just one simple question
-
do u consider budhism a religion?
-
yes. its registered as such and there is devotion to a supernatural ideology, in this case.
but to many ppl here, i doubt that would be the case for them. -
i dun even know what a religion is now
-
wiki's article on religion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReligionOriginally posted by Omniknight:i dun even know what a religion is now
-
NoOriginally posted by frederikan:do u consider budhism a religion?
It started as a teaching as it will remain as such to me
However it has become a religion...I also don't know how it become one
-
Hi, Buddhism is Spiritual, but strictly speaking it is not a religion. We do not worship any higher beings nor believe in a personal Creator. Buddha isn't exactly some 'higher being' either -- he is the 'highest' that one can attain, but he is not some omnipotent creator god. We all strive to attain the same Enlightement as the Buddha himself.Originally posted by frederikan:do u consider budhism a religion?
The Buddha taught that it is possible through the Dharma to attain complete emancipation, liberation from ALL sufferings, and the highest Bliss of Nirvana through transcendental insights, realising our true luminous Buddha Nature that has always been with us though we have not realise it lifetime after lifetime of living in our delusions/illusions. Through practising the dharma we are able to be liberated from our dualistic attraction, aversion, and delusions. Not only has he done that -- there are countless practitioners since the Buddha who have attained enlightenment, liberation, even today, and even some forummers here have attained awakening... so what they found out and taught, we should practise ourselves until one day we realise them ourselves.
Buddhism is an awakened and blissful living. The word 'Buddha' means one that is 'Aware', 'Awakened'. Our Buddha Nature is pure awareness, luminous. Through practising the dharma we become much more aware of every moment of living, much more aware of ourselves and no longer live in our deluded unconscious ways. This is also the liberated and blissful way of living.
As you might have known, Buddhist teachings do not require blind faith and is a form of 'Science' rather than 'Belief' -- we should accept/practise teachings on the basis of whether it is good, whether it works, and if the practices bears results. Whatever the Buddha taught, we are not told to just blindly believe but to practise and find out for ourselves.. as my moderator neutral_onliner has said,Originally posted by neutral_onliner:
Here is the Kalama Sutra taught by the Buddha:
for those who do not understand the meaning of ehipassiko , it means [b]come and see.
The quality of Dhamma is that it's inviting us to check it out. This is a very strong characteristic of the Buddha's teaching. There's no heavy-handed demand: "Believe this." The faith element doesn't have the same role as in some other religions. We're asked, we're invited,to examine the teachings to see whether they fit. This is also an expression of the confidence that the Buddha and arahants had in their Dhamma; they realized it for themselves and know that we can, too.
[/b]Kalama Sutra
"Rely not on the teacher/person, but on the teaching. Rely not on the words of the teaching, but on the
spirit of the words. Rely not on theory, but on experience.Do not believe in anything simply because you
have heard it. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. Do
not believe anything because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything because it is
written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and
elders. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is
conducive to the good and the benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it."
- the Buddha
Also read the full version of the Kalama Sutra: http://www.buddhistinformation.com/the_kalama_sutra.htm -
Here's another one:Originally posted by An Eternal Now:http://www.dhammabooks.org/food_for_heart/samma_samadhi_detachment_with2.htm
SAMMA SAMADHI - DETACHMENT WITHIN ACTIVITY
Take a look at the example of the Buddha. Both in his own practice and in his methods for teaching the disciples he was exemplary. The Buddha taught the standards of practice as skilful means for getting rid of conceit, he couldn't do the practice for us. Having heard that teaching we must further teach ourselves, practice for ourselves. The results will arise here, not at the teaching.
The Buddha's teaching can only enable us to get an initial understanding of the Dhamma, but that Dhamma is not yet within our hearts. Why not? Because we haven't yet practiced, we haven't yet taught ourselves. The Dhamma arises at the practice. If you know it, you know it through the practice. If you doubt it, you doubt it at the practice. Teachings from the Masters may be true, but simply listening to Dhamma is not yet enough to enable us to realize it. The teaching simply points out the way to realize. To realize the Dhamma we must take that teaching and bring it into our hearts. That part which is for the body we apply to the body, that part which is for the speech we apply to the speech, and that part which is for the mind we apply to the mind. This means that after hearing the teaching we must further teach ourselves to know that Dhamma, to be that Dhamma.
The Buddha said that those who simply believe others are not truly wise. A wise person practices until he is one with the Dhamma, until he can have confidence in himself, independent of others.
On one occasion, while Venerable Sariputta was sitting, listening respectfully at his feet as the Buddha expounded the Dhamma, the Buddha turned to him and asked:
"Sariputta, do you believe this teaching?" Venerable Sariputta replied, "No, I don't yet believe it". Now this is a good illustration. Venerable Sariputta listened, and he took note. When he said he didn't yet believe he wasn't being careless, he was speaking the truth. He simply took note of that teaching, because he had not yet developed his own understanding of it, so he told the Buddha that he didn't yet believe, because he really didn't believe. These words almost sound as if Venerable Sariputta was being rude, but actually he wasn't. He spoke the truth, and the Buddha praised him for it.
"Good, good, Sariputta. A wise person doesn't readily believe, he should consider first before believing."
Conviction in a belief can take various forms. One form reasons according to Dhamma, while another form is contrary to the Dhamma. This second way is heedless, it is a foolhardy understanding, micchaditthi, wrong view. One doesn't listen to anybody else.
Take the example of Dighanakha the Brahmin. This Brahmin only believed himself, he wouldn't believe others. At one time when the Buddha was resting at Rajagaha, Dighanakha went to listen to his teaching. Or you might say that Dighanakha went to teach the Buddha, because he was intent on expounding his own views ...
"I am of the view that nothing suits me."
This was his view. The Buddha listened to DighanakhaÂ’s view and then answered,
"Brahmin, this view of yours doesn't suit you either." When the Buddha had answered in this way, Dighanakha was stumped. He didn't know what to say. The Buddha explained in many ways, till the Brahmin understood. He stopped to reflect and saw...
"Hmm, this view of mine isn't right."
On hearing the Buddha's answer the Brahmin abandoned his conceited views and immediately saw the truth. He changed right then and there, turning right around, just as one would invert one's hand. He praised the teaching of the Buddha thus:
"Listening to the Blessed One's teaching, my mind was illumined, just as one living in darkness might perceive light. My mind is like an overturned basin which has been up righted, like a man who has been lost and finds the way."
Now at that time a certain knowledge arose within his mind, within that mind which had been up righted. Wrong view vanished and right view took its place. Darkness disappeared and light arose.
The Buddha declared that the Brahmin Dighanakha was one who had opened the Dhamma Eye. Previously Dighanakha clung to his own views and had no intention of changing them. But when he heard the Buddha's teaching his mind saw the truth, he saw that his clinging to those views was wrong. When the
right understanding arose he was able to perceive his previous understanding as mistaken, so he compared his experience with a person living in darkness who had found light. This is how it is. At that time the Brahmin Dighanakha transcended his wrong view.
Now we must change in this way. Before we can give up defilements we must change our perspective. We must begin to practice rightly and practice well Previously we didn't practice rightly or well, and yet we thought we were right and good just the same. When we really look into the matter we upright ourselves, just like turning over one's hand. -
Like Master Chin Kung said that Buddhism is being seen as 'religion' only began in the past century.Originally posted by maggot:No
It started as a teaching as it will remain as such to me
However it has become a religion...I also don't know how it become one
Actually, Buddhism today is still not a religion. -
yes and no
yes - because many joss-stick buddhists blindly see it that way.
no - because there is no dogma (except theories for the intellect to explain on the teachings). in the 3 jewels are buddha, dharma, sangha. buddha taught the dharma and dharma is the nature of all things and nature/universe has no religion at all.
i suppose love and peace isn't a religion.
or religion is also about love and peace. -
Need to add on..Originally posted by paperflower:yes - because many joss-stick buddhists blindly see it that way.
Joss-stick Buddhists though are called that way conventionally, in actuality are not even Buddhists. To be a Buddhist one has to take refuge in the Three Treasures/Triple Gems: Buddha, Dharma, Sangha. These people have not taken refuge in the triple gems, and they have not a slightest idea of what are the teachings of Buddha.. they have no knowledge of the dharma. They belong to the category of 'Chinese Folk Traditions Practitioners' or Ming Jian Xing Yang.
Therefore I hope all "joss stick Buddhists" come and learn the teachings of the Buddha, not just worship Guan Yin, Buddha, and other Taoist deities. -
and also, the offerings of flowers, fruits, lamps, water, the sacred texts, building of temples and burning of incense - for the uninformed who doesn't understand or doesn't come to learn of the symbolic meaning behind them, would take buddhism as a "religion".
-
Yeah... we have to know each of their symbolic meanings.. these are not used to worship anyone, but are a form of reverence, respect, and remembrance.Originally posted by paperflower:and also, the offerings of flowers, fruits, lamps, water, the sacred texts, building of temples and burning of incense - for the un-informed who doesn't understand or come to learn of the symbolic meaning behind them, would take buddhism as a "religion". -
What do you mean by 'devotion to a supernatural ideology'?Originally posted by Ito_^:yes. its registered as such and there is devotion to a supernatural ideology, in this case.
but to many ppl here, i doubt that would be the case for them. -
btw do you belong to any religion, or free thinker?Originally posted by frederikan:do u consider budhism a religion? -
Although many people often link many folks traditions and practices to Buddhism in Singapore, it should be noted that these practices and traditions often have nothing to do with Buddhism. Many people still consider folk traditions as linked with Buddhism, although this idea of Buddhism is gradually disappearing among the locals and local medias are giving increasing attention to the true form of Buddhism in Singapore that focuses on the dharma (teachings) of the Buddha.
In recent years, due to the increasing publication of Buddhist books, the appearance of internet sites in English, the availability of modern Buddhist music as well as courses conducted in English, more and more English-speaking Chinese, especially the younger Singaporeans, are joining Buddhist circles. As a traditional Asian religion, Buddhism seems to be spreading back from the West to Singapore, as many of the Buddhist books are written by Western monks, sangha and writers
To have a better understanding pls click and read
Buddhism in Singapore - From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia -
yeah...,Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Yeah... we have to know each of their symbolic meanings.. these are not used to worship anyone, but are a form of reverence, respect, and remembrance.
well the buddhas & bodhisattvas actually do not need the flowers, fruits and water. the offerings and veneration are a gesture of remembering buddha's teaching and following the path, looks up to them as the perfectly enlightened ones with perfect compassion and perfect wisdom. so it is not to be characterised or categorised as an act of idol worshipping. yeah we may wish to understand their symbolic meanings. symbols are still concepts and ultimately, we still need to discard them eventually.
flowers symbolise the teachings of transience - impermanence, generosity, non-attachment.
fruits symbolise the constant practice that leads to a result of enlightenment (fruits rippen) that benefits oneself and all which is like food from the poverty of ignorance and the antidote for the 5 poisons.
light/oil lamps symbolise wisdom. we cannot be able to use physical light to see through ignorance which is like darkness, but we can view with wisdom that shines brightly. and wisdom can only be obtained through constant practice and/or direct experiences.
incense is symbolic, which signifies ethics, self purification, self dedication. the incense burns and diffuses, one dedicates oneself for others and become one with others.
bells/gong are symbols for contemplating on the soundless sound during meditation. besides it is also a use in monastery or temples to announce the time for chanting sessions or occasion.
water symbolises equality, tranquility, calmness, purity.
meditation beads are a symbol of harmony and togetherness. as each bead is individual but it is actually connected to the rest on the string. it signifies unity and interdependence. so we are all inter-related and neither isolated nor individual.
the images of buddhas and bodhisattvas are venerated, respected and remembered for their compassionate teachings and perfect wisdom that we aspire to follow the path they led. they are not to be worshipped or feared like any supreme being or godly entities.
buddhists put their palms together as a respectful veneration to the buddhas & bodhisattvas and also apply this gesture to any other being as seeing everyone equally without discrimination.
bowing is a beautiful practice as it lowers one's ego ready to receive the teachings and guidances from the enlightened teachers and others. even if the person is on the same level, he/she still regards others as higher than they are and bows humbly & respectfully.
hhmm... did i miss anything out?
well as far as i am still practicing, i don't see buddhism as a religion personally. for convenience and identification, buddhism is categorised as a religion. i know some name it science of mind and/or philosophy, to name a few.
with the teachings and practices, there are ways opened for me which has improved my life and changed the way I see things in my daily life more joyfully and freely, rather optimistically actually. it doesn't really matter if i don't get to go to heaven. the 3 jewels - buddha/dharma/sangha are my refuge i take. in buddhism, a buddhist need to remember to cultivate love and compassion which has always been in us, taught by the buddha. we are all buddhas - just that we haven't awakened to that yet.
there is no religion, only truth.
there is the way to enlightenment - liberation, that which is not a religion. -
Beautifully said! Yes, if you apply the teachings in your daily life, you will discover the real happiness has nothing to do with material gain.Originally posted by paperflower:yeah...,
well the buddhas & bodhisattvas actually do not need the flowers, fruits and water. the offerings and veneration are a gesture of remembering buddha's teaching and following the path, looks up to them as the perfectly enlightened ones with perfect compassion and perfect wisdom. so it is not to be characterised or categorised as an act of idol worshipping. yeah we may wish to understand their symbolic meanings. symbols are still concepts and ultimately, we still need to discard them eventually.
flowers symbolise the teachings of transience - impermanence, generosity, non-attachment.
fruits symbolise the constant practice that leads to a result of fruitful enlightenment that benefits oneself and all which is food from the poverty of ignorance and antidote for the 5 poisons.
light/oil lamps symbolise wisdom. we cannot be able to use physical light to see through ignorance which is like darkness, but we can view with wisdom that shines brightly. and wisdom can only be obtained through constant practice and/or direct experiences.
incense is symbolic, which signifies ethics, self purification, self dedication. the incense burns and diffuses, one dedicates oneself for others and become one with others.
bells/gong are symbols for contemplating on the soundless sound during meditation. besides it is also a use in monastery or temples to announce the time for chanting sessions or occasion.
water symbolises equality, tranquility, calmness, purity.
meditation beads are a symbol of harmony and togetherness. as each bead is individual but it is actually connected to the rest on the string. it signifies unity and interdependence. so we are all inter-related and neither isolated nor individual.
the images of buddhas and bodhisattvas are venerated, respected and remembered for their compassionate teachings and perfect wisdom that we aspire to follow the path they led. they are not to be worshipped or feared like any supreme being or godly entities.
buddhists put their palms together as a respectful veneration to the buddhas & bodhisattvas and also apply this gesture to any other being as seeing everyone equally without discrimination.
bowing is a beautiful practice as it lowers one's ego ready to receive the teachings and guidances from the enlightened teachers and others. even if the person is on the same level, he/she still regards others as higher than they are and bows humbly & respectfully.
hhmm... did i miss anything out?
well as far as i am still practicing, i don't see buddhism as a religion personally. for convenience and identification, buddhism is categorised as a religion. i know some name it science of mind and/or philosophy, to name a few.
with the teachings and practices, there are ways opened for me which has improved my life and changed the way I see things in my daily life more joyfully and freely, rather optimistically actually. it doesn't really matter if i don't get to go to heaven. the 3 jewels - buddha/dharma/sangha are my refuge i take. in buddhism, a buddhist need to remember to cultivate love and compassion which has always been in us, taught by the buddha. we are all buddhas - just that we haven't awakened to that yet.
there is no religion, only truth.
there is the way to enlightenment - liberation, that which is not a religion. -
Sadhu X3Originally posted by paperflower:yeah...,
well the buddhas & bodhisattvas actually do not need the flowers, fruits and water. the offerings and veneration are a gesture of remembering buddha's teaching and following the path, looks up to them as the perfectly enlightened ones with perfect compassion and perfect wisdom. so it is not to be characterised or categorised as an act of idol worshipping. yeah we may wish to understand their symbolic meanings. symbols are still concepts and ultimately, we still need to discard them eventually.
flowers symbolise the teachings of transience - impermanence, generosity, non-attachment.
fruits symbolise the constant practice that leads to a result of enlightenment (fruits rippen) that benefits oneself and all which is like food from the poverty of ignorance and the antidote for the 5 poisons.
light/oil lamps symbolise wisdom. we cannot be able to use physical light to see through ignorance which is like darkness, but we can view with wisdom that shines brightly. and wisdom can only be obtained through constant practice and/or direct experiences.
incense is symbolic, which signifies ethics, self purification, self dedication. the incense burns and diffuses, one dedicates oneself for others and become one with others.
bells/gong are symbols for contemplating on the soundless sound during meditation. besides it is also a use in monastery or temples to announce the time for chanting sessions or occasion.
water symbolises equality, tranquility, calmness, purity.
meditation beads are a symbol of harmony and togetherness. as each bead is individual but it is actually connected to the rest on the string. it signifies unity and interdependence. so we are all inter-related and neither isolated nor individual.
the images of buddhas and bodhisattvas are venerated, respected and remembered for their compassionate teachings and perfect wisdom that we aspire to follow the path they led. they are not to be worshipped or feared like any supreme being or godly entities.
buddhists put their palms together as a respectful veneration to the buddhas & bodhisattvas and also apply this gesture to any other being as seeing everyone equally without discrimination.
bowing is a beautiful practice as it lowers one's ego ready to receive the teachings and guidances from the enlightened teachers and others. even if the person is on the same level, he/she still regards others as higher than they are and bows humbly & respectfully.
hhmm... did i miss anything out?
well as far as i am still practicing, i don't see buddhism as a religion personally. for convenience and identification, buddhism is categorised as a religion. i know some name it science of mind and/or philosophy, to name a few.
with the teachings and practices, there are ways opened for me which has improved my life and changed the way I see things in my daily life more joyfully and freely, rather optimistically actually. it doesn't really matter if i don't get to go to heaven. the 3 jewels - buddha/dharma/sangha are my refuge i take. in buddhism, a buddhist need to remember to cultivate love and compassion which has always been in us, taught by the buddha. we are all buddhas - just that we haven't awakened to that yet.
there is no religion, only truth.
there is the way to enlightenment - liberation, that which is not a religion.
-
it is very high level science
-
It is never scientific to begin with and never will be.Originally posted by Xprobe:it is very high level science -
It HAS been scientific from the beginning, and will always be.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:It is never scientific to begin with and never will be.
Ken Wilber - Spirituality and the 3 Strands of Deep Science -
Same question from me againOriginally posted by maggot:No
It started as a teaching as it will remain as such to me
However it has become a religion...I also don't know how it become one 
:
When will the maggot become a fly?
Back to your question of when Buddhism became a religion:
When Shakyamuni started to transmit his Dharma to the people, did Buddhism become a religion. -
Not when it extrapolates reincarnation or rebirth and also karmic attachments to lifetimes.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:It HAS been scientific from the beginning, and will always be.
Ken Wilber - Spirituality and the 3 Strands of Deep Science -
Rebirth (not reincarnation) is now a proven phenomena even among non-Buddhists (i.e Ian Stevenson's research, many other researches), not only that, there are scientific methods taught by Buddha that you can PRACTISE and SEE yourself (though remembering past lives isn't emphasised in Buddhism)Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:Not when it extrapolates reincarnation or rebirth and also karmic attachments to lifetimes.
What I meant by scientific method?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method
In this case, Buddhism fulfills ALL criteria of Scientific Method.
The scientific method involves the following basic facets:
* Observation. A constant feature of scientific inquiry.
* Description. Information must be reliable, i.e., replicable (repeatable) as well as valid (relevant to the inquiry).
* Prediction. Information must be valid for observations past, present, and future of given phenomena, i.e., purported "one shot" phenomena do not give rise to the capability to predict, nor to the ability to repeat an experiment.
* Control. Actively and fairly sampling the range of possible occurrences, whenever possible and proper, as opposed to the passive acceptance of opportunistic data, is the best way to control or counterbalance the risk of empirical bias.
* Falsifiability, or the elimination of plausible alternatives. This is a gradual process that requires repeated experiments by multiple researchers who must be able to replicate results in order to corroborate them. This requirement, one of the most frequently contended, leads to the following: All hypotheses and theories are in principle subject to disproof. Thus, there is a point at which there might be a consensus about a particular hypothesis or theory, yet it must in principle remain tentative. As a body of knowledge grows and a particular hypothesis or theory repeatedly brings predictable results, confidence in the hypothesis or theory increases. (See also Lakatos.)
* Causal explanation. Many scientists and theorists on scientific method[attribution needed] argue that concepts of causality are not obligatory to science, but are in fact well-defined only under particular, admittedly widespread conditions. Under these conditions the following requirements are generally regarded as important to scientific understanding:
* Identification of causes. Identification of the causes of a particular phenomenon to the best achievable extent.
* Covariation of events. The hypothesized causes must correlate with observed effects.
* Time-order relationship. The hypothesized causes must precede the observed effects in time. -
Maggot the name is just symbolise a phase of lifeOriginally posted by Herzog_Zwei:Same question from me again :
When will the maggot become a fly?
Back to your question of when Buddhism became a religion:
When Shakyamuni started to transmit his Dharma to the people, did Buddhism become a religion.
Same as other creatures that have phases of life