• Cenarious

  10 Dec 06, 17:28

  this also reminded me not to think so much
• Herzog_Zwei

  11 Dec 06, 02:57

  Originally posted by An Eternal Now:

  As far as i see it there is nothing wrong with his posting. So if you think otherwise you need to explain why.

  He purposes that reality exceeds our sensory albilities.... What happens when reality equals our sensory albilities?
• longchen

  11 Dec 06, 09:16

  Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:

  He purposes that reality exceeds our sensory albilities.... What happens when reality equals our sensory albilities?

  The sensorial experience is the manifested aspects of Reality. However, our cognitive conventional mind very seldom get to experience them in the raw state. That is... the conventional mind seldom gets to experience them as 'it is'. Experiencing them as 'they really are' is very different from expereincing them thru the distortions of the conventional mind.
  
• justdoit77

  11 Dec 06, 10:46

  Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:

  I should start a thread on the limitation of Buddhism dealing with reality....

  Then you need to understand what is buddhism first.
• Herzog_Zwei

  12 Dec 06, 07:13

  Originally posted by longchen:

  The sensorial experience is the manifested aspects of Reality. However, our cognitive conventional mind very seldom get to experience them in the raw state. That is... the conventional mind seldom gets to experience them as 'it is'. Experiencing them as 'they really are' is very different from expereincing them thru the distortions of the conventional mind.
  

  I think your mind is distorted... For most purposes, your normal sensory perception is adequate.
• Herzog_Zwei

  12 Dec 06, 07:14

  Originally posted by justdoit77:

  Then you need to understand what is buddhism first.

  After the last quote from longchen, I don't think I want to know unless I wish to have a lenghty stay in IMH.
• longchen

  12 Dec 06, 08:21

  Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:

  After the last quote from longchen, I don't think I want to know unless I wish to have a lenghty stay in IMH.

  I understand your pain...
  
  I also sense your curiousity about spiritual matters...otherwise you won't be going to the religious forums to actively debunk them. If you are not interested, you will simply be bochap.
  
  OK... all the best to you.
• justdoit77

  12 Dec 06, 09:32

  Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:

  After the last quote from longchen, I don't think I want to know unless I wish to have a lenghty stay in IMH.

  His last quote is a bit chim, if you can't digest it, you can always start from the basic buddhism teaching.
  Things like keeping precepts, do good and avoid evils are rather simple to understand.
  
  I will look forward to see your thread on "limitation of buddhism in dealing with reality or XYZ"
  Any form of dharma debate is always welcome, just like what happened in tibet buddhism monastries.
• neutral_onliner

  12 Dec 06, 23:24

  Originally posted by justdoit77:

  His last quote is a bit chim, if you can't digest it, you can always start from the basic buddhism teaching.
  Things like keeping precepts, do good and avoid evils are rather simple to understand.
  
  I will look forward to see your thread on "limitation of buddhism in dealing with reality or XYZ"
  Any form of dharma debate is always welcome, just like what happened in tibet buddhism monastries.

  The best way to understand the strengths of a philosophy is to attempt to refute it!
  
• Herzog_Zwei

  15 Dec 06, 15:33

  Originally posted by longchen:

  The sensorial experience is the manifested aspects of Reality. However, our cognitive conventional mind very seldom get to experience them in the raw state. That is... the conventional mind seldom gets to experience them as 'it is'. Experiencing them as 'they really are' is very different from expereincing them thru the distortions of the conventional mind.
  

  As I said:" What makes you think you are not experiencing them as they really are?"
• An Eternal Now

  28 Jan 07, 01:20

  Oh no sorry for bumping.. 'submitted' at wrong place.. wanted to post in enci's topic