Arhats / Arahants to come back to Samsara
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According to Mahayana tradition, arahats / arahants will come back to samsara to be Buddha's isn't it.
According to Theravada tradition, arhats / arahants will attain Final Nibbana and thats it. They are liberated from samsara. -
for a while I thought the topic title was : Arhats / Arahants to come back to Sentosa
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well, you can treat sentosa as samsaraOriginally posted by casino_king:for a while I thought the topic title was : Arhats / Arahants to come back to Sentosa -
It's all "Coming back to Stupidity".
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just read that there are actually a thousand arahats who are still dwelling on earth to benefit humanity as ordered by Buddha.
of the most famous is MahaKasyapa (which there's no relic).
Grand Master Xu Yun(Empty Cloud) did a 3 steps 1 bow to seek MahaKasyapa who is still abiding in samathi at Yunan province, Ji Ju Shan(mount). He's to wait for Maitreya to arrive which is 5.67billion years from now.
http://www.greatchinese.com/buddha/buddha027.htm
another i just heard is Pindolabharadvaja:
http://www.greatchinese.com/buddha/buddha038.htm
it's stated that due to His showing off of spiritual powers to people who had not taken precepts, Buddha confined Pindolabharadvaja together with a thousand arahats from entering nirvana, so as to benefit humanity.
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how authentic is your reading? how true is that? did the Buddha said that himself?
(quote within quote error) -
Are you saying that from theravada's perspective, attaining arhatship is the same as attaining final nirvana?Originally posted by marcteng:According to Mahayana tradition, arahats / arahants will come back to samsara to be Buddha's isn't it.
According to Theravada tradition, arhats / arahants will attain Final Nibbana and thats it. They are liberated from samsara.
Buddha sakyamuni was once a arahant also, but he still come back to samsara as bodhisatva to save sentient beings. After practising as bodhisatva for many kalpas, then he attain final nirvana and become buddha. -
Originally posted by marcteng:
or how not true?
how authentic is your reading? how true is that? did the Buddha said that himself?
i guess true or not is all in the dualistic mind.
"The outside phenomena is neither good nor bad. All that's good or bad is generated from your afflicted mind/heart of attachment, dualism and wandering thoughts." -- Grand Master Oyi.
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wait new info:
there are four disciples who stay on after Buddha's mahanirvana. Kundadhana and Rahula are the other two. Taisho Tripitaka Vol. 24, No. 1465 - Shariputra Asked (Buddha) Sutra
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Originally posted by sinweiy:
you got the sutra? post it so that many can read the sutra, tks
wait new info:
there are four disciples who stay on after Buddha's mahanirvana. Kundadhana and Rahula are the other two. [b]Taisho Tripitaka Vol. 24, No. 1465 - Shariputra Asked (Buddha) Sutra
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what is the Theravada's tradtion views on Arhats then?
Do they share the same view of Mahayana's tradition, whereby the arhats will come back to Samsara to attain Final Nirvana? -
Originally posted by marcteng:
i only know the chinese "she4 li4 fu2 wen4 jing1" which we can easily to a search.
you got the sutra? post it so that many can read the sutra, tks
http://sg.search.yahoo.com/search?p=%E8%88%8D%E5%88%A9%E5%BC%97%E5%95%8F%E7%B6%93&y=All+the+Web&ei=UTF-8&fr=FP-tab-web-t&x=wrt
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Originally posted by marcteng:
not sure, i think majority would think that Arahats would have enter nirvana and wouldn't reborn in samsara and minority of them would think they do return.
what is the Theravada's tradtion views on Arhats then?
Do they share the same view of Mahayana's tradition, whereby the arhats will come back to Samsara to attain Final Nirvana?[/b]
part of Mahayana's view also think that they enter nirvana and not return, which might not be the case for all arahats.
so it work both ways.
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According to Mahayana, the arhat still need to practise for quite some time to reach full Buddhahood. As you said Theravada does not share this view because although Pali suttas did speak about attaining Buddhahood by practising as a bodhisattva, the emphasize is on attaining arhatship and little is spoken about the bodhisattva path.
According to Mahayana sutras, I will quote two - Mahaparinirvana Sutra and Lankavatara Sutra which are both spoken by the Buddha,
Mahaparinirvana Sutra:
"O good man! How is one arrived, having not yet arrived? Non-arriving is Great Nirvana. Why is one arrived? Because one eternally cuts away greed, anger and ignorance, and all evil actions of body and mouth; because one does not receive impure things; because one does not perform the four grave offences; because one does not slander the vaipulya sutras; because one does not become an icchantika, and because one does not commit the five deadly sins. For these reasons, we say that one arrives, having not yet arrived. Now, the srotapanna arrvies after 80,000 kalpas, the sakrdagamin arrives after 60,000 kalpas, the anagamin after 40,000 kalpas, and the arhat after 20,000 kalpas, and the pratyekabuddha after 10,000 kalpas. For this reason, we say that one has arrived, while not yet having arrived.
Lankavatara Sutra, Chapter X - Discipleship: Lineage of the Arhats
THEN MAHAMATI ASKED the Blessed One: Pray tell us how many kinds of disciples there are?
The Blessed One replied: There are as many kinds of disciples as there are individuals, but for convenience they may be divided into two groups: disciples of the lineage of the Arhats, and disciples known as Bodhisattvas. Disciples of the lineage of the Arhats may be considered under two aspects: First, according to the number of times they will return to this life of birth-and-death; and second, according to their spiritual progress. Under the first aspect, they may be subdivided into three groups: The "Stream-entered," the "Once-returning," and the "Never-returning."
The Stream-entered are those disciples, who having freed themselves from the attachments to the lower discriminations and who have cleansed themselves from the twofold hindrances and who clearly understand the meaning of the twofold egolessness, yet who still cling to the notions of individuality and generality and to their own egoness. They will advance along the stages to the sixth only to succumb to the entrancing bliss of the Samadhis. They will be reborn seven times, or five times, or three times, before they will be able to pass the sixth stage. The Once-returning are the Arhats, and the Never-returning are the Bodhisattvas who have reached the seventh stage.
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The terms 'stream entered', 'once returning' and 'never returning' are different from the 4 classes of Arhatship we usually hear in Theravada. Stream entered means the initial stages of enlightenment which is from the first to the fifth bhumi, or under arhatship class, anywhere between sotapanna to anagami but before arhatship. "Once returning are arhats" means that the arhat has still has to return to practise until the further stages, and has not attained the non-retrogression of the 7th and 8th bhumi. Arhats have attained the ability to pass into Nirvana, but this nirvana is not the same as that of Buddha and therefore they are considered 'once returning' according to Mahayana:But at the sixth stage all discrimination ceases as they become engrossed in the bliss of the Samadhis wherein they cherish the thought of Nirvana and, as Nirvana is possible at the sixth stage, they pass into their Nirvana, but it is not the Nirvana of the Buddhas.
No returning means the Bodhisattva has reached certain degrees of non-retrogression (7th and 8th bhumi) and will not 'succumb to the entrancing bliss of the Samadhis'.
~ Lankavatara Sutra