is there bad karma if the law has caught up with the sinner
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pic this , u kill some1 and u gt punished by the law after receiving the death penalty or life imprisonment ( some country no life sentence )
he has been punished afterall , is there still bad karma . -
It doesn't just stop there. Often, worse karmic effect awaits in afterlife. He may even be reborn in hell for a very long time... depends on his karma.Originally posted by Taiwanpolitics:pic this , u kill some1 and u gt punished by the law after receiving the death penalty or life imprisonment ( some country no life sentence )
he has been punished afterall , is there still bad karma . -
No, sad to say it does not stop there. Mundane law may have had justice served but the karmic retribution will come to fruition at a later stage. How heavy the Karma will be depending on the motivation of the killer, the intensity of the killer's emotion and who was killed (recepient).Originally posted by Taiwanpolitics:pic this , u kill some1 and u gt punished by the law after receiving the death penalty or life imprisonment ( some country no life sentence )
he has been punished afterall , is there still bad karma .
The Karmic retribution for killing will usually have the doer been reborn in the 3 miserable realms or even if been reborn back into the human realm as a human, he/she will have a short lifespan.
Cherrio -
Originally posted by Taiwanpolitics:
when the cause action is sowed, the effect punishment is reap from the inside rather than from the outside.
pic this , u kill some1 and u gt punished by the law after receiving the death penalty or life imprisonment ( some country no life sentence )
he has been punished afterall , is there still bad karma .
u can also see karma as a form of guilt that emerge from the inside.
so unless you repent wholeheartedly, the karmic guilt will still be there.
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that means if he gets away unpunished , the karma is worst ?
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Not necessary... it could just mean that getting punished by law is not part of his karma, but nevertheless, next life he will suffer.Originally posted by Taiwanpolitics:that means if he gets away unpunished , the karma is worst ?
But anyway it would be impossible for us to speculate all the karmic cause and effects. It is much more complex than our human minds can understand. That is why the Buddha said that karma is one of the 4 inponderables, and if one speculates too much it may lead to insanity. -
I agree .Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Not necessary... it could just mean that getting punished by law is not part of his karma, but nevertheless, next life he will suffer.
But anyway it would be impossible for us to speculate all the karmic cause and effects. It is much more complex than our human minds can understand. That is why the Buddha said that karma is one of the 4 inponderables, and if one speculates too much it may lead to insanity.
i dowan get insane !!! -
that said other than the mara of the Paranirmitavasavartin heaven, mara also mean zhe "mo" as in torturing oneself. ie suffering is we do to ourself.
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Just curious:
With all these teachings of cause and effect, does one do a lot of good things in present life with the ulterior motive to gain better karma or better future lifes?
I am sure that perhaps 99% of the people out there are with this kind of thinking.
How will these people compare to the 1% of the people who do good things to fellow beings (in the eyes of all religions) without ever harbouring such intentions of gaining better karma? -
If you can remove the illusions that cloud your mind, you will naturally be compassionate.Originally posted by livspore2006:Just curious:
With all these teachings of cause and effect, does one do a lot of good things in present life with the ulterior motive to gain better karma or better future lifes?
I am sure that perhaps 99% of the people out there are with this kind of thinking.
How will these people compare to the 1% of the people who do good things to fellow beings (in the eyes of all religions) without ever harbouring such intentions of gaining better karma?
If you are living in illusions, you might actually be "happy" as you are living in "good illusions"; they are nevertheless illusions and you will soon go back to suffering and misery.
"do a lot of good things in present life with the ulterior motive to gain better karma or better future lifes" is an illusion after all... it is missing the point, missing the mark. That which you think that you are doing is "good" could very well be an illusionary "good" and not necessarily lead to better karma. -
Tks for the response.
What if the reality fact is that 99% of the people are living with the description of "illusion"? and the reality is that they cannot see beyond or cannot remove the "illusion of cause of effect; you reap what u sow" since they hv been hearing and learning from many generations before them.
Then how will they compare with the 1% of those who are "naturally compassionate" or who have never heard of "cause and effect; you reap what u sow"? -
The reality is like that and that is why the world is like that, so much "suffering" and "misery".Originally posted by livspore2006:Tks for the response.
What if the reality fact is that 99% of the people are living with the description of "illusion"? and the reality is that they cannot see beyond or cannot remove the "illusion of cause of effect; you reap what u sow" since they hv been hearing and learning from many generations before them.
Then how will they compare with the 1% of those who are "naturally compassionate" or who have never heard of "cause and effect; you reap what u sow"?
On an individual level, you can only speak for yourself. Nevertheless we can surmise that for many people, when they are suffering and miserable, instead of breaking free from the "illusions" that caused it, they create more illusions to try to cure their misery. Very soon their whole life becomes an intractable illusion. Layers of illusions pile on top of more illusions.
You need to be aware, you need to be mindful.
You need to be aware of the illusions in your own head. The instant that you are aware of an illusion, it no longer is an illusion! That which was an illusion is still there but is no longer an illusion! In that sense, it was never an illusion was it?
"cause and effect; you reap what u sow" are illusions and not illusions as explained in the preceding paragraph. This is an example of the application of Form is Emptiness and Emptiness is Form. -
In Buddhism, a true practitioner does not just cultivate worldly blessings, we do not cultivate "leaking blessings", but true merits. To cultivate merits and liberation we cannot attach to the notion of self, the notion of giving and the notion of others.Originally posted by livspore2006:Just curious:
With all these teachings of cause and effect, does one do a lot of good things in present life with the ulterior motive to gain better karma or better future lifes?
I am sure that perhaps 99% of the people out there are with this kind of thinking.
How will these people compare to the 1% of the people who do good things to fellow beings (in the eyes of all religions) without ever harbouring such intentions of gaining better karma?http://www.jenchen.org.sg/understa.htm
Real merits
Merits are consequences of the non-orignation and non-cessation of the mind. During the Tang Dynasty in ancient China, Emperor Liang Wu-Ti asked the patriarch Bodhidharma, "Venerable One, I have built many monasteries for the well being of the Sangha and I have also performed many virtuous deeds. What merits have I accumulated? Bodhidharma answered, "You have no merits." Why is that so? It is because when Emperor Liang Wu-Ti performed those acts of giving, he was attached to them. Thus, even though he had performed many virtuous deeds, because he had not cultivated the purity of his mind, he did not attain "non-origination and non-cessation". Therefore, his actions can only be considered as cultivation of blessings, not merits. Without liberation there are no merits. On the other hand, when there is liberation, all virtuous deeds will reap merits.http://www.jenchen.org.sg/vol6no4e.htm
For more information refer to the third chapter, Chapter III. Questions and Answers, from http://klein.zen.ru/english/Platform%20Sutra.htm
2. What should be the right frame of mind when giving?
Some years ago, there was group of Jen Chen Buddhism practitioners who were very committed to charity. They were overly enthusiastic about what they did and would leave behind their contact numbers and addresses to those whom they had helped. Several years later, a person whom they had helped before wrote them a letter to see if they could donate some money to help establish a career for his son who had just completed his national service with the army. They sought my assistance on the matter. I have always advised people that whether it is giving or performing acts of merit, they should not attach to the notion that they are performing acts of giving or merits. By leaving behind their contact numbers they were are attached to the notion that they are performing charity. Therefore, that person is asking them for more assistance. They began to understand what this means. Several weeks later, this group of charity workers informed me that they actually visited the family concerned and found the family to be better off than they were themselves!
Hence, in general giving only provides for the immediate emergency material needs and not necessary save people from their poverty. If there were so many people living in poverty in this world, it would not be possible to relieve everyone of their poverty and give them a prosperous life if they were to depend only on charity. Therefore, Jen Chen Buddhism advocates inspiring others to unfold their wisdom, for example, by providing guidance and training in the areas of vocational skills and knowledge, so that they have the means to improve their living conditions and life style.
3. Why must people give without attaching to the notion of giving?
Giving while attached to the notion of giving is also known as 'giving for appreciation'. It is like planting a fruit tree in a pot, just like a bonsai. The plant may bear only a couple of fruits each year for people to appreciate and praise, but not for consumption. Not only is there no merit, the reward of blessings is also negligible. It is therefore important that we truly understand the Buddha-dharma when we are learning and practising Buddhism.
A student once asked me about the ultimate method of cultivation in Buddhism. The answer is the method of letting go. Not only do we need to practise letting go now, the present, but also the past and future. We have to let go of all the distresses in our mind. Moreover, we have to let go of all notions of possession or attachments that we have. Even when we become Bodhisattvas or attain Buddhahood, the Buddha must be given up too. This is the only way of the true Buddha-Dharma.
Therefore, we have to remember to cultivate the method of non-attachment to the notion of giving when we give, maintain non-arising and non-cessation of the mind and cultivate the merit of 'not form and not emptiness'. Only thus are we treading on the Bodhisattva Path.
4. Is there any merit in giving?
During the time when the Patriarch Bodhidharma was in China, the Emperor Liang Wu-Ti paid him a visit and asked, "Venerable One, I have built many monasteries for the well being of the Sangha and I have also performed many virtuous deeds. What merits have I accumulated?"
Without any expression in his face, the Patriarch Bodhidharma replied, "No merits."
How could it be that after having done so much, Emperor Liang Wu-Ti had not accumulated any merit?
In Buddhism, merits refer to the non-arising and non-cessation of the mind. Therefore, when we are doing good deeds such as giving, we can only say that there are blessings associated with such deeds, but not merits. When a person who truly understands the Buddha-dharma gives without attaching to the notion of giving, he certainly does not expect other people to thank him. The Diamond Sutra states that if the magnanimity of a giver is as vast as the space, in future the reward of his blessings will be just as vast.
I remember when we were building the Manjusri Hall; a person contributed a certain sum of money. Two years later, this person visited the Manjusri Hall and went around searching for where his name might be inscribed. I explained to him that many people had contributed financially, materials and other efforts to the building. Since nobody had requested for his or her names to be inscribed, it would be awkward to inscribe just his name. He didn't understand and instead became slanderous. Somebody even remarked that he might be better off giving to those temples where deities are worshipped as they will inscribe his name in the temples. These were temples of superstitious beliefs. He really did so and was no longer interested in learning and practising Buddhism. He no longer seeks to unfold his wisdom. This person was so attached to his act of giving and had unwittingly ended his wisdom life. It is such a pity that he chose to believe in superstition rather than be an authentic practitioner of Buddhism. -
Originally posted by livspore2006:
Then hopefully someone can tell them true Buddhadharma. There is so much misinformation about Buddhism out there.
Tks for the response.
What if the reality fact is that 99% of the people are living with the description of "illusion"? and the reality is that they cannot see beyond or cannot remove the "illusion of cause of effect; you reap what u sow" since they hv been hearing and learning from many generations before them.
Then how will they compare with the 1% of those who are "naturally compassionate" or who have never heard of "cause and effect; you reap what u sow"? -
There's hardly any misinformation out there, just that buddhists tend to delude themselves into thinking the general public are misinformed.
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You are deluding yourself in thinking that the general public are very informed.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:There's hardly any misinformation out there, just that buddhists tend to delude themselves into thinking the general public are misinformed.
Most so called "Buddhists" are not even Buddhist to begin with (more along the line of chinese folk practitioners), they know very little about Buddhist teachings, and what they know are usually distorted. -
i was just wondering why u always sound like picking needle out of a haystack ,so meticulously want to find the flaws in an religion , it shows urOriginally posted by Herzog_Zwei:There's hardly any misinformation out there, just that buddhists tend to delude themselves into thinking the general public are misinformed.
heart isnt as magnamious as in your real life which everyone CAN BE
thank you
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Tks for the detailed explanation.
Hmmm... based on the explanation, can we extend to say that those donations that we give to charities (eg. flag days, old NKF or Ren Ci) are just counted as blessings and not merits since there were motives behind these gifts eg. tax benefits?
Also, for all the artistes who perform at the old NKF and the current Ren Ci shows, their performances are mere blessings and not merits if they performed for an objective of appreciation, whether for themselves or others? -
Originally posted by livspore2006:
That's right. But for me, I never think about all those benefits. I just donate out of compassion.
Tks for the detailed explanation.
Hmmm... based on the explanation, can we extend to say that those donations that we give to charities (eg. flag days, old NKF or Ren Ci) are just counted as blessings and not merits since there were motives behind these gifts eg. tax benefits?Also, for all the artistes who perform at the old NKF and the current Ren Ci shows, their performances are mere blessings and not merits if they performed for an objective of appreciation, whether for themselves or others?
If they perform due to compassion for their patients, I think that's fine. -
It also shows that you as a buddhist isn't as open minded as you claim to be.Originally posted by bohiruci:i was just wondering why u always sound like picking needle out of a haystack ,so meticulously want to find the flaws in an religion , it shows ur
heart isnt as magnamious as in your real life which everyone CAN BE
thank you 