Is Buddha tooth here the real McCoy?
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Does it really matter? Which is more important? Dharma or this argument whether the relic is real or not?Originally posted by maggot:Pluck out the tooth of any human being in India, Nepal or Sri lanka also cannot match that size
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We judge people with the facts and evidence given and that you can try to find out as much as you want given any facts.Originally posted by bohiruci:In the light of NKF saga ,some people actually use this to gauge Buddhist charity
Dear all, Ven Fazhao is always engaging in Metta charity for the Down Syndrome syndrome
Let us try to visualise ourselves as Down syndrome ppl .
First you are look down by people as your IQ and your looks pretty the same as you are as 3 years old .No matter where you went , ppl will point finger at you
I am not siding Ven Fazhao in this issue , but I believe if He wish to create a "tooth " for his fame and glory , he would have done it at long before he build Golden Pagoda Buddhist temple .
I cannot find a book written by him and a idea to build a Ci Guang Ren .[this part is to the point,I will not go beyond this point ,as some Buddhist association will not be happy when I say beyond this ]
There are alot of Venerable in Singapore who toil anonymously for Buddhism ,though his word sound unbefitting as a monk , I believe He have seen something we cant ,and we cannot judge monk as human by a certain standard of response .
media can distort views
We dunno who is right and who is wrong ,we will leave it to time to prove us
so if you live long , why worry of the hidden , it will soon be uncovered .
there have been even reports people suspecting Sakyamuni Buddha dun even exist , was only a legend to make people happy .such questioning will only bring futility and fruitless search
Science cannot measure the power of Faith .If science can ,then science must be able to measure the existence of ghost and other form of sentient beings
Certainly I think you're out of the focus, I have no idea why you bring Metta in. I have never doubt Metta's contribution to the society by taking care of people with Down syndrome. I don't know is it possible for Down symdrome patients to actually know that they are been looked down but this is not the main issue.
Faith definitely can't be measured by science.
So, bodhiruici, you agree in making a big white lie to attract people to Buddhism?
If your answer is yes, then I really have nothing to say. -
If the purpose for you to pursue Dhamma is for your personal benefit and cultivation, then of course this argument will not be important to you.Originally posted by coolbluewater:Does it really matter? Which is more important? Dharma or this argument whether the relic is real or not?
However, besides benefitting for oneself, if anyone who wish to see that Buddhism to have a clean record of such dubious artifact, then it is important.
There are even more interested relics claimed to be taken out of "xu kong" by some funny sects of Buddhism, personally, I won't care about that because those brances are simply out of the human-touch.
But now, this claim to be Sakyamuni Buddha's remain. He was once the Siddhartha Gautama, possessing the same human anatomy; walking on the same soil; breathing the same air; embracing the same nature.
And now someone in some 2500 years later after such a Noble One passed away claimed to have a tooth relic remain that at a glance by dentists know that it has little chance to be from a human remain. Unless you believe that Siddhartha upon His enlightenment, His anatomy would suddenly change to something like an buffalo or whatnot.
This is no longer an issue on faith. This is either someone who doesn't take history seriously; or deliberately wanting to distort history. I believe that Buddhism is a civilised faith. It's not a barbaric faith whereby just simply believe.
What is a civilised faith? A civilised faith is that not only does its principles is realistic and practical; whatever physical remains it had left should be able to stand up against the test of science. Of course science isn't the answer to everything. However science is mankind's attempt in understanding nature.
Now a simple DNA to test whether or not this tooth relic belongs to a human or otherwise wouldn't be too difficult to ask for right? -
This tooth or truth has to be approached objectively. What has it got to do with faith, charity, Dhamma, symbolism, Tibetan story, etc.?
To begin with - faith is akin to reliance or trust. In religion, faith is belief in the teaching or doctrine. But the tooth is the tooth and I don't see the connection with faith. As an extension, even belief itself is questionable. Don't the very word 'believe' connotes uncertainty? If I tell you I saw a kangaroo got knocked down by a car in Chinatown, your reaction would be:
1) is it? (to believe or not)
2) I trust you [bcos you'r trustworthy] (faith)
3) you are joking (believe or faith does not even arise).
However, if you saw the incident with your own eyes, would there be a question of believe or faith?
Somehow, in all 'religion', there is always a plausible answer to any question! Can't we see it plainly? A human tooth is different from a buffalo's tooth. If it is a buffalo's tooth, why called it the Buddha's. If not sure, why not authenticate? If it cannot be authenticated then why accept it as Buddha's tooth?
I find the temple's abbot answers rather 'unintelligent' and naive, and going against the teaching of Buddha. To me, building golden stupas, holding relics and erecting oversize statues of Buddha as desires to build icons. So faith, symbolism, wordship, legends, traditions are just excuses.
If I now give you a tooth and say that it is the Buddha's, what would you do?
1) believe it is, just like the monk
2) doesn't matter, Dhamma is more important
3) why bother, anything as Buddha's relic is good for the wordshippers
4) a reason for building icon
I would be very sceptical and even cynical if the above is how you react. The truth is in the tooth, don't hide, don't find excuses, don't project to something else. -
DharmaOriginally posted by coolbluewater:Does it really matter? Which is more important? Dharma or this argument whether the relic is real or not?
But nothing of it is taught
So teach people by making the tooth issue a mountain out of a mole hill
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for your info , faith is the most important in BuddhismOriginally posted by TheGoodEarth:This tooth or truth has to be approached objectively. What has it got to do with faith, charity, Dhamma, symbolism, Tibetan story, etc.?
To begin with - faith is akin to reliance or trust. In religion, faith is belief in the teaching or doctrine. But the tooth is the tooth and I don't see the connection with faith. As an extension, even belief itself is questionable. Don't the very word 'believe' connotes uncertainty? If I tell you I saw a kangaroo got knocked down by a car in Chinatown, your reaction would be:
1) is it? (to believe or not)
2) I trust you [bcos you'r trustworthy] (faith)
3) you are joking (believe or faith does not even arise).
However, if you saw the incident with your own eyes, would there be a question of believe or faith?
Somehow, in all 'religion', there is always a plausible answer to any question! Can't we see it plainly? A human tooth is different from a buffalo's tooth. If it is a buffalo's tooth, why called it the Buddha's. If not sure, why not authenticate? If it cannot be authenticated then why accept it as Buddha's tooth?
I find the temple's abbot answers rather 'unintelligent' and naive, and going against the teaching of Buddha. To me, building golden stupas, holding relics and erecting oversize statues of Buddha as desires to build icons. So faith, symbolism, wordship, legends, traditions are just excuses.
If I now give you a tooth and say that it is the Buddha's, what would you do?
1) believe it is, just like the monk
2) doesn't matter, Dhamma is more important
3) why bother, anything as Buddha's relic is good for the wordshippers
4) a reason for building icon
I would be very sceptical and even cynical if the above is how you react. The truth is in the tooth, don't hide, don't find excuses, don't project to something else.
If you dun have basic faith in his teaching
then you can forget about proceeding and for self-liberation
you are using something to scrutinised a religion which is very scientific
My answer to this ,to Yamizi , is I dunno ,
becos to wrongfully slander a monk is a heinous karma cultivated
if the Buddha tooth turns out to be real and all the while my mind projection is it is false ,then I have to bear the karmic fruit of being obstructed as a seeker of truth
I guess I remain status quo on this issue ,becos it really is a matter of time which will be resolved ,to use force or with the heart of malice will attract great repercussion to one
Buddhism is about Karma , we cannot escape .and I am not a expert on Buddha tooth , Buddha finger or even Buddha body
I more concerned whether ppl wish to see life is abt suffering and does my compassion wanes in modern living ? -
NKF saga still fresh in everyone's mind
Karma?
Blind leading the blind to walk the road is even worse
I only know the real truth is out there
Faith?
I know buddha never taught us to worship objects will lead to liberation or cease whatever sufferings
Worshipping is not dharma
Holding on to objects is not dharma -
1 more important thing
A lot of people are using the name of buddhism to accumulate WEALTH
Latest trend is the geylang fake bogus monks -
Faith is not the most important thing in Buddhism.Originally posted by bohiruci:for your info , faith is the most important in Buddhism
If you dun have basic faith in his teaching
then you can forget about proceeding and for self-liberation
you are using something to scrutinised a religion which is very scientific
My answer to this ,to Yamizi , is I dunno ,
becos to wrongfully slander a monk is a heinous karma cultivated
if the Buddha tooth turns out to be real and all the while my mind projection is it is false ,then I have to bear the karmic fruit of being obstructed as a seeker of truth
I guess I remain status quo on this issue ,becos it really is a matter of time which will be resolved ,to use force or with the heart of malice will attract great repercussion to one
Buddhism is about Karma , we cannot escape .and I am not a expert on Buddha tooth , Buddha finger or even Buddha body
I more concerned whether ppl wish to see life is abt suffering and does my compassion wanes in modern living ?
Both Faith and Understanding works hand in hand. Faith will inspire us to acquire Understanding and through Understanding it strengthens our Faith.
Now before you say I slander anyone, I hope that you could read my posts carefully again. One of the issues I had raised in my posts is simply on the authencity of the questioned tooth relic.
Is that slandering? It is merely in the spirit of the Dhamma to encourage us to find out the Truth. How can that be considered as slandering?
Buddhism definitely teaches about Kamma. Is the kamma of inquiry unwholesome? Or is the kamma of lying unwholesome?
If you are not expert in relics, then read and learn more! Since you claim to have a "medium collection of sutra" definitely there would be sutras touching on the issue right?
I'm not an expert to begin with but years back since its first apperance it did spur me up a bit to understanding the issue rather than just go and pray.
I'm not sure whether will people see and understanding life is about suffering or not but I'm sure that I got feedback that there are people saying Buddhism is a big lie over this issue. -
Originally posted by bohiruci:
for your info , faith is the most important in Buddhism
If you dun have basic faith in his teaching then you can forget about proceeding and for self-liberation
I disagree. The Dhamma is most important in Buddhism, not faith! If I don't understand/follow the Dhamma, I won't be liberated!
you are using something to scrutinised a religion which is very scientific
If a 'religion' cannot withstand scrutiny by science or even scepticism, then it is foolish to follow that religion!
My answer to this ,to Yamizi , is I dunno ,
becos to wrongfully slander a monk is a heinous karma cultivated
if the Buddha tooth turns out to be real and all the while my mind projection is it is false ,then I have to bear the karmic fruit of being obstructed as a seeker of truth
To question a monk or even doubt a monk is not slander! It is one thing to show respect or reverence and quite another to just simply rever. I think you are muddle up here!
I guess I remain status quo on this issue ,becos it really is a matter of time which will be resolved ,to use force or with the heart of malice will attract great repercussion to one
You have great fear of the karmic effect, so that's why you prefer to be kaisu and take the nonchalant path - not the middle path! -
From Yahoo!SG, Sunday 22 July
Authenticity of Buddha Tooth Relic still subject of discussion
Channel NewsAsia - Sunday, July 22SINGAPORE :
Some people are still continuing to question the authenticity of the Buddha Tooth Relic housed in the temple along South Bridge Road.
The Tooth Relic is stored on the fourth floor of the temple which usually does not allow any photography.
But given the current interest, it has made an exception.
No one is allowed to enter the chamber, but from the outside, you can see the stupor which contains the tooth relic.
The stupor was built using 420 kilograms of gold, donated by devotees who can only visit the tooth relic twice a year - the first day of the Lunar New Year and Vesak Day.
The only other way to see it is through brochures, which could be the reason why people are made more curious about its authenticity.
Some experts have also reportedly questioned whether the tooth is from the Buddha himself.
Liau Ming Ong, Donor, says: "The reverend Fa Zhou have to come out to speak the truth. You cannot simply brush it off and you think it's real, it's real. It's not correct. We have scholars from all over the world, come here to take a look and they look at the size of the tooth, then it's very ridiculous."
Ong Kim Dee, Donor, says: "Since we've donated the money, we need to know the truth, whether this is the truth from a Buddha or any animal, we have the right to know. Everyday we see a lot of local and foreign tourists visit the temple. If one day they find out it is not the truth, then I think it's a joke, it's not very good for Singapore."
Renowned artist Tan Swie Hian had done some research on Buddhism and believes it teaches the pursuit of truth.
He says: "I don't mind praying to a buffalo's tooth provided I'm told it is one. Let me get it right before my prayer. The Buddha's teaching is all about seeing things as they are and this is nothing to do with Buddhism or faith. It is a claim that can be easily, conclusively proven by science."
The founder of a Buddhist Art Museum says he had received similar looking tooth relics when he visited Myanmar previously.
Woon Wee Teng, Founder and Curator, Nei Xue Tang - Buddhist Art Museum, says: "Many monks gave them to me and they told me, of course these teeth are quite similar to the one in the Buddha Tooth Relic Temple and they told me please, bring them home to Singapore and put in the Museum to display. And of course, I'm very careful. I must do due diligence. What I did was to take them back, to check with the vet, forensic and also I checked with dentists, they're all forensics as well and they confirm that it's a non-human, herbivore's tooth. So I make a decision to not display."
Mr Woon says if the temple has the Buddha Tooth, then as a public institution it has the responsibility to show proof.
He adds that the responsibility is even greater if the temple is collecting public money.
Mr Woon says: "We mustn't be seen by the outside world, internationally that we can't tell the difference between a horse tooth and a human tooth. That would be a disaster, it's a lot of embarrassment. I think they should get it right and since it's so clear that it's a herbivore's tooth, then they must rectify it."
And verifying the authenticity of all displays is something the Asian Civilisations Museum takes seriously.
Tan Huism, Deputy Director - Curation and Collections, Asian Civilisation Museum, says: "A museum is a place where we'll display objects that are authentic to the cultures. We decide whether these objects are authentic to their cultures and their timing...through stylistic comparisons with similar objects found at that time and other museums.
"We would then look at the pieces and see how these pieces compare with similar pieces from other museums. Of course you could also do scientific testing."
Within the temple grounds, there are many notices explaining its position on the tooth relic.
It says the suggestion of DNA testing, whilst simplistic, is a practical challenge to conduct.
It adds DNA testing is also invasive and it is unlikely that any Buddhist Temple and their devotees would agree to such a test for what they believe to be the Buddha Tooth. - CNA/ch -
Hi,
Faith in the Buddha Dharma is a very important thing, not faith in a well-known monk nor in a relic. Even in our Jodo Shin (Japanese Pure Land) tradition, though we frequently speak of Faith or Entrusting, it is NOT a type of blind faith or unquestioning faith in "something".
As stated in the Nirvana Sutra:Good sons! There are two kinds of shinjin (faith): one is trust and the other is searching. Such people, although they have trust, are incapable of searching. Therefore theirs is termed "imperfect realization of shinjin."
Gassho
Again, there are two kinds of shinjin: one arises from hearing and the other from reflection. These people's shinjin has arisen from hearing but not from reflection. Therefore it is called "imperfect realization of shinjin."
Again, there are two kinds: one is to believe that there is enlightenment and the other, to believe that there are people who have attained it. These people's shinjin is belief only that enlightenment exists and not that there are people who have attained it. Therefore it is called "imperfect realization of shinjin." -
may you be liberated by your tormented view .I am not interested to talk to youOriginally posted by TheGoodEarth:
begone
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Originally posted by yamizi:
you have offered to slap yourself in your practice .
Faith is not the most important thing in Buddhism.
Both Faith and Understanding works hand in hand. Faith will inspire us to acquire Understanding and through Understanding it strengthens our Faith.
Now before you say I slander anyone, I hope that you could read my posts carefully again. One of the issues I had raised in my posts is simply on the authencity of the questioned tooth relic.
Is that slandering? It is merely in the spirit of the Dhamma to encourage us to [b]find out the Truth. How can that be considered as slandering?
Buddhism definitely teaches about Kamma. Is the kamma of inquiry unwholesome? Or is the kamma of lying unwholesome?
If you are not expert in relics, then read and learn more! Since you claim to have a "medium collection of sutra" definitely there would be sutras touching on the issue right?
I'm not an expert to begin with but years back since its first apperance it did spur me up a bit to understanding the issue rather than just go and pray.
I'm not sure whether will people see and understanding life is about suffering or not but I'm sure that I got feedback that there are people saying Buddhism is a big lie over this issue.[/b]
remember Karma knows no emotions .Whatever righteous you sound here ,and you act deviantly in another way , may I hope you will be well and happy when the fruition comes
I am not interested to learn about relics .not like you ,slandering tantric buddhism and tibetan buddhism .Your learning is still towards that level ,then I have nothing to say .
May you be well and happy 
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Hahahha, you are the one being tormented by my views, which you know that by FAITH they are the TRUTH.Originally posted by bohiruci:may you be liberated by your tormented view .I am not interested to talk to you
begone
Its OK you don't 'crave' to talk to me. I have no 'attachment' to you.
Its very 'dhammatic' of you to tell me 'begone'. I don't think I will be liberated like you, so I shall be reborn, not begone! -
Don't know what to say...
Not becos of the views of non-buddhists cos it's natural that their views are different from us, but many of the so called buddhists here and out there, especially those the media chose to published and brocasted (nobody "doubts " why?, or maybe this is what we want to hear?). Oh and those famous buddhists...
All of us should study the noble truths over and over again before we move on any futher. Buddha has stressed in sutra Zha A Han JIng, that the four noble truths must be first understood thoroughly before one goes on to any other level of the dharma and one cannot skip the first level and fast forward to the higher levels as one likes. We can see now that many Buddhists have in fact jumped this important first step and prefer to talk about the more profound, and based on this so called higher level of understanding which we think we already have ( maybe even more than the sangha) to urgue thier case over this very sensitive issue, issue that affect Buddhism, The Dharma, The sangha, The Triple Gems.
We Buddhist must be mindful of what we say or write in public regarding Buddhism and Buddhadharma as it may have gross effects on The Triple Gems. Many will take our words for reall, so pls be mindful that we don't unconsciously harm Buddhism and stop others fr seeking the Dharma.
Pls remember that any wrongs doings by the sangha will be dealt with by the relevant authourity, like The Buddhist Federation and the respected high monks, or even the Police.
Some of the forumers here are correct in saying that we should stop arguing about the authencity of the tooth relic and concentrate more on the dharma. How true. Pls remind ourselves this.
My baics guideline is this, which I've mentioned before: what is the ultimate purpose of asking or even forcing Ven Fazhao to test the tooth relic?
-Does it help the Buddhadharma in any positive way? So if science say its fake, then? ask for refund? call the police? disrobe Ven Fazhao? tear down the temple? snigger at the temple? hooray we are right and justice has be served? Then? Faith is not important, Dharma is, so we can just get enlighten by ourselves cos we r so wise? BUddha says " Fo fa shen miao, wu xing yun he jie?" - The Buddhadharma is most profound; without belief how to understand?"
-Dose it help or harm Buddhism? We can see what happens now.
-Does it help satisfy the non-believers and trouble makers more?
-Does it create dis-harmony among Buddhists?
-Are we, the budhhists, the ones that took refuge under The Triple Gems, the ones that study the Dharma under the sangha, really think we are already wise enough, capable enough, authorised enough to argue negatively on such religion issue just based on our own likings and perceived rights? Pls be mindful.
I remember my Dharma Master mentoned that many Buddhists have become more " wo zhi" than " wu wo". ie we become more and more egoist and proud rather than the opposite. I have seen some ppl, who just by studying a few dharma lessons, thought they are Dharma Masters or even Buddha already. Pls be mindful before our heads get too big for our own good.
Buddha has mentioned ( maybe the moderators can elaborate more ) something that the dharma will be harmed or distroyed by own Buddhism followers. " shi zhi shen sheng chong"- The worms grow on the Lion itself. The Lion being the Buddhadharma, the worms being the destroyers. Pls don't be the worms. -
Oh, and btw, there are scientists saying that humans are born herbivore. And pls don't don't argue over this as well, we don't really know anything so just let the experts explore on it further.
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Well if you refuse to find out the truth just admit it, no need to use kammic fruition in trying to scare me off. I don't know your 'level of learning' is to use threat.Originally posted by bohiruci:you have offered to slap yourself in your practice .
remember Karma knows no emotions .Whatever righteous you sound here ,and you act deviantly in another way , may I hope you will be well and happy when the fruition comes
I am not interested to learn about relics .not like you ,slandering tantric buddhism and tibetan buddhism .Your learning is still towards that level ,then I have nothing to say .
May you be well and happy
If you are not interested to learn about the relics, then I don't understand why are you posting here discouraging people from learning more from this issue because I believe intelligent forummers here would like to find out the truth.
If no one is interested in finding out, then there isn't a need to come to a forum, where the purpose of a forum is to share and discuss issue in liberal and civilised manner, all in the spirit of enquiry.
Slandering tantric and tibetan buddhism? What is slandering? Slandering would mean that I would have said something untrue about them. But is that really so in the first place? How did tantric and tibetan buddhism started and evolved? Are their practices parallel to buddhistic principles? There will be many factors for you to establishe to be true before you can say that I'm "slandering". Please be mindful of the descriptions that you are using.
Please keep in mind that this thread is meant to discuss on the authenticity of the tooth relic in question. I would be more than happy to discuss tantric and tibetan buddhism either offline or at another thread, as at present please don't divert the attention.
If the Noble One's Teaching to you is simply by faith and left no room for verification, then probably you can join the group call "blind faith". -
Buddhism is not about fear
But to know the naked truth
People need to know the truth about this in time
Be it the hard way or the other
Have no fear
Open your eyes and "heart" and see the truth
The argument has begun even before the construction of the temple
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Hello cycle,
Just to share my views, my replies are in blue =)Originally posted by cycle:Don't know what to say...
Not becos of the views of non-buddhists cos it's natural that their views are different from us, but many of the so called buddhists here and out there, especially those the media chose to published and brocasted (nobody "doubts " why?, or maybe this is what we want to hear?). Oh and those famous buddhists...
All of us should study the noble truths over and over again before we move on any futher. Buddha has stressed in sutra Zha A Han JIng, that the four noble truths must be first understood thoroughly before one goes on to any other level of the dharma and one cannot skip the first level and fast forward to the higher levels as one likes. We can see now that many Buddhists have in fact jumped this important first step and prefer to talk about the more profound, and based on this so called higher level of understanding which we think we already have ( maybe even more than the sangha) to urgue thier case over this very sensitive issue, issue that affect Buddhism, The Dharma, The sangha, The Triple Gems.
We Buddhist must be mindful of what we say or write in public regarding Buddhism and Buddhadharma as it may have gross effects on The Triple Gems. Many will take our words for reall, so pls be mindful that we don't unconsciously harm Buddhism and stop others fr seeking the Dharma.
Pls remember that any wrongs doings by the sangha will be dealt with by the relevant authourity, like The Buddhist Federation and the respected high monks, or even the Police.
Thank you for sharing your comment. However, sad to say there is no "buddhist authority" in Singapore. The Singapore Buddhist Federation is not an authority and Ven Fazhao is the 1st Vice President at the moment. I am not sure will the Police be involved as this is a religious matter and I think it has not amount to any criminal liability at this point of time.
Some of the forumers here are correct in saying that we should stop arguing about the authencity of the tooth relic and concentrate more on the dharma. How true. Pls remind ourselves this.
As I had mentioned too, if Dhamma to you is for personal benefit, if one would like to contribute further by upholding the authentic buddhist history, then as buddhists we do have the responsibilities to query further.
My baics guideline is this, which I've mentioned before: what is the ultimate purpose of asking or even forcing Ven Fazhao to test the tooth relic?
-Does it help the Buddhadharma in any positive way? So if science say its fake, then? ask for refund? call the police? disrobe Ven Fazhao? tear down the temple? snigger at the temple? hooray we are right and justice has be served? Then? Faith is not important, Dharma is, so we can just get enlighten by ourselves cos we r so wise? BUddha says " Fo fa shen miao, wu xing yun he jie?" - The Buddhadharma is most profound; without belief how to understand?"
It definitely helps as if (it is if, I didn't say it is) this is proven to be a fraud, it will deter others in attempting to abuse the trust that buddhists have towards monks for personal gains in future. And if (yes, if again) this is proven to be a fraud, probably the Police may really come in, we won't know. To the best of my knowledge, there is no buddhist authority in Singapore so I doubt anyone would be able to "disrobe" Ven Fazhao. And if the tooth relic is proven to be a non-human remain, well then it will be up to Ven Fazhao to decide what to do with the temple. Definitely right and justice is a basic human rights for us to persevere and fight for. I had mentioned Faith is not the most important but I didn't say it is not important. However the Faith that Lord Buddha had mentioned, like what Sanath had rightly brought up, is towards His Teachings, not the remains of His body!
-Dose it help or harm Buddhism? We can see what happens now.
Chinese proverbs: Paper cannot wrap fire. Another common saying: You need to build a bigger lie to cover the previous lie
-Does it help satisfy the non-believers and trouble makers more?
What is trouble makers? People who seek truth is trouble maker? Then Sakyamuni Buddha would be the biggest "trouble maker" since back then He refused to accept the religious ideas that He was taught and decide to explore further to attain what we buddhist known as Supreme Enlightenment!
-Does it create dis-harmony among Buddhists?
Disharmony among buddhists happen all the time with various other reasons. I'm just sad to hear people calling Buddhism a lie over this issue.
-Are we, the budhhists, the ones that took refuge under The Triple Gems, the ones that study the Dharma under the sangha, really think we are already wise enough, capable enough, authorised enough to argue negatively on such religion issue just based on our own likings and perceived rights? Pls be mindful.
At least for me, I don't take the whole issue negative. There is nothing to be positive or negative at least to me over this issue. I just urge and hope that the tooth relic would be tested. If we are not wise enough, then how can you assume that Ven Fazhao is wise enough to declare the tooth relic in question to be authentic in the very first place?
I remember my Dharma Master mentoned that many Buddhists have become more " wo zhi" than " wu wo". ie we become more and more egoist and proud rather than the opposite. I have seen some ppl, who just by studying a few dharma lessons, thought they are Dharma Masters or even Buddha already. Pls be mindful before our heads get too big for our own good.
Buddha has mentioned ( maybe the moderators can elaborate more ) something that the dharma will be harmed or distroyed by own Buddhism followers. " shi zhi shen sheng chong"- The worms grow on the Lion itself. The Lion being the Buddhadharma, the worms being the destroyers. Pls don't be the worms.
You hit the nail on the wall! That is why we need to find out the truth and not allowing worms to be infested in the lion! A distortion in the buddhist history would eventually led to the credibility of scriptures. There are a whole lot repercussions for this issue.
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Thanks for sharing =)Originally posted by cycle:Oh, and btw, there are scientists saying that humans are born herbivore. And pls don't don't argue over this as well, we don't really know anything so just let the experts explore on it further. -
I disagree with bohiruci's usage of karmic fruition in this context, to stop the debate on the relic.
My family has donated around $10,000 to said temple. I consider them to be of said "min jian xin yang". I do not consider myself a true buddhist either, not taken refuge in the triple gems, but rather a learner of buddhism, though not qualified in any way nor attended formal classes. You can even say my buddhism background is dubious.
Their primary motive for donating was that they believed that the relic was authentic and wanted to accumulated merits for our family and the community at large. So far, they have faith in the relic. Having said this, being donors, I feel that I have a legitimate right to know the truth and to take part in any discussions, without slandering anyone.
I do not take any side regarding this controversy. But i feel entitled to hearing from both sides of the fence. I resent your clamping down of the debate, but I welcome you to debate others who hold differing views from you. -
I append here my post in another thread:Originally posted by cycle:Oh, and btw, there are scientists saying that humans are born herbivore. And pls don't don't argue over this as well, we don't really know anything so just let the experts explore on it further. I want to separate subsistence from compassion. Looking at the natural world, you see creatures divided into carnivorous, herbivorous, etc. So a specie becomes part of the food chain. Big fish eats small fish. Small fish eats plankton. Frog eats flies. Cow eats grass. Squirrel eats nuts. Bird eats worms ..... so human beings eat? Everything he can lay hands on!!!!
Looking at human anatomy - the jaws, teeth, limbs and body mass - human cannot eat big game, deep seafood, birds that fly because human cannot outrun cheetah, swim deep, or fly high! Hence, leopards, sharks and hawks cannot be human's 'normal' staple. That leaves pigs, chicken, cows, frogs and small fishes that human can catch. Vegetables are within human reach and so are fruits that when ripen should fall to the ground. If not, then it is not for human consumption.
My view is simple. Whether meat or non-meat, the food we eat are living things. Some you have to 'kill' while others you cultivate or pluck.
When you see a tiger going for its prey, do you feel bad? -
Wah, the debate so hot. I wandered how much merit had been burnt and how many future lives had been projected.
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Hehe, why not wonder how much merit have been accumulated and how many future lives will have the affinity with Triplegem in the pursuit of Truth?Originally posted by oldkid:Wah, the debate so hot. I wandered how much merit had been burnt and how many future lives had been projected.
=)