meditating
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Thus, the essential formal insight meditation instructions are: find a place where the distractions are tolerable, pick a stable and sustainable posture, and for a defined period of time notice every single sensation that makes up your reality as best you can.
I can do this but I cannot do breathing meditation. And dharma dan says that this is after you can do breathing meditation. So should I just forget about beathing meditation altogether?
Why is breathing meditation so important anyway? dharma dan says that it doesn't have to be breathing meditation, you can take anything else to focus on. -
Because breathing is ever changing and easiest to follow.Originally posted by Cenarious:I can do this but I cannot do breathing meditation. And dharma dan says that this is after you can do breathing meditation. So should I just forget about beathing meditation altogether?
Why is breathing meditation so important anyway? dharma dan says that it doesn't have to be breathing meditation, you can take anything else to focus on.
It is the meditation that Buddha practised and attain enlightenment, the meditation that Buddha practices most of the time, etc.
It does not make sense that you can notice every single sensation and yet not notice the sensations that makes up your breathing. Like I said zoom into the minutest details of the 'sensation' of the breathing. Do not focus too much, the focus is not on any fixed object (that would be shamatha), but is on the clarity, impermanence (meaning the flowing of the breathing). -
Have you heard of Vipassana Meditation or Insight Meditation.
It focuses on your breathing in, breathing out. observe inhaling and exhaling processes, then later transfer this to insight meditation like, the observance of arising and ceasing, dependent origination and impermanence.
Like when you feel an itch or pain, observe the arising of the itch. if you think of scratching the itch because you can't stand it, you must also think that the itch will not last forever, one day the itch will stop, then you observe how the itch ceases by itself.
Then relate this to impermanence and dependent origination. nothing lasts forever, even the strong and sturdy will be weak when grow old one day.
with this, that arises, without this, that ceases, like law of cause and effect.
when u study smart and hard, you will get flying colours in your exams. -
ah ok i can do it now.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Because breathing is ever changing and easiest to follow.
It is the meditation that Buddha practised and attain enlightenment, the meditation that Buddha practices most of the time, etc.
It does not make sense that you can notice every single sensation and yet not notice the sensations that makes up your breathing. Like I said zoom into the minutest details of the 'sensation' of the breathing. Do not focus too much, the focus is not on any fixed object (that would be shamatha), but is on the clarity, impermanence (meaning the flowing of the breathing). -
Breathing meditation focus on training one-pointedness concentration where one's attention is totally focusing on the breathing. There will be no distraction.
You can concentrate on a flame for example, instead on the breathing.. < i think that what dharma Dan means by u can focus on other thing, rather than on breathing.
mm the venerable; the camp that i had attended had mentioned that we need to train our concentration before going into insight meditation. It helps in our insight meditation. -
How come? You practise wrongly ah?Originally posted by Cenarious:ah ok i can do it now. -
i took breathing as a thing and i suffocate cos i took it as a thing and not sensation. all due to explanations like the kind given by marc.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:How come? You practise wrongly ah? -
.............Originally posted by Cenarious:i took breathing as a thing and i suffocate cos i took it as a thing and not sensation. all due to explanations like the kind given by marc.
I already said similar as that last time what...
I think marc explained quite well. Focusing on clarity and impermanence is the observation of arising and ceasing. -
cos i will take the process to be a thing.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:............. I already said similar as that last time what...
I think marc explained quite well. Focusing on clarity and impermanence is the observation of arising and ceasing. -
I see. 'Thing' is merely a concept. Do not grasp on any concepts and practise mindfulness just as you have 'got it' just now. That is important.Originally posted by Cenarious:cos i will take the process to be a thing.
Thusness said in Metta Lounge:
...When we have an initial taste of our luminous nature, we will want to zoom into the minutest detail of the moment.
Next, 'sensation' is just a word. Do realise that when it is experienced in bare, it is free from all definitions and its imprint and it conveys the luminous-empty naure. The moment subsides instantly as it arises and apart from this, there is no-self to be found anywhere.....
What does luminous mean? Awareness, knowingness, clarity. -
erm breathing meditation -> focusing on the breathing is shamatha? where u will not be distracted by any other thingOriginally posted by An Eternal Now:Because breathing is ever changing and easiest to follow.
It is the meditation that Buddha practised and attain enlightenment, the meditation that Buddha practices most of the time, etc.
It does not make sense that you can notice every single sensation and yet not notice the sensations that makes up your breathing. Like I said zoom into the minutest details of the 'sensation' of the breathing. Do not focus too much, the focus is not on any fixed object (that would be shamatha), but is on the clarity, impermanence (meaning the flowing of the breathing).
While in insight meditation.. u will be mindful of your thought and sensation.. and will not be loss in the thought.. to see things as there are and this is where wisdom will arise.
Am i right here? -
Yes there are many other ways but I find anapanasati is most suitable and easiest for me. It depends on the person.Originally posted by Isis:Breathing meditation focus on training one-pointedness concentration where one's attention is totally focusing on the breathing. There will be no distraction.
You can concentrate on a flame for example, instead on the breathing.. < i think that what dharma Dan means by u can focus on other thing, rather than on breathing.
mm the venerable; the camp that i had attended had mentioned that we need to train our concentration before going into insight meditation. It helps in our insight meditation.
I also find it is two in one in a sense that mindfulness of breathing will train you not to be distracted (yet it is not fully shamatha) and at the same time it also has the element of insight-practise. (but this depends on how you practise anapanasati also) -
Breathing need or need not be shamatha. I have shared with you an article before on that.. let me findOriginally posted by Isis:erm breathing meditation -> focusing on the breathing is shamatha? where u will not be distracted by any other thing
While in insight meditation.. u will be mindful of your thought and sensation.. and will not be loss in the thought.. to see things as there are and this is where wisdom will arise.
Am i right here? -
icic.. thought the usual term for shamatha is also called breathing meditation.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Breathing need or need not be shamatha. I have shared with you an article before on that.. let me find
and oh yea. i have adi bookmark the website bt i don't really understand all that i read.. -
Ok I found it:
http://buddhism.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=223091
Here's an article I find very well explained the topic on Anapanasati:
Samatha or Vipassana?
Anyway I find that anapanasati is a very gd, recommendable practise. If done regularly can gradually lead to insight and awakening. Another good article on aimwell.org, I'll copy a particular part: AnapanasatiVI
MINDFULNESS OF RESPIRATION LEADS TO NIBBANA
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“Monks. If mindfulness of respiration is cultivated and made much of, the four foundations of mindfulness are fulfilled and perfected. If the four foundations of mindfulness are cultivated and made much of, the seven factors of enlightenment (bojjhanga) are fulfilled and perfected. If the seven factors of enlightenment are cultivated and made much of, knowledge (vijja) and liberation (vimutti) are fulfilled and perfected.”
Here, knowledge means the four path knowledges, and liberation means the four fruition knowledges. The essential meaning is that if mindfulness of respiration is practiced diligently for days and months, the work of the four foundations of mindfulness, the seven factors of enlightenment, and of knowledge and liberation are automatically accomplished. The foundations of mindfulness, the factors of enlightenment, and knowledge and liberation comprise the thirty-seven requisites of enlightenment (bodhipakkhiya dhamma) so the development
of the thirty-seven requisites of enlightenment are automatically fulfilled.
This ends the exposition of the introduction to the Anapanasati Sutta. -
what is the four foundation of mindfulness as mentioned in the article?
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wow breathing med is great cos i know im doing it wrong when i suffocate
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Then as to respiration meditation (anapanasati), in the Visuddhimagga it is mentioned as samatha meditation, concentration meditation. In the Mahasatipatthana Sutta it is mentioned as vipassana meditation. Then how can we distinguish it between the vipassana aspect of respiration and the samatha aspect of respiration? If we are mindful of the absolute reality of respiration, that will be vipassana meditation. If we are mindful of the concept regarding respiration, then it will be samatha meditation.
Hope this helps
So the Visuddhimagga mentions the method of concentrating on the touching sensation whenever you breathe in and breathe out. When you concentrate your mind on the coming in and going out of the breath, then it is samatha meditation because you have to concentrate on the coming in and going out, not on the wind or air. When it is coming in you note ‘in’; when it is going out you note, ‘out’. ‘In, out, in, out’. Your mind is not on the breathing air but on the ‘coming-in’ and the ‘going-out’. ‘Coming-in’ and ‘going-out’ are not ultimate realities.
Say you come into the room through the door and go out of the room through the door. We may ask, “What is this coming in and going out?” it is neither you, nor a person. It is just ‘coming-in’ and ‘going-out.’ It is just concept. In the same way, when you concentrate on the coming in and going out of the breath, it is just a concept. Since concept is the object of meditation, it is samatha meditation. You cannot realise any specific characteristics or general characteristics of ‘coming-in’ and ‘going-out’ because they are not realities, just concepts, so that’s samatha meditation.
However, if you focus your mind on the point where the breath touches whenever it comes in or goes out, it touches the nostrils. When you observe this touching sensation and are mindful of it, then it is (ultimate) reality. That touching point is composed of the four primary material elements: pathavī dhatu, hard or soft; apo dhatu, liquidity or cohesion; tejo dhatu, hot or cold; vayo dhatu, movement or vibration. These four elements are there whenever you focus your mind on the touching sensation. So the object is absolute reality. What can we call it — samatha or vipassana meditation? It is vipassana.
That is what the Venerable Mahasi Sayadaw wrote about the distinction between the samatha and vipassana aspects of respiration meditation. I appreciate it very much. So then we can say respiration meditation is vipassana meditation in accordance with the Mahasatipatthana Sutta. We can also say that respiration meditation is samatha in accordance with the Visuddhimagga. It is very subtle and profound to differentiate between these two aspects of respiration meditation, but I think those who have practised meditation very well can differentiate between these two aspects.
More can be found on the URL. -
More info can be found here: http://www.buddhanet.net/imol/mahasati/index.htmOriginally posted by Isis:what is the four foundation of mindfulness as mentioned in the article?
A summary of the 4 foundations:
I. Kayanupassana (Contemplation on the Body)
II. Vedananupassana (Contemplation on Feelings)
III. Cittanupassana (Contemplation on the Mind)
IV. Dhammanupassana (Contemplation on Dhammas) -
Is there any more you do not understand..?Originally posted by Isis:and oh yea. i have adi bookmark the website bt i don't really understand all that i read.. -
ok thanks for clearing for my doubtOriginally posted by An Eternal Now:More info can be found here: http://www.buddhanet.net/imol/mahasati/index.htm
A summary of the 4 foundations:
I. Kayanupassana (Contemplation on the Body)
II. Vedananupassana (Contemplation on Feelings)
III. Cittanupassana (Contemplation on the Mind)
IV. Dhammanupassana (Contemplation on Dhammas) -
ehh there is many more that i do not understand..Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Is there any more you do not understand..?
i will post again when im free.. -
Originally posted by Cenarious:wow breathing med is great cos i know im doing it wrong when i suffocate
But beware you may be doing it wrong too even if you don't suffocate...
Too much focus on the wrong way may lead to your suffocation... too little focus/mindfulness may lead you to stop meditating altogether and lost in wandering thoughts. So be constantly mindful. -
Oic ok thenOriginally posted by Isis:ehh there is many more that i do not understand..
i will post again when im free.. -
Being constantly mindfulness balance and maintain.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
But beware you may be doing it wrong too even if you don't suffocate...
Too much focus on the wrong way may lead to your suffocation... too little focus/mindfulness may lead you to stop meditating altogether and lost in wandering thoughts. So be constantly mindful.
just to share:
no concentration and no effort in placing attention on ur breathing will lead to sleepiness.. usually for beginner.
Too strong concentration and no effort, peace and calm and could fall back to the good feelings where sleepiness will occur. Effort is required to place the attention back to the object. not for beginner.
Too much efforts, mind will be restless.
Too little effort, mind will also be restless.
The objective should be a calm and relaxed state.