Why meditate?
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Do you understand that sometimes you do the greatest evil while trying to do what you think is the greatest good? Is Buddhism teaching for the acquisition of "supernatural powers" and "out of this world experiences?"Originally posted by An Eternal Now:What is the greatest supernatural powers? None other than the miraculous activities of our Buddha Nature. It is the most useful of all - we wouldn't even be here without this 'power' - and probably is all that you need now. -
Hmm.
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Erm I think you completely misunderstand my point. My point is not to seek any supernatural powers, and all are manifestations/miraculous activities of our buddha nature. Please re-read my messages.Originally posted by casino_king:Do you understand that sometimes you do the greatest evil while trying to do what you think is the greatest good? Is Buddhism teaching for the acquisition of "supernatural powers" and "out of this world experiences?" -
That sounds so much like christianity.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Erm I think you completely misunderstand my point. My point is not to seek any supernatural powers, and all are manifestations/miraculous activities of our buddha nature. Please re-read my messages. -
I want to be the omnipotent God.Originally posted by JonLS:Eric,
Quit talking and reading about it and find out for yourself!!!
What do you really want Eric???
And how badly do you want it??? -
In general, Christianity usually teach that man is separate from God, and God creates the world. This is not Buddhism and it is better not to talk about this in a Buddhist forum because it is not compatible.Originally posted by Eric Cartman:That sounds so much like christianity. -
Originally posted by Eric Cartman:I want to be the omnipotent God.
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Venerable Ajahn Brahmavamso - Becoming Enlightened
So there I was, in a foreign land, trying so hard,
giving up so much -and for what?
I wasn't quite sure.
When I was very young I wanted desperately to become a train driver. My grandfather had taken my brother and me to Euston Station in London where I began an infatuation with those massive, black and green steel machines that hissed, with so much strength. Wouldn't it be wonderful, I dreamt, one day...if...
Some years later I wanted desperately to become enlightened. I had read all about it in the books. To a starry-eyed young man, the idea of living in permanent bliss and saving humanity at the same time was irresistibly appealing. Wouldn't it be wonderful, I used to dream, one day. ..if. ..
When I first heard the story of the Lord Buddha's enlightenment, I was still many glasses of beer away from being a monk. I was a student, doing most of those outrageous activities students enjoyed in the late sixties - and regretted in the late seventies. But I had been meditating off and on - mostly the former - for some time, and I had begun to notice some unmistakable changes in my daily life. I was attending the Vesak celebration at the local Buddhist Society and as the Venerable Sri Lankan monk was reading out the Enlightenment Story, I became more and more inspired and excited. I especially relished the bit where the Buddha-to-be sat at the root of the Bodhi Tree and made that earth-shaking resolution:
'Though my blood dries up and my bones turn to dust, I will not move from this spot until I have penetrated to Supreme and Complete Enlightenment!'
Wow! As the story moved on, a thought began to solidify in my mind. I could hardly wait until the end of the chanting. I impatiently gulped down the cup of tea, which was all but obligatory at the occasion, and then I hurried back to my room at college. I had heard enough talks on Buddhism, I had read plenty of books on the subject. I had been meditating for a whole year now, at least once a week - well most weeks anyway. If the Buddha could do it, why not me?
Thus it was that I, in the arrogant stupidity of youth, a novice mediator who could hardly manage to sit still for thirty minutes, decided that it was time to become enlightened. It was now or never, I resolved, for the next day I had an exam. I locked the door of my room. I sat down on my meditation cushion. I collected myself. Then I pronounced in a low, clear, solemn voice:
'Though my blood dries up and my bones turn to dust, I will not move from this very cushion until I, also, become enlightened.'
That was it. No more mucking about. I was dead serious.
Forty minutes later I was in extreme agony. Though my blood appeared as liquid as ever and no disintegration of my bones was discernible yet, my knees were giving me hell! What was really worrying me though, was that over half an hour had gone by and I hadn't seen the anticipated brilliant and flashing lights yet. There hadn't even been a twinkle to suggest that I was getting near. It was very depressing - and very painful. I gave in. I got up very disappointed. Not becoming enlightened had spoiled the whole day.
A few years later and a little more sensible - though only a little - I was at London airport being sent off to Thailand by two Thai bhikkhus. I was going to Bangkok to be ordained. I still remember the parting words of the senior of the bhikkhus, who was my teacher then: 'Please come back when you become enlightened.' I was planning to be a monk in Thailand for two years at most. I had told my relatives and friends that I'd be back within two summers. After all, two whole years as a Buddhist monk in Thailand - surely that is long enough even for those of slow intelligence to become enlightened. As for me, I had a degree from university, so there was no doubt in my mind that I would be back in England within two years, enlightened. Once I had got that out of the way, I planned to get married and go live in a commune - in Wales of course. I had made enquiries before I left.
Two years down the track, it was becoming obvious that this enlightenment business might not be so easy. For some reason, though I was a Westerner with a good degree from a top university, I was acting more stupidly than the Thai monks who had barely finished grade four in village schools. My conceit was taking a fair hammering. The strange thing was that, even though I still wasn't enlightened, I was enjoying the peace, simplicity and morality of monastic life. I didn't want to leave. What I had in mind to do on the commune in Wales had lost its appeal.
In my fourth Rains Retreat I was pulling out all the stops. Word had come to Thailand that Chithurst House had been bought, a Sangha was being established in England and they needed more bhikkhus. This would be a great time to become enlightened. I was in a very quiet monastery. My meditation practice was in high gear. All the omens were favorable. Then it happened! -
(continued)
Walking on my meditation path one evening, my mind already calm from many hours of sitting, I suddenly understood the cause of all problems and my heart immediately felt the joy of release. All around seemed brilliant. Bliss filled my whole being. Energy and clarity were there in abundance. Though it was late at night I sat in meditation perfectly mindful, perfectly still. Then I lay down to rest, sleeping oh-so-lightly for just a few hours. I rose at 3 a. m. and was first in the grass Meeting Hall for the morning meditation. I sat through until dawn as if without effort and without the slightest drowsiness. That was it! It was immeasurable joy being enlightened. Pity it didn't last long.
The monastery where this happened was very poor and the food was very coarse. It was the sort of North-Eastern Thai monastery where you were happy to eat just one meal a day - facing such an ordeal twice in one day being beyond the pale! The morning after my experience of 'release', though, the fare was more reasonable. Along with the staple 'rotten-fish curry', which is actually made from stewing small fish which have been kept most unhygienically until they go 'off, there was a saucepan of pork curry. That day even the Thai abbot visibly reacted at the sight of the reeking fish stew and took a whopping big helping from the pot of pork curry. I didn't mind; I was second in line and there was plenty left for me. However, the pot of pork never reached me. Instead, the abbot poured what was left of the pork curry into the mess of rotten fish stew and stirred it all up saying that it all gets mixed up in the stomach anyway. I was incensed! Of all the hypocrites! he really thought that, then why didn't he mix the curries before he took out his share? I peered angrily into the saucepan he handed me - rotten smelly pieces of rubbery fish swimming alongside my delicious pork- my one lucky meal ruined. Oooh, that abbot, was I mad at him! Was I angry!
Then a thought struck me with a depressing thud, or rather a sickening squelch - maybe I wasn't enlightened at all. Enlightened beings aren't supposed to get angry. Arahants don't care if they eat putrid fish or delicious pork. I had to admit I was angry – therefore I had to own up that I wasn't enlightened. What a letdown. Utterly depressed, I scooped a ladle of rotten fish cum pork into my bowl. I was too disappointed to notice the taste of what I ate that day.
In spite of these spiritual hiccups coming from Dhamma - indigestion (a poor ability to assimilate the Teachings), my following years as a bhikkhu were definitely producing results of more tranquility, clarity and joy. It was the humble insights, the sort that arrive without a fanfare, which were proving the more effective. My wish to become enlightened now appeared suspiciously akin to my childish wish to become a train driver, or to my later ambitions to become the first English astronaut. ..a professional footballer. .: a lead guitarist in a rock band. ..the greatest lover in my college. ..(I am too embarrassed to mention my other aspirations). In a way, wanting to become enlightened was even more foolish. At least I had some idea of what driving a train was about. As for enlightenment, I wasn't quite sure what that was! And whenever I would try to find out by asking one of the senior monks, I would never get a straight answer. So there I was in a very foreign land, eating rotten fish and things much worse, enduring ravenous mosquitoes and unending heat, trying so hard and giving up so much -and for what? I wasn't quite sure. So the only rational thing to do was to give up trying to become enlightened until I knew what enlightenment was! I didn't want to give up being a bhikkhu, I understood that and it made sense. I just had to let go of chasing my fantasies, and my idea of enlightenment was the ultimate fantasy.
On the other side of insight one seldom thinks that one is now wise, for one is overwhelmed by the thought of how stupid one has been. How could I have been so thick? It is written in so many of the Buddhist scriptures, and it is emphasized by so many fine teachers, that BECOMING IS SUFFERING - becoming anything. The Buddha, speaking as plain as ever, thundered that he didn't recommend ANY becoming. Becoming is what the ego does all day. Becoming fashions the identity. Becoming is the 'skin' which holds together the bubble of self. Stop all becoming and the illusion is shattered.
So that was the end of my becoming enlightened. I focused instead on the question of WHO it was who wanted to become enlightened, if there was anyone there at all? I investigated no-self, which is much more illuminating than trying to become enlightened. But still people ask me, as they do of other bhikkhus, the bottom-line question: Are you enlightened? Now I have a splendid answer, which I plagiarize from the late Venerable Ananda Mangala Mahanayakathera (I know he won't mind) who, terrific teacher that he was, gave the perfect reply to this very question:
'No sir!', replied the venerable Sri Lankan Thera, 'I am not enlightened. But I am highly eliminated!' -
Words like "separate" and "create" dont matter, the point is that you can access God now and dont seek other powers because they pale in comparison.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:In general, Christianity usually teach that man is separate from God, and God creates the world. This is not Buddhism and it is better not to talk about this in a Buddhist forum because it is not compatible. -
Bodhi Tree & Bright Mirror (Part 2)Originally posted by paperflower:Do not try to become anything.
Do not make yourself into anything.
Do not be a meditator.
Do not become enlightened.
When you sit, let it be.
What you walk, let it be.
Grasp at nothing.
Resist nothing.
If you haven't wept deeply, you haven't begun to meditate.
- Ajahn ChahOriginally posted by An Eternal Now:My teacher also mentioned another verse by Hui Neng which showcased that all phenomena and even thoughts IS Reality (Shi2 Xiang4), and that if there is no 'doing' involved, no rejecting, nor attachment, meaning no "mi2", is already "wu4". The 'keyphrase' of 'Wu2 Wei2 Fa3' is 'Wu Si Wu Nian' and 'Dang Xia'. 'Wu Si Wu Nian' means no-thought, transcend thought. That means going beyond seeking, grasping. [b]But the key is 'Dang1 Xia4' (the NOW, the Moment), not 'Wu2 Si1 Wu2 Nian4'. If one is not confused/ignorant/attached (mi2), then that is already 'awakened' (wu4). So, don't find another 'awakening' other than this, or else, that will be like riding on a bull finding the bull (you are riding on) elsewhere. So truly there is 'no attainment'.If you feel frustrated that your practice has not been as energized or as clear as you wish it to be, first sit with the fullness of that wish, with the fullness of that frustration, with the fullness of your fears, with the fullness of your hopes, with the fullness of that suffering and compassion, as clearly and bravely as you possibly can until you understand them to their very depths as they actually are. Channel all of this energy into clear, precise, kind and focused living and practice.
Since this whole book is clearly goal-oriented, I thought that it would be appropriate to add a few guidelines about formulating specific goals and working towards mastery that can help reduce the problems that poorly conceived goals can cause. Goals tend to involve a heavy future component. The trick is to add a component that relates to the Here and Now as well.
For instance, one could wish to become enlightened. This is a purely future-oriented goal. One could also wish to understand the true nature of the sensations that make up oneÂ’s world so clearly that one becomes enlightened. This adds a present component and thus makes the whole thing much more reasonable and workable. One could simply wish to deeply understand the true nature of the sensations that make up oneÂ’s world as they arise in that practice session or during that day. This is a very immediate and present-oriented goal, and a very fine one indeed. It is also method-oriented rather than result-oriented. This is the mark of a good goal.
Similarly, one could try to be kind, honest or generous that day, try to appreciate interdependence that day, or try to stay really concentrated on some object for that practice session. These present and method-oriented goals are the foundation upon which great practice is based. Purely future-oriented goals are at best mostly worthless and at worst very dangerous.
Wishing to become enlightened or more enlightened is only helpful if it helps one live in the present as it is. The same goes for training in morality and concentration, as articulated in Part I. A good friend of mine once forgot these basic rules of goal-oriented practice and strived with great energy for months to attain a goal that had nothing to do with the reality that he was experiencing at that time. The results were disastrous and the dark consequences of his error ring on to this day. DonÂ’t get burned by the shadow side of goal-oriented practice. Avoid competition and comparing your practice to others. Stay present-oriented whenever possible, and always avoid purely future-oriented or results-oriented goals! Also, be careful what you ask for. You just might get it but with a price you could never have imagined.
It should be noted that thoughts of the past and future occur now. These sensations are worthy of investigation. “Future mind” is only a problem if the sensations that make it up are not understood as they are. A fun practice to try is consciously thinking thoughts whose content is past- or future-oriented and noticing that they occur now. There is something particularly profound about this that might be missed on first inspection.
While I am on the subject of goal-oriented practice, I should say a few words about how to avoid overdoing it. First, if those around you, particularly those with a lot of experience in meditation and the spiritual life, are telling you that you should chill out a bit, they are probably saying it for good reason. Ask them why they think that and take their opinions into consideration. Now, it is true that sometimes people will tell you to chill out on your practice a bit just because of their own envy of your determination and diligence, but I havenÂ’t found this to be a common occurrence.
~ Dharma Dan, page 101 onwards -
If God is not seperated from creation, then the word 'God' which implies an agent that creates, no longer make a lot of sense.Originally posted by Eric Cartman:Words like "separate" and "create" dont matter, the point is that you can access God now and dont seek other powers because they pale in comparison.
We can talk about God in the mystical sense but sometimes these terms are inadequate to describe our true nature. -
God is not for you to speculate on.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:If God is not seperated from creation, then the word 'God' which implies an agent that creates, no longer make a lot of sense.
We can talk about God in the mystical sense but sometimes these terms are inadequate to describe our true nature. -
Why?Originally posted by Eric Cartman:God is not for you to speculate on.
Anyway meditate and you will find out for yourself that 'God' cannot accurately describe our true nature. -
Because God cannot be comprehended with your human mind.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Why?
Anyway meditate and you will find out for yourself that 'God' cannot accurately describe our true nature.
Just as christianity has its inadequate explanations, buddhism also admits that all words do not describe reality. -
Daily living is completely effortless.quote:
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Originally posted by JonLS:
I say it can't be known with the mind because I have no understanding whatsoever, I am totally clueless.
An example of surrendering to the moment which is ungoing for me is to just allow the present moment to unfold beautifully on it's own. There is absolutely nothing I need do for this to happpen.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------How does this help you in your daily living or is that a separate issue altogether?
And peaceful.
Until it isn't.
Because sometimes life can be very intense. -
quote:
Why are you interested in stories instead of your true nature.
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
quoteriest: The founder of our sect has such remarkable powers that he held a brush in his hand on one bank of the river and wrote the name Amida on a piece of paper on the other bank. Can you do such a thing?
Bankei: Perhaps your fox can perform that trick, but that is not the manner of Zen. My miracle is that when I feel hungry I eat, and when I feel thirsty I drink
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Can you please explain what this story is trying to teach?
Your true nature is right here, right now.
Look!!! -
You are.Originally posted by Eric Cartman:I want to be the omnipotent God. -
Any words that are posted on these boards are not the truth of your being.
What you are is totally beyond words.
What you are is right here and right now.
The best that words can do is point beyond themselves.
They all point to what is.
Right here and right now. -
Nathan Gill just uploaded 2 new articles to his website:Originally posted by Thusness:Yes understanding of pre-conscious momentum is as important as the intuitive experience of no-self. To have a complete picture, this must be understood.
http://www.nathangill.com/pages/readingroom/going-beyond.html
Sounds good...
Going beyond.
So there's an awareness of this room right now, but what about the unmanifest level?
What unmanifest level? Isn't what's appearing enough?
The appearance is merely a pointer to what is beyond Consciousness.
Why do you want to go beyond?
Because that's where all the action is, for creating this manifestation.
This manifestation isn't created - it spontaneously appears.
But ultimately there's nothing more important than what is beyond Consciousness.
When there's exclusive identification with the content of awareness, with the story of 'me' as an imagined entity, there's a tendency for the awareness aspect of Consciousness to be objectified as 'the beyond', a state or realm which once attained will offer oneness, lasting peace.
But in actuality there is no beyond, nothing to be attained 'ultimately'. There's simply this as it is: simple presence. This is already that 'realm'. Consciousness (awareness and the presently appearing content of awareness) is already one or whole, and when the story of 'me' - of identification - is seen as just a play, a movie, then all pursuit of oneness, all pursuit of the beyond or whatever, quite naturally becomes obsolete.http://www.nathangill.com/pages/readingroom/going-beyond.html
Is this similar to what you said about mistaking karmic bondage with spontaneous arising?
The cosmic entertainment.
Are you saying that thought doesn't make a difference, that nothing makes a difference in the sense of cause and effect? Everything just arises?
Everything just arises, including the idea of cause and effect.
But doesn't that idea itself make a difference? Doesn't the idea create an effect at a local level?
Only apparently so, as part of the play or movie of life. In actuality there's no cause and effect. Everything - all of this imagery - arises entirely spontaneously, immediately. Within the movie of life, there is the impression of cause and effect, but in actuality there is no separation, so nothing that can act upon anything else.
So it all just happens to arise and it just looks as though there's relationship?
Yes, the imagery that arises merely suggests separation.
And so somebody who identifies with an 'I' or with a body -
Well, it's not that there's 'someone' who identifies - rather it's more accurately described by saying 'Where identification arises Â…'.
OK, so where identification arises, that is something that nothing can be done about?
Precisely so. If anything changes it does so entirely spontaneously - because there's no one here who can effect any change. Cause and effect, action and reaction, are appearance only, the imagery of the movie of life, the cosmic entertainment. -
All these 2 articles are very well written. He wrote with powerful experience of non-dual Presence. He does not mistake anything as there really is no separation. Just that discernment should not be misunderstood as identification. To discern is not to separate anything.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Is this similar to what you said about mistaking karmic bondage with spontaneous arising?
What is lacking is the 'nature' of spontaneous arising, it is still not understood as 'emptiness nature' is still not experienced. He will be able to rest in the bliss of Presence as he has already seen manifestion is really the source; but he will not be able to penetrate the workings of phenomena like past lives and karma. I would not have said there is a stage 6 if non-dual is the end. -
Oh I see..Originally posted by Thusness:All these 2 articles are very well written. He wrote with powerful experience of non-dual Presence. He does not mistake anything as there really is no separation. Just that discernment should not be misunderstood as identification. To discern is not to separate anything.
What is lacking is the 'nature' of spontaneous arising, it is still not understood as 'emptiness nature' is still not experienced. He will be able to rest in the bliss of Presence as he has already seen manifestion is really the source; but he will not be able to penetrate the workings of phenomena like past lives and karma. I would not have said there is a stage 6 if non-dual is the end. -
I think many people already know that life is a play.
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I truly doubt so... Of course when you are happy and have no problem you can say "life is a play".Originally posted by Eric Cartman:I think many people already know that life is a play.
They can say that "life is a play" but these people are often still attached to a heavy painbody and when problems come they are completely caught up by the stories.
So basically is "just talk". -
....Instead of "watching the thinker," you can also create a gap in the mind stream simply by directing the focus of your attention into the Now. Just become intensely conscious of the present moment. This is a deeply satisfying thing to do. In this way, you draw consciousness away from mind activity and create a gap of no-mind in which you are highly alert and aware but not thinking. This is the essence of meditation. In your everyday life, you can practice this by taking any routine activity that normally is only a means to an end and giving it your fullest attention, so that it becomes an end in itself. For example, every time you walk up and down the stairs in your house or place of work, pay close attention to every step, every movement, even your breathing. Be totally present. Or when you wash your hands, pay attention to all the sense perceptions associated with the activity: the sound and feel of the water, the movement of your hands, the scent of the soap, and so on. Or when you get into your car, after you close the door, pause for a few seconds and observe the flow of your breath. Become aware of a silent but powerful sense of presence. There is one certain 18
criterion by which you can measure your success in this practice: the degree of peace that you feel within.
So the single most vital step on your journey toward enlightenment is this: learn to disidentify from your mind. Every time you create a gap in the stream of mind, the light of your consciousness grows stronger. One day you may catch yourself smiling at the voice in your head, as you would smile at the antics of a child. This means that you no longer take the content of your mind all that seriously, as your sense of self does not depend on it.....
~ The Power of Now, Eckhart Tolle -
That is quite true. Buddhist cultivators are often very very careful in dedication of merits when virtues are done. Dedications of merits from a Buddhist cultivator will always be that the cultivator wanting to practise the Dharma without karmic obstructions or in future lifetimes be born as a human to futher cultivate in Dharma. To be reborn as a deva (GOD) in the realms of the heaven might be blissful BUT once all the merits are spent, usually the devas will be reborn back as humans or worst, into the 3 miserable realms.Originally posted by JonLS:You are.
Our mind are very powerful. High practitioners are often able to taste dhayana bliss which is similar to those in the Gods realms.
Why wouldn't Buddhist cultivators want to be Gods? It is very simple. Just take a look around you in this modern society. People who are enjoying alot do not practise or cultivate. Knowing that life is good, they continued their ways and commiting evil karma is so simple. This applies to the realms of the Gods too.