Is Buddha tooth here the real McCoy?
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Originally posted by neutral_onliner:
Very well-said =)
My answer is also 4, 6 and 7
For all buddhists & non buddhists
The Buddha warned strongly against blind faith and encouraged the way of truthful inquiry. In one of His best known sermons, the [b]Kalama Sutta, the Buddha pointed out the danger in fashioning one's beliefs merely on the following grounds: on hearsay, on tradition, because many others say it is so, on the authority of ancient scriptures, on the word of a supernatural being, or out of trust in one's teachers, elders, or priests. Instead one maintains an open mind and thoroughly investigates one's own experience of life. When one sees for oneself that a particular view agrees with both experience and reason, and leads to the happiness of one and all, then one should accept that view and live up to it!
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Originally posted by neutral_onliner:
This is very well-said!!! Rejoice!
My answer is also 4, 6 and 7
For all buddhists & non buddhists
The Buddha warned strongly against blind faith and encouraged the way of truthful inquiry. In one of His best known sermons, the [b]Kalama Sutta, the Buddha pointed out the danger in fashioning one's beliefs merely on the following grounds: on hearsay, on tradition, because many others say it is so, on the authority of ancient scriptures, on the word of a supernatural being, or out of trust in one's teachers, elders, or priests. Instead one maintains an open mind and thoroughly investigates one's own experience of life. When one sees for oneself that a particular view agrees with both experience and reason, and leads to the happiness of one and all, then one should accept that view and live up to it!
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Of course! That is why based on appeareance the tooth will give the impression that it does not belongs to a human and it will lead us, including me to thinking that it is fake. Of course I will think that it is fake too!Originally posted by yamizi:Haha you're not concern but definitely the dentist would have already given you enough points to allow you to have the impression that it is ____ .
That is a THINKING too =)
Only dead people can't think right hehe.
But once again it lack empirical data to certify its origin, human or non-human. As what Neutral Onliner had posted, we must continue our search in the truth, this I agree very much. But now, we simply lack the resources and conditions to continue the search. I don't think they would simply let the public test the tooth. Hehe, as long as it is not tested, it remains half hanging in the sky.
To summarise, I will THINK that the tooth is fake. But I will not accept the tooth as REAL or FAKE until proven so. This will be my second thinking to counter the 1st to prevent myself of believing in hearsay or tradition.
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Originally posted by TheGoodEarth:
You have got yourself into a hole. First, you didn't answer the question posed by [b]yamizi. You were EVASIVE. That is not even using your brain - how to talk about thinking?
I do not just placed my faith or trust on the experts. I used my knowledge, common-sense and inference. Most of all, I used what the Dhamma taught me - to seek the truth, not just blindly believing, even if a monk told me so!
Looks like your answer is: it does not resemble human tooth, therefore, it is Buddha's. ?????[/b]
My answer is still the same: It does not resemble a human tooth. -
Just want to say thank you to Yamizi and a few of the posters on this thread for really looking into the matter of the said subject without prejudice or the intention of winning an argument or twisting or diverting the truth of Buddism.
Thank you Yamizi for your insightful and intelligent posting.
May the buddhas, bodhisattvas and devas blessed you well for sharing. -
I am not trying to be difficult or to agitate: I take it that your answer means the tooth is not human, and as such is not the Buddha's. This is by inference, not by any test. I respect the position you wish to take.Originally posted by oldkid:
My answer is still the same: It does not resemble a human tooth.
For me, I just want to know the truth. And the truth has set me free. That is the kind of Liberation I am concerned with. I don't want to be deluded and I face fact squarely and would not hesitate to change my position. If I had believed that the Earth was flat, and when proven otherwise, I will change my position. This is not a sign of weakness. On the contrary, it is a sign of strength & courage.
Also, for me the authencity of the tooth is over. What I am curious now is how the Buddhist community reacts? -
I couldn't stop laughing when I see your signature. Really brings a big fat smile on my face.Originally posted by LustyLucille:Just want to say thank you to Yamizi and a few of the posters on this thread for really looking into the matter of the said subject without prejudice or the intention of winning an argument or twisting or diverting the truth of Buddism.
Thank you Yamizi for your insightful and intelligent posting.
May the buddhas, bodhisattvas and devas blessed you well for sharing. -
With reference to the answer I had given to yamazi, I will THINK that the tooth is fake. But I will not accept the tooth as REAL or FAKE until proven so. This will be my second thinking to counter the 1st to prevent myself of believing in hearsay or tradition.Originally posted by TheGoodEarth:I am not trying to be difficult or to agitate: I take it that your answer means the tooth is not human, and as such is not the Buddha's. This is by inference, not by any test. I respect the position you wish to take.
For me, I just want to know the truth. And the truth has set me free. That is the kind of Liberation I am concerned with. I don't want to be deluded and I face fact squarely and would not hesitate to change my position. If I had believed that the Earth was flat, and when proven otherwise, I will change my position. This is not a sign of weakness. On the contrary, it is a sign of strength & courage.
Also, for me the authencity of the tooth is over. What I am curious now is how the Buddhist community reacts? -
Thank you for your kind words.Originally posted by LustyLucille:Just want to say thank you to Yamizi and a few of the posters on this thread for really looking into the matter of the said subject without prejudice or the intention of winning an argument or twisting or diverting the truth of Buddism.
Thank you Yamizi for your insightful and intelligent posting.
May the buddhas, bodhisattvas and devas blessed you well for sharing.
May you be always in the Grace of the Noble Triplegem. =) -
This is the sian part. Apparently the organisation in questioned chose a 'smart' move by keeping quiet.Originally posted by oldkid:Of course! That is why based on appeareance the tooth will give the impression that it does not belongs to a human and it will lead us, including me to thinking that it is fake. Of course I will think that it is fake too! But once again it lack empirical data to certify its origin, human or non-human. As what Neutral Onliner had posted, we must continue our search in the truth, this I agree very much. But now, we simply lack the resources and conditions to continue the search. I don't think they would simply let the public test the tooth. Hehe, as long as it is not tested, it remains half hanging in the sky.
To summarise, I will THINK that the tooth is fake. But I will not accept the tooth as REAL or FAKE until proven so. This will be my second thinking to counter the 1st to prevent myself of believing in hearsay or tradition.
But however, it will be the benefit of Buddhism if people would to be like oldkid not to accept it as either true or fake.
At least not accepting it as a real would not amount to contributing to the distortion of the Dhamma and Buddhist History.
Hehe, before you say how I prove it to be fake, because in scripture-wise, it is not possible to have a 4th tooth relic (Ven Hsingyun claimed to have a 3rd one, it caused much of a contraversy back then as well).
I think the BTRT official website referred to some other temples in the world with relics, yes some claimed to have relics, some is finger-relic, some is replica tooth relic. Don't be misled by it. =) -
Looking at this issue and reading the posts, I get the impression that relic is an important aspect of Buddhism.
I suggest that a new thread be started to talk about relics in Buddhism so that this thread remains for those who has question on the authencity of the tooth. -
Originally posted by TheGoodEarth:
Hi TheGoodEarth,
Looking at this issue and reading the posts, I get the impression that [b]relic is an important aspect of Buddhism.
I suggest that a new thread be started to talk about relics in Buddhism so that this thread remains for those who has question on the authencity of the tooth. [/b]
Let me give you a new impression.
The Four Noble Truths, Eightfold Paths, Ten Virtuous Deeds and the twelve links of Dependent Arising are the important aspect of Buddhism. -
Well saidOriginally posted by oldkid:Hi TheGoodEarth,
Let me give you a new impression.
The Four Noble Truths, Eightfold Paths, Ten Virtuous Deeds and the twelve links of Dependent Arising are the important aspect of Buddhism. 
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Originally posted by yamizi:
This is the sian part. Apparently the organisation in questioned chose a 'smart' move by keeping quiet.
Silence is an admission of ?
But however, it will be the benefit of Buddhism if people would to be like oldkid not to accept it as either true or fake.
Being neutral is being nice but not honest. This is taking the middle path to nowhere! For example: a path either leads to the right house or not. No such thing as leading to neither the right house nor the wrong house! If this is the case, then stepping on the path was already a mistake! -
Thanks for sharing your views TheGoodEarth. You made me reflect alot and contemplate alot and my faith in the Triple Gems grows immensely! Thanks once again!
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There's nothing to thank me for. I just speak my mind with clarity - like a kid, actually!Originally posted by oldkid:Thanks for sharing your views TheGoodEarth. You made me reflect alot and contemplate alot and my faith in the Triple Gems grows immensely! Thanks once again! -
How many is uncountable? So far, there is still inconclusive proof of enlightenment of whole civilizations throughout history. Hence the dharma is falliable and therefore there is no truth out there.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Almost missed this post.
I have always said, Buddhism is a scientific method. You need to have confidence that the triple gems will lead you to enlightenment, since uncountable others have done it even today and you can do it too, and practise the dharma. Then see the truths of the Buddha's teachings yourself.
I never said anything about blind faith. I think this is a topic adequately elaborated by a few forummers here. -
I never said the enlightenment of the whole of civilizations. I am talking about the enlightenment of an individual.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:How many is uncountable? So far, there is still inconclusive proof of enlightenment of whole civilizations throughout history. Hence the dharma is falliable and therefore there is no truth out there.
And what link has that got to do with whether the dharma is falliable or not?
And just because you are ignorant doesn't mean there is no truth out there. You just didn't bother to find, choosing rather to be the frog in the well. -
If civilizations are huge collectives of individuals, then it is a very big experiment of social-religious idealogy. Thus it is capable proof of the fallancy or accuracy of dharma.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:I never said the enlightenment of the whole of civilizations. I am talking about the enlightenment of an individual.
And what link has that got to do with whether the dharma is falliable or not?
And just because you are ignorant doesn't mean there is no truth out there. You just didn't bother to find, choosing rather to be the frog in the well.
Just because there is the obvious truth in front of you, you can always choose to cover your eyes with 2 leaves so as not to admit that truth. -
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
Unfortunately you forgot that out of all the Buddhists out there, only a handful is really interested in practise and finding the truth for himself.
If civilizations are huge collectives of individuals, then it is a very big experiment of social-religious idealogy. Thus it is capable proof of the fallancy or accuracy of dharma.
There's little outcome if you just put a scientist's costume and do no experiment.Just because there is the obvious truth in front of you, you can always choose to cover your eyes with 2 leaves so as not to admit that truth.
Exactly. That is why so many people choose to remain dogmatic and hold onto their tightly held beliefs and not look deeper.
Buddha tell people to let go of any sort of these dogmatism and look deeper, stop being blinded anymore. -
The "Four Reliances" as expounded by Lord Buddha:
"Rely on the message of the teacher and not on his personality;
Rely on the meaning, not just the words;
Rely on the real meaning; and not on provisional one;
Rely on your wisdom and not on your ordinary judgement mind." -
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
How many centuries Buddhism has been around and yet, to the whole wide world, Man at large knows that Buddhism is a fallancy.
[quote:
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Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
If civilizations are huge collectives of individuals, then it is a very big experiment of social-religious idealogy. Thus it is capable proof of the fallancy or accuracy of dharma.
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Unfortunately you forgot that out of all the Buddhists out there, only a handful is really interested in practise and finding the truth for himself.
There's little outcome if you just put a scientist's costume and do no experiment.
quote:
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Just because there is the obvious truth in front of you, you can always choose to cover your eyes with 2 leaves so as not to admit that truth.
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Exactly. That is why so many people choose to remain dogmatic and hold onto their tightly held beliefs and not look deeper.
Buddha tell people to let go of any sort of these dogmatism and look deeper, stop being blinded anymore.[/b]
Did the Buddha ever tell you to go lie to yourself? -
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
Honestly, I think sometimes (edit: MOST of the time) you just spout out garbage without thinking. These kind of statements obviously have no value at all other than to insult others.
How many centuries Buddhism has been around and yet, to the whole wide world, Man at large knows that Buddhism is a fallancy.
That's like saying how many years that herzog has been around in sgforums and yet, to the whole sgForummers, everyone at large knows herzog is just a midget. Or: Herzog has been around for many years and yet, to the whole wide world, everyone at large just knows that herzog is just a stupid asshole.
I can only pity your ignorance, narrow minded, dogmatism, and your biasness. You seem not interested to find the truth, only to criticize baselessly. To summarise: you love trolling around. If you are just here to make nonsense and useless postings like "Buddhism sucks" "Everyone knows Buddhism sucks" "Buddhism is not real", and not interested to discuss the Dharma, then honestly, there is no point talking to you at all.
Like the warnings we always hear: Don't feed the trolls. Why? Pointless and a waste of time.
BTW, contrary to what you said, I can accurately say that man at large knows that Buddhism contains lots of TRUTH -- having hundreds of millions of followers. The rest simply is ignorant of what Buddhism is about -- i.e they come from different religious background or are simply not interested to find out about spirituality at that point in life.
And when Buddhism by itself is a scientific method to realise the Reality that Buddhas and countless other practitioners have realised, you have no reasons at all to say that it is a fallacy. That is just based on pure dogmatism and completely unscientific. -
Number 1, I don't troll and I do state immutable facts for presentation. Number 2, Buddhism has been around for countless centuries and yet, which society of human individuals actually responded to Buddha Dharma as a whole? Hence it is a proven fallancy that Buddhism is a suitable religion for every man. AEN chose to present otherwise, a falsehood and hide it behind scriptural facts.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Honestly, I think sometimes (edit: MOST of the time) you just spout out garbage without thinking. These kind of statements obviously have no value at all other than to insult others.
That's like saying how many years that herzog has been around in sgforums and yet, to the whole sgForummers, everyone at large knows herzog is just a midget. Or: Herzog has been around for many years and yet, to the whole wide world, everyone at large just knows that herzog is just a stupid asshole.
I can only pity your ignorance, narrow minded, dogmatism, and your biasness. You seem not interested to find the truth, only to criticize baselessly. To summarise: you love trolling around. If you are just here to make nonsense and useless postings like "Buddhism sucks" "Everyone knows Buddhism sucks" "Buddhism is not real", and not interested to discuss the Dharma, then honestly, there is no point talking to you at all.
Like the warnings we always hear: Don't feed the trolls. Why? Pointless and a waste of time.
BTW, contrary to what you said, I can accurately say that man at large knows that Buddhism contains lots of TRUTH -- having hundreds of millions of followers. The rest simply is ignorant of what Buddhism is about -- i.e they come from different religious background or are simply not interested to find out about spirituality at that point in life.
And when Buddhism by itself is a scientific method to realise the Reality that Buddhas and countless other practitioners have realised, you have no reasons at all to say that it is a fallacy. That is just based on pure dogmatism and completely unscientific.
Number 3, AEN purposefully and wilfully state false facts about other religious groups without checking the accruracy of his accusations. If in doubt, kindly check with MDA, the registrar of Societies or the Singapore Police Force -
Number 1: You are a troll. No questions about that. You post to irk and offend, not to clarify and discuss. Your so called "immutable" facts are often cryptic, unsupported one-liners that masks your ignorance.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:Number 1, I don't troll and I do state immutable facts for presentation. Number 2, Buddhism has been around for countless centuries and yet, which society of human individuals actually responded to Buddha Dharma as a whole? Hence it is a proven fallancy that Buddhism is a suitable religion for every man. AEN chose to present otherwise, a falsehood and hide it behind scriptural facts.
Number 3, AEN purposefully and wilfully state false facts about other religious groups without checking the accruracy of his accusations. If in doubt, kindly check with MDA, the registrar of Societies or the Singapore Police Force
Number 2: A lot of countries and people do not have the opportunity to hear of the dharma, let alone practise it.
Number 3: Not true. If AEN makes a statement about other religions. He always cross reference the religious texts and also stated that he is not an expert on this subject (this humility alone will probably take you a eon or two to cultivate). More importantly, and unlike you, he does not portray the other religious groups in a bad light.