Nothing is happening here
-
Here are some quotes by Nathan Gill:
[quote]This communication about clarity has no particular relevance or significance over any other part of the play. It carries no merit and has no point. There is no purpose for You to find Yourself.
If all there is is Consciousness, if there is only Consciousness, then why or for what
are you still seeking? If there is only Consciousness then right now you must be That and
every thing else that appears in and as awareness must also be That, including any sense
of separate self. Any appearance of mundane, ordinary existence can be no less of
Consciousness than any appearance of unconditional love, wholeness, bliss, stillness,
silence or anything else. Does anything really need to be transcended,
found or let go of?The apparently separate individual may be involved with self-improvement, spiritual life or anything else throughout the unfolding of that life. But only the clarity of what You really are undermines the search for awakening or for being anything other than what already is.
Spiritual life has no particular relevance to clarity – it is simply part of the play of life. But because of what appears in the play as the individual’s evolution through progressively ‘higher’ or finer stages of life, it is confused as a prerequisite to clarity.
The ordinary character, occupied with all the usual affairs of human life, perhaps becomes interested in religion or self-improvement. There could be a movement towards seeking enlightenment and maybe an interest in non-duality.
But this progression is not necessary for clarity to appear. Clarity could appear at any time in any character in the play. None of the apparent stages in the play of life has any ability to produce clarity. Advaitic knowledge has no more a special ability to create a condition for clarity to appear than does any other part of the play.
Spiritual life is based on the presumption of individuality, with reunion with the whole as the projected goal. And as a means to achieve this goal of reunion, an array of exotic techniques and methods are provided in the play, to ‘purify’ the individual, to get rid of the ‘I’, to become enlightened, etc.
The fundamental point that is missed at every stage of the individual’s quest is that the individual – being played by You, who are Consciousness – is already what he or she is seeking. Nothing can make the seeker any more what he or she already is.
The search and all the methods and techniques employed are there for no more reason than any other part of the play. They arise for their own sake, simply as part of the play.There is already only oneness or wholeness, and yet, when there is this mesmerising focus exclusively on the content aspect of oneness, there is a search for oneness. And this is the play of life: oneness in search of itself.
In the thought story there is a search for meaning and a looking for a way out of it all - whereas when it's seen to be simply a story arising presently, an extension into past and future existing merely in thought, then the seriousness goes out of the quest for oneness. There is simply registering of the present content of awareness. This is all that is ever happening. This is already presence, already oneness.
[/quote]
There is mesmerisation, identification as the thought story, but there is no one who is mesmerised. The 'I' is only apparent, part of the happening. Everything is happening entirely spontaneously of its own accord. There is nothing that 'you' are doing. This message is not a prescription for oneness - it's a description of it.
All of these quotes are pointing to the same thing, to the fact that the basic premise of these boards is incorrect.
The basic premise of these discussion boards is that there is a spiritual search that is happening, that someone can benefit from this search.
But we may as well be talking about cooking recipes because both are on the same level.
On the level of phenomenon, on the level of appearance, on the level of the story, on the level of the dream.
What is being discussed on these boards and in this post in particular has nothing to do with Truth, with Reality.
Because Reality already Is.
Total freedom is already the Reality.
There is nothing that need be done.
There is nothing that need be understood.
Nothing is happening here whatsoever.
But of course even this post "is not the truth".
Nothing can be said of the truth.
-
How true...
Sadly, forum moderators do not understand that fact. -
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:How true...
Sadly, forum moderators do not understand that fact.
-
quote:
LOL
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
How true...
Sadly, forum moderators do not understand that fact.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -
Yes, nothing is happening and indeed nothing needs to be attained. Enlightenment is a form of "insight"/"waking up" from false conceptions, and finds that nothing can be grasped/hold on. Therefore it can be truly called 'liberation'.
(chapter on bodhisattva manjusri)
~ The Sutra of Complete Enlightenment (http://www.prajna.nl/teksten/onderricht/soetras/complete/)
Bodhisattva Manjusri
Thereupon Bodhisattva Manjusri rose from his seat in the midst of the assembly, prostrated himself at the feet of the Buddha, circled the Buddha three times to the right, knelt down, joined his palms, [1] and said: “O World Honored One of great compassion! Please expound to the multitude who have come to this assembly the Tathagata s Dharma practice of the original-arising purity of the causal ground. [2] Please also expound to us how bodhisattvas may initiate this state of pure mind within the Mahayana and leave all illness. [Pray teach us] so that sentient beings in the future Dharma Ending Age who aspire to the Mahayana will not fall into erroneous views.” Having said these words, he prostrated himself on the ground. He made the same request three times, each time repeating the same procedure.
At that time the World Honored One said to Bodhisattva Manjusri: “Excellent, excellent! Virtuous man, for the benefit of the multitude of bodhisattvas you have asked about the Tathagata’s Dharma practice of the causal ground. For the benefit of all sentient beings in the Dharma Ending Age who aspire to Mahayana, you asked how they can attain correct abiding and not fall into erroneous views. Listen attentively now. I shall explain it to you.”
Hearing this, Bodhisattva Manjusri was filled with joy and listened silently along with the assembly.
“Virtuous man, the Supreme Dharma King possesses the method of the great dharani [3] called Complete Enlightenment, [4] out of which emanates pure true suchness, bodhi, and nirvana, as well as the paramitas to teach bodhisattvas. The original-arising [purity] of the causal ground of the Tathagatas relies on the complete illumination of [intrinsic] enlightenment, which is pure [in essence] and permanently free from ignorance. [5] Only then do the [Tathagatas] accomplish the Buddha Path.
“What is ignorance? Virtuous man, since beginningless time, all sentient beings have had all sorts of delusions, like a disoriented person who has lost his sense of direction. They mistake the four great elements [6] as the attributes of their bodies, and the conditioned impressions [7] of the six sense objects as the attributes of their minds. They are like a man with an illness of the eyes who sees an [illusory] flower in the sky, or a second moon.
“Virtuous man, there is in reality no flower in the sky, yet the sick man mistakenly clings to it. Because of his mistaken clinging, he is not only deluded about the intrinsic nature of the empty space, but also confused about the arising of the flower. Because of this false existence [to which he clings], he remains in the turning wheel of birth and death. Hence this is called ignorance.
“Virtuous man, this ignorance has no real substance. It is like a person in a dream. Though the person exists in the dream, when [the dreamer] awakens, there is nothing that can be grasped. Like an [illusory] flower in the sky that vanishes into empty space, one cannot say that there is a fixed place from which it vanishes. Why? Because there is no place from which it arises! Amidst the unarisen, all sentient beings deludedly perceive birth and extinction. Hence this is called the turning wheel of birth and death.
“Virtuous man, one who practices Complete Enlightenment of the causal ground of the Tathagata realizes that [birth and extinction] are like an illusory flower in the sky. Thus there is no continuance of birth and death and no body or mind that is subject to birth and death. This nonexistence of [birth and death and body and mind] is so not as a consequence of contrived effort. It is so by its intrinsic nature.
“The awareness [of their nonexistence] is like empty space. That which is aware of the empty space is like the appearance of the illusory flower. However, one cannot say that the nature of this awareness is nonexistent. Eliminating both existence and nonexistence is in accordance with pure enlightenment.
“Why is it so? Because the nature of empty space is ever unmoving. Likewise, there is neither arising nor perishing within the Tathagatagarbha. [8] It is free from conceptual knowledge and views. Like the nature of dharmadhatu, which is ultimate, wholly complete, and pervades all ten directions, such is the Dharma practice [of the Tathagata] of the causal ground.
“Because of this [intrinsic completeness], bodhisattvas within the Mahayana may give rise to pure bodhi-mind. If sentient beings in the Dharma Ending Age practice accordingly, they will not fall into erroneous views.”
At that time, the World Honored One, wishing to clarify his meaning, proclaimed these gathas:
Manjusri, you should know
that all Tathagatas,
from their original-arising causal ground,
use wisdom to enlighten
and penetrate ignorance.
Realizing that ignorance is like
a flower in the sky,
they are thus liberated from the continuance
[of birth and death].
Like a person [seen] in a dream who
cannot be found when [the dreamer] awakens,
awareness is like empty space.
It is impartial and equal, and ever unmoving.
When enlightenment pervades all ten directions,
the Buddha Path is accomplished.
There is no place where illusions vanish,
and there is no attainment
in accomplishing the Buddha Path,
for the intrinsic nature is already wholly complete.
By this, bodhisattvas
can give rise to the bodhi-mind.
Sentient beings in the Dharma Ending Age
through this practice will avoid erroneous views.
[1] Literally, this should be translated as “joined his palms together with the tips of the fingers crossed” (cha shou). This is one of the ancient Indian gestures for respect. It symbolizes the nonduality of the realm of the Buddhas (the left hand) and the realm of ordinary sentient beings (right hand).
[2] Causal ground (yin di) can also be understood as the mind-ground (xin di). It refers to both the circumstance when the Buddha first initiated the bodhi-mind (chu fa pu ti xin) and to the intrinsic nature of mind (xin xing) or Buddha-nature (fo xing). Original arising, ben qi simply means the fundamental starting point of Dharma practice (fa xing), which refers to the practice that accords with the nature of all dharmas (fa xing), that is, emptiness, (kong xing).
[3] Dharani (zong chi) means universal control. See glossary for further information.
[4] From the perspective of the result, Complete Enlightenment (yuan jue) refers to the state of Buddhahood. From the perspective of the path, where practice is still neccessary, Complete Enlightenment refers to the state reached by bodhisattvas first bhumi and above. From the perspective of the cause, it designates the perfection and completeness of Buddha-nature intrinsic to all beings (yuan man xian cheng zhi fo xing).
[5] Ignorance (wu ming) is avidva in Sanskrit. See glossary for further information.
[6] The four great elements (si da) are: earth, water, fire, and wind. Together, they constitute the physical body of a living human being.
[7] Impressions (ying) may also be translated as reflections or shadows.
[8] Tathagatagarbha (ru lai zang) is synonymous with Buddha-nature (fo xing). See glossary for further information. -
Also, there are four errors that needs to be avoided --
“Virtuous man, the wondrous Dharma that is actualized by this good teacher should be free from four kinds of faults.
~ Sutra of Complete Enlightenment
What are these four faults?
“The first is the fault of contrivance. If a man says: ‘I exert myself in all kinds of practices based on my intrinsic [pure] mind in order to seek Complete Enlightenment,’ this is a fault, because the nature of Complete Enlightenment is not ‘attained’ by contrivance.
“The second is the fault of allowing things to be as they are. If a man says: ‘I neither wish to sever birth and death nor seek nirvana. There are no conceptions of samsara and nirvana as truly arising or perishing. I allow everything to take its course with the various natures of dharmas in my quest for Complete Enlightenment,’ this is a fault, because the nature of Complete Enlightenment does not come about through accepting things as they are.
“The third is the fault of stopping. If a man says: ‘In my quest for Complete Enlightenment, if I permanently stop my mind from having any thoughts, then I will attain the quiescence and equality of the nature of all [dharmas],’ this is a fault, because the nature of Complete Enlightenment does not conform with the stopping of thoughts.
“The fourth is the fault of annihilation. If a man says: ‘In my quest for Complete Enlightenment, if I permanently annihilate all vexations, then my body and mind, not to mention the illusory realms of sense faculties and dust, will ultimately be emptiness and utter nothingness. Everything will be [in the state of] eternal quiescence,’ this is a fault, because the nature of Complete Enlightenment is not annihilation.
“One who is free from these four faults will know purity. To discern these faults is to have the right discernment. To have other discernments than these is called erroneous discernment. -
Originally posted by JonLS:
non-dual aspect.
Here are some quotes by Nathan Gill: -
Yes JonLS,
I am particularly keen on those articles written by Tony Parson and Nathan Gill after both you and AEN introduced me their websites. Thank you.
Many sites I see are full of duality. Thorough non-duality or no-self experience is rare. It will be great if they can describe what the waking state is like after non-dual is experienced in all three states.
As Nathan Gill mentioned "not a prescription for oneness - it's a description of it." Just description.
PS: I have searched for years and only to find a sutra in buddhism describe it. It is the lankavatara sutra. But u may not like it... -
Lastly JonLS,
Don't think linear and don't limit our nature to locality. All are artificial boundaries. The momentum has ‘conditioned’ our intrinsic nature the ‘physical limitations’, a boxed-up experience. A moment of manifestation need not be so; our emptiness nature is non-local. -
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
upsidedown-er.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
How true...
Sadly, forum moderators do not understand that fact.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
/\ -
This sounds very good to me Thusness.Originally posted by Thusness:Lastly JonLS,
Don't think linear and don't limit our nature to locality. All are artificial boundaries. The momentum has ‘conditioned’ our intrinsic nature the ‘physical limitations’, a boxed-up experience. A moment of manifestation need not be so; our emptiness nature is non-local.
P.S.
Give me a link to the lankavatara sutra if you can. -
There are many repetitions and buddhist jargons. Don't get bored
First 2 chapters of lankavatara sutra:
http://www.beezone.com/lankavatara.html
There is one version that gives short but quite good commentary. I supposed the the website is down but a cache version can be found at the following url:
http://72.14.235.104/search?q=cache:YL6edRjUdtQJ:www.buddhistinformation.com/lankavatara_sutra.htm+lankavatara+sutra&hl=en&gl=sg&ct=clnk&cd=1 -
The full version of the sutra is here, http://www.lirs.ru/do/lanka_eng/lanka-nondiacritical.htmOriginally posted by Thusness:There are many repetitions and buddhist jargons. Don't get bored
First 2 chapters of lankavatara sutra:
http://www.beezone.com/lankavatara.html
There is one version that gives short but quite good commentary. I supposed the the website is down but a cache version can be found at the following url:
http://72.14.235.104/search?q=cache:YL6edRjUdtQJ:www.buddhistinformation.com/lankavatara_sutra.htm+lankavatara+sutra&hl=en&gl=sg&ct=clnk&cd=1
But I read the 'BIONA' version which you said was a 'commentary' but actually isn't a commentary. It is just a shortened version of the full sutra. I didn't read the full sutra as it was very long.. so I read the biona version.
(the commentary is here instead, http://web.archive.org/web/20060205092157/http://www.buddhistinformation.com/dream_world_ch_1.htm) -
Quoted from another forum, the essence of Yogacara Buddhism and also the Mind-only concept in Lankavatara Sutra:
Recently, I found a used book entitled A Critical Survey of Indian Philosophy by Sharma Chandradhar (Motilal Banarsidass, 1987), which contains an explanation of the YogaAcAra position on vijJaptimAtrata that is close to my own understanding, but in much more cogent terms than I have ever expressed that understanding.
Summarized (Ch 10, pp. 144-145):
"DiNnAga in his Alambana-parIkSA criticizes the atoms of the VaibhASikas and the VasiheSikas and the arguments used by him are similar to those used by Vasabandhu in his ViMSatikA... so-called external objects do not exist independently and outside of consciousness. Consciousness manifests itself as the subject as well as the object. The so-called external object is only the 'knowable-aspect' (grAhy-bhAga) or the 'object-condition' (Alambana-pratyaya) of consciousness. Its objectivity is not denied for it is said to appear as object to the knowing subject. Only its objectivity does not fall outside of consciousness. The opponent objects that if the object is a part of consciousness and appears simultaneously with it, then how can it be a condition to consciousness itself? DiNnAga answers this by pointing out that the object, the essence of which is consciousness and which is only the knowable-aspect of consciousness, appears as if it is something external and also serves as a condition to consciousness because of its invariable association with consciousness and also because of its transmitting the force in succession.... This force is not something opposed to consciousness for it is inside consciousness itself....
DharmakIrti also asserts that an object is nothing but relative existence and the latter is nothing but dependence on causes and conditions. The form in which consciousness manifests itself under causes and conditions is called an 'external object' (note: PramANa-VArtika, III, 224).... ...the distinction between internal and external is within Consciousness itself. Consciousness is a unity. Its manifestation as subject and object is therefore only an appearance, not reality (note: Ibid, III, 212)." -
Hi AEN,
I read the excerpt you posted.
Thank you for posting it.
My head started hurting about half way through reading it, so I had to give up.
I will just allow the "internal" teacher to guide me.
This feels more beneficial and natural.
-
Originally posted by JonLS:Hi AEN,
I read the excerpt you posted.
Thank you for posting it.
My head started hurting about half way through reading it, so I had to give up.
I will just allow the "internal" teacher to guide me.
This feels more beneficial and natural. 
Don't think you like philosophy -
does it relate to buddhism ?
-
What are you refering to? Nathan Gill? Yes. Like Thusness said, Non-dual aspect. (Non-dual = no subject and object)Originally posted by marcteng:does it relate to buddhism ?