What is suffering and what is your suffering?
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Does anybody here recognise your own sufferings?
Cherrio -
whoa.. many.. how to list..
for example the three poisions..
sometime it comes and goes.. at a different stage in life..
bt it is important to know ur enemies..
and also important to establish the right view..
just my 2 cents of opinions
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Life is a suffering...Originally posted by oldkid:Does anybody here recognise your own sufferings?
Cherrio -
suffering?
it is physically, mentally and also sometimes in subtle way like xing-bing, mind game, etc, etc. although suffering is there in reality, it manifests when there is an association with a self or a sense of self.
it's not about pretending that there is no suffering but it is not to take it personally as only one's own. because of selfishness and the separation from others, suffering becomes an identity with all types of characters developed such as greed, hatred, vengence, stupity, vanity, jealousy, miser, ignorance and so on...
when people come across the term suffering, they get very attached to the idea of pain, misery, loss, disaster, sorrow and mostly got to do with heavy dark gloomy things and they also don't really see the sufferings in the good stuff as well until things happen in changes that go against their expectation.
attachment is source of sufferings.
i also have sufferings which i don't deny or ignore. -
I recently have the insight that the very thing that brings a person enjoyment also brings suffering. This suffering arises once that thing/person no longer exist. There will be a craving for the thing/person to be around so that feeling of temporal joy could be felt again. That very craving I find to be a real pain in the neck.
Or it could be something I wanted to have alot. After alot of hard work and getting it, the craving stops temporary but then there is another thing I craved for, which I will have to go through the cycle of working hard and getting it again. It seemed so mundane.
It is quite true that suffering does not means screaming in agony due to physical pain. An average person with good health, good family, good friends, good career and good spouse suffers too. It just depends if their sufferings are recognised.
Cherrio -
All of us do undergo suffering regularly... it is inescapable as long as we have not freed ourselves from the cycles of samsara. And yes, even pleasures and so on are dukkha.. because of the fact that they are impermanent.
If we are aware... we will know that even in one day we will experience so much unsatisfactoriness, frustrations, or fear, grief, etc... we should practise mindfulness and be constantly aware of our psychological process.. we will find that our minds are so often stuck in dukkha. As we become more aware, the ability of the mind to detach from them will become easier. We will recognise suffering as it is... not try to reject it, nor just continue creating more sufferings.
Here's a very good article, The Concept of Dukkha
Excerpt:What we have to do in this stage is, may I repeat again, to recognise that there is Dukkha. Dukkha is there but it needs recognition. It requires an acknowledgment. This is a starting point. From this, we can go on. The Lord Buddha spoke in a very clear and precise way. Dukkha must be understood, it must be penetrated (parinnyeya ).
The eight distresses of humanity:
To understand it we must first be aware of the facts on which our daily life is based. This awareness is called mindfulness or Sati. With mindfulness, your mind will become contemplative, receptive, and not impulsive, not rejecting. Then investigate the real nature of that fact. This is called investigation of nature=Dhamma vicaya. Both form factors of enlightenment ( Bojjhanga ). The remedy in Buddhism is the Noble Eightfold Path. Each of us has to walk on the Path on our own to get to our destination.(Paccattam veditabbo=the truth is understood individually , one of the six characteristics of the Buddha's teaching.)http://www.jenchen.org.sg/vol4no1a.htm
The Eight Distresses
1 The Distress of Birth
Life begins in the womb of the mother. While in the womb, the foetus is surrounded by darkness and its movement is restricted. The pregnant mother-to-be, besides having to cope with hormonal changes, will also experience increasing difficulty in mobility from an enlarging belly, nausea and other discomfort, and
sometimes poor appetite. These sufferings culminate in the pain that the mother has to endure in the birth process. The foetus, for its part, has to leave the cosy and warm confine of its motherÂ’s stomach, and encounter an unaccustomed rush of cold air into its lungs. The cry of the new-born baby attests to its protest of its uncomfortable introduction to the world, and is the beginning of its journey to the many sufferings in this life.
2 The Distress of the Five Skandhas
The Five Skandhas referred to in Buddhist literature relate to the five aggregates or components of an intelligent being, viz. rupa, a physical form relating to the five sensory organs (eyes, nose, ear, tongue, and body); vedana, the functioning of the mind relating to feelings; sanjna, the functioning of the mind relating to distinguishing or discerning; samskara, the functioning of the mind with regards to decision or volition; and vijnana, the mental faculty in regard to cognition and consciousness. These aggregates of form, feeling, perception, volition and consciousness are usually latent, but once ignited, cause a mixture of agony and misery, creating disillusionment with life.
3 The Distress of Attachment
Human beings tend to develop strong attachments to their loved ones, as well as to things material. When we lose any of these, we often grieve, worry or become depressed.
4 The Distress of Hate or Anger
Feelings of anger or hate commonly occur in our interpersonal relations. These could arise out of pride, prejudice or envy. Any encounter with the people towards whom our anger or hate is directed invariably brings distress, agony and misery.
5 The Distress of Unfulfilled Desires
Many agree that it is human nature to ceaselessly crave for more. This craving or greed, however, causes frustration and sufferings when our cravings are not met or our desires unfulfilled. Especially, if we carry our greed to an unlawful extent, and when caught, have to experience mental as well as physical punishment.
6 The Distress of Illness
Chinese medical science categorises human bodily functions into four elements - earth, water, fire and wind. Muscles, bones, skin, flesh, organs, arteries and veins, fingernails and hair form the earth element. Blood, urine, sweat, tears and other body fluids are the water element. Body temperature and energy are the fire element. The movement of air through our breath constitutes the wind element. If these elements are not in equilibrium, illness results.
7 The Distress of Ageing
As we approach old age, our health generally deteriorates. Weak limbs, grey hairs, failing eyesight, loose teeth and dimming memory are some of the common problems associated with old age. A sense of helplessness and hopelessness frequently creeps in, and the old and infirm tend to worry and fret.
8 The Distress of Death
All human beings will eventually face death, for it is certain. It is a matter of timing. Human beings are afraid of death because of strong attachment to worldly things; a desire for continued existence; and ignorance of the essence of life or living. Death then comes with a lot of mental suffering. If one has lived a life filled with greed or hate, the negative karma thus accumulated will lead to extreme suffering on oneÂ’s deathbed.
In short, life is suffering. From birth to death, we are constantly submerged in the sea of suffering. Only when we have realised the nature of suffering and resolve to free ourselves by cultivating our inner sentient being according to BuddhaÂ’s compassionate teachings will we be able to attain peace, dignity and freedom in our transient life. -
sufferings i recognised were when someone took away my precious things without concerning how i felt. i noticed my anger was developed and hatred started to grow. another type of suffering which i saw was when people love to play "games" and take you for a ride for their own gains which always happens alot in the corporate world. if i don't maintain my calmness, steadiness, awareness & perseverance, i know i would be drowned in those sufferings or meaninglessly fighting back never-ending with that sense of self that spells ego is being hurt. from the moment a being is born, suffering begins right up to the edge of death and this cycle is tiring indeed. i'm grateful for the lessons if not i would also never know there's non-suffering possible as well.
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All of us do undergo suffering regularly...
In order to make this statement, you have to accept all of the other interpretations that are made unconsciously by the body/mind organism.
If the interpretations are seen for what they are, can there still be identification with one of these interpretations?
What I'm really trying to say is that if I don't cling to any concepts whatsoever, how can the concept of "suffering" survive on it's own? How can it be real when the rest is not?
"I" will never arrive at this point of freedom.
But I don't have to.
Because liberation is already the case. -
Wah... abit chim. So, you are saying that how can a person suffers if he or she don't know or don't have the concept of suffering? Please correct me if I am wrong. Thanks.Originally posted by JonLS:In order to make this statement, you have to accept all of the other interpretations that are made unconsciously by the body/mind organism.
If the interpretations are seen for what they are, can there still be identification with one of these interpretations?
What I'm really trying to say is that if I don't cling to any concepts whatsoever, how can the concept of "suffering" survive on it's own? How can it be real when the rest is not?
"I" will never arrive at this point of freedom.
But I don't have to.
Because liberation is already the case.
Cherrio -
Yah, very very true. I undergo the same sufferings as you. But different from you, I exploded. hahaOriginally posted by paperflower:sufferings i recognised were when someone took away my precious things without concerning how i felt. i noticed my anger was developed and hatred started to grow. another type of suffering which i saw was when people love to play "games" and take you for a ride for their own gains which always happens alot in the corporate world. if i don't maintain my calmness, steadiness, awareness & perseverance, i know i would be drowned in those sufferings or meaninglessly fighting back never-ending with that sense of self that spells ego is being hurt. from the moment a being is born, suffering begins right up to the edge of death and this cycle is tiring indeed. i'm grateful for the lessons if not i would also never know there's non-suffering possible as well.
Its really unpleasant but it was really really an eye-opener. I am undergoing it again (I must have committed tons of evil karma) but this time, I am watching myself very closely. Watching the anger arise and feeling it and letting it disappear. Sometimes still explode but less in intensity. hehehe
Cherrio -
ok i see...Originally posted by oldkid:Yah, very very true. I undergo the same sufferings as you. But different from you, I exploded. haha Its really unpleasant but it was really really an eye-opener. I am undergoing it again (I must have committed tons of evil karma) but this time, I am watching myself very closely. Watching the anger arise and feeling it and letting it disappear. Sometimes still explode but less in intensity. hehehe
Cherrio
its pretty normal. who never throw temper before. when i was young my temper was like a bull's hehee... now still have temper i don't deny especially impatient to people who are "stupid" or stubborn... yeah i know i'm bad, well the wave still occasionally rise and fall. i feel that it is suffering because the atmosphere is not only uncomfortable for oneself, others involved are also affected together. i learn to be more silent and instead of letting off my temper or agitation, i let it go by observing how it arises and fades away in a few seconds or minutes and at the same time i move around the situation and look for other chance that has an opening to make things better instead of causing harm to one another. if not stay calm, lower down and wait for the weather to pass. calmness develops patience. well, anything exits which we don't ignore or pretend not there but it is attachment that brings out the suffering and the more attached the more habitual it becomes until unconsciously part of you. -
I knew you were that kind of person.Originally posted by paperflower:ok i see...
its pretty normal. who never throw temper before. when i was young my temper was like a bull's hehee... now still have temper i don't deny especially impatient to people who are "stupid" or stubborn... yeah i know i'm bad, well the wave still occasionally rise and fall. i feel that it is suffering because the atmosphere is not only uncomfortable for oneself, others involved are also affected together. i learn to be more silent and instead of letting off my temper or agitation, i let it go by observing how it arises and fades away in a few seconds or minutes and at the same time i move around the situation and look for other chance that has an opening to make things better instead of causing harm to one another. if not stay calm, lower down and wait for the weather to pass. calmness develops patience. well, anything exits which we don't ignore or pretend not there but it is attachment that brings out the suffering and the more attached the more habitual it becomes until unconsciously part of you. -
really? wow amazing.Originally posted by Eric Cartman:I knew you were that kind of person.
i also knew you would quote what i said.
like a sly snake waiting for its prey... -
I thought the all sufferings rooted to one source, which is personal attachment. We are all attached to everything we have, our relationship, our body, our wealth, even our thoughts. If you analyse all your negative emotions, most of it is due to the fact that you are attached to something. We have already blurred the boundary between our needs and our wants, and some of the wants, have become something we thought we can't live without. Once I've heard a story about an abbott. He was suffering from some terminal disease, and he was constantly moaning that he's in pain. When his disciple asked him why is he in pain if he has already got no form of attachments? The abbott replied that though he's in pain, he is not suffering.Originally posted by paperflower:ok i see...
its pretty normal. who never throw temper before. when i was young my temper was like a bull's hehee... now still have temper i don't deny especially impatient to people who are "stupid" or stubborn... yeah i know i'm bad, well the wave still occasionally rise and fall. i feel that it is suffering because the atmosphere is not only uncomfortable for oneself, others involved are also affected together. i learn to be more silent and instead of letting off my temper or agitation, i let it go by observing how it arises and fades away in a few seconds or minutes and at the same time i move around the situation and look for other chance that has an opening to make things better instead of causing harm to one another. if not stay calm, lower down and wait for the weather to pass. calmness develops patience. well, anything exits which we don't ignore or pretend not there but it is attachment that brings out the suffering and the more attached the more habitual it becomes until unconsciously part of you.
Of course, I know the idea of suffering is alot deeper than what i've derived, but just my thoughts as a beginner. -
i see.Originally posted by path_seeker:I thought the all sufferings rooted to one source, which is personal attachment. We are all attached to everything we have, our relationship, our body, our wealth, even our thoughts. If you analyse all your negative emotions, most of it is due to the fact that you are attached to something. We have already blurred the boundary between our needs and our wants, and some of the wants, have become something we thought we can't live without. Once I've heard a story about an abbott. He was suffering from some terminal disease, and he was constantly moaning that he's in pain. When his disciple asked him why is he in pain if he has already got no form of attachments? The abbott replied that though he's in pain, he is not suffering.
Of course, I know the idea of suffering is alot deeper than what i've derived, but just my thoughts as a beginner.
then what is the something that we are attached to? self? attached to the concept of non-attachment? attached to a set of technical thoughts?
i do need guidance as i'm still a newbie in buddhism than most of you and i do always still think till today about what is suffering, why am i trapped in this body, this meat & veins that can feel, this mind that can have so much thoughts and who & what am i... i describe suffering like spending one thousand years in a single night... -
I think the biggest attachment we have is relationship. Sometimes, we will harm other sentient beings for our families. An example, if your children or parents love to eat crabs, you will buy the live crabs, slaughter it and cook it for them. But many a times, we forgot that these living things that we've killed, have feelings too. For some animals, like pigs, the sow is very protective of the piglets, but chinese loves to use the piglets for roast pigs, for those people who bought them for their families.Originally posted by paperflower:i see.
then what is the something that we are attached to? self? attached to the concept of non-attachment? attached to a set of technical thoughts?
i do need guidance as i'm still a newbie in buddhism than most of you and i do always still think till today about what is suffering, why am i trapped in this body, this meat & veins that can feel, this mind that can have so much thoughts and who & what am i... i describe suffering like spending one thousand years in a single night...
Another attachment that you've mentioned is to a set of technical thoughts, I would assume that you are refering to a methodology that you wish others to follow. Sometimes in a team at work, when someone proposed an idea, he/she will wishes their ideas to be accepted and will argue all the way to make things work their way. If their ideas were rejected eventually, they will not be happy.
As for non-attachment, I'm not exactly well verse as like you, I have loads of attachments. I'm still working hard to alleviate suffering, but one teacher did told me that the best way to alleviate suffering is to cultivate boddhicitta, and really feel for all sentient beings. Easy to put in words, but never easy to put in practise. -
The story of that abbot is very similar to my late guru. When he gave discourses to students on the LAMRIM, he could hardly breath properly and is always wheelchair bound. But whenever there are students visiting him, he will never hesitate to get up from his bed and sit on his wheelchair with the help of his attendants. He is suffering physically, but when the moment he see his students, his eyes are beaming as bright as the sun. He's suffering physically but he's happy.Originally posted by path_seeker:I thought the all sufferings rooted to one source, which is personal attachment. We are all attached to everything we have, our relationship, our body, our wealth, even our thoughts. If you analyse all your negative emotions, most of it is due to the fact that you are attached to something. We have already blurred the boundary between our needs and our wants, and some of the wants, have become something we thought we can't live without. Once I've heard a story about an abbott. He was suffering from some terminal disease, and he was constantly moaning that he's in pain. When his disciple asked him why is he in pain if he has already got no form of attachments? The abbott replied that though he's in pain, he is not suffering.
Of course, I know the idea of suffering is alot deeper than what i've derived, but just my thoughts as a beginner.
Cherrio -
suffering is sometimes refusing to let go even it's beyond ur abilities .
my frenz said de. -
That is true also. Alot of people have problem letting go. It is not easy to do and I myself have the same problem in the past. But the relieve one experiences after letting go is so comfortable. It actually makes the person who had let go feels happier.Originally posted by Taiwanpolitics:suffering is sometimes refusing to let go even it's beyond ur abilities .
my frenz said de.
But do note that refusing to let go is different from not giving up. Not giving up means something still can be done where refusing to let go means already nothing can be done but just refusing to let go.
Cherrio -
Let me clarify.Originally posted by oldkid:Wah... abit chim. So, you are saying that how can a person suffers if he or she don't know or don't have the concept of suffering? Please correct me if I am wrong. Thanks.
Cherrio
What I am saying is that if all concepts are seen for what they are, just ideas, devoid of reality, then suffering would be seen the same way.
Suffering is just another aspect of the story of the separate sense of self, it is inseparable.
Suffering is part of the dream. -
suffering of life and death.
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Exactly!Originally posted by Ito_^:suffering of life and death. -
Exactly!Originally posted by Ito_^:suffering of life and death.
Life and death being just part of the story.
Are you your story? -
haven die yet. cannot tell.Originally posted by JonLS:Exactly!
Life and death being just part of the story.
Are you your story? -
Personal experience is suffering is caused by my deluded mind, from which spring out more sufferings.
I'm quite an ambitious person. Greed cause suffering for me when i tried to take on too many tasks at one time. When i feel tired or feeling uncomfortable, aversion will occurs and I will get annoyed easily. This affects the people around me too, like a ripple effects.
I also get restless easily- > not contented easily. Therefore, "i" could not be @ the moment more and enjoy the moment more.
Sometime bad past mistakes also haunt me--> see i'm attached.. and illusion of a self.
i'm still plagued by the three poision.
i thinkg Suffering is just a good wake up call. Lucky i suffer now. hehheh
mm just my 2cents of thought...