The purpose of attaining enlightment?
-
If Buddha can be reincarnated to be human again to subject to "sufferings", then what is the purpose of attaining enlightment?
-
Logically, it seems that it is a practice of stupidity. But then again, the "can be" should be replaced by the word "want to" for a clearer definition.Originally posted by askxyz:If Buddha can be reincarnated to be human again to subject to "sufferings", then what is the purpose of attaining enlightment? -
Call the police right now! Tell them the above broke the religious harmany act!Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:Logically, it seems that it is a practice of stupidity. But then again, the "can be" should be replaced by the word "want to" for a clearer definition.
The person is saying the religion is stupid!
-
why you get so worked up? he will be responsible for his own karma, not you.Originally posted by maggot:Call the police right now! Tell them the above broke the religious harmany act!
The person is saying the religion is stupid! -
The purpose of Enlightenment, is simply to know the truth.Originally posted by askxyz:If Buddha can be reincarnated to be human again to subject to "sufferings", then what is the purpose of attaining enlightment?
It's like when we're in the dark, we have no idea where we are and what's around us. There are a lot of hopes and fears, as we don't really know what's truly happening. Enlightenment is like when we light up a lamp in the dark, and suddenly everything just appears clearly in front of us.
In the Four Noble Truths, it is taught that the cause of dukkha (unsatisfactoriness) are attachment, aversion & ignorance. We call them the 3 poisons, and their basis are self-grasping and self-cherishing. The Buddha, having fully eliminated and uprooted these 3 poisons, no longer have the cause of dukkha.
Even when a Buddha manifests as human being or any other living being, the Buddha does not undergo suffering as do we. This is because the Buddha no longer has self-grasping and self-cherishing.
For example, because me and you still grasp to the concept of "I" and "mine", when someone insults me, I feel upset.
However, a Buddha, having fully understood and realized that "I" do not truly exist as an independent entity, does not grasp to the concepts that "I" am being "insulted" by "you". As such, there is no basis for the suffering of being upset.
It is a bit like.... when we're watching a movie...we get so absorbed that we think the movie is real...so we have a lot of ups and downs....when the movie character dies, we cry as if we ourselves have died.
A Buddha is a bit like... when watching movie, still enjoying the ups and downs... yet at the same time, fully aware that it's just a movie and not truly existing. therefore, even at the "highest" point of the movie, the Buddha is able to stand up and walk away without the slightest attachment.
Another often used example is that of a dream. In a dream, one may be very upset and mourning over the death of one's child. When one wakes up, one realized that it was a dream and that in reality, one doesn't have any children at all. Yet, in the dream, you still remember that you were feeling so sad and depressed.
A Buddha, or a Bodhisattva... is like someone who sees and knows that many of us are dreaming... and they use various skilful means to slowly help us understand that it's a dream, that we do not need to be so caught up and affected by what's happening in the dream, and that we can wake up from the dream.
That's just my understanding. Hope that helps to clarify a bit. But most importantly, please read up some very good Dharma books and attend Dharma teachers by great monks/nuns, as these will provide you with deeper understanding of the Dharma
Some good books include:
by Ven. Dr. K. Sri Dhammananda
by Ven. Thubten Chodron
by Ven. S. Dhammika
by Dr. Peter Santina -
So if anyone happens to behave like what you described, we can say he/she is a reincarnated buddha?Originally posted by _wanderer_:The purpose of Enlightenment, is simply to know the truth.
It's like when we're in the dark, we have no idea where we are and what's around us. There are a lot of hopes and fears, as we don't really know what's truly happening. Enlightenment is like when we light up a lamp in the dark, and suddenly everything just appears clearly in front of us.
In the Four Noble Truths, it is taught that the cause of dukkha (unsatisfactoriness) are attachment, aversion & ignorance. We call them the 3 poisons, and their basis are self-grasping and self-cherishing. The Buddha, having fully eliminated and uprooted these 3 poisons, no longer have the cause of dukkha.
Even when a Buddha manifests as human being or any other living being, the Buddha does not undergo suffering as do we. This is because the Buddha no longer has self-grasping and self-cherishing.
For example, because me and you still grasp to the concept of "I" and "mine", when someone insults me, I feel upset.
However, a Buddha, having fully understood and realized that "I" do not truly exist as an independent entity, does not grasp to the concepts that "I" am being "insulted" by "you". As such, there is no basis for the suffering of being upset.
It is a bit like.... when we're watching a movie...we get so absorbed that we think the movie is real...so we have a lot of ups and downs....when the movie character dies, we cry as if we ourselves have died.
A Buddha is a bit like... when watching movie, still enjoying the ups and downs... yet at the same time, fully aware that it's just a movie and not truly existing. therefore, even at the "highest" point of the movie, the Buddha is able to stand up and walk away without the slightest attachment.
Another often used example is that of a dream. In a dream, one may be very upset and mourning over the death of one's child. When one wakes up, one realized that it was a dream and that in reality, one doesn't have any children at all. Yet, in the dream, you still remember that you were feeling so sad and depressed.
A Buddha, or a Bodhisattva... is like someone who sees and knows that many of us are dreaming... and they use various skilful means to slowly help us understand that it's a dream, that we do not need to be so caught up and affected by what's happening in the dream, and that we can wake up from the dream.
That's just my understanding. Hope that helps to clarify a bit. But most importantly, please read up some very good Dharma books and attend Dharma teachers by great monks/nuns, as these will provide you with deeper understanding of the Dharma
Some good books include:
by Ven. Dr. K. Sri Dhammananda
by Ven. Thubten Chodron
by Ven. S. Dhammika
by Dr. Peter Santina
What if I train a child to behave like this from very very young and it works? -
Originally posted by askxyz:
actually right after Buddha attain Enlightenment under the bodhi tree, there's already no more mental suffering.
If Buddha can be reincarnated to be human again to subject to "sufferings", then what is the purpose of attaining enlightment?[/b]
/\ -
I said the practice of rebirthing back into samsara with all the temptations around you and without your buddhist training.Originally posted by marcteng:why you get so worked up? he will be responsible for his own karma, not you. -
Buddhas and liberated persons (bodhisattvas or arhats) do not reincarnate (actually a more appropriate term is reborn). They do not reborn in the sense that they do not reborn in samsara due to attachment and karma. If they were born in samsara, they are born due to compassionate vows and are not due to the strength and karmic force. This is the difference between ordinary sentient beings and enlightened persons.Originally posted by askxyz:If Buddha can be reincarnated to be human again to subject to "sufferings", then what is the purpose of attaining enlightment?
If a Buddha appear in this world, he will not be attached and does not suffer. Although he may appear to suffer (i.e become sick, etc), inwardly he is free and liberated. -
I just posted this in Question on Buddhism
Check out Wanderer's reply too (in that topic). When Buddhist say enlightened ones overcome suffering, it has to do with overcoming the illusion of duality.
There are three kinds of sufferings:First, there is the form of suffering that the Buddha is most famous for talking about, ordinary suffering, the standard list including such things as birth, sickness, old age, death, lamentation, pain, grief and despair. These are ordinary forms of suffering that we can try to mitigate as best we can by ordinary methods, i.e. by working within the scope of the first training, i.e. the conventional world. I am a big fan of trying to find worldly happiness so long as we do not neglect the importance of the other two trainings. There is also the form of suffering relating to the scope of the second training that comes from being limited to our ordinary state of consciousness, with our only way out coming from sleep or the use of chemical substances. We yearn for bliss that is not so bound up in things like whether or not we get a good job, for experiences like those found in the concentration states. Our minds have this potential, and the failure to be able to access these states at times when doing so would be helpful and healthy is a source of bondage. I am a big fan of being able to attain these wonderful states so long as we do not neglect the other two trainings.
There is also the kind of suffering that comes from making artificial dualities out of non-dual sensations, and all of the unnecessary reactivity, misperceptions, distortions of perspective and proportion, and basic blindfulness that accompanies that process. This kind of suffering, relating to the scope of training in wisdom, is not touched by the first two trainings, and thus forms a background level of suffering in our life and also increases the potential for further suffering in the other two scopes. This form of suffering is gradually relieved by the stages of enlightenment, as fewer and fewer aspects of reality have the capacity to trick the mind in this way. I am a big fan of awakening and thus eliminating this pervasive form of suffering, just as long as we do not also neglect the other two trainings.
The suffering of the ordinary world can be extremely unpredictable, and working to relieve it is a very complex business, the work of a lifetime and perhaps an eternity. The suffering related to being unable to access refined altered states of consciousness is mitigated by simply taking the time to learn the skills necessary and then refining them until they are accessable to us when we wish. There are limits to these states, and so the basic states attainable by training in concentration can be very thoroughly mastered within a lifetime and even within a few years or perhaps months for those with talent and diligence. The stages of enlightenment are permanent, and once they are attained, that aspect of our suffering is forever eliminated and never arises again. This can be accomplished by those who take the time to learn the skills necessary to see individual sensations clearly and are willing to work on that level.
These basic facts can be used to help us plan our quest for happiness and the elimination of the various forms of suffering in our life. We can direct our studies, our training, and work on specific skills that lead to specific effects and abilities in the order we choose, within the limits of our life circumstances and the resources available to us. For instance, it might make sense to learn concentration skills early in our life, as they cultivate so many of the skills necessary for the other two trainings and can provide increased sense of ease and wellbeing. For example, rather than popping a cold beer at the end of a hard day, we could bathe our body and mind in as much bliss and peace as we can stand for as long as we wish. If we master concentration practices, we have the option to make such choices.
It might also make sense to work on insight practices early rather than later so as to reduce the amount of time during our life that we live with the fundamental suffering caused by the illusion of duality. There is only so much we can do to prevent ordinary suffering for ourselves and others, though it is always good to do what we can. Thus, it is also good to realize that we can also reduce and eliminate the other forms of suffering through learning the two basic styles of meditation more easily than we can eliminate much of our conventional suffering.We might conceive of this as compassion having gotten caught in a loop, the loop of the illusion of duality. This is sort of like a dog’s tail chasing itself. Pain and pleasure, suffering and satisfaction always seem to be “over there.” Thus, when pleasant sensations arise, there is a constant, compassionate, deluded attempt to get over there to the other side of the imagined split. This is fundamental attraction. You would think that we would just stop imagining there is a split, but somehow that is not what happens. We keep perpetuating the sense of a split even as we try to bridge it, and so we suffer. When unpleasant sensations arise, there is an attempt to get away from over there, to widen the imagined split. This will never work, because it doesn’t actually exist, but the way we hold our minds as we try to get away from that side is painful. When boring or unpleasant sensations arise, there is the attempt to tune out all together and forget the whole thing, to try to pretend that the sensations on the other side of the split are not there. This is fundamental ignorance and it perpetuates the process, as it is by ignoring aspects of our sensate reality that the illusion of a split is created in the first place.
- Dharma Dan -
for the first time in human history, there is a teaching or dhamma preached by the Buddha there is a way to end our very existences. where other religion actually say liberation thru oneself? In god religions, you have to accept god to go to his kingdom. Is there a possibility to be god or god equals? absolutely no way. you are god's creation, if you die, thats god will, if you are born stupid, thats god creation, you just have to accept it. for animals, its even worse, animals are created specially for humans to savour. no redemption for animals.Originally posted by askxyz:If Buddha can be reincarnated to be human again to subject to "sufferings", then what is the purpose of attaining enlightment?
But in Buddhism, all is not lost, animals can be humans one day and vice versa.
Anyone can be a Buddha if you strive for Buddhahood, but you have to practise your perfections until you are perfect and ready to be a Buddha.
A Buddha's sole mission is to spread his teachings so that humans and devas (heavenly beings) in the past, present and future can benefit from it and strive for enlightenment and attain Nibbana. Only humans are capable of attaining enlightenment as our world has both sadness and happiness, even a Buddha has to be a human being. You dun hear a deva (heavenly being) can be a Buddha dun u.
I think the threadstarter does not understand or grasps the meaning of enlightenment, otherwise he wouldnt have asked it. Once attain enlightenment, this is your last rebirth, ie no more birth, old age, sickness and worry will afflict you. -
Depends if you are looking at Himayana or Thervadic philosophy in Buddhism. On attaining enlightenment, there may be no more further rebirths for you or you may have to be reborn till all sentient beings gain enlightenment from your aid.Originally posted by marcteng:I think the threadstarter does not understand or grasps the meaning of enlightenment, otherwise he wouldnt have asked it. Once attain enlightenment, this is your last rebirth, ie no more birth, old age, sickness and worry will afflict you.