Spirituality as an Escape?
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i feel... am i taking somethings a little too far. I once read from somewhere that spirtual living is NOT about meditating everyday in a temple. A true practitioner should be practising dharma even while doing these things?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:I think your mind is 'maturing' out of it... no longer so obsessed with them. But still doesn't mean you can't enjoy them... there has to be balance.
But honestly speaking I don't think a practitioner with certain levels of practise, would spend too much time on these things. Not that they can't... but life is just too short, we'd better be making use of all the time to practise. There is much greater bliss in clarity than in materialism, because material things are all fleeting, ungraspable, of the nature of dukkha.
As for whether you want a relationship, ultimately its conditions (such as meeting somebody you like) + your choice. There is no right and wrong, you have to plan your own future. -
Yes, spiritual living is not all about meditating, and practise is not outside all our daily actions.Originally posted by Isis:i feel... am i taking somethings a little too far. I once read from somewhere that spirtual living is NOT about meditating everyday in a temple. A true practitioner should be practising dharma even while doing these things?
If you meditate all day and and fail to perform your obligations as a lay person, then that is going to the extreme.
At the same time if one can lessen being engrossed in things that are not of much benefit -- such as indulging in luxurious things, shopping etc, that's good.
To liberate yourself from strong passionate feelings is good, though not many people can do that. Also, not everyone wants to live a life unmarried, so it depends on your choice. Also if your partner feel you have distanced from him because of Buddhism, then it's not very good either. So if you are already attached, please do not neglect your partner due to your spiritual practise.
Anyway, as my dharma teacher said, to liberate yourself from strong passionate feelings is not becoming 'unfeeling', it's bringing love to a higher level. This is the love of the bodhisattva, the greater love one has for all sentient beings... yet there is no strong attachment to any person or feelings. -
yeah.. i think to be liberated oneself from strong passionate feelings... is a state that i think few can understand.... i'm not saying that i can understand.. but then only enlightened beings will truly know.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Yes, spiritual living is not all about meditating, and practise is not outside all our daily actions.
If you meditate all day and and fail to perform your obligations as a lay person, then that is going to the extreme.
At the same time if one can lessen being engrossed in things that are not of much benefit -- such as indulging in luxurious things, shopping etc, that's good.
To liberate yourself from strong passionate feelings is good, though not many people can do that. Also, not everyone wants to live a life unmarried, so it depends on your choice. Also if your partner feel you have distanced from him because of Buddhism, then it's not very good either. So if you are already attached, please do not neglect your partner due to your spiritual practise.
Anyway, as my dharma teacher said, to liberate yourself from strong passionate feelings is not becoming 'unfeeling', it's bringing love to a higher level. This is the love of the bodhisattva, the greater love one has for all sentient beings... yet there is no strong attachment to any person or feelings. -
I've seen that this topic is rather interesting so I decided to share my point of view and experience.
For me, sometimes I do see it as a form of escape. An escape from the mundane society/world. The mundane world is fun and full of happiness, but all are temporal and none of the fun or happiness really do last. At most, it will last a few lifetimes but what good will it do? During this few minutes to few lifetimes of temporal happiness, I know for sure I will definitely create negative karma. In the end, the same-ole-sufferings will come back and haunt me. IMHPOV, i do really want to escape from all these.
In short, I just find the mundane world to be so silly... most of the time. -
Yes.. I do think many people want and seek spirituality to escape from mundane things... including myself, sometimes.Originally posted by oldkid:I've seen that this topic is rather interesting so I decided to share my point of view and experience.
For me, sometimes I do see it as a form of escape. An escape from the mundane society/world. The mundane world is fun and full of happiness, but all are temporal and none of the fun or happiness really do last. At most, it will last a few lifetimes but what good will it do? During this few minutes to few lifetimes of temporal happiness, I know for sure I will definitely create negative karma. In the end, the same-ole-sufferings will come back and haunt me. IMHPOV, i do really want to escape from all these.
In short, I just find the mundane world to be so silly... most of the time.
But then time and time again experience will tell that it's not possible... cos reality presents all sorts of mundanity that you have to face it. So in the end... you have to learn how to face reality and grow spiritually from there... and then eventually you'll begin to appreciate how all the mundane settings are actually a great spiritual ground for practise.
From the true viewpoint of our Buddha Nature, like 6th Zen Master Hui Neng said, is beyond purity and defilement of samsara. That is the 'Transcendental Purity' of Dharmakaya... it is ever shining and ever unstained.. like a non stick realm where consciousness does not abide in anything, yet everything appears miraculously. The problem is only that we are 'moved' by our circumstances, our mind forms perceptions of them, whereas in reality they are empty... so all such mental perceptions must be deconstructed.
6th Zen Master Hui Neng said (in the previous post I posted): Our Essence of Mind is intrinsically pure, and the reason why we are perturbed is because we allow ourselves to be carried away by the circumstances we are in. He who is able to keep his mind unperturbed, irrespective of circumstances, has attained Samadhi.
I think if we can face reality every moment, mindful and aware, and not run away from it, and not seeking something else, and have fearlessness in that state, soon there will be insight into what is non-duality...
In terms of living in the mundane world, we should have wisdom not to engage in unwise activities and behaviors, and yet use prajna wisdom to deal with every situation.. this requires mindfulness and thoughtful consideration. At the same time we remain liberated at all times, and we are not creating any negative karma... -
wont all other paramitas come full circle once wisdom is perfected? you speak of each as an unrelated indvidual, also to each his own karma, if there is a lack of "go to the street and practice giving" karma in one's life, then are you saying that he will not be able to attain buddhahood? if such is the case, then this is a false way because it has limitations in its nature.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Yes indeed, compassion must complement wisdom, wisdom must complement compassion... thank you for pointing out something very important. -
Sorry I'm a little tired now and can't think clearly... I'm not sure if I get what you mean, could you pls explain?Originally posted by Xprobe:wont all other paramitas come full circle once wisdom is perfected? you speak of each as an unrelated indvidual, also to each his own karma, if there is a lack of "go to the street and practice giving" karma in one's life, then are you saying that he will not be able to attain buddhahood? if such is the case, then this is a false way because it has limitations in its nature.
I think we should try our best... for example the paramita of giving... my Master always say giving isn't just about giving a bunch of money. Giving can be anything... even something as simple as smiling. That's giving.. because when you smile, others smile, everyone becomes happy.
That is one form of giving... we should be mindful at all moments and be rather to give and share... if we can give something we hold on dearly to someone who needs it more, then all the more thats better.
Wisdom is one paramita but there are many others and we should all practise until Buddhahood... this is v impt. Only the Buddha has completed the training of all the ten paramitas. -
question is directed at bohirici who advise you practice giving
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Hey, I think this is pretty good, "To face reality and grow spiritually from there.". It may not be easy but it will be worth trying. Thanks for the advise.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:But then time and time again experience will tell that it's not possible... cos reality presents all sorts of mundanity that you have to face it. So in the end... you have to learn how to face reality and grow spiritually from there... and then eventually you'll begin to appreciate how all the mundane settings are actually a great spiritual ground for practise. -
No . All other paramitas will not come full circle when wisdom is perfectedOriginally posted by Xprobe:wont all other paramitas come full circle once wisdom is perfected? you speak of each as an unrelated indvidual, also to each his own karma, if there is a lack of "go to the street and practice giving" karma in one's life, then are you saying that he will not be able to attain buddhahood? if such is the case, then this is a false way because it has limitations in its nature.
You still need to have Compassion as your practice ,else you are not going towards Buddhahood -
Giving paramitas must be in full circle only when perfected the wisdom and Compassion of giving .Originally posted by Xprobe:question is directed at bohirici who advise you practice giving
Its not so simple , you sound everything simple , but thats not the case
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if so, why bother with wisdom?Originally posted by bohiruci:No . All other paramitas will not come full circle when wisdom is perfected
You still need to have Compassion as your practice ,else you are not going towards Buddhahood -
or,
wisdom effects the realisation of all beings being equal and thus, the sense of universal compassion arise because of this realisation, without having the need to actually "go out and give" (does it have to be so heavy duty?)
whats more, since compassion is universal and thus does not dwell on Me anymore, it "breaks" out of its form and thus we realise that there is no "compassion to attain", it just flows
all this requires wisdom, so everything comes full circle -
hey, how come you contradict yourself, this is what you said in the "lust" thread:Originally posted by bohiruci:No . All other paramitas will not come full circle when wisdom is perfected
You still need to have Compassion as your practice ,else you are not going towards Buddhahood
"With Wisdom ,reduces emotion
reduces emotion , towards Great Compassion" -
Wisdom, Compassion, Spirituality are not things that you can acquire... they are not things that you can achieve... they are not things that you can buy with money...
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then should we "forget it" and "ignore it"? Of course not.
But then, you do not say "if we do not "forget it" and "ignore it" then we chase after it? Of course not. -
and hey ,how come u like to make fun of ppl depressed feelings ?Originally posted by Xprobe:hey, how come you contradict yourself, this is what you said in the "lust" thread:
"With Wisdom ,reduces emotion
reduces emotion , towards Great Compassion"
I dun think u are any better ???? -
haha, trivialising these depressed feelings helps a person see that it isnt such a BIG deal after all, it is not so ALL IMPORTANT, just that he is too attached to his SELF.Originally posted by bohiruci:and hey ,how come u like to make fun of ppl depressed feelings ?
I dun think u are any better ????
you are right, i am the worst kind around, i lack compassion and wisdom all around