are all religions the same ?
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Are all religions the same ?
Is Jesus a Boddhisattva ?
Is Mother Mary also a Boddhisattva ?
Is Lao Tzu a pretayaka Buddha ?
If the above is commonly believed by alot of Buddhists, based on what are we concluding them to be into our buddhist hierachy ?
If all religion are the same, what's the value in taking refuge in the Triple Gems ? -
No...
There is some similarities in the beginning as the Founders expound on certain fundamental truths.
But what the various religions have become is utterly different now. -
religions in itself is neutral and innocent. it is our human mind that adds in the meaning, labeling, discrinminations, highs and low, this is like this, that should not be like this...etcs, that makes the religions different.
for example tv or internet media. if people go and use it to show killing, stealing, lust, cheating, then that tv media becomes polluted. but if the tv is to show wholesome and pure, then the tv becomes a useful tool.
so tv in itself is neutral. it's the content that is the problem. or we are the problem.
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I agreed, there are similarities between the founders, but the religions formed after them are utterly different.Originally posted by longchen:No...
There is some similarities in the beginning as the Founders expound on certain fundamental truths.
But what the various religions have become is utterly different now.
The teachings of Jesus become distorted due to political purposes, their religion institutionalized, however there are many similarities that we can find btwn Jesus and Buddha's teachings (see Jesus Buddhist Link? (Lost Years & Last Years)). If we look into the mystical/higher teachings.. i.e Gospel of Thomas and other mystical teachings, we find even more similarities. Apart from the 'higher teachings', Jesus taught many teachings as 'skillful means' as well due to the conditions of the people at that time, most teachings are only up to the level of doing good. Enlightened people however will be able to see the deeper essence of Jesus's teachings. Jesus's greatest virtue is in 'Xi2 She3'.. means something like sacrificing all he has for others. A lot of his teachings is about this. However to learn from Jesus's bodhisattva kind of spirit and attain enlightenment, it is through practising Buddhism that we can accomplish all these. (And anyway I believe Jesus had practised Buddhism in his lifetime as well)
Lao Tzu is similar case. Lao Tzu taught Tao Te Ching which is about "Qing Jing Wu Wei".. a few other Taoist practitioners followed his original teachings, including Chuang Tzu (Lao Tzu's disciple).. who I believe is also highly awakened (although not the Buddhist level of awakening). Lao Tzu may be the only awakened person in the entire Taoist lineage.
The problem with Taoism is that a lot of superstitious elements is added in, Taoism is not just about Lao Tzu but a full host of alchemy, magical, mediumship practises, and deity worshipping, that has nothing to do with Lao Tzu's teachings. All these things are going after worldly benefit, nothing to do with liberation. Therefore my general advise is to avoid those practises that do not lead to liberation.
One virtue of most religions is that they teach about avoiding evil and doing all good. But these religions generally lack the part about 'purifying the mind'. So it is through practising Buddhism that we can attain liberation. -
Buddhism had already teaches the gradual process of cultivation when we say, "Avoid evil, Do good and purify the mind. "
so, there will bound to be some religions that are only to the level of avoiding evil (for human realms). and some that are to the LEVEL of Doing good (for heavenly realms). then for those advance level ones go on further to Purify the Mind (liberation from samsara).
of cos, there will also be others' that don't even have all the three process, ie they commit evils.
here's the scenario, in the past, communications around the world is not as advance as now. people in a village don't actually know people of other countries. so bodhsiattvas that go into different places to teach dharma also varies in LEVEL depending on the level and culture of the people in a particular area.
now that our earth is almost like a village or family with the help of all the advance technologies of aeroplanes, tv and internet etcs. the dharma teachings given then by the bodhisattvas might seem to have their own labeling. so it's natural that due to our discrimination mind, we would tends to reject, without really going into the contexts. but we can understand those that are within the 3 criteria(Avoid evil, Do good and purify the mind) and forgive their ignorance. only those context that are out of the 3 criteria, then we need to be careful and avoid (jing er yuan zi).
btw, i'm into yuan jiao (Complete Teaching of Hua Yen). if one is into Lotus sutra, then one should also be into Complete Teaching too.
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My opinion is they are the same as they want us to be good.
Example a teacher... regardless of their races or subjects ... they want to teach or share their knowledge and want us to learn from them.
So, its up to individual interest of the subject and attitude to learn. -
Partly right.. Yet they are not the same because Buddhism teaches about Liberation/nirvana and enlightenment (i.e Realising our true nature), not just about doing good, avoiding evil, attaining better rebirths.Originally posted by csp3976:My opinion is they are the same as they want us to be good.
Example a teacher... regardless of their races or subjects ... they want to teach or share their knowledge and want us to learn from them.
So, its up to individual interest of the subject and attitude to learn.
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How about purifying your mind from all religions? Sounds much easier and better.Originally posted by sinweiy:Buddhism had already teaches the gradual process of cultivation when we say, "Avoid evil, Do good and purify the mind. "
so, there will bound to be some religions that are only to the level of avoiding evil (for human realms). and some that are to the LEVEL of Doing good (for heavenly realms). then for those advance level ones go on further to Purify the Mind (liberation from samsara).
of cos, there will also be others' that don't even have all the three process, ie they commit evils.
here's the scenario, in the past, communications around the world is not as advance as now. people in a village don't actually know people of other countries. so bodhsiattvas that go into different places to teach dharma also varies in LEVEL depending on the level and culture of the people in a particular area.
now that our earth is almost like a village or family with the help of all the advance technologies of aeroplanes, tv and internet etcs. the dharma teachings given then by the bodhisattvas might seem to have their own labeling. so it's natural that due to our discrimination mind, we would tends to reject, without really going into the contexts. but we can understand those that are within the 3 criteria(Avoid evil, Do good and purify the mind) and forgive their ignorance. only those context that are out of the 3 criteria, then we need to be careful and avoid (jing er yuan zi).
btw, i'm into yuan jiao (Complete Teaching of Hua Yen). if one is into Lotus sutra, then one should also be into Complete Teaching too.
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Like what AEN has said, its much more than that.Originally posted by csp3976:My opinion is they are the same as they want us to be good.
Example a teacher... regardless of their races or subjects ... they want to teach or share their knowledge and want us to learn from them.
So, its up to individual interest of the subject and attitude to learn. -
In addition to what the rest has said, what is meant by "good" varies from religion to religion.Originally posted by csp3976:My opinion is they are the same as they want us to be good. -
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
sometimes, capacity of people's mind varies. moreover, manytimes, we also need step by step. if u ask a primary school kid to striaght away learn the difficult understanding of university texts, you think they can understand?
How about purifying your mind from all religions? Sounds much easier and better.[/b]
even within the "university texts", u may also have to specialize on a particular subject. hence we Buddhism have different schools for different types of mind illness. like medicine. what kind of illness need what can of medicine. we cannot mixed the medicine together, it get confusing.
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Simply said that having no religion and philosophy is better than having any religion and philosophy.Originally posted by sinweiy:sometimes, capacity of people's mind varies. moreover, manytimes, we also need step by step. if u ask a primary school kid to striaght away learn the difficult understanding of university texts, you think they can understand?
even within the "university texts", u may also have to specialize on a particular subject. hence we Buddhism have different schools for different types of mind illness. like medicine. what kind of illness need what can of medicine. we cannot mixed the medicine together, it get confusing.
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Wrong. In that case there will be no liberation, no bliss, no wisdom of the dharma.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:Simply said that having no religion and philosophy is better than having any religion and philosophy. -
Who said there's no liberation? You are free of rituals and arachic nonsense. There will be bliss as there is no nonsense of the dharma in the first place.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Wrong. In that case there will be no liberation, no bliss, no wisdom of the dharma. -
Buddhism has nothing to do with arachic nonsense and useless rituals. In fact in the first stage of awakening, called stream entry, the fetter of attachment to useless rites and rituals is already eliminated. So called "Rituals" are minimum and are used for very specific purposes. (i.e Chanting is to get the sutra deep into our minds)Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:Who said there's no liberation? You are free of rituals and arachic nonsense. There will be bliss as there is no nonsense of the dharma in the first place.
Secondly, dharma is truth, not nonsense. It is the truth that sets sentient beings free. Without knowing dharma we cannot attain enlightenment, unless we are pratyekabuddhas, and even so, they have learnt from the Buddhas in previous lifetimes.
Without knowing dharma there can never be liberation from fundamental illusions and sufferings caused by duality, the root cause of all sufferings. You will never know your true nature. There cannot be the experience of the highest bliss of Nirvana. -
Buddhism has a lot to do with nonsense rituals and useless chants. Sutras are based on words and yet linguistic changes can render the meaning useless or changed so that it is an action in futility.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Buddhism has nothing to do with arachic nonsense and useless rituals. In fact the first stage of awakening, called stream entry, has partly to do with eliminating the fetter of attachment to useless rites and rituals. So called "Rituals" are minimum and are used for very specific purposes. (i.e Chanting is to get the sutra deep into our minds)
Secondly, dharma is truth, not nonsense. It is the truth that sets sentient beings free. Without knowing dharma we cannot attain enlightenment, unless we are pratyekabuddhas, and even so, they have learnt from the Buddhas in previous lifetimes.
Secondly, dharma is nonsense as not one sentient being has been set free by it. It, in fact, binds and closes the mind from logic and understanding. -
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
Buddhism has nothing to do with nonsense rituals.
Buddhism has a lot to do with nonsense rituals and useless chants. Sutras are based on words and yet linguistic changes can render the meaning useless or changed so that it is an action in futility.
Even if sutras have linguistic changes, they have never been changed to the degree that it is not understandable or the essence has changed.
Obviously you haven't read any single sutras and is just making a very poor assumption.Secondly, dharma is nonsense as not one sentient being has been set free by it. It, in fact, binds and closes the mind from logic and understanding.
This is ridiculous. Countless Buddhists have as a result of dharma practise attained liberation and enlightenment, including today, and even those in our forums.
Don't anyhow make your own statements as you like without any basis at all. -
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
if u can do that which mean returning to innocence, or carefree-ness, i salute u.
Simply said that having no religion and philosophy is better than having any religion and philosophy.[/b]
but, since we cannot, as people's mind are very itch(greedy like Buddha said). they like to Have.
so if u really want to have, have a Good and useful one.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
so why are you still here reading our nonsense? might as well go somewhere else to do something you "think" it's useful.
Buddhism has a lot to do with nonsense rituals and useless chants. Sutras are based on words and yet linguistic changes can render the meaning useless or changed so that it is an action in futility.
Secondly, dharma is nonsense as not one sentient being has been set free by it. It, in fact, binds and closes the mind from logic and understanding.[/b]
but if u want to make friends here, at least find some common interest.
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How many is countless buddhists? Can confirm that they are liberated? Duh... In any fact, they are not liberated, just pyschotically out of whack. (Aka the infamous mental paradigm shift)Originally posted by An Eternal Now:This is ridiculous. Countless Buddhists have as a result of dharma practise attained liberation and enlightenment, including today, and even those in our forums.
Don't anyhow make your own statements as you like without any basis at all.
I have been reading sutras and treatises but definitely I would say any religion is just more problems than it is worth. -
Was answering the above question"are all religions the same?".Originally posted by sinweiy:so why are you still here reading our nonsense? might as well go somewhere else to do something you "think" it's useful.
but if u want to make friends here, at least find some common interest.
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Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
define ur idea of 'usefulness'.
Was answering the above question"are all religions the same?".
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Just enlightening other forum readers.Originally posted by sinweiy:define ur idea of 'usefulness'.
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Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
Just a rough number, at the times of Buddha, there are at least a few thousand Arhats (i.e 4th stage of arhatship) and many more who attained 1st, 2nd, 3rd stage of arhatship, in many instance 1250 fully liberated arhats were present at a single assembly, and at the time of the first council a few weeks after Buddha's parinirvana, there were 500 arhats present to hear and witness the recitation of Buddha's teachings. During Buddha's times alone there were several thousand liberated beings, after that there are a lot more. Even today, there are a lot of enlightened practitioners and teachers. Just that you didn't quite open your eyes, and choose to "be the frog that stays in the well", and choose to be in refusal to hear the teachings of the Buddha and practise the teachings of the Buddha.
How many is countless buddhists? Can confirm that they are liberated? Duh... In any fact, they are not liberated, just pyschotically out of whack. (Aka the infamous mental paradigm shift)
It is also very absurd to say that liberated persons are psychotically out of whack. There is nothing at all which suggests and proves that enlightened people are psychotically out of whack. This is the worse kind of assumptions and slander, due to your long held dogmas, you are unable to accept the fact that there are enlightened beings in the world.I have been reading sutras and treatises but definitely I would say any religion is just more problems than it is worth.
More assumptions.
Countless Buddhists can testify that their practise has helped them a lot in life. -
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
u take care of your own part, why u care those religious people creating problems. they are busy bodies. if people can take care of their own parts, then who needs religions. we just need teaching and realisation of people. which is what the truth/dharma is about. not the commonly labeled of Buddhism is religion. if Buddhism is religion that teach busy body, making troubles around the world, i also don't want.
I have been reading sutras and treatises but definitely I would say any religion is just more problems than it is worth.[/b]
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Any census on the numbers of ex-Buddhists who complained that their former practice made them to be crackpots?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:More assumptions.
Countless Buddhists can testify that their practise has helped them a lot in life.