something to ask
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Mmm when i was listening to Avril Lavigne - Keep Holding On, a thought stuck into me.. im wondering.. when the karmic condition is right, it is okay and something even beneficial to hold on to something?
But we all know that things and karmic conditions changes and before we realise that the condition is there for us to let go... so if we still hold on to it.. it becomes an attachment?
so this is how attachment came about...
All sorts of attachment to pain ( as in u can't forget the things that they have done or someone ), pleasures ( ur fav pastimes ) all distracted the mind from living in the present moment.
I find out it is very true.. esp when im mugging now for the exam.. im attached to utube now. Give me some pleasures but ultimately fleeting
eh sorry AEN, i re-edit it before reading ur posting.. -
Do what you need to do.. but inwardly remain liberated.. then there is no problems. Be like a mirror, in which appearances come and go without leaving a trace yet clearly reflecting (mindful, aware) everything as it is.. in this way there is no need to pick up something to let go later.Originally posted by Isis:Mmm when i was listening to Avril Lavigne - Keep Holding On, a thought stuck into me.. im wondering.. when the karmic condition is right, it is okay and something even beneficial to hold on to something?
But we all know that things and karmic conditions changes and before we realise that the condition is there for us to let go... so if we still hold on to it.. it becomes an attachment?
By all means attend to your duties. Action, in which you are not
emotionally involved and which is beneficial and does not cause
suffering will not bind you. You may be engaged in several directions
and work with enormous zest, yet remain inwardly free and quiet, with
a mirror like mind, which reflects all, without being affected. (50)
~ Nisargadatta Maharaj -
Originally posted by Isis:
Huh... theres no need to change ur post after seeing my post what..
Mmm when i was listening to Avril Lavigne - Keep Holding On, a thought stuck into me.. im wondering.. when the karmic condition is right, it is okay and something even beneficial to hold on to something?
But we all know that things and karmic conditions changes and before we realise that the condition is there for us to let go... so if we still hold on to it.. it becomes an [b]attachment?
so this is how attachment came about...
All sorts of attachment to pain ( as in u can't forget the things that they have done or someone ), pleasures ( ur fav pastimes ) all distracted the mind from living in the present moment.
I find out it is very true.. esp when im mugging now for the exam.. im attached to utube now. Give me some pleasures but ultimately fleeting
eh sorry AEN, i re-edit it before reading ur posting..[/b]
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i say "before"...
tsk tsk not mindful enuff -
OhOriginally posted by Isis:i say "before"...
tsk tsk not mindful enuff
Yes what you said is very true...
By the way when studying, it's best to turn off the computer.
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eh habitual tendency.. someone just told me that it is aso habitual tendency and not just our mental defilement that cause mental suffering..
heh have no enuff will power ....
btw mental suffering is caused by urself and not by others right? AEN, can u share with what u know abt this if u know ? -
IMHO, would appreciate others comments too,Originally posted by Isis:eh habitual tendency.. someone just told me that it is aso habitual tendency and not just our mental defilement that cause mental suffering..
heh have no enuff will power ....
btw mental suffering is caused by urself and not by others right? AEN, can u share with what u know abt this if u know ?
Certain habitual tendencies are good... and not necessarily all habits are bad. However most habitual tendencies are also a form of mental defilements... they are caused by a form of attachment that has deeply rooted in our consciousness. Habitual tendencies... which can be a whole different range of different habits... are usually due to our mental defilements of craving and attachment.
Regarding mental suffering caused by 'myself'... At first hand it seems like its the OTHER party that is causing MY mental suffering... but when we look deeper we realise that this is due to our fundamental dualistic assumption, that there is a self and other... and the self gets hurt by the other. This dualistic, egoic assumption is what we call our basic ignorance... and we are completely bonded by this habitual, karmic momentum or karmic propensities... such that we are bonded to the "I" thought not only in everyday lives but lifetime after lifetime. We invest in the "I" thought all the time because we do not know about liberation... we do not know about anatta (no-self).. and so we identify with images and ideas and stories of "who I am" and constantly try to protect this image of "who I am" or perhaps the "other party" failed to give "who I am" happiness, fulfillment, or a more complete sense of self... and we suffer when "who I am" got hurt by the other party or our demands are not met. If we dwell on this kind of ignorant dualistic thinking... there can be no end to suffering. But if we were to deeply investigate... there really is no self to be found. 'Self' is merely just a fictitious notion of the mind.
If there is no identification, we are completely transparent, there is just resting in whatever is happening without dwelling in mental content.. just thoughts, emotions, bodily sensations arising and passing with no agent experiencing and suffering from them. What is it like? First we have to ask.. what is the "me" in reality? Like Toni Packer said... Now, is there such an entity as me or I? Or is it just like the weather - an ongoing, ever-changing stream of ideas, images, memories, projections, likes and dislikes, creation and destruction, that thought keeps calling I, me, Toni, and thereby solidifying what is evanescent? What am I really, truly, and what do I merely think and believe I am? Rather than dwelling on our thoughts and mental suffering on the assumption of a separate self that is getting hurt, can we just watch the extraordinary phenomena, or 'clouds of the 5 skhandas' unfold on its own? The difficulty is not insurmountable. Wholeness, our true being, is here all the time, like the sun behind the clouds. Light is here in spite of cloud cover. And when we are truly transparent, how can we be hurt? Our Buddha Nature is sometimes described as space-like... can space be hurt?
But as Thusness said this supposed bond, in reality doesn't exist anywhere... it is really just the ignorance itself. It is really that lack of clarity itself (and can still persist even after glimpses of no-self until the insight has penetrated deeply enough and stabilised). Mental suffering is caused by identification with the self... which is called the ego. However there is something important worth mentioning...
Ego is a process of
identification, not a thing in and of itself. It is like a bad habit, but it doesn't exist as something that can be found. This is important, as this bad habit can quickly co-opt the language of egolessness and come up with phrases as absurd as: “I will destroy my ego!” But, not being a thing, it cannot be destroyed, but by understanding our bare experience, our minds, the process of identification can stop. Any thoughts with “I,” “me,” “my” and “mine” in them should be understood to be just thoughts which come and go. This is not something you can talk yourself out of. You have to perceive things as they are to stop this process.
~ Dharma Dan
So as you can see... it's the bad habit of ignorance
Now to go back to your question is mental suffering caused by myself... from the viewpoint of Anatta it is neither caused by myself nor others... there never was a dualistic relation in the first place.. neither is it caused by the 'ego' as if it has inherent existence... but only ignorant dualistic identification, apparently reacting to 'being hurt by others', and when this is seen for what it is rather than continued being identified, there is liberation.
Do also read: What is this me? by Toni Packer -
I've got the best solution for u: stop listening to that sh*t u call music and listen to some REAL music. Not f*ckin Avril Lavigne.
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Originally posted by jondizzle foshizzle:I've got the best solution for u: stop listening to that sh*t u call music and listen to some REAL music. Not f*ckin Avril Lavigne.
What real music? How about some Metal? I sure do like them...
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Real Music= Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden, NOFX, Guns N Roses, Skid Row, Cinderella, Deep Purple, W.A.S.P., Van Halen, etc.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
What real music? How about some Metal? I sure do like them... -
i tend to move on.. from different genres. Ahh actually her song isn't that bad lah.Originally posted by jondizzle foshizzle:Real Music= Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden, NOFX, Guns N Roses, Skid Row, Cinderella, Deep Purple, W.A.S.P., Van Halen, etc. -
Nice.. anyway I noticed "real music" is always referred to metal, without fail... but I agreeOriginally posted by jondizzle foshizzle:Real Music= Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden, NOFX, Guns N Roses, Skid Row, Cinderella, Deep Purple, W.A.S.P., Van Halen, etc. -
that will depends on what u define as music
my Real Music is rhythmic and culture
like classical music and orchestra music
and retro ,techno and rave music
not really the clashes of metal -
I think.. People tend to causes unnecessary suffering for themselves. Most of us are actually born quite fortunate in singapore; not suffering from poverty or hunger and born healthy. Since we are actually living in a quite an alright environment, what is then the cause of this mental suffering and dissatisfaction/unhappiness that we are feeling now?
I think.. when we hurt others, we are actually hurting ourselves. It is actually not the person or thing that cause the pain and suffering to you. It is own anger/delusion/greed aka defilement that arises in you that causes the mental and emotional disturbances.
So where does this defilement arises from? Habitual tendency to react in a certain matters or should i say it is the karmic seeds that has been imprinted in your mind since aeons of lifetime. It just needs the right condition to present for the defilement to arise and disappear.
I remember replying this in another thread in BMB
I'm still learning buddhism. Please consider my words carefully.Originally posted by Isis:I think firstly, you have to work with yourself. Reflect on your past wrong
intention, actions and speech and seek repentance to the Buddha.
Secondly, when you are feeling hurt and anger.
Mayb u are attached more to the feeling of "me"
"why they hurt me so?"
"Why they like that one?"
"why i cant let go?"
when u put I n Me n enlarge it..u will feel the pain.
which is not induced by others but urself
Try it......
As the kalama sutra stated>
Rely not on the teacher/person, but on the teaching. Rely not on the words of the teaching, but on the spirit of the words. Rely not on theory, but on experience.Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. Do not believe anything because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything because it is written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and
elders. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and the benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it."
- the Buddha -
Eh what u meant isn't easy for a deluded sentient being like me ha ha.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Do what you need to do.. but inwardly remain liberated.. then there is no problems. Be like a mirror, in which appearances come and go without leaving a trace yet clearly reflecting (mindful, aware) everything as it is.. in this way there is no need to pick up something to let go later.
By all means attend to your duties. Action, in which you are not
emotionally involved and which is beneficial and does not cause
suffering will not bind you. You may be engaged in several directions
and work with enormous zest, yet remain inwardly free and quiet, with
a mirror like mind, which reflects all, without being affected. (50)
~ Nisargadatta Maharaj
I think... one has to realise non-self, impermance and emptiness in order to reach there kind of mental/emotional natural state.
Though there are different stages of realisation on there matter.... which i think another highly-cultivated forumer has said.
BTW may i know if u know what is the connection between emptiness and non-self? When one realises emptiness, will one see non-self? When one realise non-self, will one realise emptiness? okay, just asking.. though i think it is abit too chim... -
mm i havent see the non-self yet as i haven't start the insight meditation thingy but i have already see so much sufferings caused by this notion called self. Yeap, i think people need to understand what is non-self in buddhism to understand this passageOriginally posted by An Eternal Now:IMHO, would appreciate others comments too,
Certain habitual tendencies are good... and not necessarily all habits are bad. However most habitual tendencies are also a form of mental defilements... they are caused by a form of attachment that has deeply rooted in our consciousness. Habitual tendencies... which can be a whole different range of different habits... are usually due to our mental defilements of craving and attachment.
Regarding mental suffering caused by 'myself'... At first hand it seems like its the OTHER party that is causing MY mental suffering... but when we look deeper we realise that this is due to our fundamental dualistic assumption, that there is a self and other... and the self gets hurt by the other. This dualistic, egoic assumption is what we call our basic ignorance... and we are completely bonded by this habitual, karmic momentum or karmic propensities... such that we are bonded to the "I" thought not only in everyday lives but lifetime after lifetime. We invest in the "I" thought all the time because we do not know about liberation... we do not know about anatta (no-self).. and so we identify with images and ideas and stories of "who I am" and constantly try to protect this image of "who I am" or perhaps the "other party" failed to give "who I am" happiness, fulfillment, or a more complete sense of self... and we suffer when "who I am" got hurt by the other party or our demands are not met. If we dwell on this kind of ignorant dualistic thinking... there can be no end to suffering. But if we were to deeply investigate... there really is no self to be found. 'Self' is merely just a fictitious notion of the mind. -
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I don't think I can agree with that...Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Certain habitual tendencies are good... and not necessarily all habits are bad.
If you see two people behaving the same way over and over again, one of them *can be having a habit* and the other not!
"habit" means you do it *without thought* and you are *compelled*
To be *empty* is to be free. You might see a free person behaving (or doing) some things repeatedly in a certain way but that *can be* *is not* considered to be *out of habit* because he is free to do it any other way.
If he is doing it in an *unmindful* *unaware* manner *out of habit* that is not wise.
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1. If it "Give me some pleasures", that is good. Whether it is "ultimately fleeting" or not is immaterial because "everything" is "ultimately fleeting"!Originally posted by Isis:I find out it is very true.. esp when im mugging now for the exam.. im attached to utube now. Give me some pleasures but ultimately fleeting
If you should be studying or sleeping, then whether youtube "Give me some pleasures" or not is "bad" because you must always be mindful and aware of what is the better thing to be doing at any given moment.
If the better thing that you should be doing is watching "you-tube" and instead, you are studying, then "studying" is "bad".
So you see, the whole point of *emptiness* is to be free from "good" and "bad" for nothing in this world is dualistic - good "OR" bad. Everything is good "AND" bad. Not one, not two.
Exams from "A" levels and below (in Singapore at least) should be tackled from a *practice makes perfect* attitude.
What does that translate into? Do your *ten year series*! "Forget" about studying! Refer to your text book if doing your *ten year series* you have a problem completing the questions. -
How about forget everything and take it easy in life. You just want me to work hard and become rich dont you.Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:1. If it "Give me some pleasures", that is good. Whether it is "ultimately fleeting" or not is immaterial because "everything" is "ultimately fleeting"!
If you should be studying or sleeping, then whether youtube "Give me some pleasures" or not is "bad" because you must always be mindful and aware of what is the better thing to be doing at any given moment.
If the better thing that you should be doing is watching "you-tube" and instead, you are studying, then "studying" is "bad".
So you see, the whole point of *emptiness* is to be free from "good" and "bad" for nothing in this world is dualistic - good "OR" bad. Everything is good "AND" bad. Not one, not two.
Exams from "A" levels and below (in Singapore at least) should be tackled from a *practice makes perfect* attitude.
What does that translate into? Do your *ten year series*! "Forget" about studying! Refer to your text book if doing your *ten year series* you have a problem completing the questions. -
In a way, everyone wants to become rich... but what *price* are you willing to *pay* to become *rich*?Originally posted by Eric Cartman:How about forget everything and take it easy in life. You just want me to work hard and become rich dont you.
To focus on *becoming rich* can have the opposite effect and you become poorer instead.
It is better to focus on becoming a *better* person and a *happier* person and money will chase after you... money must come to you and not the other way round... *you do not chase after money*.
Take Bill Gates for example. You think when he started Microsoft, his motivation was, *I want to become the richest man in the world."?
That was a *by-product*. That he became the richest man in the world was a *by-product*. -
This basically sums up my view.Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:In a way, everyone wants to become rich... but what *price* are you willing to *pay* to become *rich*?
To focus on *becoming rich* can have the opposite effect and you become poorer instead.
It is better to focus on becoming a *better* person and a *happier* person and money will chase after you... money must come to you and not the other way round... *you do not chase after money*.
Take Bill Gates for example. You think when he started Microsoft, his motivation was, *I want to become the richest man in the world."?
That was a *by-product*. That he became the richest man in the world was a *by-product*. -
wait wait wait... there is more... hahaha...Originally posted by Eric Cartman:This basically sums up my view. -
LOLOriginally posted by AndrewPKYap:wait wait wait... there is more... hahaha... -
Originally posted by Isis:
IMO and from a spiritual practice point of view, any form of holdings is pain.
Mmm when i was listening to Avril Lavigne - Keep Holding On, a thought stuck into me.. im wondering.. when the karmic condition is right, it is okay and something even beneficial to hold on to something?
But we all know that things and karmic conditions changes and before we realise that the condition is there for us to let go... so if we still hold on to it.. it becomes an [b]attachment?
so this is how attachment came about...
All sorts of attachment to pain ( as in u can't forget the things that they have done or someone ), pleasures ( ur fav pastimes ) all distracted the mind from living in the present moment.
I find out it is very true.. esp when im mugging now for the exam.. im attached to utube now. Give me some pleasures but ultimately fleeting
eh sorry AEN, i re-edit it before reading ur posting..[/b]
Many times attachments are not obvious and we never realized how strong our attachments are until we are hit by crisis. This is what I experienced during financial crisis in 1997. Before that I thought I was not that attached to $$$ but when threaten by bankruptcy all sort of thoughts arised, including very evil ones.
To live in present moment from a practice perspective is to be in naked awareness, where awareness is completely clear, non-dual and unmolested. It is not seeking anything and awareness rest in its orginality. Puting this mind state into daily activities is known as non-action and does not carry karma and this is the difficult part. This is different from those '1 second manager' sort of concepts that train one to be effective and efficient in achieving goals.
With regards to ur exams and utube example, it is a matter of being focus that requires u to 'jing and ding' in order to concentrate. In this case both are still attachment. If u study with ur best effort yet not affected by the the outcome, you are non-attached. -
What if u need to hold on such as " to fight sleeplyness".. it couldn't be bad?Originally posted by Thusness:IMO and from a spiritual practice point of view, any form of holdings is pain.
Where does attachment arises? It is from ignorance -> where the notion of this "self" arises?
Attachment disturbs the peace of the mind, despite the attachment is to pleasure? and oh yes thusness, the jing and ding state that u mentioned struck me a chord. I didn't realise that attachment to such a state isn't good too.