why do people believe in past lives?
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Animals have little opportunity to do good things - they are busy looking after themselves and finding food - the human realm is the best to cultivate blessings. The animals will have to be reborn as an animal until their karma is exhausted. One day they may be able to be reborn as a human again.Originally posted by pwnz0r:Very long hmm.. Due to their karma hmm...
Just wondering, when you say due to their karma, it means that 'negative'? How can a fly perform good deeds to 'turn their karma around'? I mean, as a fly, it probably lacks conciousness and cognitive and probably doesn't even have a belief system. How would you rationalise that?
What about other animals like clams, sea urchins and the like? I mean these are living even without the 5 senses. So what inhabits them, if they have no souls?
Also another thing is even if we are human in this life, it does not mean we did not do any evil deeds before. The karmic seeds in our storehouse consciousness, our karma, is really immeasurable. Throughout aeons we have committed all sorts of things, just that due to certain conditions, the good ones ripen first and in our life we become human, or even have a luxurious life. It does not mean he will not die of cancer, and next life may not live in lower realms. So if we have the opportunity as a human to practise dharma, we should seize it and end the path to lower realms, and ultimately, free ourselves from the cycle of rebirth.
Without 5 senses, there is still 6th sense consciousness - mind consciousness. The yogacarin doctrine adds 7th and 8th consciousness, self-conscious and the storehouse consciousness, which is something that needs to be explained. In short 7th consciousness is consciousness of self, which is an illusion, and 8th consciousness is the storehouse consciousness where all our karmic seeds and memories are planted. Everything we do we will plant a seed in our storehouse consciousness and when conditions are there, the seed ripens into effect. When we sleep, we have all sorts of dreams, sometimes good dreams, sometimes nightmares. It is due to 7th consciousness searching the 8th consciousness for the 'videotapes'. At the time of death, the 8th consciousness karmic seeds manifest and propels us to different realms. If the 7th consciousness (self consciousness, duality consciousness) is dissolved, and one merges with our primordial clear light nature, then rebirth may not take place.
In Buddhism we don't say 'soul inhabit', but rather, they have 6th, 7th, 8th consciousness. -
Something to note, good to some people, may mean evil for some other people.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Animals have little opportunity to do good things - they are busy looking after themselves and finding food - the human realm is the best to cultivate blessings. The animals will have to be reborn as an animal until their karma is exhausted. One day they may be able to be reborn as a human again.
Also another thing is even if we are human in this life, it does not mean we did not do any evil deeds before. The karmic seeds in our storehouse consciousness, our karma, is really immeasurable. Throughout aeons we have committed all sorts of things, just that due to certain conditions, the good ones ripen first and in our life we become human, or even have a luxurious life. It does not mean he will not die of cancer, and next life may not live in lower realms. So if we have the opportunity as a human to practise dharma, we should seize it and end the path to lower realms, and ultimately, free ourselves from the cycle of rebirth.
Without 5 senses, there is still 6th sense consciousness - mind consciousness. The yogacarin doctrine adds 7th and 8th consciousness, self-conscious and the storehouse consciousness, which is something that needs to be explained. In short 7th consciousness is consciousness of self, which is an illusion, and 8th consciousness is the storehouse consciousness where all our karmic seeds and memories are planted. Everything we do we will plant a seed in our storehouse consciousness and when conditions are there, the seed ripens into effect. When we sleep, we have all sorts of dreams, sometimes good dreams, sometimes nightmares. It is due to 7th consciousness searching the 8th consciousness for the 'videotapes'. At the time of death, the 8th consciousness karmic seeds manifest and propels us to different realms. If the 7th consciousness (self consciousness, duality consciousness) is dissolved, and one merges with our primordial clear light nature, then rebirth may not take place.
In Buddhism we don't say 'soul inhabit', but rather, they have 6th, 7th, 8th consciousness.
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Breaking the 5 precepts is not beneficial, and is harmful to all people.Originally posted by NotFromVenus:Something to note, good to some people, may mean evil for some other people.
So to prevent oneself from creating karma to fall into lower realms, we should keep the 5 precepts, practise the 10 virtuous deeds. -
ya ,i agree with Sumone ,please show respect for other ppl faithOriginally posted by january:As a atheist and pro-scient person... it is very clear to me that past life theory is bullsh.t....
some of the explanation and evidence given in some post are....
some people have vivid memory of blar... blar...
some people can recall certain places although they never been there before....blar blar blar....
those mediation experts has .....
all these explanation to me reflects nothing more than poor reasoning skills.
all the evidence are so weak, does not lead to any application and real use in reality, and are base on what we call anedocate evidence...
does not mean that mediators experience a certain transcendent state.. remember vivdly their past lives... means that there is indeed past lives........
seriously evidence is something that is very consistent.
if u want ppl to respect your upbringing (since u are an atheist )
if the science is so purrfect ,how come they still no exact figures of the size of universe ?
how come they cannot gauge the paranormal activity using a ghost meter or something like that
how come science cannot create human beings yet?
how come u are posting here ...instead of creating your science forum
thank you -
Well usually pple who said such things are those whom are free thinkers and study too much western books and is trying very hard to prove that they are superior . i have a colleague doing that n even indirectly insulting guanyin for fun just to prove how " educated " he is in psycology . So lets just give them some " face " lor don't argue with such a " Toad below the well " . cos they can only see limited " views " .
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i havent finished my "how come ?" to your question ,dear january
it only a month ,but my question is 1 billion , i seriously doubt u can answer all of them
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i think u watch to much Lord of the Rings , for goodness sake ,Gandalf is a wizard who save the Middle Earth from the destruction by SauronOriginally posted by january:for those people who claim that they have seen their past lives.....
so what? what is the application then? does that mean that death is not a bad thing because you will always have another life....
if you look at science and nature of knowledge.... it is something that is built upon time over time... theories lead to application leading to more discoveries, more theories, more application and lead to the civilisation of human race....
vehicles today have round wheels is something that the past has discovered like many centuries ago.... all these knwoledges are useful and past down, modifed , improved and lead to more and more application....
computer knowledge integrates with vehicle and leads to smart cars....
this is how science and knowledge does.. they lead to more and more useful things and through intergration of different knowledge, new things are being built.....
cannot you see that a building of a ship requires the cooperation of different knowledges in different people......
therefore, you people who believe can talk all you want about seeing vivdly your past life.. so therefore there is indeed past and future life....
but the question is.. so what are you going to do about it..... is there any real benefits and applications you have come up with... does it lead to more knowledges....
all i can see of religions, god and past lives theories is that it always come up wtih some pseudo reasonings, plus many evidence from some people experiences, and may kinds of stories and finally string them all up with a kind of reasoning which in the end therefore is an unbreakable truth to believers......
this is the reality that there are many believers of god, past lives so i keep thinking how i can help you people to "see the light" and walk out of your shadow of ignorance....
first there are two groups of people. their older generation in the 40-50 and above they have little education and it is extremely difficult to talk to them about proper reasoning.
the younger generation are only a little better than the older generation.. and the lack of studying useful subjects and the spending of most of the time playing and enjoying our lives has made the younger generation not very knowledgeabel about truth...
they are more knowledgeable about things like PS3, Pornograph, how to be a good basketballer, how to get a girlfriend......and where to find good food....watch nice television shows....
i feel like i am gandalf. i need to find back my white stick which will act as a beacon of light to guide people out of the darkness...... and become smarter people with more correct beliefs... only then..... the world will improve faster if its human inhabitants are smarter people
the hobbits is another kind of belief system ... i think u should SERIOUSLY reread Tolkien Books -
Hi to all,
Everything in the Universe is compounded or made up of parts, which are in turn made up of parts, which are in turn made up of smaller and smaller parts. Each of these parts changes constantly - sometimes grossly but mostly subtly (to our senses). There is no single fixed component of anything that is not subject to change. A thing exists only when the parts that constitute it come together. Thus, there is no fixed unchanging self within anything - this is called impersonality. It also means that everything is interconnected and interdependent upon each other. Nothing exists on its own as a separate self.
If a real or permanent self exists, one should be able to identify it. However, one's body changes unceasingly from second to second from birth to death. The Mind changes even much more rapidly. Thus, we cannot say the body, Mind or any particular combination of the two is one's self. Neither can an independent self exist as both the body and Mind depend on many factors to exist. As the so-called self is just a collection of conditioned and changing physical and mental factors, there is no real or concrete element of self in us.
Today science has tell us that nothing is created nor destroyed they just changing from one form to another form.
Take for example a candle flame.The candle is like a body hosting the flame(mind/consciousness))When the candle is fully consumed the flame will gone.So is this to say that the flame is dead ? Gone forever?Well.. as science has tell us that nothing is created nor destroyed they just changing from one form to another form.the flame is not destroyed is just that the elements that make up the flame disintegrate and these molecules will continue in the process of changing form.When encountering a similar condition the flame will be formed again.
Just like oxygen to carbon dioxide and so on and so fornth
just like kinetic energry to potential energry and so on and so fornth(they don't disappear or die off but constantly changing from one form to another form
Our mind/consciousness which are formless elements are neither created nor destroyed -
Hi January,
Just to share what I felt from reading this thread.
Firstly, I think you seems to have something against the belief in past lives. Buddha through His experience and insight, sees that life is a continuum. Life neither start out-of-nowhere nor ends abruptly. Nibbana should be the primary objective of a buddhist, but of course, knowing that Nibbana is not easy to attain, as buddhists, we gradually train and cultivate ourselves, to condition us to achieve this Supreme Bliss. It may take one, two, or even many lifetimes ahead of us to achieve that.
But a journey of a thousand miles begins from your first step (I think it's a nice quote from Lao Tze). So to prepare us for that, Buddha, during His 45 years of propagation had explicitly taught His Teachings. And Buddha's Teachings are very practical, because rather than praying and seeking for external divinity, we seek inwards to the purification of the mind. For our actions and speech originate from our thoughts.
Now you may ask again so how is past lives practical? Well, to the best of my knowledge, Buddha never instruct anyone to be immerse and dwell into their past lives. When Buddha mentioned past lives, usually His own or some others, His objective was to teach the audience the Dhamma. Buddha was a very skillful Teacher. He often used analogies that best suit to His audience.
Buddha taught issues like how to handle one's anger, one's craving and so on. I find that these are very practical issues, in fact, many leading counselling and psychology fields did look into the buddhist scriptures in support of their role in mental modelling.
For Buddha had said that the Past is gone and Future yet to come only the Present is what that matters. Buddha often emphasized that we should 'live in the present moment'.
So my feeling is that you have somehow misunderstood from some of the, perhaps, misinformed buddhists, that made you have such strong case against past lives.
There may have meditators who claimed to see their past lives, which could be true. That simply shows that they have achieve a very profound focus of the mind that they could recollect their past lives. But recollecting one's past lives is not a meditator's objective. I think you could have misunderstood on this part.
January, it's good to know that you do have your own beliefs, in fact that is what Buddha encourages. We should always think more, and not afraid to query further. And I applaude your effort in trying to educate people on this. I just did a check on Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion#Present_day_adherents
It seems like Buddhim's population ranks only 6 in the world. To be effectively spread your ideaologies, perhaps you can consider share your ideas with the former five. I believe if they do convert to your school of thoughts, the quantity would have been much of an aid in your noble thoughts in educate the world and to cultivate smarter people.
Meanwhile, it will be greatly appreciated that you would respect the beliefs of the people, mainly buddhists, in this forum, just as much as we would respect your misinformed and misguided understanding in the Dhamma. -
lolOriginally posted by yamizi:January, it's good to know that you do have your own beliefs, in fact that is what Buddha encourages. We should always think more, and not afraid to query further. And I applaude your effort in trying to educate people on this. I just did a check on Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion#Present_day_adherents
It seems like Buddhim's population ranks only 6 in the world. To be effectively spread your ideaologies, perhaps you can consider share your ideas with the former five. I believe if they do convert to your school of thoughts, the quantity would have been much of an aid in your noble thoughts in educate the world and to cultivate smarter people.. -
i wonder how much i have to explain myself to tell you that past life theory is wrong....
someone says that "how do you explain the wideness of the universe and things that science cannot question"
why do you people keep using these...
SCIENCE NEVER CLAIMS THAT IT CAN ANSWER EVERYTHING......
in fact, science has always been a process of finding new knowledge and applying the knowledge to human benefits......
science cannot answer everything is because there are too many data and theory in the world.... we humans have limited resources and measuring tools, therefore, this is the reason why there are so many knowledge not yet found......
does not mean that those unexplanable exist in the world means that the reasons given by buddhism or other religions are right.......
religions always like to give reasons in terms of some definition, and stories which just remain as what it is -- stories... -
secondly, let me try to refute the karma theory.... pat lives theories...
you say that if one is handicap, or suffering in this life it means that he has acucumulated bad karma in the past.. so one must alwsy do good to accumulate good karma....
does that mean that if your parent has cancer, then you will think "it must be due to bad karma in the past or his past life so he deserve."
since he deserve it, then you must not do anything to help me.
2) if your friend is in trouble, you think" he must have did something bad in his past or his past life so he is in trouble, therefore i must not help him"
3) if we use the karma theory... should not we ask UNICEF to stop helping the poor countries because these poor countries deserve...
is not all this explanation obvious that the karma theory is rubbish. -
becos u are closed to other view , so u will never see y buddhism is so reasonable to youOriginally posted by january:i wonder how much i have to explain myself to tell you that past life theory is wrong....
someone says that "how do you explain the wideness of the universe and things that science cannot question"
why do you people keep using these...
SCIENCE NEVER CLAIMS THAT IT CAN ANSWER EVERYTHING......
in fact, science has always been a process of finding new knowledge and applying the knowledge to human benefits......
science cannot answer everything is because there are too many data and theory in the world.... we humans have limited resources and measuring tools, therefore, this is the reason why there are so many knowledge not yet found......
does not mean that those unexplanable exist in the world means that the reasons given by buddhism or other religions are right.......
religions always like to give reasons in terms of some definition, and stories which just remain as what it is -- stories...
if you could open up your heart and see religion
u will know the answer -
first i would like to draw your attention to this part on helping .We never said such thing and where u hear this kind of distorted views fromOriginally posted by january:secondly, let me try to refute the karma theory.... pat lives theories...
you say that if one is handicap, or suffering in this life it means that he has acucumulated bad karma in the past.. so one must alwsy do good to accumulate good karma....
does that mean that if your parent has cancer, then you will think "it must be due to bad karma in the past or his past life so he deserve."
since he deserve it, then you must not do anything to help me.
2) if your friend is in trouble, you think" he must have did something bad in his past or his past life so he is in trouble, therefore i must not help him"
for your info ,Tzuchi Buddhist Compassion society is the bigest Buddhist disaster relief in the whole world now
member countries is 160 of 183 countries with different races different belief system ,but willing to help the world in disaster relief
I have never heard such idea of Buddhist not stretching a helping hand to others in times of need
I dunno where u get all this unpleasant incident from people who practised wrongly .
Please do not make sweeping statement by only seeing some unpleasant events happening .
This shows that you have not went down to take a look at the world around u
Buddhist also set up kidney dialysis centre , Community Hospital and many nursing care facilities
And how is this "related " to your "not helping spirit "
I seriously see alot of your argument is based on internet reports ,distorted reports and gossip ,so on -
how come all religion say all the same thing...
you must believe in the religion and you will understand it....
all like to say 'open your heart and balr balr balr...'
somehow.. i can see a common link in religions is that they are full of poetry,, emotional and flowery langauge....
to repeat, all religions can come up with explanations of how the universe is form, what is conscious and what happens after death in terms of some reasoning, stories, and explanations....
based on this theories... they will then say that therefore, in order to gain certain thing........ you must therefore behave and do certain things in a certain way.......... then you will achieve blar blar blar .....
can you see the pattern of all these religious attempt to explain death, consciousness and universe things....
at the end of the day.. there is no clear evidence that says that their theories are indeed true.
if there are clear evidence and explanations and reasoning to all your theories..... and it does bring about good benefits... i would volunteer to do it.......
but there is not clear evidence, resaonings, verification process available at all..... how do you expect me , and the rest of us to do what you want.....
cannot you see that there are so many religions with so many explantions and theories in the world.... so whose is right..? -
The point is 1) there is scientific proof and evidence 2) there is experiential evidence and it is intersubjective - meaning there are lots and lots of people who can testify.Originally posted by january:i wonder how much i have to explain myself to tell you that past life theory is wrong....
someone says that "how do you explain the wideness of the universe and things that science cannot question"
why do you people keep using these...
SCIENCE NEVER CLAIMS THAT IT CAN ANSWER EVERYTHING......
in fact, science has always been a process of finding new knowledge and applying the knowledge to human benefits......
science cannot answer everything is because there are too many data and theory in the world.... we humans have limited resources and measuring tools, therefore, this is the reason why there are so many knowledge not yet found......
does not mean that those unexplanable exist in the world means that the reasons given by buddhism or other religions are right.......
religions always like to give reasons in terms of some definition, and stories which just remain as what it is -- stories... -
your comprehension is really very not good... cannot you see how i am arguing the case...Originally posted by bohiruci:first i would like to draw your attention to this part on helping .We never said such thing and where u hear this kind of distorted views from
for your info ,Tzuchi Buddhist Compassion society is the bigest Buddhist disaster relief in the whole world now
member countries is 160 of 183 countries with different races different belief system ,but willing to help the world in disaster relief
I have never heard such idea of Buddhist not stretching a helping hand to others in times of need
I dunno where u get all this unpleasant incident from people who practised wrongly .
Please do not make sweeping statement by only seeing some unpleasant events happening .
This shows that you have not went down to take a look at the world around u
Buddhist also set up kidney dialysis centre , Community Hospital and many nursing care facilities
And how is this "related " to your "not helping spirit "
I seriously see alot of your argument is based on internet reports ,distorted reports and gossip ,so on
i am targetting the past life theory and karma theory of buddhism.. i do know that Buddhism and many religions provide aid and relief and help to unfortuante ...... -
Originally posted by january:
No you must do your best to help him because it may be his good karma to receive your help and you never know.
[b]secondly, let me try to refute the karma theory.... pat lives theories...
you say that if one is handicap, or suffering in this life it means that he has acucumulated bad karma in the past.. so one must alwsy do good to accumulate good karma....
does that mean that if your parent has cancer, then you will think "it must be due to bad karma in the past or his past life so he deserve."
since he deserve it, then you must not do anything to help me.
Also if you are not doing your part to help him, you are wrong, you may even be creating bad karma for yourself. On the other hand if you help, you create good karma.2) if your friend is in trouble, you think" he must have did something bad in his past or his past life so he is in trouble, therefore i must not help him"
This is exactly the same as 1) and I have answered.3) if we use the karma theory... should not we ask UNICEF to stop helping the poor countries because these poor countries deserve...
Again that's the same as 1) and I have answered.is not all this explanation obvious that the karma theory is rubbish.
That is because your understanding of karma is rubbish.
Not Buddhists'. -
so with this new knowledge that they claim... how are we going to make use of this knowledge..... so what are we suppose to do then if they claim that there is past life?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:The point is 1) there is scientific proof and evidence 2) there is experiential evidence and it is intersubjective - meaning there are lots and lots of people who can testify.
do we then follow the buddhism way, or other religion way who also has past life theories... -
No you must do your best to help him because it may be his good karma to receive your help and you never know.
ok let me prove you wrong....
Also if you are not doing your part to help him, you are wrong, you may even be creating bad karma for yourself. On the other hand if you help, you create good karma.
if it is his good karma to receive your help....
then why in the hell do he has to get into trouble in the first place.... -
There are already clinics doing Past Life Healing Therapy..Originally posted by january:so with this new knowledge that they claim... how are we going to make use of this knowledge..... so what are we suppose to do then if they claim that there is past life?
do we then follow the buddhism way, or other religion way who also has past life theories...
eg
http://elevatedtherapy.org.uk/index-page3.html -
nobody wants to get into trouble ,it is past lives , but it is not pre-destinedOriginally posted by january:ok let me prove you wrong....
if it is his good karma to receive your help....
then why in the hell do he has to get into trouble in the first place....
all this can be changed
Buddhism karma is not a fatalistic theory, u can change the course of trouble in this life
I seriously think you should read up on Buddhist concept of Karma before attempting to debate with us
We are not brainwashing you, at the end of the day you are still entitled to your views ,that Buddhism is flawed or watsoever . -
This is a question of how would Buddhism help people. The applications of Buddhism is very wide and can be realised within this lifetime through practising what the Buddha taught. Other religions teach about doing good, avoiding evil, and they usually teach about the possibility of being reborn in heaven, or a better place. In Buddhism we also teach there is this possibility to reborn in a better place due to karma, but in Buddhism rebirth in any better place within the 6 realms of existence is not ultimate. In Buddhism, we teach about liberation from Samsara as well, and it is not just a matter of doing good and avoiding evil, creating good karma.Originally posted by january:so with this new knowledge that they claim... how are we going to make use of this knowledge..... so what are we suppose to do then if they claim that there is past life?
do we then follow the buddhism way, or other religion way who also has past life theories...
You do not even need to see your past lives to experience the bliss of nirvana, to experience freedom from all vexations, all dukkha, and attain purity of mind. In Buddhism, other than doing good and avoiding evil, we emphasize a lot on purification of the mind and mind training, and eventually to attain liberation. This is something that is special in Buddhism -- the chance of liberation. We can experience the fruition of the attainment of sainthood in our lifetime. Therefore I said Buddhist practices' applications are very wide in the present. The three trainings - Morality, Concentration, Insights, each of them have benefits in our lives. If we master them, we can achieve what Buddha and other enlightened beings achieved.
Also in Buddhism it is not just a matter of 'belief', much less is 'Mi2 Xing4' (superstition). It is not just blindly believe in what Buddha said, although we have confidence in the three treasures and the dharma teachings that would lead us to liberation, we also practise and eventually to see the truths ourselves. We must practise and learn from Buddha, not theoretical or academic, we must cultivate what the Buddha cultivate, practise what the Buddha practised. And see the results for ourselves. -
There can be two streams of karma.Originally posted by january:ok let me prove you wrong....
if it is his good karma to receive your help....
then why in the hell do he has to get into trouble in the first place....
Let's say he killed someone and saved your life.
So he will be hit in a car accident, but because he saved your life, you save his life and brought him to a hospital in time.
Karma can work in this way. -
so what?Originally posted by longchen:There are already clinics doing Past Life Healing Therapy..
eg
http://elevatedtherapy.org.uk/index-page3.html
my downstair ah pek and his bird also has the past life theory who could help you advert disaster..
there is also people doing astro and tarot reading everyday who could help you in your life....
you call all these applications.... there is no way to verify all these different types of forecasting activites......