We are a perfect expression of being
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When was the last time you worried about fading in and out of existence?
This question is designed to bring you back to the reality of your being.
To the "I am".
Why can't we fully appreciate our perfection?
Because we're too busy identifying with thoughts and feelings in the mind and body. -
First , is there "I am"?
How do u identify yourself with the collective "I"?
you feel fading ,because u still have the mind that is insecure in a unsettled world
and the root problem is the "I" you hold so dear
If u do Loving Kindness and Compassion practise ,all this wont exist
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And also busy identifying with the "I Am". The worry has now come to it. Dissolve and passaway, fade out of existence! So be it!Originally posted by JonLS:Because we're too busy identifying with thoughts and feelings in the mind and body.
Fade away and appreciate "no where". Sleep well!
Why can't we fully appreciate our perfection? -
If there is an 'I AM' and then there are things other than 'I AM', then this is still dualistic.
This 'I AM' is nothing but just another thought... the assumption of a Witnessing Presence.
No witness is required... just be. -
When we clung too deeply to the luminous presence, to that ‘pure sense of existence’, we fail to see the emptiness nature of that presence. Phenomena dances in and out of existence, arises and subsides according to conditions. When a practitioner does not ‘posit’ an ‘I’ and ‘see’ that there is really no one behind, then popping in and out of existence is not seen as any thing unusual, still the perfect expression of our pristine nature that is empty. Allow Presence to be, no who, no when and no where.
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Agreed!Originally posted by Thusness:Fade away and appreciate "no where". Sleep well!
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Agree totally.Originally posted by longchen:If there is an 'I AM' and then there are things other than 'I AM', then this is still dualistic.
This 'I AM' is nothing but just another thought... the assumption of a Witnessing Presence.
No witness is required... just be.
To identify with any concept whatsoever takes us away from our true nature. -
Originally posted by Thusness:
Yes.
When we clung too deeply to the luminous presence, to that ‘pure sense of existence’, we fail to see the emptiness nature of that presence. Phenomena dances in and out of existence, arises and subsides according to conditions. When a practitioner does not ‘posit’ an ‘I’ and ‘see’ that there is really no one behind, then popping in and out of existence is not seen as any thing unusual, still the perfect expression of our pristine nature that is empty. [b]Allow Presence to be, no who, no when and no where. [/b]
Let go of ALL concepts and just be! -
Embrace arising and subsiding. Embrace conscious, pre-conscious and unconscious. When we hold to the understanding at the conscious level, we cannot see the workings of pre-conscious and unconscious level. By so doing, we discriminate unknowingly. We divide the undivided.Originally posted by JonLS:Agreed!
There is no way to pin our nature into a certain state. Neither conscious, pre-conscious nor unconscious is it. To experience the beauty when the ‘conscious’ isn’t there, be it. To have insight into our nature is to ‘be’ whatever and whenever condition is – Just simply thus. The cognizing mind cannot know, only ‘Thus come and go’ alone knows.
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Originally posted by Thusness:
Hi all, just sharing an article: Constant Consciousness
Embrace arising and subsiding. Embrace conscious, pre-conscious and unconscious. When we hold to the understanding at the conscious level, we cannot see the workings of pre-conscious and unconscious level. By so doing, we discriminate unknowingly. We divide the undivided.
There is no way to pin our nature into a certain state. Neither conscious, pre-conscious nor unconscious is it. To experience the beauty when the ‘conscious’ isn’t there, be it. To have insight into our nature is to ‘be’ whatever and whenever condition is – Just simply thus. The cognizing mind cannot know, only ‘Thus come and go’ alone knows.
Constant Consciousness
By: Ken Wilber
"That which is not present in deep dreamless sleep is not real." -Ramana Maharshi
Sitting here on the porch, watching the sun go down. Except there is no watcher, just the sun, setting, setting. From purest Emptiness, brilliant clarity shines forth. The sound of the birds, over there. Clouds, a few, right up there. But there is no "up," no "down," no "over," and no "there"-because there is no "me" or "I" for which these directions make sense. There is just this. Simple, clear, easy, effortless, ever-present this.
I became extremely serious about meditation practice when I read the following line from the illustrious Sri Ramana Maharshi: "That which is not present in deep dreamless sleep is not real."
That is a shocking statement, because basically there is nothing-literally nothing-in the deep dreamless state. That was his point. Ultimate reality (or Spirit), Ramana said, cannot be something that pops into consciousness and then pops out. It must be something that is constant, permanent, or, more technically, something that, being timeless, is fully present at every point in time. Therefore, ultimate reality must also be fully present in deep dreamless sleep, and anything that is not present in deep dreamless sleep is not ultimate reality.
This profoundly disturbed me, because I had had several kensho or satori-like experiences (glimpses of One Taste), but they were all confined to the waking state. Moreover, most of the things I cared for existed in the waking state. And yet clearly the waking state is not permanent. It comes and goes every twenty-four hours. And yet, according to the great sages, there is something in us that is always conscious-that is, literally conscious or aware at all times and through all states, waking, dreaming, sleeping. And that ever-present awareness is Spirit in us. That underlying current of constant consciousness (or nondual awareness) is a direct and unbroken ray of pure Spirit itself. It is our connection with the Goddess, our pipeline straight to God.
Thus, if we want to realize our supreme identity with Spirit, we will have to plug ourselves into this current of constant consciousness, and follow it through all changes of state-waking, dreaming, sleeping. This will: 1) strip us of an exclusive identification with any of those states (such as the body, the mind, the ego, or the soul); and 2) allow us to recognize and identify with that which is constant-or timeless-through all of those states, namely, Consciousness as Such, by any other name, timeless Spirit.
I had been meditating fairly intensely for around twenty years when I came across that line from Ramana. I had studied Zen with Katigiri and Maezumi; Vajrayana with Kalu and Trungpa; Dzogchen with Pema Norbu and Chagdud; plus Vedanta, TM, Kashmir Shaivism, Christian mysticism, Kabbalah, Daism, Sufism... well, it's a long list. When I ran across Ramana's statement, I was on an intensive Dzogchen retreat with my primary Dzogchen teacher, Chagdud Tulku Rinpoche. Rinpoche also stressed the importance of carrying the mirror-mind into the dream and deep sleep states. I began having flashes of this constant nondual awareness, through all states, which Rinpoche confirmed. But it wasn't until a few years later, during a very intense eleven-day period-in which the separate-self seemed to radically, deeply, thoroughly die-that it all seemed to come to fruition. I slept not at all during those eleven days; or rather, I was conscious for eleven days; or rather, I was conscious for eleven days and nights, even as the body and mind went through waking, dreaming and sleeping. I was unmoved in the midst of changes; there was no I to be moved; there was only unwavering empty consciousness, the luminous mirror-mind, the witness that was one with everything witnessed. I simply reverted to what I am, and it has been so, more or less, ever since.
The moment this constant nondual consciousness is obvious in your case, a new destiny will awaken in the midst of the manifest world. You will have discovered your own Buddha Mind, you own Godhead, your own formless, spaceless, timeless, infinite Emptiness, your own Atman that is Brahman, your Keter, Christ consciousness, radiant shekinah-in so many words, One Taste. It is unmistakably so. And just that is your true identity-pure Emptiness or pure unqualifiable Consciousness as Such-and thus you are released from the terror and the torment that necessarily arise when you identify with a little subject in a world of little objects.
Once you find your formless identity as Buddha-mind, as Atman, as pure Spirit or Godhead, you will take that constant, non-dual, ever present consciousness and re-enter the lesser states, subtle mind and gross body, and re-animate them with radiance. You will not remain merely Formless and Empty. You will empty yourself of Emptiness: you will pour yourself out into the mind and world, and create them in the process, and enter them all equally, but especially and particularly that specific mind and body that is called you (that is called, in my case, Ken Wilber): this lesser self will become the vehicle of the Spirit that you are.
And then all things, including your own little mind and body and feelings and thoughts, will arise in the vast Emptiness that you are, and they will self-liberate into their own true nature just as they arise, precisely because you no longer identify with any of them, but rather let them play, let them all arise, in the Emptiness and Openness that you now are. You then will awaken as radical Freedom, and sing those songs of radiant release, beam an infinity too obvious to see, and drink an ocean of delight. You will look at the moon as part of your body and bow to the sun as part of your heart, and all of it is just so. For eternally and always, eternally and always, there is only this.
Material in this column appears in One Taste: The Journals of Ken Wilber, from Shambhala Publications Inc., Boston. Copyright Ken Wilber, 1998.
Constant Consciousness, Ken Wilber, Shambhala Sun, January 1999. -
Embrace arising and subsiding. Embrace conscious, pre-conscious and unconscious. When we hold to the understanding at the conscious level, we cannot see the workings of pre-conscious and unconscious level. By so doing, we discriminate unknowingly. We divide the undivided.
Hi Thusness,
There is no way to pin our nature into a certain state. Neither conscious, pre-conscious nor unconscious is it. To experience the beauty when the ‘conscious’ isn’t there, be it. To have insight into our nature is to ‘be’ whatever and whenever condition is – Just simply thus. The cognizing mind cannot know, only ‘Thus come and go’ alone knows.
This is a very interesting answer because something happened today that fits perfectly with what you have said.
I don't know if I can explain and describe it properly but I will try.
I was sitting quietly when a certain "knowing" was in consciousness, this "knowing" had a message for me.
The message was to "abandon that way of knowing".
"That way of knowing" is the conscious reality that I experience every day as the "dream".
I am to abandon it and just be.
I have no idea how to do this, but I don't feel a need to know.
I simply allow, I trust. -
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Not to mistake what I said with Yoga Nidra of what Swami Rama taught or what Ramana Marharishi said. And not to mistake the dreamless state of Samadhi with nirohdha samapatti. “Witnessing” is not the only an aspect of our Pristine Awareness, not all of it.
Hi all, just sharing an article: Constant Consciousness
[b]Constant Consciousness
By: Ken Wilber
"That which is not present in deep dreamless sleep is not real." -Ramana Maharshi
Sitting here on the porch, watching the sun go down. Except there is no watcher, just the sun, setting, setting. From purest Emptiness, brilliant clarity shines forth. The sound of the birds, over there. Clouds, a few, right up there. But there is no "up," no "down," no "over," and no "there"-because there is no "me" or "I" for which these directions make sense. There is just this. Simple, clear, easy, effortless, ever-present this.
I became extremely serious about meditation practice when I read the following line from the illustrious Sri Ramana Maharshi: "That which is not present in deep dreamless sleep is not real."
That is a shocking statement, because basically there is nothing-literally nothing-in the deep dreamless state. That was his point. Ultimate reality (or Spirit), Ramana said, cannot be something that pops into consciousness and then pops out. It must be something that is constant, permanent, or, more technically, something that, being timeless, is fully present at every point in time. Therefore, ultimate reality must also be fully present in deep dreamless sleep, and anything that is not present in deep dreamless sleep is not ultimate reality.
This profoundly disturbed me, because I had had several kensho or satori-like experiences (glimpses of One Taste), but they were all confined to the waking state. Moreover, most of the things I cared for existed in the waking state. And yet clearly the waking state is not permanent. It comes and goes every twenty-four hours. And yet, according to the great sages, there is something in us that is always conscious-that is, literally conscious or aware at all times and through all states, waking, dreaming, sleeping. And that ever-present awareness is Spirit in us. That underlying current of constant consciousness (or nondual awareness) is a direct and unbroken ray of pure Spirit itself. It is our connection with the Goddess, our pipeline straight to God.
Thus, if we want to realize our supreme identity with Spirit, we will have to plug ourselves into this current of constant consciousness, and follow it through all changes of state-waking, dreaming, sleeping. This will: 1) strip us of an exclusive identification with any of those states (such as the body, the mind, the ego, or the soul); and 2) allow us to recognize and identify with that which is constant-or timeless-through all of those states, namely, Consciousness as Such, by any other name, timeless Spirit.
I had been meditating fairly intensely for around twenty years when I came across that line from Ramana. I had studied Zen with Katigiri and Maezumi; Vajrayana with Kalu and Trungpa; Dzogchen with Pema Norbu and Chagdud; plus Vedanta, TM, Kashmir Shaivism, Christian mysticism, Kabbalah, Daism, Sufism... well, it's a long list. When I ran across Ramana's statement, I was on an intensive Dzogchen retreat with my primary Dzogchen teacher, Chagdud Tulku Rinpoche. Rinpoche also stressed the importance of carrying the mirror-mind into the dream and deep sleep states. I began having flashes of this constant nondual awareness, through all states, which Rinpoche confirmed. But it wasn't until a few years later, during a very intense eleven-day period-in which the separate-self seemed to radically, deeply, thoroughly die-that it all seemed to come to fruition. I slept not at all during those eleven days; or rather, I was conscious for eleven days; or rather, I was conscious for eleven days and nights, even as the body and mind went through waking, dreaming and sleeping. I was unmoved in the midst of changes; there was no I to be moved; there was only unwavering empty consciousness, the luminous mirror-mind, the witness that was one with everything witnessed. I simply reverted to what I am, and it has been so, more or less, ever since.
The moment this constant nondual consciousness is obvious in your case, a new destiny will awaken in the midst of the manifest world. You will have discovered your own Buddha Mind, you own Godhead, your own formless, spaceless, timeless, infinite Emptiness, your own Atman that is Brahman, your Keter, Christ consciousness, radiant shekinah-in so many words, One Taste. It is unmistakably so. And just that is your true identity-pure Emptiness or pure unqualifiable Consciousness as Such-and thus you are released from the terror and the torment that necessarily arise when you identify with a little subject in a world of little objects.
Once you find your formless identity as Buddha-mind, as Atman, as pure Spirit or Godhead, you will take that constant, non-dual, ever present consciousness and re-enter the lesser states, subtle mind and gross body, and re-animate them with radiance. You will not remain merely Formless and Empty. You will empty yourself of Emptiness: you will pour yourself out into the mind and world, and create them in the process, and enter them all equally, but especially and particularly that specific mind and body that is called you (that is called, in my case, Ken Wilber): this lesser self will become the vehicle of the Spirit that you are.
And then all things, including your own little mind and body and feelings and thoughts, will arise in the vast Emptiness that you are, and they will self-liberate into their own true nature just as they arise, precisely because you no longer identify with any of them, but rather let them play, let them all arise, in the Emptiness and Openness that you now are. You then will awaken as radical Freedom, and sing those songs of radiant release, beam an infinity too obvious to see, and drink an ocean of delight. You will look at the moon as part of your body and bow to the sun as part of your heart, and all of it is just so. For eternally and always, eternally and always, there is only this.
Material in this column appears in One Taste: The Journals of Ken Wilber, from Shambhala Publications Inc., Boston. Copyright Ken Wilber, 1998.
Constant Consciousness, Ken Wilber, Shambhala Sun, January 1999.
[/b] -
Yes JonLs,Originally posted by JonLS:Hi Thusness,
This is a very interesting answer because something happened today that fits perfectly with what you have said.
I don't know if I can explain and describe it properly but I will try.
I was sitting quietly when a certain "knowing" was in consciousness, this "knowing" had a message for me.
The message was to "abandon that way of knowing".
"That way of knowing" is the conscious reality that I experience every day as the "dream".
I am to abandon it and just be.
I have no idea how to do this, but I don't feel a need to know.
I simply allow, I trust.
There is no line of demarcation among the 8 consciousness (buddhist terms) or the 3 states of consciousness “conscious, pre-conscious, unconscious”, attachment creates that line. For the sake of discussion in a conventional sense and non-buddhist term, it is said there are “conscious, pre-conscious, unconscious”ness, but in essence it is an undivided whole. True clarity comes when there is a total ‘let be’ for manifestation to take place in all states when condition arises. The ‘conscious’ level knows the effect and in the right track through the intensity clarity and bliss during the waking state.
And yes initially it is trust and faith through the fruition of clarity and bliss, with stability it is understood as a working whole simply just so -- As One undivided flow.
Good Luck. -
What is Yoga Nidra of Swami Rama?Originally posted by Thusness:Not to mistake what I said with Yoga Nidra of what Swami Rama taught or what Ramana Marharishi said. And not to mistake the dreamless state of Samadhi with nirohdha samapatti. “Witnessing” is not the only an aspect of our Pristine Awareness, not all of it. -
What Ken Wilbur said is the witnessing state of dreamless yoga - nidra yoga.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:What is Yoga Nidra of Swami Rama?
Also, the description of Ken Wilber's Constant Consciousness is not refering to Witnessing presence, isn't it? -
Hi AnEternalNow,
That is an absolutely fantastic quote by Ken Wilbur, I recognize the truth in it, now all that is left is to realize it! -
Oh I seeOriginally posted by Thusness:What Ken Wilbur said is the witnessing state of dreamless yoga - nidra yoga.
AgreedOriginally posted by JonLS:Hi AnEternalNow,
That is an absolutely fantistic quote by Ken Wilbur, I recognize the truth in it, now all that is left is to realize it! -
Hi JonLS,Originally posted by JonLS:Hi AnEternalNow,
That is an absolutely fantastic quote by Ken Wilbur, I recognize the truth in it, now all that is left is to realize it!
There is Presence but do not attempt to substain the 'Witnessing', this is attempting to hold on to a "familar state of being when the conditions of senses are functioning". Allow to be and completely let go. For what is"What Is" when the senses are suspended and perceptions, concepts and feelings come to a complete rest? Be Non-dual in dreamless, be non-dual in all 3 states and the energy u experienced will dance vibrantly with bliss to tell that you are on the right path during waking state. -
Yes!!!Originally posted by Thusness:Hi JonLS,
There is Presence but do not attempt to substain the 'Witnessing', this is attempting to hold on to a "familar state of being when the conditions of senses are functioning". Allow to be and completely let go. For what is"What Is" when the senses are suspended and perceptions, concepts and feelings come to a complete rest? Be Non-dual in dreamless, be non-dual in all 3 states and the energy u experienced will dance vibrantly with bliss to tell that you are on the right path during waking state.
Thank you!!!