Is Buddha tooth here the real McCoy?
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Merit that cannot be seen and measureOriginally posted by oldkid:Wah, the debate so hot. I wandered how much merit had been burnt and how many future lives had been projected.
Measure with what standard? who's standard?
Who can be trusted that they can see the future?
Still remembers that "Da mo" or the first patriach say that building temples, taking care of monks and giving donations have no merit what so ever to the emperor at his time in china
My last sentence above seems to diminish the merit system but there's a need to say it out
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Faith is the basic foundation of belief. But faith itself must be founded on truth. Some basic truths must exist before we can even talk about faith. For instance, Buddha DID exist. He did teach what is written (although expanded by later practitioners), etc.
This is the same with the other 'religions.' Jesus and Mohammad DID exist! These are historical FACTS!
But, to say that this is a relic of Jesus, or this saint or that saint or Buddha, or this monk, but also be grounded in FACTS. This material fact SHOULD be proven! Good examples include: The Shroud of Turin, Wood Chip from Cross of Jesus, etc. Some of these truths also were tested through time, examples, not many years ago, people were saying that Ur (Abraham's birthplace did not exist!), etc. Archeology became a science and many 'truths' were proven right or wrong.
That is the basis of the faith that all believers (whatever religion) has. That their faith is based on FACTS!
If it is true, no one need to defend it. Just like a real $10 note! It can stand all tests by itself because it is true! Doesn't need me or you to prove it to the hawker when we use it! But a $9? Obviously a fake. Why? No real $9 note. Therefore, must bluster and deny and shout to 'convince' that it is 'real.' The 'tooth' falls now in this category! Many people posting here have demonstrated their 'faith' by donating money "on the condition and premise that the tooth was real" and it cannot be denied. If there wasn't the tooth there, would the temple be built? Would the donations amount to that much? Maybe so, but most likelty not in the short time that it had happened.
Ven Shi owes it to all those who had put their faith in what he had said to demonstrate some basic truths. The attack is that it isn't human. At least that isn't hard to prove. And if it bears out to be human, then whether it is Buddha's or not would be very difficult to determine scientifically, unless maybe the scoffers can get Buddha's DNA or some other methods.
The Shroud of Turin gives important lessons. Tests done using Carbon 14 showed it to be made somewhere in the 13th Century! But that had not stopped devotees from going to Turin to pray at the Cathedral there! New tests are now being done and maybe new findings will prove otherwise. I don't know, but each test that proves it to be from Jesus would reinforce the faith of many.
What is the fear? That the tooth is not human? or is the truth so fearful? Unfortunately, if it is not the truth, then faith would be based on a lie!
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Yamizi , remember the words you say as the words of Goodness
If you only interested in Debate with other on persuit of truth ,you will be futile in your search for enlightenment
I do not need to study Relics as it have nothing to do whether I will die tonight .So tell me ,Yamizi ,have anyone told you ,be prepared to die anytime ?
I have known you since Ngee Ann Poly Buddhist Society ,I do not wish to expose your past ,but remember this :
The truth shall prevail that Real merit through practice is the factor to attract other to Buddhism , not Pure Debate
If you like so much to twist my words and make an criticism on a personal front,may you be well and happy .
and remember whatever you spoken against Tibetan Buddhism ,we noted your fiery comments
the more you fight without Peace of Mind[Pure Mind], the more you degraded
thats the workings of Karma
I dare you to set up your own Buddhist society and forum ,see who will be influenced by you
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there was once a dragon which comes to disturb the place where Sakyamuni Buddha lived ,many arahat use magical power to cast upon the dragon but the dragon refuse to go for many hours .
One monk ,came up and say ,"naughty dragon ,please leave" and the monk sit down to chant.
The dragon left .everyone was shocked and ask the monk how he chase the dragon away .The monk said he only chant the paritta he always chant for 10 over years without stop.
This is the real merit I am talking abt .
Yes , investigating on the Buddha relic looks like a test of faith ,but look at it
if upon deep heat and fire ,what kind of DNA structure can be produced ?
Buddha self cremate himself with the fire not found on Saha world ,so how do we decipher the ashes ?
Whatever one donates to the Buddha tooth relics, the merits will be immeasurable in many lives .So even if the tooth is mistakenly as Buddha tooth ,DOES IT MEAN YOU RETRACT YOUR DONATION FOR OWN PRESENT LIVE BENEFIT ?
see out ,look inner ,
If a newspaper report can make us lose faith , we lost our basic principle to even be followers of Buddha
I can dare say Buddha exist as I saw many vision of Great Bodhisattva even Avalokiteshvara in my meditation ,so Buddhism is not a lie -
Tooth has a small portion of DNA that can be extracted and can even CLONE that portion
Buddha got lots of supernatural powers right?
Just imagine an army with Buddha's DNA at my command
Ok above should be crap
Perhaps time will tell the truth
Singaporeans are smart -
hi guys, we all take it easy ok.
There is no need to be so sensitive towards what other people said, be it right or wrong. It is not a big deal to "win" a discussion or to say something that made people to "wow", but if you can remain calm and friendly even after people attack you, then you really have done a great thing.
We should learn from tibetan scripture debate, their objectives is not to defeat the opponent, but rather to exchange views and learn from each other. -
Just to share that Lord Buddha was a Fully Enlightened Being and is not an ordinary being like us, both in mind and body. He possessed signs of a Great Man. So to compare him to us, ordinary beings, is too presumptous.
The 32 signs of the Great Man
There are 32 main characteristics (Pali: Lakkhana Mahapurisa 32):
1. He has feet with a level sole (Pali: supati thapado). Note: "feet with level
tread,/ so that he places his foot evenly on the ground,/ lifts it evenly,/ and touches the ground evenly with the entire sole." (Lakkhana Sutta)
2.He has wheel marks on soles (Pali: he thapadatalesu cakkani jatani).
3.He has projecting heels (Pali: ayatapa ni).
4.He has long fingers and toes (Pali: digha nguli).
5.His hands and feet are soft-skinned (Pali: mudutalahathapado).
6.He has netlike lines on palms and soles (Pali: jalahathapado).
7.He has high raised ankles (Pali: ussa nkhapado).
8.He has taut calf muscles like an antelope (Pali: e nimigasadisaja ngho).
9.He can touch his knees without bending (Pali: thitako va anonamanto).
10.His sexual organs are concealed in a sheath (Pali: kosohitavatguyho).
11.His complexion is bright, the color of gold (Pali: suva n nava no). Note: "His body is more fair than all/ the Gods he seems, great Indra's like" (Lakkhana Sutta).
12.His skin is so fine that no dust can attach to it (Pali: sukhumacchavi).
13.His body hairs are separate with one hair per pore (Pali: ekekalomo).
14.His body hair is bluish and curls clockwise (Pali: uddhagalomo).
15.He has a godlike upright stance (Pali: brahmujugatto).
16.He has the seven convexities of the flesh (Pali: satusado). Note: "the seven convex surfaces,/ on both hands, both feet, both shoulders, and his trunk." (Lakkhana Sutta)
17.He has a chest like a lion's (Pali: sihapuba dhakayo).
18.There is no hollow between his shoulders (Pali: pitantara mso).
19.The distance from hand-to-hand and head-to-toe is equal (Pali: nigrodhaparima n dalo). Note: incidentally, these are also the ideal proportions according to Leonardo Da VinciÂ’s Vitruvian Man.
20.He has a round and smooth neck (Pali: samva d dakhando).
21.He has sensitive taste-buds (Pali: rasagasagi).
22.His jaw is like a lion's (Pali: sihahanu).
23.He has 40 teeth (Pali: cata.lisadanto). Note: The average person normally has 32 teeth.
24.His teeth are evenly spaced (Pali: samadanto).
25.His teeth are without gaps in-between (Pali: avira ladanto). 26.He has crystal-like canine teeth (Pali: sukadanto). 27.He has a large, long tongue (Pali: pahutajivho).
28.He has a voice like a BrahmanÂ’s (Pali: brahmasaro hiravikabha ni).
29.He has very blue eyes (Pali: abhi nila netto). Note 1: "very (abhi) blue (nila) eyes (netto)" is the literal translation, although it has been interpreted variously as actually blue, or possibly blue-black. Nila is the word used to describe a sapphire and the color of the sea, but also the color of a rain cloud. It also defines the color of the Hindu God Krishna. Note 2: "His lashes are like a cow's; his eyes are blue./ Those who know such things declare/ 'A child which such fine eyes/ will be one who's looked upon with joy./ If a layman, thus he'll be/ Pleasing to the sight of all./ If ascetic he becomes,/ Then loved as healer of folk's woes.'" (Lakkhana Sutta)
30.His eyes are like a cow's (Pali: gopa mukho). Note: Probably refers to large eyes and long eyelashes.
31.He has a white soft wisp of hair in the center of the brow (Pali: una loma bhamukantare jata). Note: this became the symbolic urna.
32.His head is like a royal turban (Pali: u nahisiso).
The 80 secondary characteristics
There are also 80 secondary characteristics (Pali: Anubyanjana):
He has beautiful fingers and toes.
He has well-proportioned fingers and toes.
He has tube-shaped fingers and toes.
His fingernails and toenails have a rosy tint.
His fingernails and toenails are slightly upturned at the tip.
His fingernails and toenails are smooth and rounded without ridges.
His ankles and wrists are rounded and undinted.
His both feet are equal length.
He has a beautiful gait, like that of a king-elephant.
He has a stately gait, like that of a king-lion.
He has a beautiful gait, like that of a swan.
He has a majestic gait, like that of a royal ox.
His right foot leads when walking.
His knees have no protruding kneecaps.
He has the demeanour of a great man.
His navel is without blemish.
He has a deep-shaped abdomen.
He has clockwise marks on the abdomen.
His thighs are rounded like banana sheafs.
His two arms are shaped like an elephant's trunk.
The lines on the palms of his hands have a rosy tint.
His skin is thick or thin as it should be.
His skin is unwrinkled.
His body is spotless and without lumps.
His body is unblemished above and below.
His body is absolutely free of impurities.
He has the strength of 1,000 crore elephants or 100,000 crore men. Note: A crore is equal to 10 millions.
He has a protruding nose.
His nose is well proportioned.
His upper and lower lips are equal in size and have a rosy tint.
His teeth are unblemished and with no plaque.
His teeth are long like polished conches.
His teeth are smooth and without ridges.
His five sense-organs are unblemished.
His four canine teeth are crystal and rounded.
His face is long and beautiful.
His cheeks are radiant.
The lines on his palms are deep.
The lines on his palms are long.
The lines on his palms are straight.
The lines on his palms have a rosy tint.
His body emanates a halo of light extending around him for two meters.
His cheek cavities are fully rounded and smooth.
His eyelids are well proportioned.
The five nerves of his eyes are unblemished.
The tips of his bodily hair are neither curved nor bent.
He has a rounded tongue.
His tongue is soft and has a rosy-tint.
His ears are long like lotus petals.
His earholes are beautifully rounded.
His sinews and tendons don't stick out.
His sinews and tendons are deeply embedded in the flesh.
His topknot is like a crown.
His forehead is well-proportioned in length and breadth.
His forehead is rounded and beautiful.
His eyebrows are arched like a bow.
The hair of his eyebrows is fine.
The hair of his eyebrows lies flat.
He has large brows.
His brows reach the outward corner of his eyes.
His skin is fine throughout his body.
His whole body has abundant signs of good fortune.
His body is always radiant.
His body is always refreshed like a lotus flower.
His body is exquisitely sensitive to touch.
His body has the scent of sandalwood.
His body hair is consistent in length.
He has fine bodily hair.
His breath is always fine.
His mouth always has a beautiful smile.
His mouth has the scent of a lotus flower.
His hair has the colour of a dark shadow.
His hair is strongly scented.
His hair has the scent of a white lotus.
He has curled hair.
His hair does not turn grey.
He has fine hair.
His hair is untangled.
His hair has long curls.
He has a topknot as if crowned with a flower garland.
Source :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_characteristics_of_the_Buddha#The_32_signs_of_the_Great_Man
Just Practise, practise, practise the great teachings of Lord Buddha.
May All Sentient Beings Be Well and Happy. -
Wow challenges again?Originally posted by bohiruci:Yamizi , remember the words you say as the words of Goodness
If you only interested in Debate with other on persuit of truth ,you will be futile in your search for enlightenment
I do not need to study Relics as it have nothing to do whether I will die tonight .So tell me ,Yamizi ,have anyone told you ,be prepared to die anytime ?
I have known you since Ngee Ann Poly Buddhist Society ,I do not wish to expose your past ,but remember this :
The truth shall prevail that Real merit through practice is the factor to attract other to Buddhism , not Pure Debate
If you like so much to twist my words and make an criticism on a personal front,may you be well and happy .
and remember whatever you spoken against Tibetan Buddhism ,we noted your fiery comments
the more you fight without Peace of Mind[Pure Mind], the more you degraded
thats the workings of Karma
I dare you to set up your own Buddhist society and forum ,see who will be influenced by you
Anyone with a sane and rational mind would know and understand that I'm not here to debate but rather to urge and encourage intelligent people to find out the truth instead of simply accept.
Why use death to threathen me? Every second is a second closer to death anytime. And before I die, I would really hope there will be intelligent and reasonable people who have faith, understand, accept and practice buddhism because they know that it is a realisitc and practical faith. Not simply by words of a monk that says he believes and everyone else believes!
Yes I do know you from Ngee Ann Poly and I don't think I have any past to hide, if you were like to expose, go ahead but please do in another thread as I had suggested in discussion in regards to tibetan buddhism in my previous reply. This thread is meant to discuss on the authencity of the relic in questioned, please do not divert the focus away.
Why would you need to dare me to set up a society? A buddhist society simply is an organisation that gathers like-minded buddhists. Keyword, like-minded. Which therefore, even though historically we have only one Buddha who appeared in the world, so many societies were established because I believe the various founders would have their different reasons, or to put it in more buddhistic term yin yuan, in setting up their respective societies.
However, the only buddhist authority in the history of Buddhism itself would seems to be during the Buddha's time. However, the just and fair authority would have eventually disappear and in modern times we do not have a sole and single buddhist authority that suppose to control buddhists all round the world. I sincerely believe that Lord Buddha would encourage both ordain and laity to discuss and share the wonderful Dhamma.
On the contrary, I would like to remind of your remarks making against me for the various post. Using kammic fruition, death, "expose my past" (as if I don't know what are you doing behind) as methods in order to keep me quiet. I personally for one think that what you had commented are definitely uncoming from a buddhist.
This seems to suggest that you are not in an objective mindset in enquiring the truth pertaining to the tooth relic saga. I would say if you can't make any constructive sharing then probably it will really be great merits for you to stop posting instead of using various threat-like means in an attempt to stop me and indirectly stoping others forummers.
I believe forums, especially buddhist forum are meant to be healthy exchange of experience and observation for the benefit of everyone. As buddhists, we ought to be careful the way we present ourselves, be it agreeing or disagreeing with the points exchange. The impression that Lord Buddha gives me during my pursuit in the Dhamma for 10 years is that He definitely would encourage healthy exchange of ideas.
How do you know I do not have a pure mind? You mean you have pure mind? Having a pure mind would resort in the above means in attempting to keep me and others quiet? And who are you to say I degrade the works of Kamma?
LOL
I will like to conclude my posting by inviting the owner/moderator to keep a close watch on this thread, especially on bodhiruici's hostile and unfriendly remarks towards other forummers. I remembered bodhiruici used word like "Begone" to TheGoodEarth. I don't think that's warranted, especially bodhiruici is a senior member of this forum, I am concerned that this will create a negative impression to others or even caused potential good postings not to surfaced due to the fear of getting flamed. I hope the owner/moderator would take necessary actions against such unruly behaviour.
Thank you -
why the argument? the issue now is not about faith. the relic is either real or fake. period!!!
even if the relic is fake it does not affect buddhism as a whole. buddha is still buddha and buddhism is still buddhism. -
There you go!Originally posted by iLuVpOrKyPiG:why the argument? the issue now is not about faith. the relic is either real or fake. period!!!
even if the relic is fake it does not affect buddhism as a whole. buddha is still buddha and buddhism is still buddhism. -
MN 58
Abhaya Sutta
To Prince Abhaya
(On Right Speech)
Translated from the Pali by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu PTS: M i 392
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Source: Transcribed from a file provided by the translator.
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Translator's Introduction
In this discourse, the Buddha shows the factors that go into deciding what is and is not worth saying. The main factors are three: whether or not a statement is true, whether or not it is beneficial, and whether or not it is pleasing to others.
The Buddha himself would state only those things that are true and beneficial, and would have a sense of time for when pleasing and unpleasing things should be said. Notice that the possibility that a statement might be untrue yet beneficial is not even entertained.
This discourse also shows, in action, the Buddha's teaching on the four categories of questions and how they should be answered (see AN 4.42).
The prince asks him two questions, and in both cases he responds first with a counter-question, before going on to give an analytical answer to the first question and a categorical answer to the second. Each counter-question serves a double function: to give the prince a familiar reference point for understanding the answer about to come, and also to give him a chance to speak of his own intelligence and good motives. This provides him with the opportunity to save face after being stymied in his desire to best the Buddha in argument.
The Commentary notes that the prince had placed his infant son on his lap as a cheap debater's trick: if the Buddha had put him in an uncomfortable spot in the debate, the prince would have pinched his son, causing him to cry and thus effectively bringing the debate to a halt. The Buddha, however, uses the infant's presence to remove any sense of a debate and also to make an effective point. Taking Nigantha Nataputta's image of a dangerous object stuck in the throat, he applies it to the infant, and then goes on to make the point that, unlike the Niganthas — who were content to leave someone with a potentially lethal object in the throat — the Buddha's desire is to remove such objects, out of sympathy and compassion. In this way, he brings the prince over to his side, converting a potential opponent into a disciple.
Thus this discourse is not only about right speech, but also shows right speech in action.
Extracted from :
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.058.than.html -
Yes, let this be the principle of all discussions like I always didOriginally posted by justdoit77:hi guys, we all take it easy ok.
There is no need to be so sensitive towards what other people said, be it right or wrong. It is not a big deal to "win" a discussion or to say something that made people to "wow", but if you can remain calm and friendly even after people attack you, then you really have done a great thing.
We should learn from tibetan scripture debate, their objectives is not to defeat the opponent, but rather to exchange views and learn from each other.
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The titled issue is about the truth of the tooth at the Relic Temple. The answer should just be:
1) Yes, it is the Buddha's tooth.
2) No, it is some other.
I understand in Buddhism, there can be further answers:
3) It is neither.
4) It does not matter.
FAITH has been introduced here. The plain meaning of faith is: trust or which can be relied upon. However, there are many kinds of faith:
A) Good Faith
B) Blind Faith
C) Rational Faith
When you buy a loaf of bread, you expect it does not contain poison, that is based on good faith. When you accept that the tooth at the Relic Temple is Buddha's - that is based on blind faith. When you verify or authenticate the tooth and found that it is either (1) or (2) and accept it, that is based on rational faith.
What then is
A) True Faith ??
How about an exercise? Try to match 1,2,3,4 with a,b,c,d. Example:
(1) & (2) is C -
just for info:
faith
http://online.sfsu.edu/%7Erone/Buddhism/BuddhistDict/BDF.html
Faith is one of the Eleven Wholesome Dharmas of the One Hundred Dharmas (see entry for latter); it is also one of the Five Faculties (faith, vigor, mindfulness, concentration, and wisdom).
"Faith is necessary in whatever it is one does. One needs to have a sense of belief, an attitude of faith. First, one needs to have faith in oneself. What kind of faith? One needs to have faith that one certainly can become a Buddha. One has to believe that there is no difference between the Buddha and oneself. Yet that lack of difference is in one's Buddha-nature. Cultivation is still required in order to actually become a Buddha. If one cultivates, one will become a Buddha. In order to do so, one must have an initial belief in this principle.
"Second, not only is it necessary to believe that one can become a Buddha oneself, but also to believe that all people can become Buddhas. Moreover, not only can all people become Buddhas, one should believe that all living beings have the Buddha-nature and are capable of becoming Buddhas. If one has that kind of faith, then one should begin by following the rules oneself. To follow the rules means to hold the moral precepts. First one holds the precepts, and then one can become a Buddha. One does it oneself and also encourages others to do so as well.
"Faith must be solid, like a rock, firm and sturdy. Faith shouldn't be like a pile of ashes which seems to have some substance to it but which crumbles at the slightest disturbance. Don't be too soft. One's faith must be strong and solid." (HD 44 45)
THE IMPORTANCE OF FAITH
"Faith is the foundation of cultivation of the Way and the mother of merit and virtue, because it is capable of nourishing wholesome roots. The Buddhadharma is like a vast sea; only by faith can it be entered. Therefore, the single word 'faith' is the essence of escape from birth and death and is the wonderful means for returning to the source. It is a precious raft on the stream of affliction, a torch in the dark cave of ignorance, and a guide who leads us out of the path of confusion. It is a compass for those floundering in the waves on the sea of suffering, and a sagely teacher for those in the Three Paths (Arhat, Pratyekabuddha, and Bodhisattva) and Eight Difficulties ( ). It is the origin of awakening for the Four Kinds of Creatures born (from wombs, eggs, moisture, and transformation) within the Six Paths (see entry). Faith cannot be ignored. An author of ancient times said, 'If a man has no faith, I do not know what can be made of him.'
"Once two bhikshus were travelling to see Shakyamuni Buddha, the World-Honored One. As they travelled they became extremely thirsty but could not find any water. As they walked they happened upon a human skull containing water in which some small bugs were swimming, enjoying themselves tremendously. One of the bhikshus picked up the water and offered some to his companion. The companion replied, 'This water contains bugs, and the moral precepts do not permit drinking such water. I would rather die of thirst than to violate the precepts in order to stay alive.' After this incident he died of thirst.
"When the bhikshu who had drunk the water reached the place where the Buddha was residing, he bowed and said to the Lord, 'Your disciple was travelling in the company of another bhikshu who perished of thirst on the road. I hope the Buddha will be compassionate and rescue him.'
"The Buddha said to the bhikshu who had drunk the water, 'Because he stringently maintained the moral precepts and was so firm in his faith that he would not violate them even in the face of death, he received the awesome power of the Buddhas and arrived here before you. He has already seen the Buddha and heard the Dharma before you. He is a bhikshu who has true faith in the precepts." (WM 53-54; also S42 75-76)
/\ -
Hehe, I think you missed out something about the emperor's motivation.Originally posted by maggot:Merit that cannot be seen and measure
Measure with what standard? who's standard?
Who can be trusted that they can see the future?
Still remembers that "Da mo" or the first patriach say that building temples, taking care of monks and giving donations have no merit what so ever to the emperor at his time in china
My last sentence above seems to diminish the merit system but there's a need to say it out -
Ask you har yamizi:Originally posted by yamizi:There you go!
1) If the tooth is fake, what would you do?
2) If the tooth is real, what would you do?
Care to share your views? -
Originally posted by aloka:
exactly my point, thank you very much!
Just to share that Lord Buddha was a Fully Enlightened Being and is not an ordinary being like us, both in mind and body. He possessed signs of a Great Man. So to compare him to us, ordinary beings, is too presumptous.
The 32 signs of the Great Man
There are 32 main characteristics (Pali: Lakkhana Mahapurisa 32):
1. He has feet with a level sole (Pali: supati thapado). Note: "feet with level
tread,/ so that he places his foot evenly on the ground,/ lifts it evenly,/ and touches the ground evenly with the entire sole." (Lakkhana Sutta)
2.He has wheel marks on soles (Pali: he thapadatalesu cakkani jatani).
3.He has projecting heels (Pali: ayatapa ni).
4.He has long fingers and toes (Pali: digha nguli).
5.His hands and feet are soft-skinned (Pali: mudutalahathapado).
6.He has netlike lines on palms and soles (Pali: jalahathapado).
7.He has high raised ankles (Pali: ussa nkhapado).
8.He has taut calf muscles like an antelope (Pali: e nimigasadisaja ngho).
9.He can touch his knees without bending (Pali: thitako va anonamanto).
10.His sexual organs are concealed in a sheath (Pali: kosohitavatguyho).
11.His complexion is bright, the color of gold (Pali: suva n nava no). Note: "His body is more fair than all/ the Gods he seems, great Indra's like" (Lakkhana Sutta).
12.His skin is so fine that no dust can attach to it (Pali: sukhumacchavi).
13.His body hairs are separate with one hair per pore (Pali: ekekalomo).
14.His body hair is bluish and curls clockwise (Pali: uddhagalomo).
15.He has a godlike upright stance (Pali: brahmujugatto).
16.He has the seven convexities of the flesh (Pali: satusado). Note: "the seven convex surfaces,/ on both hands, both feet, both shoulders, and his trunk." (Lakkhana Sutta)
17.He has a chest like a lion's (Pali: sihapuba dhakayo).
18.There is no hollow between his shoulders (Pali: pitantara mso).
19.The distance from hand-to-hand and head-to-toe is equal (Pali: nigrodhaparima n dalo). Note: incidentally, these are also the ideal proportions according to Leonardo Da VinciÂ’s Vitruvian Man.
20.He has a round and smooth neck (Pali: samva d dakhando).
21.He has sensitive taste-buds (Pali: rasagasagi).
[b]22.His jaw is like a lion's (Pali: sihahanu).
23.He has 40 teeth (Pali: cata.lisadanto). Note: The average person normally has 32 teeth.
24.His teeth are evenly spaced (Pali: samadanto).
25.His teeth are without gaps in-between (Pali: avira ladanto). 26.He has crystal-like canine teeth (Pali: sukadanto). 27.He has a large, long tongue (Pali: pahutajivho).
28.He has a voice like a BrahmanÂ’s (Pali: brahmasaro hiravikabha ni).
29.He has very blue eyes (Pali: abhi nila netto). Note 1: "very (abhi) blue (nila) eyes (netto)" is the literal translation, although it has been interpreted variously as actually blue, or possibly blue-black. Nila is the word used to describe a sapphire and the color of the sea, but also the color of a rain cloud. It also defines the color of the Hindu God Krishna. Note 2: "His lashes are like a cow's; his eyes are blue./ Those who know such things declare/ 'A child which such fine eyes/ will be one who's looked upon with joy./ If a layman, thus he'll be/ Pleasing to the sight of all./ If ascetic he becomes,/ Then loved as healer of folk's woes.'" (Lakkhana Sutta)
30.His eyes are like a cow's (Pali: gopa mukho). Note: Probably refers to large eyes and long eyelashes.
31.He has a white soft wisp of hair in the center of the brow (Pali: una loma bhamukantare jata). Note: this became the symbolic urna.
32.His head is like a royal turban (Pali: u nahisiso).
The 80 secondary characteristics
There are also 80 secondary characteristics (Pali: Anubyanjana):
He has beautiful fingers and toes.
He has well-proportioned fingers and toes.
He has tube-shaped fingers and toes.
His fingernails and toenails have a rosy tint.
His fingernails and toenails are slightly upturned at the tip.
His fingernails and toenails are smooth and rounded without ridges.
His ankles and wrists are rounded and undinted.
His both feet are equal length.
He has a beautiful gait, like that of a king-elephant.
He has a stately gait, like that of a king-lion.
He has a beautiful gait, like that of a swan.
He has a majestic gait, like that of a royal ox.
His right foot leads when walking.
His knees have no protruding kneecaps.
He has the demeanour of a great man.
His navel is without blemish.
He has a deep-shaped abdomen.
He has clockwise marks on the abdomen.
His thighs are rounded like banana sheafs.
His two arms are shaped like an elephant's trunk.
The lines on the palms of his hands have a rosy tint.
His skin is thick or thin as it should be.
His skin is unwrinkled.
His body is spotless and without lumps.
His body is unblemished above and below.
His body is absolutely free of impurities.
He has the strength of 1,000 crore elephants or 100,000 crore men. Note: A crore is equal to 10 millions.
He has a protruding nose.
His nose is well proportioned.
His upper and lower lips are equal in size and have a rosy tint.
His teeth are unblemished and with no plaque.
His teeth are long like polished conches.
His teeth are smooth and without ridges.
His five sense-organs are unblemished.
His four canine teeth are crystal and rounded.
His face is long and beautiful.
His cheeks are radiant.
The lines on his palms are deep.
The lines on his palms are long.
The lines on his palms are straight.
The lines on his palms have a rosy tint.
His body emanates a halo of light extending around him for two meters.
His cheek cavities are fully rounded and smooth.
His eyelids are well proportioned.
The five nerves of his eyes are unblemished.
The tips of his bodily hair are neither curved nor bent.
He has a rounded tongue.
His tongue is soft and has a rosy-tint.
His ears are long like lotus petals.
His earholes are beautifully rounded.
His sinews and tendons don't stick out.
His sinews and tendons are deeply embedded in the flesh.
His topknot is like a crown.
His forehead is well-proportioned in length and breadth.
His forehead is rounded and beautiful.
His eyebrows are arched like a bow.
The hair of his eyebrows is fine.
The hair of his eyebrows lies flat.
He has large brows.
His brows reach the outward corner of his eyes.
His skin is fine throughout his body.
His whole body has abundant signs of good fortune.
His body is always radiant.
His body is always refreshed like a lotus flower.
His body is exquisitely sensitive to touch.
His body has the scent of sandalwood.
His body hair is consistent in length.
He has fine bodily hair.
His breath is always fine.
His mouth always has a beautiful smile.
His mouth has the scent of a lotus flower.
His hair has the colour of a dark shadow.
His hair is strongly scented.
His hair has the scent of a white lotus.
He has curled hair.
His hair does not turn grey.
He has fine hair.
His hair is untangled.
His hair has long curls.
He has a topknot as if crowned with a flower garland.
Source :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_characteristics_of_the_Buddha#The_32_signs_of_the_Great_Man
Just Practise, practise, practise the great teachings of Lord Buddha.
May All Sentient Beings Be Well and Happy.[/b] -
So I understand that Buddhism cannot be scientifically studied otherwise it can stand up to any experimental test.
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If it is fake, then I will post the report to as many mediums as possible. This is to prevent future abuse of the Sakyamuni Buddha's name.Originally posted by oldkid:Ask you har yamizi:
1) If the tooth is fake, what would you do?
2) If the tooth is real, what would you do?
Care to share your views?
If it is real, then there's nothing for me to do since they have been always publicize it to be real.
=) -
Ok, thanks for your reply.Originally posted by yamizi:If it is fake, then I will post the report to as many mediums as possible. This is to prevent future abuse of the Sakyamuni Buddha's name.
If it is real, then there's nothing for me to do since they have been always publicize it to be real.
=) -
I see many postings and lengthy discourses on Faith and the nature of Buddha. Perhaps, separate threads would be more helpful and focused. More discussions on the truth of the tooth, how the sangha and lay should react, and also response to the many comments in the papers and TV news.
Trying to 'eklat' the question, just like the monk who 'conveniently' disappear, by talking so much about faith, etc. simply demonstrates diversion not critical discussion! -
HiOriginally posted by bohiruci:may you be liberated by your tormented view .I am not interested to talk to you
begone
Sorry ..but you sound rude & un-buddhist like
rgds -
Yes...the emphasis in Buddhism is on seeing, knowing and understanding truth not blindly believing ...Originally posted by maggot:Buddhism is not about fear
But to know the naked truth
People need to know the truth about this in time
Be it the hard way or the other
Have no fear
Open your eyes and "heart" and see the truth
The argument has begun even before the construction of the temple
Buddha made no use of fear or distorted views regarding natural phenomena to support his religion. Neither did he ask for blind faith or demand unnecessary rites and rituals or the imposition of penalties or commandments in the building up of Buddhism.
i think pples hav the right to authenticate the relics since they hav donated so much.Don just believe...investigate and see for ourselves...that's the advice from buddha... -
Thank you so much for posting this extract of the sutta which is most relevant in this Tooth relic discussion.Originally posted by aloka:MN 58
Abhaya Sutta
To Prince Abhaya
(On Right Speech)
Translated from the Pali by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu PTS: M i 392
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Source: Transcribed from a file provided by the translator.
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Translator's Introduction
In this discourse, the Buddha shows the factors that go into deciding what is and is not worth saying. The main factors are three: whether or not a statement is true, whether or not it is beneficial, and whether or not it is pleasing to others.
The Buddha himself would state only those things that are true and beneficial, and would have a sense of time for when pleasing and unpleasing things should be said. Notice that the possibility that a statement might be untrue yet beneficial is not even entertained.
This discourse also shows, in action, the Buddha's teaching on the four categories of questions and how they should be answered (see AN 4.42).
The prince asks him two questions, and in both cases he responds first with a counter-question, before going on to give an analytical answer to the first question and a categorical answer to the second. Each counter-question serves a double function: to give the prince a familiar reference point for understanding the answer about to come, and also to give him a chance to speak of his own intelligence and good motives. This provides him with the opportunity to save face after being stymied in his desire to best the Buddha in argument.
The Commentary notes that the prince had placed his infant son on his lap as a cheap debater's trick: if the Buddha had put him in an uncomfortable spot in the debate, the prince would have pinched his son, causing him to cry and thus effectively bringing the debate to a halt. The Buddha, however, uses the infant's presence to remove any sense of a debate and also to make an effective point. Taking Nigantha Nataputta's image of a dangerous object stuck in the throat, he applies it to the infant, and then goes on to make the point that, unlike the Niganthas — who were content to leave someone with a potentially lethal object in the throat — the Buddha's desire is to remove such objects, out of sympathy and compassion. In this way, he brings the prince over to his side, converting a potential opponent into a disciple.
Thus this discourse is not only about right speech, but also shows right speech in action.
Extracted from :
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.058.than.html I hope all of us would take time to read carefully and contemplate over what is written. Then, practise accordingly.
I've also posted another extract of the same passage ( also prepared by Thanissaro Bhikkhu, Noble Conversation ) yesterday morning in Daily Buddhism Verses ( maybe easier to digest ):
[1] In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be unfactual, untrue, unbeneficial, unendearing & disagreeable to others, he doesn't say them.
[2] In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be factual, true, unbeneficial, unendearing & disagreeable to others, he doesn't says them.
[[3] In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be factual, true, beneficial, but unendearing & disagreeable to others, he has a sense of the proper time of saying them.
[4] In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be unfactual, untrue, unbeneficial, but endearing & agreeable to others, he doesn't says them.
[5] In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be factual, true, unbeneficial, but endearing & agreeable to others, he doesn't says them.
[6] In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be factual, true, beneficial, and endearing & agreeable to others, he has a sense of the proper time for saying them. Why is that? Because the Tathagata has sympathy for living beings.
~ MN 58 -
Thank you for sharing too.
Let us remind ourselves that when the Tooth Relic was exhibited by GPBT in 2002, visitors were given a brochure (please see the link below).
http://www.sarimuseum.com/buddha_sari_4.htm
It was stated that when the Mynmese Abbot who discovered the relic "compared it with a100-year old tooth relic that already existed in his monastery, to his surprise, he discovered that it was similar to the famous tooth relic from Sri Lanka. He immediately realized the significance of the new find."
Do take a close look at the 2 photographs (1 of the Sri Lanka relic and the other one GPBT).
May All Sentient Beings Be Well and Happy.