by cenarious:what he described for the jhanas is so brief! i think i got the 3rd jhana according to dharma dan but when i look at buddha's description and my friend's description i realised that i am far from even the first jhana or even nimita! and he calls himself an arhat?! [/quote]
Dharma dan, other than being enlightened, truly experienced all the 8 Jhanas - form and formless. He only wrote the crucial points about the jhanas in his book, and did not elaborate on his experiences. If he want to elaborate more on the topic on jhana, I believe he can write an entire book.
Please read the Foreword and Warning in his book:
I have tried to include enough information to make this book capable of standing on its own as a manual of meditation and for walking the spiritual path. However, I have also tried to focus on those areas that I consider to be my core competencies and also those areas of the spiritual path that I do not feel have been adequately covered in the works that have come before this one. This book shines in areas of technique and the fine points of very high-level practice. However, the spiritual life is vast beyond measure and cannot possibly be adequately covered in a single book. Thus, I will often refer you to other excellent sources for more details on those topics that I feel have already been covered quite well by other authors. I strongly suggest checking out at least some if not all of these other sources.
He did refer people who are interested on the topic on jhanas to refer to other sources. His book puts on emphasize on Insight rather than Samatha, although he did dedicate certain portions to discussing Shamatha.
Secondly, Shamatha jhanas are not sufficient for enlightenment as mentioned by Longchen. It is a way to develope concentration but it does not lead to insights. It can lead to supernatural powers but many people may get obsessed with them and even practise a demonic and deviant way without the guidance of a qualified teacher. Master Shen Kai warned that there are people who looked like he is practising jhanas, but after the 2nd jhana that person practised deviantly, thinks that he has supernatural powers, etc etc... without knowing that he has practised deviantly.
We all heard that Zen is a translation from the word 'Dhyana' (sanskrit) which is 'Jhana' (pali). This has also caused some confusions in terms of terminologies.
One of the factors that actually adds to the confusion is that the concentration state terminology (jhanas) is used in the original texts to describe both the progressively more sophisticated concentration states and also the progress of insight, with little delineation of which was which. ~ Dharma Dan
Actually there is also some problems with the translations. Why is Zen called Jhana when it has little to do with the 8 jhanas? Dharma Dan spoke of Vipassana Jhanas/Insight Jhanas, Zen and 'Chan2 Ding4' is refering to that -- the realisation of our true nature and abiding in that true nature of reality. Of course, this is speaking in general and I am not talking about the stages of Vipassana Jhanas now (that will be another topic).
In 'Shen Kai Dao Shi Kai Shi Lu (1)', the first discourse after transmission of 'da zhi mu fa' to his monastic community (that is long prior to teacher chen's transmission of an even more direct 'fa wang fa'), he described all the 8 jhanas including the 9th jhana which is Nirodha Samapatti (Nirvana of the cessation of perception and feelings) whereby even bodily and mental formations ceases. He too taught that it is not necessary to go through the 8 stages of samatha jhanas, and he also gave a better definition of 'chan2 ding4' (right click on the picture, and click View Image/Show Picture to show the picture in full):
Related:
http://buddhism.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=218625&page=2Originally posted by longchen:
Dunno about the quantum physics part
But if you can get to the point of an initial total bare mind...that is... no sensory perception and no thoughts...you will experience that the sense of being at a location (here-ness) is no more....
You will experience the amazing experience of infinity and all pervading-ness. that is being everywhere at the same time. And when you come back to your senses... you will say 'wow!'. The truth is so different from the everyday consciousness....
No point thinking too much.... it doesn't help. Get a first hand experience.
So we have to cut off all incessant, obsessive and dualistic thinking otherwise we cannot attain 'zheng4 ding4'. This is 'Chan2', 'Dhyana', 'Jhana'. 'Ding4' is to fix the mind on the true nature of Tathata.
[quote]Good Friends, what is that should be 'No'? What is that should be 'Thought'? 'No' means to have no dualistic and all defiling conceptions. 'Thought' means to fix our mind on the true nature of Tathata, for Tathata is the quintessence of thought, and thought is the result of the activity of Tathata. It is the positive essence of Tathata - not the sense organs - which gives rise to 'thought'. Tathata bears its own attribute, and therefore it can give rise to 'thought'. Without Tathata the sense organs and the sense objects would perish immediately.
Good Friends, because it is the attribute of Tathata which gives rise to 'thought', our sense organs - in spite of their functioning in seeing, hearing, touching, knowing, etc. - need not be tainted or defiled in all circumstances, and our true nature may be 'self-manifested' all the time. Therefore the Sutra says, "Even all Dharmas can be easily distinguished, the 'First Principle' is still immovable"
- The Platform Sutra, 6th Zen Patriarch Hui NengAnd so the difference between Samatha Jhana and Zen/Vipassana is that Samatha Jhana is the mind absorbed in a particular object which the mind solidifies it with a concept, thus strengthening the powers of concentration and possibly leading to the development of supernatural powers, but does not develope insights since this form of concentration has little to do with penetrating the ultimate reality. Unless he turns towards investigating the reality of the Jhana state, which is another topic.
Samatha absorption also never goes beyond the thoughts and concept of the object, and the higher the samatha jhana stage, the subtler the concept but nevertheless some form of dualistic mental consciousness is still there.
Whereas, the latter has to do with insights leading to enlightenment, realising our true nature, ultimate reality, which is beyond all fabrication of concepts and thoughts.
If there is anything wrong with what I said please correct me.
