Seeking a new religion.... Need advice please....
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I was a baptized Catholic however, the older I grow the more I cannot agree with Jesus Christ and the bible. It's not just the very strict rule book called the bible. As a Christian / Catholic, if you are good you go to heaven FOREVER if you are bad you go to hell FOREVER. You see what I'm concerned with is not whether I go to heaven or hell but it is FOREVER, ETERNALITY deal that is signed with it. Imagine you go to heaven, you can never ever misbehave, even a tiny little bit. If you go to hell, you suffer and burn forever. What's the point? It kills the fun doesn't it? So boring! And it's human nature to have fun, right?
Now, I would like to learn more Zen Buddhism, since it's more simple than the other forms of Buddhism, I heard. What can you guys tell me about Zen Buddism and how is it different other kinds of Buddism like Thai Buddhism?
I believe there's a God or a superior being out there who created all living but it doesn't have to be through Jesus and the Christian bible. -
Originally posted by Robobeng:
Yes, in Buddhism there is no such thing as eternal hell or heaven. Impermanency is a very important teaching of Buddhism.. and we are born in hell or heaven due to our karma. Even if we are born in the highest heaven (in Buddhism there are altogether 28 heavens), after 84000 kalpas (billions of years) the karma will still be exhausted and you will be reborn elsewhere. Even in the lowest hell, you will still be able to reborn in other realms again after your karma has exhausted kalpas later. All are due to karma, cause and effect. There is no personal creator or God that judges you and sends you to someplace eternally.
I was a baptized Catholic however, the older I grow the more I cannot agree with Jesus Christ and the bible. It's not just the very strict rule book called the bible. As a Christian / Catholic, if you are good you go to heaven FOREVER if you are bad you go to hell FOREVER. You see what I'm concerned with is not whether I go to heaven or hell but it is FOREVER, ETERNALITY deal that is signed with it. Imagine you go to heaven, you can never ever misbehave, even a tiny little bit. If you go to hell, you suffer and burn forever. What's the point? It kills the fun doesn't it? So boring! And it's human nature to have fun, right?
I believe there's a God or a superior being out there who created all living but it doesn't have to be through Jesus and the Christian bible.
Hi.. it's good and I'm glad that you are open minded to look into Buddhism
Many Buddhists I know, many friends, my local dharma teacher as well as my Buddhist master were Christians once as well. With an spacious/empty mind, we will be able to accept even greater teachings.THE MASTER Nan-in had a visitor who came to inquire about Zen. But
Furthermore Buddhism does not encourage any blind belief and dogmas (see Kalama Sutra), and also encourages analytical questioning -- whether this teaching actually helps us.
instead of listening, the visitor kept talking about his own
ideas.
After a while, Nan-in served tea. He poured tea into his visitor's
cup until it was full, then he kept on pouring.
Finally the visitor could not restrain himself. "Don't you see
it's full?" he said. "You can't get any more in!"
"Just so," replied Nan-in, stopping at last. "And like this cup,
you are filled with your own ideas. How can you expect me to give
you Zen unless you offer me an empty cup?"Kalama Sutra
My master was an active Christian pastor once in China, who always scolded Buddhism as 'superstitious' or 'demonic' due to his ignorance of Buddhism, but after his university lecturer asked him to go and write a critic of Buddhism, he went to research all the Buddhist teachings and in the end agreed to all of them and became a monk. (more of his story here, read the last two posts in that page: Curious - Any Christian-turned-Buddhist converts here?)
"Rely not on the teacher/person, but on the teaching. Rely not on the words of the teaching, but on the
spirit of the words. Rely not on theory, but on experience.Do not believe in anything simply because you
have heard it. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. Do
not believe anything because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything because it is
written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and
elders. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is
conducive to the good and the benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it."
- the Buddha
Note: this is just a summary, please read the entire sutra here: http://buddhism.kalachakranet.org/resources/kalama_sutra.html
First of all Buddhism does not accept the idea that there is a personal Creator, means the Old Testament kind of God that has a personality of its own.. and you can actually meet him up for coffee
. If there is a personal Creator it brings a lot of questions into mind. Therefore, Albert Einstein said,
"Buddhism has the characteristics of what would be expected in a cosmic religion for the future: it transcends a personal God, avoids dogmas and theology; it covers both the natural & spiritual, and it is based on a religious sense aspiring from the experience of all things, natural and spiritual, as a meaningful unity"
and..
“If there is any religion that would cope with modern scientific needs it would be Buddhism.”
Regarding the question of Personal God in Buddhism,Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Slightly edited from the first topic in our forum regarding Creationism: How the Brahma believed He was God?
In Buddha's days there were many many different teachings, one popular one was Brahmanism. In fact the Brahma was still worshipped nowadays. Brahma was known to be "The Supreme One, the All-mighty, the All-seeing, the Ruler, the Lord of all, the Maker, the Creator, the Chief of All".
In Buddhism, the Mahabrahma resides in the 1st Jhana plane, the first plane among the 8 jhanic planes. There were higher realms above where he lives that he was unaware of, and above it all, beyond the 8 Jhanic planes and all Samsaric planes, is Nirvana. Nevertheless all the devas below the 1st Jhana planes considered him as the Creator God. Buddha did not subscribe to the belief of such a notion that the Universe and its Inhabitants were the Creation of the Mahabrahma. He met with the Brahma, asked him questions which he could not answer. Eventually he has taken refuge in the Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha.
The Buddha was also known to have said this,
If the creator of the world entire
They call God, of every being be the Lord
Why does he order such misfortune
If the creator of the world entire
They call God, of every being be the Lord
Why prevail deceit, lies and ignorance
And he such inequity and injustice create?
If the creator of the world entire
They call God, of every being be the Lord
Then an evil master is he, (O Aritta)
Knowing what's right did let wrong prevail!
When the previous universe was destroyed and this universe was formed, the Mahabrahma was first to be reborn. Other subsequent brahmas/devas were to be reborn.
'On this, brethren, the one who was first reborn thinks thus to himself: " I am Brahmà , the Great Brahmà , the Supreme One, the Mighty, the All-seeing, the Ruler, the Lord of all, the Maker, the Creator, the Chief of all, appointing to each his place, the Ancient of days the Father of all that are and are to be. 'These other beings are of my creation. And why is that so? A while ago I thought, 'Would that they might come!' And on my mental aspiration, behold the beings came." DN 1 2:5 -
(continued from previous post)
In reality, the universe works by the law of Karma and he has no control over the system of karma.
The Venerable Ledi Sayadaw, a highly renowned Myanmar scholar-monk of the first part of this century, gave a careful analysis of the powers of Maha Brahma in his Niyama Dipani (MB pp. 138-39). He states that although Maha Brahma can perform all sorts of transformations, he cannot actually create independent creatures, change the kammic law of cause and effect, or keep anyone from growing old or dying. Brahma can use his special powers to transport a man to the brahma plane for a short visit, but he cannot ensure that someone will be reborn there.
from http://www.jenchen.org.sg/vol5no3f.htm:
When he came to know about Sakyamuni Buddha in the human world who speaks of the universal truth, he was curious and arrived at the human world with the intention to debate with the Buddha. The Buddha, with his ability to know another's mind, knew his intention and asked, "You claim to be the creator of the human race and all things in the universe, is this a fact?"
The king replied, "Yes, it is."
Buddha continued to question him, "Since you created life, why did you also create death? Is death created by you too?"
The king paused for while, and thinking that everyone loves life and nobody welcomes death, he replied, "I did not create death."
Buddha asked him again, "All human beings experience sickness, did you create sickness also?" The king knew that nobody likes to be ill, and he replied, "I did not create illness."
Buddha asked many questions in succession, but the king denied that he created them. Eventually, he admitted that he did not create the universe and all things in it, and certainly not the human race. The king of heavens was full of regrets and he felt ashamed. Finally, he accepted Buddha as his teacher and invited Him to spread the Dharma in the heavens.
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http://www.mahindarama.com/e-library/whybuddhism2.html
"To those who talked about the first cause of this world, the Buddha responded by saying that it is impossible to find a first cause since everything is changing, interdependent and conditioned by other things. Something that acts as the cause in the present may become the effect in the future. Later that same effect may again become the cause. Such phenomenon continues ad infinitum. It is called the universal law of Anicca or impermanency.”
However, Buddhism is largely Agnostic rather than Atheist. We believe that pondering over such things brings no benefits at all to our spiritual practice, enlightenment, and liberation from samsara.
Kinds of speech to be avoided by contemplatives
"Whereas some priests and contemplatives, living off food given in faith, are addicted to talking about lowly topics such as these -- talking about kings, robbers, ministers of state; armies, alarms, and battles; food and drink; clothing, furniture, garlands, and scents; relatives; vehicles; villages, towns, cities, the countryside; women and heroes; the gossip of the street and the well; tales of the dead; tales of diversity [philosophical discussions of the past and future], the creation of the world and of the sea, and talk of whether things exist or not -- he abstains from talking about lowly topics such as these. This, too, is part of his virtue.
"Whereas some priests and contemplatives, living off food given in faith, are addicted to debates such as these -- 'You understand this doctrine and discipline? I'm the one who understands this doctrine and discipline. How could you understand this doctrine and discipline? You're practicing wrongly. I'm practicing rightly. I'm being consistent. You're not. What should be said first you said last. What should be said last you said first. What you took so long to think out has been refuted. Your doctrine has been overthrown. You're defeated. Go and try to salvage your doctrine; extricate yourself if you can!' -- he abstains from debates such as these. This, too, is part of his virtue."
-- DN 2
Ten wholesome topics of conversation
"There are these ten topics of [proper] conversation. Which ten? Talk on modesty, on contentment, on seclusion, on non-entanglement, on arousing persistence, on virtue, on concentration, on discernment, on release, and on the knowledge & vision of release. These are the ten topics of conversation. If you were to engage repeatedly in these ten topics of conversation, you would outshine even the sun & moon, so mighty, so powerful -- to say nothing of the wanderers of other sects."
-- AN X.69
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"Malunkhyaputta Sutta stresses that whether the universe was created or uncreated, finite or infinite, is irrelevant to our main spiritual concerns: the cause and cessation of suffering:
"Therefore Malunkhyaputta, bear the undeclared as undeclared. Malunkhyaputta, what are the not declared? The world is eternal, is not declared by me. The world is not eternal, is not declared by me. They are not essential for the principles of the holy life, they do not lead to turning away, to detachment, to cessation, to appeasement, to realisation, to enlightenment and to extinction. Malunkhyaputta, what are the declared by me? This, is unpleasant, is declared. This, is its arising, is declared. This, is its cessation is declared. This is the path to its cessation, is declared. Malunkhyaputta, why are these declared by me? These are the essentials for the principles of the holy life; they lead to turning away, to detachment, to cessation, to appeasement, to realisation, to enlightenment and to extinction. Malunkhyaputta, I declare them." MN 64" -
However, there is a concept in Buddhism that is somewhat close to the notion of a Creator.. however we must understand that this is by no means a Personal God. Rather, it is the concept of the Dharmakaya Buddha or the Primordial Buddha or our Buddha Nature, it is our Source Reality so to speak, and sometimes in Buddhism the scriptures call it 'All-creating king':
"Buddha and God" (7)
Dalai Lama further clarifies:
The relevant scripture is not officially a sutra (although it does on occasion refer to itself as such), but a Buddhist "tantra" (a more mystical, secret manual for Buddhist practice). It is entitled The All-Creating King. This is what it teaches: all things spring from the Awakened Mind (bodhicitta), which is called Samantabhadra Buddha. "Samantabhadra" means "All-Good" (we remember that one of the definitions of God earlier in this study stated that God is "all good"). This Samantabhadra Buddha is the source of all Buddhas and all beings. Apart from Samantabhadra Buddha, nothing truly exists, since all depends on Buddha, but Buddha depends on nothing. This Primaeval Buddha is called "Adi-Buddha" (Primordial Buddha) elsewhere in Buddhism, and is sometimes named Vairochana or Vajrasattva. The important point, however, is that this Buddha represents the Ultimate Source of all things, whether of the past, present or future. Without Samantabhadra Buddha - the all-good, universal Mind of Awake-ness - nothing can exist. Here are some quotes from the All-Creating King Tantra, in which Samantabhadra speaks directly to the listener:
"I, the supreme source ["All-Creating King"], am the sole maker, and no other agent exists in the world. The nature of phenomena is created through me ... The very manifestation of existence itself depends on me ... I am self-arising wisdom that has existed from the beginning. I am the supreme source of everything, pure and total consciousness ...'Consciousness' means that self-arising wisdom, the true essence, dominates and clearly perceives all the phenomena of the animate and inanimate universe. This self-arising fundamental substance, not produced by causes and condition, governs all things and gives life to all things ... As my nature is unhindered and all-pervading, it is the celestial abode of wisdom and luminous space: therein abides only self-arising wisdom. As I am the substance whence everything arises, the five great elements, the three worlds [i.e. the worlds of Desire, Form, and Formlessness] and the six classes of beings [hell-denizens, ghosts, animals, humans, Titans, and gods] are only my body, my voice, and my mind: I myself create my own nature ... The root of all phenomena is pure and total consciousness, the source. All that appears is my nature. All that manifests is my magical display. All sounds and words express only my meaning ...
"I am the core of all that exists. I am the seed of all that exists. I am the foundation of all that exists. I am the root of existence. I am 'the core', because I contain all phenomena. I am 'the seed', because I give birth to everything. I am 'the cause', because all comes forth from me. I am 'the trunk', because the ramificationsof every event sprout from me. I am 'the foundation', because all abides in me. I am called 'the root', because I am everything [emphasis added]" (Translation of "The All-Creating King", published as The Supreme Source, tr. by Adriano Clemente and Andrew Lukianowicz, Snow Lion Publications, Ithaca, New York 1999, pp. 137-141, 157).Q: You have said that according to Buddhist philosophy there is no Creator, no God of creation, and this may initially put off many people who believe in a divine principle. Can you explain the difference between the Vajrayana Primordial Buddha and a Creator God?
A: I understand the Primordial Buddha, also known as Buddha Samantabhadra, to be the ultimate reality, the realm of the Dharmakaya-- the space of emptiness--where all phenomena, pure and impure, are dissolved. This is the explanation taught by the Sutras and Tantras. However, in the context of your question, the tantric tradition is the only one which explains the Dharmakaya in terms of Inherent clear light, the essential nature of the mind; this would seem imply that all phenomena, samsara and nirvana, arise from this clear and luminous source. Even the New School of Translation came to the conclusion that the "state of rest" of a practitioner of the Great Yoga--Great Yoga implies here the state of the practitioner who has reached a stage in meditation where the most subtle experience of clear light has been realized--that for as long as the practitioner remains in this ultimate sphere he or she remains totally free of any sort of veil obscuring the mind, and is immersed in a state of great bliss.
We can say, therefore, that this ultimate source, clear light, is close to the notion of a Creator, since all phenomena, whether they belong to samsara or nirvana, originate therein. But we must be careful in speaking of this source, we must not be led into error. I do not mean chat there exists somewhere, there, a sort of collective clear light, analogous to the non-Buddhist concept of Brahma as a substratum. We must not be inclined to deify this luminous space. We must understand that when we speak of ultimate or inherent clear light, we are speaking on an individual level.
Likewise, when we speak of karma as the cause of the universe we eliminate the notion of a unique entity called karma existing totally independently. Rather, collective karmic impressions, accumulated individually, are at the origin of the creation of a world. When, in the tantric context, we say that all worlds appear out of clear light, we do not visualize this source as a unique entity, but as the ultimate clear light of each being. We can also, on the basis of its pure essence, understand this clear light to be the Primordial Buddha. All the stages which make up the life of each living being--death, the intermediate state, and rebirth--represent nothing more than the various manifestations of the potential of clear light. It is both the most subtle consciousness and energy. The more clear light loses its subtlety, the more your experiences take shape.
In this way, death and the intermediate state are moments where the gross manifestations emanating from clear light are reabsorbed. At death we return to that original source, and from there a slightly more gross state emerges to form the intermediate state preceding rebirth. At the stage of rebirth, clear light is apparent in a physical incarnation. At death we return to this source. And so on. The ability to recognize subtle clear light, also called the Primordial Buddha, is equivalent to realizing nirvana, whereas ignorance of the nature of clear light leaves us to wander in the different realms of samsaric existence.
This is how I understand the concept of the Primordial Buddha. It would be a grave error to conceive of it as an independent and autonomous existence from beginningless time. If we had to accept the idea of an independent creator, the explanations given in the Pramanavartika, the "Compendium of Valid Knowledge" written by Dharmakirti, and in the ninth chapter of the text by Shantideva, which completely refutes the existence per se of all phenomena, would be negated. This, in turn, would refute the notion of the Primordial Buddha. The Buddhist point of view does not accept the validity of affirmations which do not stand up to logical examination. If a sutra describes the Primordial Buddha as an autonomous entity, we must be able to interpret this assertion without taking it literally. We call this type of sutra an "interpretable" sutra.
Source: Philosophical questions on Creation -
Another good article regarding Buddhism and God, Frequently Asked Questions for Christians
...Part 1b: God the Creator
Master Shen Kai (my master) replied a question regarding whether other religions have affinity with Buddha (the picture is too big to be displayed completely in sgforums so you need to right click the picture, and click 'View Image' or 'Show Picture' to see it in full screen):
Having said all this however, there are two ways in which a Creator does appear in Buddhism after all. The first case is as the deity Brahma. Brahma was the all-powerful creator deity of Brahmanism (the religion that today is known as Hinduism). In Buddhism, Brahma appears when the Buddha attains enlightenment and is the one who convinces him to share his profound realization out of compassion for all suffering beings. Brahma is then viewed as the protector of the Dharma (or Truth taught by the Buddha).
Other times however, Brahma is shown to be no better than the Greek Zeus, the chief of the gods but not the actual creator of the universe. Though he tries to make others think that he is omnipotent and omniscient, he is actually just as much a part of the process of life as all other beings and not its originator. However, these less than flattering representations of Brahma are probably directed more towards the pretenses and limited conceptions of Brahma held by the priests of Brahma in the time of the Buddha than they are towards Brahma as an actual being.
This leads to the next problem. The conception of Brahma or God taught by the Brahmanist priests was very similar to that taught by most Christians today. But when you really look at the image being taught, it is not much different from the mythological Zeus. God is reduced by unreflective piety to a mere being among beings, even if he is a "Supreme Being." As a being among beings, God is no longer a transcendent reality but just another being caught up in the process. This very primitive and even idolatrous conception of God is what the Buddha was poking fun of at the expense of the priests who claimed to be God's representatives on earth who could decide who will be saved and who will be damned. In the Buddha's teachings, however, other images of Brahma come through which are much more mystical and edifying, this will be covered further on in this FAQ.
The second way in which a Creator appears is as the Dharmakaya Buddha. The Dharmakaya Buddha is the Truth-body or Reality-body of the Buddha. We are no longer speaking about an individualized man or woman, nor are we even talking about a pantheistic concept such as "Nature" or "Being." The Dharmakaya Buddha is the unfathomable mystical reality without which there would be no true nature of reality. In this sense, it is the ground or "creator" of all beings and things. It is the basis of the process of causes and conditions, but it is also beyond the process as well. That is because causes and conditions are merely the phenomenal aspect of the Dharmakaya. In other words, it is the Dharmakaya as experienced by our finite minds and senses. Now the Dharmakaya is not a being or person, but it is not impersonal either. It defies any and all such categories, but one could say that the Dharmakaya becomes personal in and through us and our interactions with each other and the world that we live in. In this way, the Dharmakaya becomes very personal through the manifestation of individuals like Shakyamuni and also as a loving spiritual presence underlying our every experience and especially in our own awakenings and acts of compassion. In Mahayana Buddhism this is discussed in terms of the three bodies of the Buddha. Buddha-nature is another term for the Dharmakaya in terms of its presence in our lives...
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I would suggest firstly you look into the basic teachings of Buddhism which underlies all the various traditions first: http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/basic-guide.htm, then you take your time to read up on the 3 Major Traditions of Buddhism: Theravada (Thai Buddhism belongs to this catergory), Mahayana (where I'm from), Vajrayana:Originally posted by Robobeng:Now, I would like to learn more Zen Buddhism, since it's more simple than the other forms of Buddhism, I heard. What can you guys tell me about Zen Buddism and how is it different other kinds of Buddism like Thai Buddhism?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theravada
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahayana
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vajrayana
You mentioned Zen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen -
Hi RoboBeng,
You are absolutely right! There is heaven and hell but they are not eternal. There are still certain mystical branch of Christianity that understand rebirth... such as the Rosicrucians.
Also about 'God'... It is not separated from you. The 'separation from God' is a metaphor ... It is actually referring to our 'sense of self' creating an illusion of an individual entity separated from the 'Source'. This is something abstract and transcendental and is not immediately understandable unless one has some 'awakening.' But ...be rest assured that there are many people who can testify to this understanding. -
hi eternal now
you really enjoy this religion, considering the amount of info you put on and the formatting on it... -
lol.. it's easy for me, just cut and paste since most of the things I have posted previouslyOriginally posted by airgrinder:hi eternal now
you really enjoy this religion, considering the amount of info you put on and the formatting on it... -
LOL Its hard not to enjoy this religionOriginally posted by airgrinder:hi eternal now
you really enjoy this religion, considering the amount of info you put on and the formatting on it...
Its the most compassionate, logical, non-dogmatic and scientific teaching one can ever find. -
Nah, christianity is more complicated than just heaven and hell. If you seek, you shall find. Maybe you can start by questioning where was jesus when he was 12- 30 years old? Why did the bible merely mentioned "wilderness"? WHere exactly did he go?Originally posted by Robobeng:I was a baptized Catholic however, the older I grow the more I cannot agree with Jesus Christ and the bible. It's not just the very strict rule book called the bible. As a Christian / Catholic, if you are good you go to heaven FOREVER if you are bad you go to hell FOREVER. You see what I'm concerned with is not whether I go to heaven or hell but it is FOREVER, ETERNALITY deal that is signed with it. Imagine you go to heaven, you can never ever misbehave, even a tiny little bit. If you go to hell, you suffer and burn forever. What's the point? It kills the fun doesn't it? So boring! And it's human nature to have fun, right?
Now, I would like to learn more Zen Buddhism, since it's more simple than the other forms of Buddhism, I heard. What can you guys tell me about Zen Buddism and how is it different other kinds of Buddism like Thai Buddhism?
I believe there's a God or a superior being out there who created all living but it doesn't have to be through Jesus and the Christian bible.
And no, there was nothing in the bible to suggest that you go to heaven or hell FOREVER. Theres more to it than that. You need to go deeper to understand what the bible really is. The bible is a book of love and metaphors. Any teachings which goes against the spirit of love is obviously not in tune with the bible. -
Hi,
It's me, 'robobeng'. Didn't like the 'robobeng' persona so changed it.
My new found Christian friends (from 'The Rock') always say you either go to heaven or hell eternally. If the former, you'll await the 'next coming' to fight for Christ Kingdom. When they first saw me, they said I looked 'disturbed'. They strongly believe that I'm being possessed by a demon, 'Fleurety' since I mentioned this name sounds very familiar to me. I know this demon's name through a heavy metal band. There many bands with other demon names but do not have anything on me. I do not know is it just because I like his name or he really have an impression on me. Anyway, the X'tians from The Rock are still waiting for my answer if i should surrender to Jesus and carry on with the exorcism.
Long before I know the X'tian friends from 'The Rock', I went to one Christian church by chance at CSC basement, and there I met an old family friend. He too thinks there's a demon possessed in me.
They prepared for an exorcism and he tried to cast out a so-called demon in me. However, I felt nothing during and after the exorcism, nothing at all. This Christian faith has left me very confused.
As a Buddhist, do you believe there are really demons or evil spirits who exist on this earth and possessed somebody? And could you explain why some people feel the full effects of an exorcism (like fainting, foaming at the mouth etc) while others felt nothing at all? -
Originally posted by Chuichi Koshiramaru:
yes we do believe there are bad spirits who wanted revenge due to the fact that the victim had in the past (during a human birth or something) offended the spirit. so they are allow to take vengence. since we believe in you reap what u sowed. but it's not unchangable. bad spirits can also forgive given the right exchange of conditions.
As a Buddhist, do you believe there are really demons or evil spirits who exist on this earth and possessed somebody? And could you explain why some people feel the full effects of an exorcism (like fainting, foaming at the mouth etc) while others felt nothing at all?
there's also another form of 'demon' or mara that are internal.
for more details, pls read:
http://www.ymba.org/BWF/bwf73.htm#types
52) Various Types of Demons
The author had just finished drafting the previous three sections when he was visited by a Dharma master who requested him to elaborate on the different types of demons for the benefit of fellow-cultivators. In the three previous sections he has, in fact, given a general explanation of the different realms, including those of demons. If the cultivator has understood the main idea, he can keep his mind undisturbed and counteract all harmful occurrences. However, to comply with this request, the author will describe the different types of demons in greater detail, as follows.
"Demons" are called "mara" in Sanskrit. In Chinese, the word has the connotation of "murderer" because demons usually plunder the virtues and murder the wisdom-life of cultivators. "Demons" also represent the destructive conditions or influences that cause practitioners to retrogress in their cultivation. Demons can render cultivators insane, making them lose their right thought, develop erroneous views, commit evil karma and end up sunk in the lower realms.
/\ -
My understanding of samsara is that it consist of six realms: deva, asura, human being, animal, hungry ghost and hell. So which realm do the demons belong?
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Originally posted by Chuichi Koshiramaru:
LOL... honestly if I were you I won't bother with such things
Hi,
It's me, 'robobeng'. Didn't like the 'robobeng' persona so changed it.
My new found Christian friends (from 'The Rock') always say you either go to heaven or hell eternally. If the former, you'll await the 'next coming' to fight for Christ Kingdom. When they first saw me, they said I looked 'disturbed'. They strongly believe that I'm being possessed by a demon, 'Fleurety' since I mentioned this name sounds very familiar to me. I know this demon's name through a heavy metal band. There many bands with other demon names but do not have anything on me. I do not know is it just because I like his name or he really have an impression on me. Anyway, the X'tians from The Rock are still waiting for my answer if i should surrender to Jesus and carry on with the exorcism.
Long before I know the X'tian friends from 'The Rock', I went to one Christian church by chance at CSC basement, and there I met an old family friend. He too thinks there's a demon possessed in me. They prepared for an exorcism and he tried to cast out a so-called demon in me. However, I felt nothing during and after the exorcism, nothing at all. This Christian faith has left me very confused. As a Buddhist, do you believe there are really demons or evil spirits who exist on this earth and possessed somebody? And could you explain why some people feel the full effects of an exorcism (like fainting, foaming at the mouth etc) while others felt nothing at all?
There are evil spirits, but not in the same context as Christianity. Evil spirits can possess people. But if you talking to us so normally I really doubt so Exorcism is by force trying to get rid of that possessing spirit. The spirit may resist, etc.
There is also Mara, the evil one, from the 6th heaven which comes to disturb the Buddha. Although the mara king has converted, his minions continues to disturb the Sangha and practitioners. -
If you want to try a new religion, it is better to try Wicca. It is currently on a revival after being suppressed for centuries.
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But Buddhism differs from such religions (as well as Shamanism, as well as folk Taoism etc) in the sense that we do not practise Buddhism just for the purpose of worldly benefits.Originally posted by iveco:If you want to try a new religion, it is better to try Wicca. It is currently on a revival after being suppressed for centuries.
Wicca is a valid path if you want to seek occult powers. Buddhism is a totally different thing. We do not seek occult powers (as they can impede the development of wisdom). It leads the realisation of our true nature and is the path out of 6 realms into the highest bliss of Nirvana. -
Wicca does not seek to cause harm to anything or anyone. It so happens that it is more flexible than CHristianity.
THe belief in a female creator is also more palatable to some quarters.
If it harm no one, do what you will.
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Yes this is a moral principle of the wicca. However what I am saying is Buddhism is totally different from Wicca (as what I have explained above)Originally posted by iveco:Wicca does not seek to cause harm to anything or anyone. It so happens that it is more flexible than CHristianity.
THe belief in a female creator is also more palatable to some quarters.
If it harm no one, do what you will. -
Ah, paganism.... Well, I once dabbled with 'Voudou' on my own and let tell you it's very not pleasant experience.
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Voodoo? THat is dark magic. I stay clear of that.Originally posted by Chuichi Koshiramaru:Ah, paganism.... Well, I once dabbled with 'Voudou' on my own and let tell you it's very not pleasant experience. -
Wicca on the hand is positive but it still deals with mysticism, right?
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Paganism and Occult. Not mysticism.. mysticism is a totally different thing.Originally posted by Chuichi Koshiramaru:Wicca on the hand is positive but it still deals with mysticism, right? -
Originally posted by Beyond Religion:
demon as in mara dwells in:
My understanding of samsara is that it consist of six realms: deva, asura, human being, animal, hungry ghost and hell. So which realm do the demons belong?
6) Paranirmitavasavartin (Dwelling of Mara).
http://web.singnet.com.sg/~alankhoo/DharmaRealm.htm#Deva
or same as :
(11)Devas Wielding Power over the Creation of Others (paranimmita-vasavatti deva) : These devas enjoy sense pleasures created by others for them. Mara, the personification of delusion and desire, lives here.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sagga/loka.html
how mara get into 6th heaven is bcos in the past he tot he cultivated superior grade of The Ten Wholesome Actions but due to his development of jealousy, selfish, egoistic and always want to win mind, the superior grade(shan ping) becomes lower grade (xia ping). almost like asuras.
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moreover, within our saha world there are not just One 6th heaven or Trayastrimsa of the desire realm but 1000 000 000!
4th jhana heaven = 1 big chiliocosm
3rd jhana heaven = 1 middle chiliocosm
2nd jhana heaven = 1 small chiliocosm = 1000 1st jhana heaven.
1 small chiliocosm = 1000 desire heaven.
1 big chiliocosm = 1000 000 000 desire heavens!
so we also have 1000 000 000 Jade heavenly Emperors.
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