Buddhism VS Harsh Reality
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I was watching this drama serial on channel 8 9'o clock. one of the plot got me started thinking...
Let's say there's this family who is really really very poor, so poor that they can hardly even put food on their table. Then suddenly, the wife got pregnant. Worst thing is, the unborn child was discovered through scanning to be deformed.
The most obvious solution for most people would be to abort the children. After all, the birth of the child would bring only pain to many other people.
However, Buddhism strongly advices against abortion becaues it's deemed as a form of killing.
But still, there seem to be no other chioce for the family. What should one as a buddhist do in this case? Remember, maybe in Singapore such families can still seek help from welfare groups. But many other countries don't have such thing.
And yes, this is yet again another 'what if...' type of hypothetical question, but I do think many families underwent such thing before... -
It is because Buddhism isn't very practical at solving such problems. If a child is borned deformed in such a way that it will die, will you try to prolong its suffering? Abortion can be considered as mercy-killing for this hypothetical real-life situation.Originally posted by mahawarrior:I was watching this drama serial on channel 8 9'o clock. one of the plot got me started thinking...
Let's say there's this family who is really really very poor, so poor that they can hardly even put food on their table. Then suddenly, the wife got pregnant. Worst thing is, the unborn child was discovered through scanning to be deformed.
The most obvious solution for most people would be to abort the children. After all, the birth of the child would bring only pain to many other people.
However, Buddhism strongly advices against abortion becaues it's deemed as a form of killing.
But still, there seem to be no other chioce for the family. What should one as a buddhist do in this case? Remember, maybe in Singapore such families can still seek help from welfare groups. But many other countries don't have such thing.
And yes, this is yet again another 'what if...' type of hypothetical question, but I do think many families underwent such thing before... -
I think.. for whatever decision you will be making, law of karma applies- U still have to face the consequence of aborting or not aborting the babies.Originally posted by mahawarrior:I was watching this drama serial on channel 8 9'o clock. one of the plot got me started thinking...
Let's say there's this family who is really really very poor, so poor that they can hardly even put food on their table. Then suddenly, the wife got pregnant. Worst thing is, the unborn child was discovered through scanning to be deformed.
The most obvious solution for most people would be to abort the children. After all, the birth of the child would bring only pain to many other people.
However, Buddhism strongly advices against abortion becaues it's deemed as a form of killing.
But still, there seem to be no other chioce for the family. What should one as a buddhist do in this case? Remember, maybe in Singapore such families can still seek help from welfare groups. But many other countries don't have such thing.
And yes, this is yet again another 'what if...' type of hypothetical question, but I do think many families underwent such thing before...
Don't forget that there is consequence of abortion too. -
abortion is kiling unborn life
I dont accept abortion as the way to keep unwanted births
Karmic will cause the death of another sentient beings who will haunt the mother and the family in times to come
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"Suddenly"???
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Originally posted by bohiruci:abortion is kiling unborn life
I dont accept abortion as the way to keep unwanted births
Karmic will cause the death of another sentient beings who will haunt the mother and the family in times to come It is because Buddhism isn't very practical at solving such problems. If a child is borned deformed in such a way that it will die, will you try to prolong its suffering? Abortion can be considered as mercy-killing for this hypothetical real-life situation.
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???Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
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A karmic wrong has previously been committed that bears the unwholesome fruit in the form of a poor family suddenly finding itself saddled with an unwanted/ deformed baby.Originally posted by mahawarrior:I was watching this drama serial on channel 8 9'o clock. one of the plot got me started thinking...
Let's say there's this family who is really really very poor, so poor that they can hardly even put food on their table. Then suddenly, the wife got pregnant. Worst thing is, the unborn child was discovered through scanning to be deformed.
The most obvious solution for most people would be to abort the children. After all, the birth of the child would bring only pain to many other people.
However, Buddhism strongly advices against abortion becaues it's deemed as a form of killing.
But still, there seem to be no other chioce for the family. What should one as a buddhist do in this case? Remember, maybe in Singapore such families can still seek help from welfare groups. But many other countries don't have such thing.
And yes, this is yet again another 'what if...' type of hypothetical question, but I do think many families underwent such thing before...
Aborting the baby will be another karmic wrongdoing. As they say, two wrongs do not make one right. -
Okay , let me say the views according to many enlightened Buddhist out there
(not me , i quoting from sources)
Abortion is not a good form of solving solutions of unwanted births
and killing of another sentient being which is still unborn is very heinous
Looking at certain medical review that some situation ,babies unborn will cause complications to the mother health and even life , is really a hard decision to make
I feel that if faced with such situation ,be it happen to my future generation
and my fren , I will approach them to chant for the unborn ,so as to prevent future vengeful rebirth to harm the family
but at the same time the method of abortion is still a very cruel thing in modern gynaceology
to crush an unborn baby skull and "suck " it out , the consciousness is at the most frightened state , equally comparable to those falling into avici hell
I remember watching the General Paper Education video on abortion and see those maimed foetus , make me really shocked for a whole week
I am canvassing if anyone wish to pray for the foetus , please I am offering my service to those unborn babies -
There is no denying that this can be a complicated choice. In such cases I would definitely recommend consulting a wise Buddhist master/teacher.
Though we have to consider one's life, karmic factors will come to play as well. Any abortions regardless of one's life circumstances is still killing and ending lives, it is also going to be a very painful and gruelling process for the aborted child.
If possible, it's best NOT to abort the baby, and take care of the baby even if he is not very healthy compared to others. It is also part of the parents' karma, so one should take this as a chance to gradually clear our karma from the past, and as a test of one's dharma practice and cultivation, rather than pushing the karma forward into future lifetimes or even worsening it. We should take care of the child to our best, shower him with love, treat him like any other child.
If one has already decided, or already had abortions, one is advised to dedicate all merits in one's lifetime and practise to the aborted child, among other advises (please read the link below)
Regarding the topic of Abortion, I already had discussions on this forum previously: Buddhism's Stance on Abortion
P.S. I forgot to mention that MOST cases of abortions are completely avoidable, and there are many other alternatives that can be taken. Again, read the discussions in the link above. -
Did you bother to read my input in the first place?Originally posted by bohiruci:??? -
i tink the same as beyond religion leh. but frm another stand, i agree wif an eternal now loh. shud refrain frm condemnation of others n their choices; let dem pik own paths.
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A buddhist solve the problem before it arise. If the problem happened, it will be too late to think about what to do.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:It is because Buddhism isn't very practical at solving such problems. If a child is borned deformed in such a way that it will die, will you try to prolong its suffering? Abortion can be considered as mercy-killing for this hypothetical real-life situation.
The parents and the child must have done something bad in the past that brings them into this difficult situation. -
Ah yes... I forgot to mention this even though I wanted to yesterday.Originally posted by justdoit77:A buddhist solve the problem before it arise. If the problem happened, it will be too late to think about what to do.
The parents and the child must have done something bad in the past that brings them into this difficult situation.
As my Master advocates -- use contraceptives, object abortions. -
Hmm...the thing about karma is, I don't think a family in this situation will give a lot of concern to 'karma'...they'll be more concerned with solving the current crisis in the easiest and efficient way possible?
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So it really depends on causes and conditions of that person, and whether he practices the Buddha dharma. Because abortions is so predominant in the world nowadays, the world is creating very heavy collective karma as a result.Originally posted by mahawarrior:Hmm...the thing about karma is, I don't think a family in this situation will give a lot of concern to 'karma'...they'll be more concerned with solving the current crisis in the easiest and efficient way possible?http://www.jenchen.org.sg/vol4no4d.htm
Most abortions (97%) are made not due to health reasons and most of them are completely avoidable... yet, they chose to abort their babies because they do not want to take the responsibility of bringing up the child due to various circumstances. They also did not take other alternatives. Which is very sad.
8. Abortion is legal in some countries. Does Jen Chen Buddhism support abortion? What are the retributions from the karma of abortion?
Jen Chen Buddhism advocates contraception, not abortion.
Jen Chen Buddhism advocates the observance of the Five Precepts: to abstain from (1) killing, (2) stealing, (3) sexual misconduct, (4) false speech and (5) consumption of all kinds of intoxicants. To abstain from killing is the first precept and that means to avoid taking the life away from any living beings. All killings are sinful, especially the killing of human beings since they are of the highest order amongst all living things on earth. As viviparous animals, the human embryo is considered a human being. Therefore, one who has aborted a foetus has committed an act of killing.
Jen Chen Buddhism absolutely does not support abortion because it is an act of killing. The retribution of killing is to suffer in hell. Moreover, the consciousness of the foetus whom has been deprived of his birth and caused to suffer in his killing, will be engulfed in hatred and anger. Thus, the collective negative karma of killing will lead to a common retribution, resulting in calamities among humanity.
Jen Chen Buddhism hopes that humanity accepts contraception and objects to abortion. It is in this way that humanity can have happiness and bliss. -
The only bad thing they have done is probably being human.Originally posted by justdoit77:A buddhist solve the problem before it arise. If the problem happened, it will be too late to think about what to do.
The parents and the child must have done something bad in the past that brings them into this difficult situation. -
if i had an abnormal fetus i would abort it right away
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You mean that they should accept such pain and suffering? As I said karmic consequences is pure bovine excrement that even buddhism refrains from talking about it.Originally posted by Hello Kitty:i tink the same as beyond religion leh. but frm another stand, i agree wif an eternal now loh. shud refrain frm condemnation of others n their choices; let dem pik own paths. -
Well, one will usually suffer guilt and many other psychological or health side-effects from abortion. isn't there also suffering.. ?Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:You mean that they should accept such pain and suffering? As I said karmic consequences is pure bovine excrement that even buddhism refrains from talking about it. -
Being selfish and irresponsible by taking lives away, in most cases. I hope all those thinking about abortion to think deeper.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:The only bad thing they have done is probably being human. -
Let's say someone is mentally retarded. Doesn't mean he has a very sad life, retarded people can be happy too. And just being retarded doesn't mean you have the right to kill him, nor would he want to die.Originally posted by Omniknight:if i had an abnormal fetus i would abort it right away -
Buddhism talks about karma all the time, and even in this thread it is mentioned so many times. So I don't know what you're talking about.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:You mean that they should accept such pain and suffering? As I said karmic consequences is pure bovine excrement that even buddhism refrains from talking about it.
Just because you don't know karma doesn't mean there is no karma. Similarly even if you don't know the law doesn't mean you're immune to it. It's just cause and effect. -
Simply said, karma doesn't always affect present or future lives.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Buddhism talks about karma all the time, and even in this thread it is mentioned so many times. So I don't know what you're talking about.
Just because you don't know karma doesn't mean there is no karma. Similarly even if you don't know the law doesn't mean you're immune to it. It's just cause and effect. -
this seems to be getting a bit off-topic, but how are you sure that karma/cause and effect exist?
it's like saying God exist whether or not you believe in him, but...how do you know he exist/does not exist?
it's the same with karma...