Supernormal Powers and Forms of Direct Knowledge
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Hello,
I am very interested in developing a discussion thread with people interested in understanding how the mind works and researching the Supernormal Powers and Forms of Direct Knowledge included in the teachings and more specifically Path of Purification--Bhikku Bodhi translation chapters XII and XIII. This area of the teachings are of great interest to me because of personal meditation and daily experiences.
I've posted three questions to Tricycle Magazine's "Ask Jack" a column in every issue where the community can ask a teacher questions and vote for the questions they would most like to have answered in the next issue. Summer 2007, Jack Kornfield will answer the top 10 questions voted by the community....here's a link to the questions.. http://tricycle.zooleo.com/#f:s_TABS?n:0?n:9 a login is required to vote and and is easily obtainable and free. I've included the questions and related comments in the text below... I look forward to hearing from everyone who is interested in these questions and related comments to Supernormal Powers and Forms of Direct Knowledge creating a strong discussion forum. I would also be very grateful, if you are interested, to please take a few moments to vote for these questions in the Tricycle Magazine “Ask Jack”. I'm very interested in hearing everyone's response and bringing attention to these teachings, related sciences and legal issues.
The questions are limited to 250 characters including whitespace. For each question, there is a comment elaborating on the question.
Question 1:
Can you confirm Supernormal Powers& Direct Knowledge PathofPur(Ch XII& ChXIII)are taught and how SpiritRock can/does use these capabilities for: Interviews; Sangha; change experience.Anonymous submittal resolving issues allowing dharma for all beings
Comments 1:
Expanding upon the 250 character space limitation, I'll elaborate my question in comments. Chapter XII “The Supernormal Powers (Iddhividha-niddesa)” and Chapter XIII “Other Direct-Knowledges (Abhinna-niddesa)” contain instructions training the mind using different kasinas and definitions for success developing the supernormal powers and forms direct knowledge. Examples include: Divine Eye, Divine Ear (Ch. XIII, P.1), Mind Made Body including Transformations of Mind Made Body into other forms(Ch. XII P.130-139), Travelling through air (Ch. XII P.39,40), Travelling through walls (Ch. XII P.87) and Penetration of Minds (Ch. XIII P.8 ). Elegant Universe: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/ explains string theory which may become the Physics explanation for these capabilities of the mind. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/program.html Brain Greene’s 3 1-hour special is an excellent explanation of String Theory and includes some of the above mentioned capabilities of the mind as examples.
Given the teachings include instruction to train the mind developing these capabilities, have Spirit Rock teachers developed these skills. Are these capabilities of mind used by teachers to teach the dharma? I can understand how a teacher having this capability could help meditatorÂ’s see their experience more clearly and possibly through Mind Made Body with Transformation, experience states of consciousness which may not have arisen naturally in the meditatorÂ’s ecperience.
Comments 2:
I submitted this question yesterday and was surprised to see 4 with only three logins. Please see comments and more specifically the second comment for question 21 where I learned if I boost my own question the number is incremented without the login being displayed in the Who Boosted tab/view. This phenomenon is occuring with this question where 3 logins are displayed and I did not do a second boost. I wanted to bring this to your attention given security of the user login. Is using the question's author login to boost the only way to increment the votes and not display the corresponding login? Is this behavior the intent of the communication forum?
Question 2:
Can you explain how Supernormal Powers and Forms of Direct Knowledge can effect change in awareness including perception, feelings, thoughts, the physical body and pain . Anonymous submittal to resolve issues allowing the dharma for all beings
Comments:
Expanding upon the 250 characters defining the question, I’ve been researching personal experience—during meditation and daily life—which I hypothesize to be related to the use of Supernormal Power. Meditation experiences include cessation of all mental faculty, awareness of form without boundaries and seeing the rise and fall of each sense door object with just over 2 years meditation practice. Daily life experiences include, channeling speech and the removal of bodily pain sensation from personal experience. I’m beginning to read Bhikkhu Bodhi’s translation of the Abhidhamma to develop an understanding of the mind, consciousness and how the Supernormal Power can be used to modify another’s experience. Realizing there may be space requirements for responding to questions, can you describe the components of awareness and their relationship to different types of consciousness and how the Supernormal Power can effect change. Does this change occur in the sense consciousness prior to awareness? Relating this to personal experience, if bodily pain is an object of the body sense door and the Mind Made Body with Transformation can alter the awareness of the body sense, does the Mind Made Body with Transformation remove the bodily pain from the awareness of my experience and therefore it becomes a constituent of the awareness of the Supernormal Power possessor.
Comments 2:
Earlier this morning, I accidently boosted my own question. Having done this, I reviewed the "Who Boosted" tab/view and noticed there is only one login displayed..mine. I wanted to bring this to your attention in case this is not the intended behavior.
Question 3:
As a Spirit Rock founding teacher, can you explain how you would resolve issues related to retreat experiences influenced by Supernormal Powers. Anonymous submittal to resolve issues allowing the dharma for all beings.
Comments:
I’d like to expand upon the 250 character limitation for questions… Can you include in your answer how you as founding teacher of Spirit Rock, would protect meditators, teachers, staff and all beings from the use of Supernormal Power without consent. Understanding the difficulty to “prove” the use of Supernormal Power effecting their personal experience and the violation of constitutional rights committed by the Supernormal Power possessor, would you agree the Supernormal Power possessor should lose their constitutional rights and have the mind “read” through the use of Mind Penetrating Mind (Path of Purification –Bhikku Bodhi translation Chapter XIII paragraph 8 ) capability. Do you feel this information should be admissible in court of law? Do you feel the Supernormal Power possessor should lose their 5th Amendment right not to incriminate themselves. How would you work towards resolving this type of conflict? Do you see a difference between the use of Supernormal Power to “see all things clearly” and to “create change in another beings experience”; ie alter the causes and conditions defining experience. -
Certain things it's best not to discuss in public forum.. though some other forummers may have valuable experiences to share... for some people may not be exactly suitable.
BTW you have contacts with the teachers at Spirit Rock? Why dont you talk to them yourself personally?
P.S... supernatural powers mostly serves a distraction especially prior to attaining deep insights into our true nature. My dharma teacher forbids his students from cultivating this prior to attaining wisdom. This is because of subtle attachments.. there is an attachment and seeking of the appearances and phenomena caused/created by this supernatural abilities... or perhaps wanting to know more things through psychically... which hinders one from developing true wisdom. My Taiwanese dharma teacher also used to suffer from using supernatural powers for the wrong purpose... almost lost his life.. this is another story, though.. but the moral of the story is without wisdom these powers may even be harmful. However as Thusness said, when one realises Emptiness, supernatural powers are understood directly to be the activities of non-locality. But Thusness also said... (for those who havent attained wisdom) it can even cause more delusions... as u may sunk into deeper illusion into the realm that u have created without knowing.. or some people for example may visit other realms and become attached... many other examples. -
May I begin by expressing gratitude for your response to the posting. I would like to respect your opening comments and not continue to detail personal experiences and questions I have related to your posting if you feel it is inappropriate. There are additional questions and information I would like to communicate and can wait to receive direction from yourself before proceeding. I agree with your comments regarding the attachment to desire for the Supernormal Power and Forms of Direct Knowledge. My posting and inquiry to continue discussion is not rooted in desire for these capabilities of mind, rather to understand conditions which have created experiences during retreat, meditation and daily life unexplainable through “natural” phenomenon. If it is decided to be inappropriate content for the forum, would it be possible to continue using a private email discussion thread.
With Metta for All Beings,
Zenaban. -
Certainly you would learn faster than others by reading the minds and memories of other people who's knowledge will increase your understanding of things
Most people feared powers will be misused which is always the case
If you don't test it how you know it's real? -
A forum friend told me about Russel Targ just now, it's quite interesting how he explains non-locality and links it with these psychic phenomena. He is looking forward to getting the book 'The End of Suffering', which contains many Buddhist teachings as well. Here's an interview with him, it doesnt answer your questions you asked, but anyway thought you might be interested... http://www.consciousmedianetwork.com/members/rtarg.htmOriginally posted by [email protected]:May I begin by expressing gratitude for your response to the posting. I would like to respect your opening comments and not continue to detail personal experiences and questions I have related to your posting if you feel it is inappropriate. There are additional questions and information I would like to communicate and can wait to receive direction from yourself before proceeding. I agree with your comments regarding the attachment to desire for the Supernormal Power and Forms of Direct Knowledge. My posting and inquiry to continue discussion is not rooted in desire for these capabilities of mind, rather to understand conditions which have created experiences during retreat, meditation and daily life unexplainable through “natural” phenomenon. If it is decided to be inappropriate content for the forum, would it be possible to continue using a private email discussion thread.
With Metta for All Beings,
Zenaban.The End of Suffering
(Running time = 36 mins)
Regina first interviewed Russell Targ almost 21 years ago just before he was leaving for the Soviet Union to take part in an experiment with Brezhnev's psychic healer, in what was to become a well known documentation on the efficacy of remote viewing for military purposes.
Russell Targ is a physicist and author who has devoted much of his professional career to the research of the human capacity for psychic ability. In 1972, he co-founded the Stanford Research Institute's federally-funded program that investigated psychic abilities in humans. The program provided invaluable information and techniques to various government intelligence agencies, including the DIA, the CIA, NASA, and Army Intelligence. In his ten years with the program, Targ co-published his findings in some of the most prestigious scientific journals. He is the co-author, with Jane Katra, of five books about psychic abilities, two of which are: Miracles of Mind: Exploring Non-local Consciousness & Spiritual Healing, and The Heart of the Mind: How to Experience God Without Belief.
Russell was also quite active in the development of the laser and its various applications, having written over fifty articles on advanced laser research. He is a Senior Member of the Institute of Electrical Engineers and has received two NASA awards for inventions and contributions in laser and laser communications. Recently retiring from his position as senior staff scientist at Lockheed Martin, Russell now devotes his time to ESP research and offering workshops on remote viewing and spiritual healing.
In an abstract from a research paper, Russell said, "Since ancient times spiritual teachers have described paths and practices that a person could follow to achieve health, happiness, and peace of mind. A considerable body of recent research indicates that any kind of spiritual practice is likely to improve ones prognosis for recovering from a serious illness. Many of these approaches to spirituality involve learning to quiet the mind, rather than adhering to a prescribed religious belief. These meditative practices are inherent aspects of Buddhism, Hinduism, mystical Christianity, Kabalistic Judaism, Sufism, and other mystic paths. What is indicated in the subtext of these teachings is that as one learns to quiet his or her mind, one is likely to encounter psychic-like experiences or perceptions. For example, in The Sutras of Patanjali, the Hindu master tells us that on the way to transcendence we may experience many kinds of amazing visions, such as the ability to see into the distance, or into the future; and to diagnose illnesses, and also to cure them. However, we are admonished not to become attached to these abilities - that they are mere phenomena standing as stumbling blocks on the path to enlightenment. In this paper, I will describe my recent experience in teaching remote viewing at three workshops in Italy, in which we emphasize expanded awareness of who we are, rather than an ability to find car keys and parking spaces. Our spiritual approach, did not interfere with all three of these groups demonstrating highly significant remote viewing in a double-blind setting." -
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
I have briefly gone through the book. It is a good read. The author is a reputable scientist as well as an authority in the field of psychical research; a figure powerful enough to thrust conviction in readers of his research theories. I enjoy reading the book very much though it does not have what I want – the missing link between non-duality and non-locality. I also sense that in his attempt to demystify the non-local possibilities, he may have unknowingly relaxed his scientific objectivity so do read with an unbaised mind.
A forum friend told me about Russel Targ just now, it's quite interesting how he explains non-locality and links it with these psychic phenomena. He is looking forward to getting the book 'The End of Suffering', which contains many Buddhist teachings as well. Here's an interview with him, it doesnt answer your questions you asked, but anyway thought you might be interested... http://www.consciousmedianetwork.com/members/rtarg.htm -
I see.. thanks for sharing, it does sound interestingOriginally posted by Thusness:I have briefly gone through the book. It is a good read. The author is a reputable scientist as well as an authority in the field of psychical research; a figure powerful enough to thrust conviction in readers of his research theories. I enjoy reading the book very much though it does not have what I want – the missing link between non-duality and non-locality. I also sense that in his attempt to demystify the non-local possibilities, he may have unknowingly relaxed his scientific objectivity so do read with an unbaised mind.
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I'm just beginning to read "Distant Mental Influence" http://www.espresearch.com/mentalinfluence/ and am quite impressed with the introduction..He outwardly acknowledges the lack of physics support for these capabilities of mind. This brings to mind Brian Greene's Elegant Universe and research with string theory--currently under development. The introduction includes a brief discussion of the global consciousness and the site http://noosphere.princeton.edu/ describes a project illustrating the effects of group attention/consciousness on Random Event Generators placed around the globe..I'm not sure how conclusive the data is although it is interesting to learn about the different research projects related to consciousness.Originally posted by Thusness:I have briefly gone through the book. It is a good read. The author is a reputable scientist as well as an authority in the field of psychical research; a figure powerful enough to thrust conviction in readers of his research theories. I enjoy reading the book very much though it does not have what I want – the missing link between non-duality and non-locality. I also sense that in his attempt to demystify the non-local possibilities, he may have unknowingly relaxed his scientific objectivity so do read with an unbaised mind.
"Distant Mental Influence" table of contents was enough to get me hooked. Relating the techniques to the Buddha's teachings and personal experience, our minds/brain are very powerful and not isolated islands in this universe.
Zenaban