buddhism is alright but still faulty.....
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i do learn from budhhism ..some of his concepts like controlling desire is very good source of learning materials...
but seriously many of its other theories are plain crap...
1) morality is quite wrong
human is selfish and it is the actually right to be selfish...
however to be selfish in a right way is a knowledge....
2) karma is another crap
the problem with buddhism is that it fails to learn from the basis of science.
theories have to be verifable...... if it cannot be experimentally carried out...
we do not make another hypothesis and conclusions
but i am amazed that buddhist believe in recarniations.....
therefore.. buddhist lack reasoning skills seriously in these areas... -
r u buddhist? or wat
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nah.. i not a buddhist
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Rebirth cannot be scientifically proven.
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Here is a good read about why Buddha himself was very reluctant to spread the Dharma.
http://www.interactivebuddha.com/eleventharmy.html -
It can be scientifically proven, but not disproven. In fact much studies has been done and there are proofs of rebirth.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:Rebirth cannot be scientifically proven.
See: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/. 20 years of research. Also look for Ian Stevenson's works.
http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/qanda05.htmQuestion:
You have talked a lot about rebirth but is there any proof that we are reborn when we die?
Answer:
Not only is there scientific evidence to support the Buddhist belief in rebirth, it is the only after-life theory that has any evidence to support it. There is not a scrap of evidence to prove the existence of heaven and of course evidence of annihilation at death must be lacking. But during the last 30 years parapsychologists have been studying reports that some people have vivid memories of their former lives. For example, in England, a 5 year-old girl said she could remember her "other mother and father" and she talked vividly about what sounded like the events in the life of another person. Parapsychologists were called in and they asked her hundreds of questions to which she gave answers. She spoke of living in a particular village in what appeared to be Spain, she gave the name of the village, the name of the street she lived in, her neighbors' names and details about her everyday life there. She also fearfully spoke of how she had been struck by a car and died of her injuries two days later. When these details were checked, they were found to be accurate. There was a village in Spain with the name the five-year-old girl had given. There was a house of the type she had described in the street she had named. What is more, it was found that a 23-year-old woman living in the house had been killed in a car accident five years before. Now how is it possible for a five year- old girl living in England and who had never been to Spain to know all these details? And of course, this is not the only case of this type. Professor Ian Stevenson of the University of Virginia's Department of Psychology has described dozens of cases of this type in his books. He is an accredited scientist whose 25 year study of people who remember former lives is very strong evidence for the Buddhist teaching of rebirth.Question:
Well, have there been any scientists who believe in rebirth?
Answer:
Yes. Thomas Huxley, who was responsible for having science introduced into the 19th century British school system and who was the first scientist to defend Darwin's theories, believed that reincarnation was a very plausible idea. In his famous book 'Evolution and Ethics and other Essays', he says:
In the doctrine of transmigration, whatever its origin, Brahmanical and Buddhist speculation found, ready to hand, the means of constructing a plausible vindication of the ways of the Cosmos to man... Yet this plea of justification is not less plausible than others; and none but very hasty thinkers will reject it on the ground of inherent absurdity. Like the doctrine of evolution itself, that of transmigration has its roots in the world of reality; and it may claim such support as the great argument from analogy is capable of supplying.
Then, Professor Gustaf Stromberg, the famous Swedish astronomer, physicist and friend of Einstein also found the idea of rebirth appealing. Opinions differ whether human souls can be reincarnated on the earth or not. In 1936 a very interesting case was thoroughly investigated and reported by the government authorities in India. A girl (Shanti Devi from Delhi) could accurately describe her previous life (at Muttra, five hundred miles from Delhi) which ended about a year before her "second birth." She gave the name of her husband and child and described her home and life history. The investigating commission brought her to her former relatives, who verified all her statements. Among the people of India reincarnations are regarded as commonplace; the astonishing thing for them in this case was the great number of facts the girl remembered. This and similar cases can be regarded as additional evidence for the theory of the indestructibility of memory. Professor Julian Huxley, the distinguished British scientist who was Director General of UNESCO believed that rebirth was quite in harmony with scientific thinking. There is nothing against a permanently surviving spirit-individuality being in some way given off at death, as a definite wireless message is given off by a sending apparatus working in a particular way. But it must be remembered that the wireless message only becomes a message again when it comes in contact with a new, material structure - the receiver. So with our possible spirit-emanation. It... would never think or feel unless again 'embodied' in some way. Our per venalities are so based on body that it is really impossible to think of survival which would be in any true sense personal without a body of sorts... I can think of something being given off which would bear the same relation to men and women as a wireless message to the transmitting apparatus; but in that case 'the dead' would, so far as one can see, be nothing but disturbances of different patterns wandering through the universe until... they... came back to actuality of consciousness by making contact with something which could work as a receiving apparatus for mind. Even very practical and down-to-earth people like the American industrialist Henry Ford found the idea or rebirth acceptable. Ford was attracted to the idea of rebirth because, unlike the theistic idea or the materialistic idea, rebirth gives you a second chance to develop yourself. Henry Ford says: I adopted the theory of Reincarnation when I was twenty-six. Religion offered nothing to the point.. Even work could not give me complete satisfaction. Work is fume if we cannot utilize the experience we collect in one life in the next. When I discovered Reincarnation it was as if I had found a universal plan. I realized that there was a chance to work out my ideas. Time was no longer limited. I was no longer a slave to the hands of the clock... Genius is experience. Some seem to think that it is a gift or talent, but it is the fruit of long experience in many lives. Some are older souls than others, and so they know more... The discovery of Reincarnation put my mind at ease... If you preserve a record of this conversation, write it so that it puts men's minds at ease. I would like to communicate to others the calmness that the long view of life gives to us.
So the Buddhist teachings of rebirth does have some scientific evidence to support it. It is logically consistent and it goes a long way to answering questions that theistic and the materialistic theories fail to do. But it is also very comforting. What can be worse than a theory of life that gives you no second chance, no opportunity to amend the mistakes you have made in this life and no time to further develop the skills and abilities you have nurtured in this life. But according to the Buddha, if you fail to attain Nirvana in this life, you will have the opportunity to try again next time. If you have made mistakes in this life, you will be able to correct yourself in the next life. You will truly be able to learn from your mistakes. Things you were unable to do or achieve in this life may well become possible in the next life. What a wonderful teaching! -
i do learn from budhhism ..some of his concepts like controlling desire is very good source of learning materials... [/quote]
Glad you learn from Buddhism too. And yes indeed, Buddhism is not only about morality but mainly it offers a very profound way of finding the highest, lasting bliss of nirvana and freedom from all sufferings. It offers insights into the ultimate nature of reality, not only in theory, but in direct experience. Therefore Morality, Concentration, Insights are the three trainings of Buddhism. (I posted a topic on that recently)1) morality is quite wrong
We have the right to be selfish (if you mean looking after one's interests). But we do not have the right to be selfish and cause suffering in others. All laws and order is to prevent one from harming others in the cause of seeking benefits for oneself.
human is selfish and it is the actually right to be selfish...
however to be selfish in a right way is a knowledge....2) karma is another crap
All these things can be proven and verifiable, but the main 'way' of proving is not through the so called 'modern science'. Because the 'modern science' methods do not exist in Buddha's era. In fact no scientific way can ever replace the way to proof spiritual truth - meditation. That is the right scientific method that anyone can do and reproduce the evidence for themselves. Countless others has done the experiment and seen for themselves even today. Including quite a few experienced ones in this forum and my dharma teachers and many others I do not know.
the problem with buddhism is that it fails to learn from the basis of science.
theories have to be verifable...... if it cannot be experimentally carried out...
we do not make another hypothesis and conclusions
but i am amazed that buddhist believe in recarniations.....
therefore.. buddhist lack reasoning skills seriously in these areas...
Spirituality is still not under the domain of modern science - modern science knows so little but consciousness, they know about brain and brainwaves but nothing about consciousness. Honest scientists will tell you that.
Buddhism and Science article - it contains a very good talk by Ajahn Brahmavamso. I highly recommend everyone to read the whole thing.
[quote]Originally posted by concerned_man:Remembering Past Lives
Buddhism is founded on meditation, and meditation can reveal many, many things, especially deep memories from the past. Monks, nuns, and ordinary meditators can reach such deep meditations that they can not only levitate, but they can remember previous lives! Many people can actually do this. When you come out of a deep meditation you have incredible energy. Afterwards you won't be able to go to sleep, nor will you be able to go and watch TV, because the mind will be too full of its own joy and happiness. Moreover, the mind is so empowered that you can make suggestions to it, suggestions that you would not normally be able to fulfil. But empowered by deep meditation, you can follow the suggestions. I've actually taught this special meditation to people on meditation retreats, because on meditation retreats some get deep results. People sometimes get memories of when they were babies, and then of being in their mother's womb. If they are lucky they get memories of when they were a very old person, i.e. memories from a past life! One of the important things with those past life memories is that they are very real to the person experiencing them. It's as if you are back there experiencing it. Anyone who has had a memory like that has no doubt in their mind about past lives. It's not a theory any more. Such memories are like remembering where you were this morning when you had breakfast. You have no doubts that that was you this morning, having that breakfast. You didn't imagine it. With the same clarity, or even greater clarity, you remember that that very old person was you, only it wasn't a few hours ago, it was many decades ago. It was a different time, a different body and a different life. Now if people can do that on nine day meditation retreats, imagine what you would do if you were a monk or a nun, who meditates not just for a weekend, or for nine days, but nine years, twenty-nine, thirty-nine, or fifty-nine years. Imagine how much power you could generate in that meditation. Now imagine how much more power you could generate if you were a Buddha with an Enlightened mind.
Now you know what to do to discover for yourself if you've lived before. Meditate. I don't mean just meditating to get rid of stress and make your self calm. I mean really meditate, deeply. Meditate to get your mind into what we call the Jhānas. Those are deep states of absorption, where the body disappears. You don't feel. You can't see. You can't hear. You're absolutely inside the mind. You have no thoughts but you are perfectly aware. You are blissed out. The method, the instructions for the experiment, are very clearly laid down. Even in my little book "The Basic Method of Meditation" all the steps are there. Follow them, and invest the resources necessary for doing that experiment not just one weekend retreat, but many weekend retreats, and sometimes many years of meditating. If you want to follow that 'scientific method', you have to enter into a Jhāna. And then, after you emerge from that state, you ask yourself, "What is my earliest memory?" You can keep going back in your mind, and eventually you will remember. You will see for yourself the experience of past lives. Then you know. Yes, it is true! You have had the experience for yourself.
The Buddha said he did remember past lives, many past lives, many aeons of past lives. He said specifically that he remembered ninety-one aeons. That's ninety big bangs, the time before and the time afterwards, huge spaces of time. That's why the Buddha said there was not just one universe, but many universes. We are not talking about parallel universes as some scientists say. We are talking about sequential universes, with what the Buddha called sanvattati vivattati. This is Pāli, meaning the unfolding of the universe and the infolding of it, beginnings and endings.
The suttas even give a measure for the lifetime of a universe. When I was a theoretical physicist, my areas of expertise were the very small and the very large; fundamental particle physics and astrophysics. They were the two aspects that I liked the most, the big and the small. So I knew what was meant by the age of a universe and what a 'big bang' was all about. The age of a universe, the last time I looked in the journals, was somewhere about seventeen thousand million years. In the Buddhist suttas they say that about thirty seven thousand million years is a complete age. When I told that to the state astronomer he said yes, that estimate was in the ball park, it was acceptable. The person who was the convener of the Our Place in Space seminar made a joke about the fact that a hundred or two hundred years ago, Christianity said the universe was about seven thousand years old. That estimate certainly isn't acceptable, the Buddhist one is!
It is remarkable that there was a cosmology in Buddhism twenty-five centuries ago that doesn't conflict with modern physics. Even what astronomers say are galaxies, the Buddha called wheel systems. If any of you have ever seen a galaxy, you will know there are two types of galaxy. First, there is the spiral galaxy. The Milky Way is one of those. Have you seen a spiral galaxy? It is like a wheel! The other type is the globular cluster, which looks like a wheel with a big hub in the middle. 'Wheels' is a very accurate way of describing galaxies. This was explained by someone twenty five centuries ago, when they did not have telescopes! They didn't need them, they could go there themselves!
There is a lot of interesting stuff in the old suttas, even for those of you who like weird stuff. Some times people ask this question, "Do Buddhists believe in extra terrestrial beings, in aliens?" Would an alien landing here upset the very foundation of Buddhism? When I was reading through these old suttas I actually found a reference to aliens! It's only a very small sutta, which said that there are other world systems with other suns, other planets, and other beings on them. That's directly from the Anguttara Nikāya. (AN X, 29) -
More..Originally posted by concerned_man:Come and See for Yourself
If you had just one person who had been confirmed as medically dead who could describe to the doctors, as soon as they were revived, what had been said, and done during that period of death, wouldn't that be pretty convincing? When I was doing elementary particle physics there was a theory that required for its proof the existence of what was called the 'W' particle. At the cyclotron in Geneva, CERN funded a huge research project, smashing atoms together with an enormous particle accelerator, to try and find one of these 'W' particles. They spent literally hundreds of millions of pounds on this project. They found one, just one 'W' particle. I don't think they have found another since. But once they found one 'W' particle, the researchers involved in that project were given Nobel prizes for physics. They had proved the theory by just finding the one 'W' particle. That's good science. Just one is enough to prove the theory.
When it comes to things we don't like to believe, they call just one experience, one clear factual undeniable experience, an anomaly. Anomaly is a word in science for disconcerting evidence that we can put in the back of a filing cabinet and not look at again, because it's threatens our worldview. It undermines what we want to believe. It is threatening to our dogma. However, an essential part of the scientific method is that theories have to be abandoned in favour of the evidence, in respect of the facts. The point is that the evidence for a mind independent of the brain is there. But once we admit that evidence, and follow the scientific method, then many cherished theories, what we call 'sacred cows' will have to be abandoned.
When we see something that challenges any theory, in science or in religion, we should not ignore the evidence. We have to change the theory to fit the facts. That is what we do in Buddhism. All the Dhamma of the Buddha, everything that he taught, if it does not fit the experience, then we should not accept it. We should not accept the Buddha's words in contradiction of experience. That is clearly stated in the Kālāma Sutta. (AN III, 65) The Buddha said do not believe because it is written in the books, or even if I say it. Don't just believe because it is tradition, or because it sounds right, or because it's comforting to you. Make sure it fits your experience. The existence of mind, independent of the brain, fits experience. The facts are there.
Sometimes, however, we cannot trust the experts. You cannot trust Ajahn Brahm. You cannot trust the scientific journals. Because people are often biased. Buddhism gives you a scientific method for your practice. Buddhism says, do the experiment and find out for your self if what the Buddha said is true or not. Check out your experience. For example, develop the method to test the truth of past lives, rebirth and reincarnation. Don't just believe it with faith, find out for yourself. The Buddha has given a scientific experiment that you can repeat.
Until you understand the law of kamma, which is part of Buddhism, kamma is just a theory. Do you believe that there is a God 'up there' who decides when you can be happy or unhappy? Or is everything that happens to you just chance? Your happiness and your suffering in life, your joy, your pain and disappointments, are they deserved? Are you responsible or is it someone else's fault? Is it mere chance that we are rich or poor? Is it bad luck when we are sick and die at a young age? Why? You can find the true answer for yourself. You can experience the law of kamma through deep meditation. When the Buddha sat under the Bodhi tree at Bodhgaya, the two knowledge's he realized just before his Enlightenment were the knowledge from experience of the truth of rebirth, and the knowledge from experience of the Law of kamma. This was not theory, not just more thinking, not something worked out from discussions around the coffee table this was realization from deep experience of the nature of mind. You too can have that same experience.
All religions in the world except Buddhism maintain the existence of a soul. They affirm a real 'self', an 'essence of all being', a 'person', a 'me'. Buddhism says there is no self! Who is right? What is this 'ghost in the machine'? Is it a soul, is it a being, or is it a process? What is it? When the Buddha said that there is no one in here, he never meant that to be just believed, he meant that to be experienced. The Buddha said, as a scientific fact, that there is no 'self'. But like any scientific fact, it has to be experienced each one for themselves, paccattam veditabbo viññūhī. Many of you chant those Pāli words every day. It is basic scientific Buddhism. You have to keep an open mind. You don't believe there is 'no self', you don't believe there is a 'self' both beliefs are dogmatism. Keep an open mind until you complete the experiment. The experiment is the practice of sila, samādhi and pañña, (virtue, meditation and insight). The experiment is Buddhist practice. Do the same experimental procedures that the Buddha did under the Bodhi tree. Repeat it and see if you get the same results. The result is called Enlightenment.
Men and women have repeated that experiment many times over the centuries. It is in the laboratory of Buddhist practice that the Enlightened Ones, the Arahants, arise. The Arahants are the ones who have done the experiment and found the result. That's why Buddhism always has been the scientific way. It is the way of finding out for your self the truth of Enlightenment. -
More on the website itself...Originally posted by concerned_man:Buddhism is also the scientific way of discovering the truth about happiness, what most people are interested in. What is happiness? Some students from our local Islamic school came to visit our monastery a short while ago. I performed a little party trick for them, which was also an illuminating way to demonstrate the existence of the mind. I was trying to explain Buddhism, so I asked them:
"Are you happy? Put your hands up if you are happy now".
At first there was no response. Then one person responded and raised their hand.
"Oh! You're all miserable?" I said "Only one person, come on! Are you happy or not?"
More students put there hands up.
"Okay, all those people who put their hands up saying they are happy, with your index finger can you now point to that happiness? Can you give it coordinates in space?" They couldn't locate that happiness.
It's hard to locate happiness, isn't it? Have you ever been depressed? Next time you are depressed, try to point to that feeling with your index finger! You will find that you cannot locate depression, or happiness, in space. You cannot give it coordinates, because these things reside in the mind, not in the body, not in space. The mind is not located in space. That's why after a person dies, if they become a ghost they can appear all over the world immediately. People sometimes ask me, "How can that happen?" How can a person who dies, say in New York, appear immediately in Perth? It is because the mind is not located in space, that's why. This is why you cannot point to happiness, you cannot point to depression, but they are real. Are you imagining the happiness? Do you imagine the depression? It's real. You all know that. But you cannot locate it in three dimensional space. Happiness, depression, and many other real things, all live in mind-space.
The mind is not in the brain, it's not in the heart. We have seen that you could have no brain but still have a mind. You could take out your heart, and have a bionic heart, or a heart transplant, and you would still be you. This understanding of the mind is why Buddhists have no objection at all to cloning. You want to clone me, go for it! But don't think that if you clone Ajahn Brahm that you'll be able to have one Ajahn Brahm who goes to Singapore this evening, another one who stays in Perth for next Friday night's talk, plus one who can stay in Bodhinyana monastery, one who can go to Sydney, and one who can go to Melbourne. If you clone me, the person who looks like me will be completely different in personality, knowledge, inclination, and everything else. People clone Toyota cars in the same way. They look exactly the same but the performance really depends on the driver inside the car. That's all cloning is, it's just a replicating a body. Sure it looks the same, but is the body all that a person is? Haven't you seen identical twins? Are identical twins the same personality? Have they got the same intelligence? Have they got the identical inclinations? Do they even like the same food? The answer is usually no.
Why do people have this problem about cloning? Clone as much as you want. You are just creating more bodies for streams of consciousness to come into. Those streams of consciousness come from past lives. What's the problem? You would never be able to predict the result. Suppose you took Einstien's brain, extracted some of his DNA, and cloned a new Einstien. He might look the same, but I guarantee he won't be half as clever.
If people want to proceed with stem cell research, which is going to help humanity, then why not? In stem cell research there is no 'being' involved. The 'being' hasn't come in yet. In Buddhism, it is understood that the 'being' descends into the mother's womb at any time from conception until birth. Sometimes it doesn't even go into the womb at all and the foetus is stillborn. The objections to stem cell research are dogmatic, unscientific, and uncompassionate. They're foolish as far as I'm concerned. I think sometimes that I would tear my hair out if I weren't a monk.
If you want to look at the scientific evidence for rebirth, check out Professor Ian Stevenson. He spent his whole life researching rebirth on a solid scientific basis at the University of Virginia.[4] Chester Carlson, the inventor of xerography, (encouraged by his wife) offered funds for an endowed chair at the University to enabled Professor Stevenson to devote himself full-time to such research. If it weren't for the fact that people do not want to believe in rebirth, Dr. Ian Stevenson would be a world famous scientist now. He even spent a couple of years as a visiting fellow of Magdalene College in Oxford, so you can see that this is not just some weird professor; he has all of the credentials of a respected Western academic.
Dr. Stevenson has over 3000 cases on his files. One interesting example was the very clear case of a man who remembered many details from his past life, with no way of gaining that information from any other source. That person died only a few weeks before he was reborn! Which raises the question, for all those months that the foetus was in the womb, who was it? As far as Buddhism is concerned, the mother kept that foetus going with her own stream of consciousness. But when another stream of consciousness entered, then the foetus became the new person. That is one case where the stream of consciousness entered the mother's womb when the foetus was almost fully developed. That can happen. That was understood by Buddhism twenty five centuries ago. If the stream of consciousness doesn't enter the mother's womb, the child is a stillborn. There is a heap of evidence supporting that. -
i have an answer to all ur frustrationOriginally posted by january:i do learn from budhhism ..some of his concepts like controlling desire is very good source of learning materials...
but seriously many of its other theories are plain crap...
1) morality is quite wrong
human is selfish and it is the actually right to be selfish...
however to be selfish in a right way is a knowledge....
2) karma is another crap
the problem with buddhism is that it fails to learn from the basis of science.
theories have to be verifable...... if it cannot be experimentally carried out...
we do not make another hypothesis and conclusions
but i am amazed that buddhist believe in recarniations.....
therefore.. buddhist lack reasoning skills seriously in these areas...
it
is
ha ha ha
u will know it when u see this zen riddle -
Oh and also... see the reason topic How do I see my past lives which has an interesting discussion thereOriginally posted by An Eternal Now:More..
Sorry guys for posting so many posts and not all at once.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:did you? how will i know whether you had?
or u mean me? no. I'm not one of them. I'm still amatuerish in practise and still quite new to Buddhism actually. (i'm 16) I know one of my ex moderator and longchen had memories of past lives. Longchen was a Westerner in past life who fought in World War 1 in France, he did not die but his life was ruined, therefore explaining his trauma or fear of war in this life. After that he became a mystic in a Western spiritual tradition in the past life living in Belgium and making a living as an artist.. this life he is also acquinted with western mysticism (he is not really Buddhist now, although he is interested in Buddhism) This also explains why when he visited Belgium (this life), he felt so familiar like he had lived there before. Also, this life, he also makes a living doing art (more precisely, digital art). Two lifetimes ago, he was a Tibetan monk from the Nyingma sect, and that explains why he shown interest in the Dzogchen teachings (taught in Nyingma tradition).
One of my past lives of my ex moderator was the Persian king who built many famous buildings in India like the Taj Mahal. He was killed by his son. He was disturbed after remembering and did some 'healing' before returning to normal. He had remembered many many other lifetimes, even as a monk, even including one that he was a Dolphin several lifetimes ago. There could be others who had memories of past lives in this forum but did not want to discuss it openly.
My Buddhist master and teachers also certainly did remember their past lives, they were teachers in a Zen Monastery in Kyoto in previous life. Some of the japanese monks visited one of my taiwanese teachers and my taiwanese teacher could even speak Japanese to them (not that he learnt in this life, he could remember). They even brought one of their past life photo and it looked eerily similar to his current looks. My local dharma teacher has also went back to Japan to visit her old monastery too, if memory serves.
Anyway, interesting article I posted in the forum before: Boy remembers Past Life Being Shot in WWII
Because sgForums allows a very limited amount of text to be posted in one post, otherwise it will become "[Post is too long. Click here to view this post.]", and when expired it will not be read-able. -
But when discussing these things it's better to be serious.Originally posted by bohiruci:i have an answer to all ur frustration
it
is
ha ha ha
u will know it when u see this zen riddle -
i dont even know what he is postingOriginally posted by An Eternal Now:But when discussing these things it's better to be serious. -
Who?Originally posted by Cenarious:i dont even know what he is posting -
bohiruciOriginally posted by An Eternal Now:Who? -
I believe he meant dont take things too seriously?Originally posted by Cenarious:bohiruci -
Hi,
Through Buddhism we learn about realities which can be directly experienced. Buddhism does not teach particular concepts we have to believe in, but it teaches that development of understanding of all realities within ourselves and around ourselves. Thus we can verify the truth. Buddhism teaches that real cause of all that happens in our life, such as gain and loss, praise and blame, honour and dishonour, misery and well-being. We learn that pleasant and unpleasant experiences through the senses are the results of kamma, good and bad deeds committed in the past. Everything which happens in our life has conditions, through Buddhism we learn about cause and effect. When we understand more about conditions we can face difficult situations in life and develop more wholesome states of mind.
-
Hi January continue to explore more and deeper.. maybe at this stage, u are having serious doubts and lacking faith. It is good of u to actually reason.Originally posted by january:i do learn from budhhism ..some of his concepts like controlling desire is very good source of learning materials...
but seriously many of its other theories are plain crap...
1) morality is quite wrong
human is selfish and it is the actually right to be selfish...
however to be selfish in a right way is a knowledge....
2) karma is another crap
the problem with buddhism is that it fails to learn from the basis of science.
theories have to be verifable...... if it cannot be experimentally carried out...
we do not make another hypothesis and conclusions
but i am amazed that buddhist believe in recarniations.....
therefore.. buddhist lack reasoning skills seriously in these areas...
Btw Buddhist believe in concept of "reborn" and not reincarnation. Im not sure ur idea of an reincarnation is actually clear or having the same meaning in buddhism teachings.
sorry arh i disagreed with the statement 'morality is wrong' cos it is kind of misrepresentation of what is morality. Sharing can be a joy. Let say you are rich and powerful but without someone to share your achievement, will you still be happy? Morality is rather subjective, depending on individual's moral values which can be influenced not just by religion.
is karma really crap? As far as i have experienced, the idea is more than having an intellectual understanding of it. Do u have a good knowledge on what it is like in buddhism? -
Erm... if I am not wrong. In that life, I joined a Western Mystical group first before i participated in World War 1.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:did you? how will i know whether you had? Laughing
I know one of my ex moderator and longchen had memories of past lives. Longchen was a Westerner in past life who fought in World War 1 in France, he did not die but his life was ruined, therefore explaining his trauma or fear of war in this life. After that he became a mystic in a Western spiritual tradition in the past life living in Belgium and making a living as an artist.. this life he is also acquinted with western mysticism (he is not really Buddhist now, although he is interested in Buddhism) This also explains why when he visited Belgium (this life), he felt so familiar like he had lived there before. Also, this life, he also makes a living doing art (more precisely, digital art). Two lifetimes ago, he was a Tibetan monk from the Nyingma sect, and that explains why he shown interest in the Dzogchen teachings (taught in Nyingma tradition).
Also it is possible to trace (though not really neccessary) the series the events that lead to one doing certain things or having certain conditions in life. I know why I became a monk... it was due to certain events in a previous life (before Tibetan monk) that triggered the desire to do so. I also knew what (the karmic tendency) caused me to end up being in World War 1. However, I do not wish to lay out my intimate personal stuffs on a public forum.
This goes to show that karma and past-life are not really crap.
But then skeptics will alway say otherwise. -
Oh I see..Originally posted by longchen:Erm... if I am not wrong. In that life, I joined a Western Mystical group first before i participated in World War 1.
Also it is possible to trace (though not really neccessary) the series the events that lead to one doing certain things or having certain conditions in life. I know why I became a monk... it was due to certain events in a previous life (before Tibetan monk) that triggered the desire to do so. I also knew what (the karmic tendency) caused me to end up being in World War 1. However, I do not wish to lay out my intimate personal stuffs on a public forum.
This goes to show that karma and past-life are not really crap.
But then skeptics will alway say otherwise. -
Hi January continue to explore more and deeper.. maybe at this stage, u are having serious doubts and lacking faith. It is good of u to actually reason.
my belief in death is that one no longer exist forever.
Btw Buddhist believe in concept of "reborn" and not reincarnation. Im not sure ur idea of an reincarnation is actually clear or having the same meaning in buddhism teachings.
sorry arh i disagreed with the statement 'morality is wrong' cos it is kind of misrepresentation of what is morality. Sharing can be a joy. Let say you are rich and powerful but without someone to share your achievement, will you still be happy? Morality is rather subjective, depending on individual's moral values which can be influenced not just by religion.
is karma really crap? As far as i have experienced, the idea is more than having an intellectual understanding of it. Do u have a good knowledge on what it is like in buddhism?
from buddhism belief, their belief is that there is still continuation of life after death for the person which is not true.....
what is being moral? the is a very subjective question...
when you see a person in trouble and you can easily help him, you will usually do it because it is easy for you. like giving up seats and helping people to pick up things...
but when the help involves is bigger and if it may involve the safety of your own self, then you are more unlikely to help.
selfish theory focuses on self, and this is important because it ensures safety to the self. if you think about it, we are usually thinking about ourselves our beliefs and what we are going to do. self centredness is an essential character of self.
sometimes , people need to cooperate also because of selfish theories... you cooperate and help others because in the end, it will lead to an effect of helping yourself because teamwork create a bigger power than individual...
i therefore dun see how one should be moral..... most people dun do immoral act because there are laws, punishments and social scolding that will occur along with it.....
if nobody is going to scold you and hate, and if all the punishment are removed, then people will do things that were labeled immoral in the past....
karma is crap i did not explain it qiute detail.... there is this part where it says that our past lives are linked to present and future life but the point is there are no past lives or future life... a single self only has one life which starts with birth and ends with death....
lastly,.. in science and engineering, theories and experiements often lead to applications and invention of things... and things where everyone can see, and observe
buddhism can talk about rebirth theory but its all talk and there is no concrete thing at all.... you can keep revolving the concept of spirituality but still there is nothing but just a particular type of sensation you feel when you mediate....
rebirth is still not clearly shown to people and there is no application at all.....
in science , we prove theories and show application of theories which uses this theories...
like we first hypothesize what is gravity and what is its value.... upon finding the equation.. we apply this knowledge and calculate how much enegry the rocket needs... the we carry out the experiment and fire the rocket up with the calculated amount of fuel... and the results so that the rocket indeed does travel to outer space out of gravity pull..... this is science with applications...
i dun deny that budhhism , mediation does help in developing a calm and certain desirable character... and some of the other thoeries in buddhism about the ignorance is danger so one must keep learning and unlearning is useful
some of insights of Buddha is true and useful.. some are definitely wrong... -
in fact buddhism himself has said that one must not believe what others say blindly and have to keep searching for truth....
buddhisms acknowledges the common mistakes of wrong understanding and hence emphaszies that one has to keep checking on his knowledge to seeks truth.....
i believe out of all the buddhists in the world , everyone one of them has similar and different beliefs about what they learn from budhhism....
there has to be some budhhist who only focus on certain section of budhhism teachings and do not believe in rebirth.
therefore i am addressing to those buddhist who still believe in rebirth and urging you all to really see why is it wrong.....
it is important to know that one has only one life so that with this correct knwoledge we can plan things correctly because of this right understanding..
if you have the wrong belief that one has life after death, you will plan your life in another entirely different way based on this belief alone.
therefore, one single change in belief will determine how you should live your life.....
if you believe in doing good karma... we may do certain moral things which actually has no real benefits to you but because you believe it in good karma returning, you just do it....
you do things and follow laws not to accumulate what good karma.. you do it because it the right way to do it and has a good benefit to yourself.... -
Originally posted by january:
Despite evidences, you dogmatically refuse to at least be open minded. That is also dogmatism and it is no difference from those that fervently believe in a creator God despite no evidence and proofs. I believe you will be interested to read the Buddhism & Science article.
my belief in death is that one no longer exist forever.
from buddhism belief, their belief is that there is still continuation of life after death for the person which is not true.....what is being moral? the is a very subjective question...
Buddhism never taught that you should help others at the risk of your own lives and interest (unless you are a great bodhisattva with supreme compassion), but help at the best of your ability. Wisdom is necessary. We do not need to be extreme over all these things. Practising generosity, helping others, also lesson our strong attachment to ego which helps in our practise.
when you see a person in trouble and you can easily help him, you will usually do it because it is easy for you. like giving up seats and helping people to pick up things...
but when the help involves is bigger and if it may involve the safety of your own self, then you are more unlikely to help.selfish theory focuses on self, and this is important because it ensures safety to the self. if you think about it, we are usually thinking about ourselves our beliefs and what we are going to do. self centredness is an essential character of self.
Again like I said, selfishness as long as it does not harm others in the process, or at least you try your best not to harm others, is ok. Everyone needs to take responsibilities for their own lives and others. This is basic CME knowledge.
sometimes , people need to cooperate also because of selfish theories... you cooperate and help others because in the end, it will lead to an effect of helping yourself because teamwork create a bigger power than individual...
I don't see anything with cooperation.i therefore dun see how one should be moral..... most people dun do immoral act because there are laws, punishments and social scolding that will occur along with it.....
I believe many have strong moral compass and may not harm others even without laws. But anyway what is your point here?
if nobody is going to scold you and hate, and if all the punishment are removed, then people will do things that were labeled immoral in the past....karma is crap i did not explain it qiute detail.... there is this part where it says that our past lives are linked to present and future life but the point is there are no past lives or future life... a single self only has one life which starts with birth and ends with death....
That is your assumption. 400 years ago everyone thinks the world is flat. If you say it is round, people will laugh their ass off. So how?lastly,.. in science and engineering, theories and experiements often lead to applications and invention of things... and things where everyone can see, and observe
So does Buddhism. Please read before replying
buddhism can talk about rebirth theory but its all talk and there is no concrete thing at all.... you can keep revolving the concept of spirituality but still there is nothing but just a particular type of sensation you feel when you mediate....
It is not just 'a particular type of sensation'. It is evidence.rebirth is still not clearly shown to people and there is no application at all.....
It is shown but people refuse to acknowledge, ignore, or dogmatically cling to their long held beliefs.in science , we prove theories and show application of theories which uses this theories...
There are applications: for example, in Buddhism, we know how to avoid bad rebirths, we even know how to escape the cycle of rebirth.ike we first hypothesize what is gravity and what is its value.... upon finding the equation.. we apply this knowledge and calculate how much enegry the rocket needs... the we carry out the experiment and fire the rocket up with the calculated amount of fuel... and the results so that the rocket indeed does travel to outer space out of gravity pull..... this is science with applications...
Buddhism is just like science - Buddha taught the dharma so systematically - even step by step - that anyone who follows these tested methods will definitely lead to the desired outcome: liberation. Countless others have been liberated before in history and todayi dun deny that budhhism , mediation does help in developing a calm and certain desirable character... and some of the other thoeries in buddhism about the ignorance is danger so one must keep learning and unlearning is useful
Of course people who do relaxation meditation 10 minutes very periodically will find calmness. For one who intensely meditates, one might even find very spectacular things. I for one, has experienced very ecstatic and blissful jhanic states. It is unlike any other bliss I have ever experienced. There are even deeper level of meditative absorptions. These are not even supramundane states, these are mundane states and are not crucial to liberation, which is supramundane. And this is just an aspect of Shamatha, concentration. If one does Insight practise, one will realise the ultimate nature of reality not by knowledge or theory, but by intuitive, direct experience. There are quite a few experienced people in this forum who has indeed experienced, enlightened to, the ultimate nature of reality.
So in short, do your practise, see the results. See for yourself and don't say that 'they are crap' before that. That is being dogmatic.
Dangerous is only your assumption, Buddha tells you it is possible to find out the truth yourself.some of insights of Buddha is true and useful.. some are definitely wrong...
Again these are very shallow assumptions.
I hope you will look deeper into the truth. -
Originally posted by january:
True.
in fact buddhism himself has said that one must not believe what others say blindly and have to keep searching for truth....
buddhisms acknowledges the common mistakes of wrong understanding and hence emphaszies that one has to keep checking on his knowledge to seeks truth.....
i believe out of all the buddhists in the world , everyone one of them has similar and different beliefs about what they learn from budhhism....there has to be some budhhist who only focus on certain section of budhhism teachings and do not believe in rebirth.
At least they keep an open mind until they see for themselves. Because countless others have indeed seen for themselves, it is better that we not make premature assumptions.
If you fervently hold on to the belief that 'rebirth is false' despite evidences and proof, then you are in fact being dogmatic. So if lets say, a scientific experiment is carried out and it proofs that 'XYZ is true', you still do not believe that 'XYZ is true', you do the experiment yourself. But you do not say 'XYZ is not true because I don't like it'.
As a matter of fact the Buddha hopes that everyone does not just believe in what he says. But to truly do the practise, to realise the truths himself first hand. That, the Buddha said, is the right attitude of a true Buddhist.
As I pasted above:...When it comes to things we don't like to believe, they call just one experience, one clear factual undeniable experience, an anomaly. Anomaly is a word in science for disconcerting evidence that we can put in the back of a filing cabinet and not look at again, because it's threatens our worldview. It undermines what we want to believe. It is threatening to our dogma. However, an essential part of the scientific method is that theories have to be abandoned in favour of the evidence, in respect of the facts. The point is that the evidence for a mind independent of the brain is there. But once we admit that evidence, and follow the scientific method, then many cherished theories, what we call 'sacred cows' will have to be abandoned.
When we see something that challenges any theory, in science or in religion, we should not ignore the evidence. We have to change the theory to fit the facts. That is what we do in Buddhism. All the Dhamma of the Buddha, everything that he taught, if it does not fit the experience, then we should not accept it. We should not accept the Buddha's words in contradiction of experience. That is clearly stated in the Kālāma Sutta. (AN III, 65) The Buddha said do not believe because it is written in the books, or even if I say it. Don't just believe because it is tradition, or because it sounds right, or because it's comforting to you. Make sure it fits your experience. The existence of mind, independent of the brain, fits experience. The facts are there.
Sometimes, however, we cannot trust the experts. You cannot trust Ajahn Brahm. You cannot trust the scientific journals. Because people are often biased. Buddhism gives you a scientific method for your practice. Buddhism says, do the experiment and find out for your self if what the Buddha said is true or not. Check out your experience. For example, develop the method to test the truth of past lives, rebirth and reincarnation. Don't just believe it with faith, find out for yourself. The Buddha has given a scientific experiment that you can repeat....therefore i am addressing to those buddhist who still believe in rebirth and urging you all to really see why is it wrong.....
Why?it is important to know that one has only one life so that with this correct knwoledge we can plan things correctly because of this right understanding..
This is a moral assumption that if rebirth is true, then people will have worse quality of life (or something like that). However, truth is truth, whether you like it or not. Also, one can plan things even better with the knowledge of rebirth. He will not be so attached to things and suffer in the process, he will not commit evil acts like crimes knowing he will suffer even in the next life even if he isn't caught by police.if you have the wrong belief that one has life after death, you will plan your life in another entirely different way based on this belief alone.
As above.
therefore, one single change in belief will determine how you should live your life.....if you believe in doing good karma... we may do certain moral things which actually has no real benefits to you but because you believe it in good karma returning, you just do it....
But Buddhists do not even do good things merely for the sake of good karma.
you do things and follow laws not to accumulate what good karma.. you do it because it the right way to do it and has a good benefit to yourself....http://www.jenchen.org.sg/understa.htm
What are merits?
Real merits
Merits are consequences of the non-orignation and non-cessation of the mind. During the Tang Dynasty in ancient China, Emperor Liang Wu-Ti asked the patriarch Bodhidharma, "Venerable One, I have built many monasteries for the well being of the Sangha and I have also performed many virtuous deeds. What merits have I accumulated? Bodhidharma answered, "You have no merits." Why is that so? It is because when Emperor Liang Wu-Ti performed those acts of giving, he was attached to them. Thus, even though he had performed many virtuous deeds, because he had not cultivated the purity of his mind, he did not attain "non-origination and non-cessation". Therefore, his actions can only be considered as cultivation of blessings, not merits. Without liberation there are no merits. On the other hand, when there is liberation, all virtuous deeds will reap merits. -
[edited: double post]