Karma
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Time to rephrase your questions into proper English, else the Ang Moh students catch no balls.Originally posted by soemt:sorry a stray thought from the topic.
but just wondering if anyone else saw these questions that follow:
what is real? what is not? are words real? ideas? is real really real?
Please define reality and virtual-reality. Are words real? How about ideas? Is reality real?
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Let me try to answer...Originally posted by soemt:sorry a stray thought from the topic.
but just wondering if anyone else saw these questions that follow:
what is real? what is not? are words real? ideas? is real really real?
This answer can be quite tricky. Because if we think that there is SOMETHING which is real, we already have a concept of there being a tangible thing that has inherent existence, something real and graspable...
But countless experience will tell us no such thing exist -- everything is utterly transient, dependent originated. There is no being or non-being, no inherent existence, to be found anywhere at all! There is no graspable thing any where -- emptiness is the nature of all things.
Then what is real? Emptiness is not a void -- otherwise that would be nihilism. The heart of emptiness is luminous clarity, and this luminous clarity pervades everywhere in our moment to moment experience. Our luminous nature gives us the sense of realness... everything we touch we, we feel, is an expression of Awareness, of our luminous clarity.
Yet nothing can be grasped! There is nothing you can point to and say "this thing is real because I felt it", the moment you say that you conceptualise what is Empty and Ungraspable and fall into illusion and duality.
Our true nature, our REAL nature, is luminous-emptiness inseparable. Can you say there is something that is real? No... because Luminosity and Emptiness is inseparable. Yet luminous means clarity and awareness... we are not just a machine.
So are words and ideas real? They are only real in the relative sense, and they are useful with important role in daily living. We cannot run away from conceptual frameworks, but as practitioners we must never be fooled by them... and do away with the layers of conceptuality in our meditative practise. To be naked in awareness. -
What luminous clarity? Is your clarity lighted up?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Let me try to answer...
This answer can be quite tricky. Because if we think that there is SOMETHING which is real, we already have a concept of there being a tangible thing that has inherent existence, something real and graspable...
But countless experience will tell us no such thing exist -- everything is utterly transient, dependent originated. There is no being or non-being, no inherent existence, to be found anywhere at all! There is no graspable thing any where -- emptiness is the nature of all things.
Then what is real? Emptiness is not a void -- otherwise that would be nihilism. The heart of emptiness is luminous clarity, and this luminous clarity pervades everywhere in our moment to moment experience. Our luminous nature gives us the sense of realness... everything we touch we, we feel, is an expression of Awareness, of our luminous clarity.
Yet nothing can be grasped! There is nothing you can point to and say "this thing is real because I felt it", the moment you say that you conceptualise what is Empty and Ungraspable and fall into illusion and duality.
Our true nature, our REAL nature, is luminous-emptiness inseparable. Can you say there is something that is real? No... because Luminosity and Emptiness is inseparable. Yet luminous means clarity and awareness... we are not just a machine.
So are words and ideas real? They are only real in the relative sense, and they are useful with important role in daily living. We cannot run away from conceptual frameworks, but as practitioners we must never be fooled by them... and do away with the layers of conceptuality in our meditative practise. To be naked in awareness. -
Luminosity never fails to arise. It is never lost in samsara and never gained in Nirvana. However, to awaken to that -- luminous-emptiness inseparable, which is our Buddha Nature, is enlightenment.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:What luminous clarity? Is your clarity lighted up?
Excerpt:
Participant 1: The question is “Does that mean that we try to practise the right conditions such as meditation for the mind in order to let the luminosity to arise.”
Thusness: Luminosity will always arise. It never fails to arise. Now, let me tell you what is luminosity in the simplest sense. Have you ever experienced suffering? Or you experience anything. Suffering... Suffering is actually luminosity. Otherwise how do you know it is suffering? Why the pain is so real? Anything that is real, that you feel, that you touch, anything that you feel so real. It is actually luminosity. How can you know what suffering is all about? Without thoughts or what, you still feel suffering, right? The presence of suffering, any kind of existence that is made available is actually the manifestation of this luminous clarity. You get it? However, they are fused with the momentum. They are fused with attachment. And the entire fusing and the entire working of the momentum, that instance, the manifestation is suffering. Everything is like that, you have to feel the pain. Can you understand what I mean or not? When you feel the sand, or you see the texture or you take the stone out, and the texture is so and so, that is actually luminosity also. -
What has suffering got to do with lighting up?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Luminosity never fails to arise. It is never lost in samsara and never gained in Nirvana. However, to awaken to that -- luminous-emptiness inseparable, which is our Buddha Nature, is enlightenment.
Excerpt:
Participant 1: The question is “Does that mean that we try to practise the right conditions such as meditation for the mind in order to let the luminosity to arise.”
Thusness: Luminosity will always arise. It never fails to arise. Now, let me tell you what is luminosity in the simplest sense. Have you ever experienced suffering? Or you experience anything. Suffering... Suffering is actually luminosity. Otherwise how do you know it is suffering? Why the pain is so real? Anything that is real, that you feel, that you touch, anything that you feel so real. It is actually luminosity. How can you know what suffering is all about? Without thoughts or what, you still feel suffering, right? The presence of suffering, any kind of existence that is made available is actually the manifestation of this luminous clarity. You get it? However, they are fused with the momentum. They are fused with attachment. And the entire fusing and the entire working of the momentum, that instance, the manifestation is suffering. Everything is like that, you have to feel the pain. Can you understand what I mean or not? When you feel the sand, or you see the texture or you take the stone out, and the texture is so and so, that is actually luminosity also. -
yeah, go to get use to metaphor.
1: a figure of speech in which a word or phrase literally denoting one kind of object or idea is used in place of another to suggest a likeness or analogy between them (as in drowning in money); broadly : figurative language — compare simile
the finger points to the moon. if you grasp at the finger, one wouldn't be able to see the moon.
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Found this from http://www.ahalmaas.com/glossary/t/true_nature.htm by 'A.H.Almaas':Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:What has suffering got to do with lighting up?* The first quality of true nature is that it is inseparable from awareness. Our true nature is inherently aware. This is the fact of luminosity, the fact of light, the fact of consciousness. We know this because when we experience any of the essential manifestations, we recognize that Being is (delete in) inseparable from some kind of awareness, sensitivity, in-touchness, or consciousness. Awareness is not something in addition to true nature; it is an inherent and inseparable characteristic of true nature, the way heat is inherent in and inseparable from fire.
Though this is (I feel) quite well written, there are aspects and characteristics of our true nature not mentioned by the author such as the essence of emptiness and non-locality. But that would be another topic.
* The second characteristic of true reality is that this field of awareness, this field of presence, is pervasive and infinite, and includes everything within it. In fact, it is a oneness, an indivisible unity. This is similar to the Buddhist notion of the “wisdom of equality or evenness.” The fact that there are patterns within the field does not mean there are discrete objects… The field is all one consciousness with different patterns in different places. So the entire soul is unitary as well. When we recognize true nature and we lose the sense of boundaries, we recognize that oneness pervades the whole universe. God has one mind.
* The third characteristic is that true nature is dynamic. Reality is moving and changing all the time. This is obvious when you notice that your perception of your inner experience – or of the whole world – is not a snapshot; it is a movie. It is inherently in a constant state of change and transformation. It is not a static presence. This is related the Buddhist notion of the “all-accomplishing wisdom.” Reality is a dynamic presence that is always changing through shifts in the manifest patterns. In fact, the presence of change is implicit in the fact of awareness; without it, there is no awareness.
* The openness of true nature is its fourth characteristic. Openness means an infinite number of possibilities – open to be anything, open to manifest as anything, unlimited in its potential. This is the indeterminacy and inexhaustibility that we discussed in the last chapter. Reality is always changing because its true nature is completely open. This is the space dimension of our Being: when you recognize true nature, you find it to be spacious. In other words spaciousness is inherent in the presence that is true nature. The whole universe is a deep mysterious nothingness, openness, lightness, and complete absence of any heaviness. And this very mysterious, delicate spaciousness has a luminosity inherent in it, a glimmer, a radiance that gives it (delete a) awareness of itself.
* The fifth major characteristic of true nature is that it is not only awareness, oneness, dynamism, and openness, but also knowingness. This is similar to the Buddhist notion of the “wisdom of discrimination,” or the discriminating awareness of the Buddha. It is inherent to essential presence that it is not only awareness of presence but simultaneously the discrimination of the particular quality of presence, such as Compassion or Peace. This knowingness is inherent to presence, inherent to the awareness of presence. (Spacecruiser Inquiry, pg 32)
But anyway what I'm trying to say is, luminosity is like light. The sun's rays pervades the entire Earth, lighting up everything so we can 'see'. The luminosity of our true Mind is similar, it is the characteristic of inherent awareness, everything we feel and touch and experience is luminosity.
If suffering is not an expression of luminosity, we cannot even feel suffering. Therefore suffering is also an expression of luminosity.
Another thing is that our True Mind experientially 'feels' like luminosity, it feels luminous. As Ajahn Brahmavamso said,
"...It is the mind manifesting, not a light, but for most it appears like a light, it is perceived as a light, because this imperfect description is the best that perception can offer..."
"....But there does come a time, and this is the Buddha's simile, when the moon is released from the clouds and there in the clear night sky you can see the beautiful full disc of the moon shining brilliantly, and you know that's the moon. The moon is there; the moon is real, and it's not just some sort of side effect of the clouds. This is what happens in meditation when you see the mind. You see clearly that the mind is not some side effect of the brain. You see the mind, and you know the mind. The Buddha said that the mind released is beautiful, is brilliant, is radiant. So not only are these blissful experiences, they're meaningful experiences as well...."
Longchen describes from his experience, "This brightness is the result of mind's deconstruction which allows for intense penetration into consciousness. The Brightness can be so intense that it is truly stunning."
Eckhart Tolle said regarding his 'Inner Body' practise (a form of vipassana-like mindfulness practise), "...The more attention you give it, the clearer and stronger this feeling will become. It will feel as if every cell is becoming more alive, and if you have a strong visual sense, you may get an image of your body becoming luminous."
And this is not just limited to 'every cell of the body', one who experiences non-duality experiences the intrinsic luminosity in every manifestations, obviously including suffering.
The Buddha said:
"Luminous is this mind,
Brightly shining, but it is
Colored by the attachments
That visit it.
This unlearned people do not
Really understand,
And so do not cultivate the
Mind.
Luminous is this mind,
Brightly shining,
And it is free of the
Attachments that visit it.
This the noble follower
Of the way really understands;
So for them there is
Cultivation of the mind.
- Anguttara Nikaya"
All phenomena are ultimately One Mind, luminous-emptiness inseparable, all are expression of Mind's luminosity. -
My Name Is Earl. And i do bad things. Now karma is coming around to whoop me.
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I really do not know weather or not karma exist. But sometimes, I think that I'll go crazy if i chose to think that karma does not exist.Originally posted by dokono:Is there such a thing as a bad karma? Does karma ever exist only in the mind?
How come some people do so many bad things only to experience no bad karma or even good karma as we call it ?
Any comments ?
doko
just imagine how chaotic this world will be without karma. you can do anything as long as you don't get caught by the police. people will kill each other and get away with it. and political tyrants...haiz -
btw I realised I have strayed very much from the topic of karma.
Karma and karmic effects are very real in the relative sense... Ultimately karma is empty, not void, but empty in the sense that it is conditioned arising. Many people have a false and nihlistic understanding of 'emptiness'... emptiness is not void, it just means that all things are conditioned arising, dependent originated arising.. with no self-subtance. But empty phenomena is also real -- the suffering and pain we feel from our karma is also real, it is conditioned arising and we can feel it... we are aware of it (luminous-emptiness).
So we must never never think that karma and karmic effects are false.... it is really very real and therefore we must never accumulate any negative karma... keep the 5 precepts and perform the 10 virtuous deeds.
We must avoid all that is evil, do all that is good, and purify our minds. That is the teachings of the Buddha.
p.s. Karma is FAR from being just an 'idea'!! It is the law of Cause & Effect, it is about Conditioned Arising. When there is cause and conditions, consequence and effect inevitably arises! This is an eternal law. -
What is three periods of karma?
http://www.jenchen.org.sg/vol6no2e.htm
The Three Periods refer to the past, present and future. This is the characteristic of time in this universe. When you understand the principle governing the past, present and future, then you will understand that causes (or actions) created in the past will bear fruit (or consequences) at some point in time. A phrase in Buddhism says, "Planting seeds of melon leads to harvesting melons; planting seeds of bean leads to harvesting beans". Therefore, we harvest sweet melons when we plant seeds of sweet melon. Similarly, we harvest bitter melons when we plant seeds of bitter melon. We cannot expect to harvest sweet fruits when bitter seeds have been planted, unless we alter the conditions in the process. For example, the only way that we can taste sweet apricots after having planted a wild apricot tree is to graft a stem of a sweet apricot tree on to the wild apricot tree.
It is the same with human beings. If in the past we have created evil causes by committing evil deeds, then in future we are bound to face with evil retributions. If we wish to receive joyful rewards, then we have to change the causes and conditions[1]. In this regard, learning and practising the Buddha's teachings is the best thing to do. Although we have done wrong in the past, we now realise our mistakes, let bygones be bygones, and from this moment on, do all that are good and virtuous. When we learn and practise the Buddha's teachings diligently, repent our wrong doings, and rectify and create virtuous causes and conditions, we will then reap virtuous rewards in the future. -
layered fruitionOriginally posted by An Eternal Now:What is three periods of karma?
http://www.jenchen.org.sg/vol6no2e.htm
The Three Periods refer to the past, present and future. This is the characteristic of time in this universe. When you understand the principle governing the past, present and future, then you will understand that causes (or actions) created in the past will bear fruit (or consequences) at some point in time. A phrase in Buddhism says, "Planting seeds of melon leads to harvesting melons; planting seeds of bean leads to harvesting beans". Therefore, we harvest sweet melons when we plant seeds of sweet melon. Similarly, we harvest bitter melons when we plant seeds of bitter melon. We cannot expect to harvest sweet fruits when bitter seeds have been planted, unless we alter the conditions in the process. For example, the only way that we can taste sweet apricots after having planted a wild apricot tree is to graft a stem of a sweet apricot tree on to the wild apricot tree.
It is the same with human beings. If in the past we have created evil causes by committing evil deeds, then in future we are bound to face with evil retributions. If we wish to receive joyful rewards, then we have to change the causes and conditions[1]. In this regard, learning and practising the Buddha's teachings is the best thing to do. Although we have done wrong in the past, we now realise our mistakes, let bygones be bygones, and from this moment on, do all that are good and virtuous. When we learn and practise the Buddha's teachings diligently, repent our wrong doings, and rectify and create virtuous causes and conditions, we will then reap virtuous rewards in the future.
as in Nagasena Bhikkhu teaching to King Milinda
the process is like that
delusion -> fruition -> suffering -> delusion ... and the cycles goes on
sever the delusion , though fruition will still come , but does not create suffering
so there are two suffering , Physical and Mental suffering .Which one does Buddhist practice eradicates ?
Mental Suffering
Physical Suffering is due to our existence in the human Realm
Note : We still will have blister when we walk long distance , but its the mental suffering Buddha have overcome
If Buddha can does that ,so do we -
Yes thats trueOriginally posted by bohiruci:layered fruition
as in Nagasena Bhikkhu teaching to King Milinda
the process is like that
delusion -> fruition -> suffering -> delusion ... and the cycles goes on
sever the delusion , though fruition will still come , but does not create suffering
so there are two suffering , Physical and Mental suffering .Which one does Buddhist practice eradicates ?
Mental Suffering
Physical Suffering is due to our existence in the human Realm
Note : We still will have blister when we walk long distance , but its the mental suffering Buddha have overcome
If Buddha can does that ,so do we
Thx for sharing.. -
i was just thinking. would it be better for a person to experience his bad karma in one life, rather than bring forward to the next. many born to suffer because of previous doings are very pitiful.
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Yes yes. Don't bring forward your karma to future lifetimes or worsen your karma through suicide, etc...Originally posted by jacqn:i was just thinking. would it be better for a person to experience his bad karma in one life, rather than bring forward to the next. many born to suffer because of previous doings are very pitiful.
Through dharma practise, you can remain liberated, karma effects arise and liberates on its own accords... that's the best way of clearing karma. -
I think it is meaningless to associate karma with next life as much as to associate hell and heaven with next life. To me, next life is not real - just another of our 'desire' to live forever like the ancient Emperor who wanted the elixir of life!
To me the only logical thing about karma is to help us do the right thing. The 'cause and effect' approach is far more superior than 'sinners and saviour' theology! -
Next life is just as real as this life, or yesterday, or tomorrow. So we must take future lifetimes into perspective as well, just as we need to take tomorrow into perspective to plan something or live our lives. (otherwise we'll just live like there's no tomorrow, literallyOriginally posted by TheGoodEarth:I think it is meaningless to associate karma with next life as much as to associate hell and heaven with next life. To me, next life is not real - just another of our 'desire' to live forever like the ancient Emperor who wanted the elixir of life!
To me the only logical thing about karma is to help us do the right thing. The 'cause and effect' approach is far more superior than 'sinners and saviour' theology! )
Those who have not yet seen his own past lives should keep an open mind. There are lots of people who have remembered past lives -- i.e meditators including a few from this forum who had even spoken about it in detail, and lots of others not in this forum, and even non-meditators.
Also, do read this -- Buddhism and Science. Ajahn Brahmavamso dealt with issues like rebirth as well, and said it very well.
http://www.bswa.org/modules/icontent/index.php?page=105
I wld also like to suggest those interested in terms of scientific research may want to seriously look into Dr Ian Stevenson's research. Really good. I posted this for one of the sceptics... his reply was I am pretty impressed by Stevenson the more I read. What impresses me most is the clearly limited range he is reaching for and his willingness to discuss the numerous problems and questions and that his work brings up. Its real science, unlike most "paranormal investigators".
Update: and No, Buddhists do not see rebirth as an 'elixer of life'. We do NOT seek continuity of rebirth, but the transcendence of the cycle of samsaric rebirth. -
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Next life is just as real as this life, or yesterday, or tomorrow. So we must take future lifetimes into perspective as well, just as we need to take tomorrow into perspective to plan something or live our lives. (otherwise we'll just live like there's no tomorrow, literally )
When you talk about tomorrow you are making an assumption: there is tomorrow and tomorrow comes. By that analogy you are assuming there is life after this one! The continuity you talked about. But is it for real? Has anyone left this life and come back again to tell us? Or is next life just a metaphor?
Those who have not yet seen his own past lives should keep an open mind. There are lots of people who have remembered past lives -- i.e meditators including a few from this forum who had even spoken about it in detail, and lots of others not in this forum, and even non-meditators.
If past lives can be recalled, it should be a COMMON occurence - like crossing the roads. You don't need to be a Buddhist or meditator or 'special' to do that. If it is just a phenomenon for a few people, it is no difference from miracles!
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When you talk about tomorrow you are making an assumption: there is tomorrow and tomorrow comes. By that analogy you are assuming there is life after this one! The continuity you talked about. But is it for real? Has anyone left this life and come back again to tell us? Or is next life just a metaphor?
Past lives, future lives, rebirth, is real and not just a metaphor.
And like I said previously -- there are many people who have experienced that and can testify. And there are evidence and research done on this subject.
And you can read up the articles and also do a research on Dr Ian Stevensons.
There are also other previous rebirth threads in sgforums, do look into them:
Belief in Reincarnation Tied to Memory Errors
why do people believe in past lives?
buddhism is alright but still faulty.....
what is buddhism evidence of reincarnation?
and many more.If past lives can be recalled, it should be a COMMON occurence - like crossing the roads. You don't need to be a Buddhist or meditator or 'special' to do that. If it is just a phenomenon for a few people, it is no difference from miracles!
No, it is not a common occurence because people tend to lose immediate memory after conception and birth. Imagine your brain getting knocked out and you lose your long term memory. Though it is possible to regain it back, it takes time and therapy.
Though, there are quite many young children who still have some memory and can what they said is proven to be true -- i.e whatever they remember of their past lives, is later found to be true, and he has no prior knowledge in this present lives.
Such memory is also available deep in our sub conscious in everybody, but requires techniques (such as meditation or other techniques) to retrieve those memories. -
Technically, rebirth seems to be an event that a few special people can only recall. Funny thing is that not all memories are accurate.Originally posted by TheGoodEarth: -
Funny thing is that I don't rely on memory. I am a simpleton who goes by this line: if it is real, there is no need for proof, miracle, assumption, memory, research. Gravity is real. Issac Newton didn't need a miracle or 'special' to note it. Nor was there any need for proof or research or assumption. I think if you tell people that there were extensive researches, discourses, recalling memories, theses or experiments to confirm the EXISTENCE of gravity - you will be a laughing stock in present day - but maybe not in the Dark Ages.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:Technically, rebirth seems to be an event that a few special people can only recall. Funny thing is that not all memories are accurate.
Today, there are people still living as though they are in the Dark Ages - a case of rebirth backward? -
Who said not all memories are accurate?Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:Technically, rebirth seems to be an event that a few special people can only recall. Funny thing is that not all memories are accurate.
It all depends on what you call past life memories. Some people even take dreams as being 'past life memories', of course that would not be very accurate because dreams may just be a recalling of recent events.
IF the past life memories are accessed through deep meditation, there is NO DOUBT at all that it is accurate, and you can actually go and find out.
Like I said many times -- past life memories recalled through meditation are NOT vague at all, not at all dream-like. They are more real than knowing we just had a cup of tea this morning! You can RE-LIVE the entire scene in your memory, that means not just remember vague visions, but 'BE' at that very scene at that time, as Thusness and Longchen said, remembering your past life not just in the mind but with your entire body.
So if you re-live memories such as fighting in a war, it will be a very traumatic experience because you are not just watching the scenes like a movie, you are actually re-living everything as if you are right there as the first person. That is the kind of ability we can get if we enter deeply into meditation absorptions.
You are making a very gross mistaken assumption. Obviously there are MANY things that requires research, study, experimenting, before we can find out the truth.Originally posted by TheGoodEarth:Funny thing is that I don't rely on memory. I am a simpleton who goes by this line: if it is real, there is no need for proof, miracle, assumption, memory, research. Gravity is real. Issac Newton didn't need a miracle or 'special' to note it. Nor was there any need for proof or research or assumption. I think if you tell people that there were extensive researches, discourses, recalling memories, theses or experiments to confirm the EXISTENCE of gravity - you will be a laughing stock in present day - but maybe not in the Dark Ages.
[color=red]Today, there are people still living as though they are in the Dark Ages - a case of rebirth backward?
Just a few hundred years ago, people thought that the Earth is flat. Furthermore, Earth is in the center of the solar system. Galileo proved otherwise but even so, people don't want to believe due to their dogmatism.
Similarly when evidence for rebirth is being published, it is very difficult for most people to accept it immediately due to a variety of dogmatism, and social and religious conditionings, similar to Galileo's case. Will take time. -
The bottom line I am trying to say is this: if it is real and it exists - there is no need for extensive researches, experiments, discourses and even arguments! Have you heard of people arguing over the existence of gravity?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:You are making a very gross mistaken assumption. Obviously there are MANY things that requires research, study, experimenting, before we can find out the truth.
NO, no assumption, you are mistaken. I was talking about existence of gravity specifically. Gravity exists and there was no need for research, discourse, experiment to prove existence of gravity.
Just a few hundred years ago, people thought that the Earth is flat. Furthermore, Earth is in the center of the solar system. Galileo proved otherwise but even so, people don't want to believe due to their dogmatism.
That we all know but it has nothing to do with my comment on 'real' and 'existence'. The earth wasn't flat - that is real and the earth exists as a sphere. Before Galileo's 'discoveries or observations', there were people who had already ventured beyond the horizon and didn't fall off the earth! Just like gravity, it took Newton to state the obvious ..... so did Galileo. But if people thought the earth was flat, that was the 'illusion' that science dispell later.
Similarly when evidence for rebirth is being published, it is very difficult for most people to accept it immediately due to a variety of dogmatism, and social and religious conditionings, similar to Galileo's case. Will take time.
The 'evidence' of rebirth is circumstantial, based on research about NDE - near death experience. The authority you quoted has also been debunked by other equally eminent researchers. -
are those kind of guy who do bad things and question why does ur life sucks?
it's karma baby, believe in karma. do good things and good thing will happen to you -
NO, no assumption, you are mistaken. I was talking about existence of gravity specifically. Gravity exists and there was no need for research, discourse, experiment to prove existence of gravity.
But the example of gravity is completely irrelevant to what are are discussing, as I have explained my previous reply.That we all know but it has nothing to do with my comment on 'real' and 'existence'. The earth wasn't flat - that is real and the earth exists as a sphere. Before Galileo's 'discoveries or observations', there were people who had already ventured beyond the horizon and didn't fall off the earth! Just like gravity, it took Newton to state the obvious ..... so did Galileo. But if people thought the earth was flat, that was the 'illusion' that science dispell later.
It is a fact that people in the past believed that the world was flat. Anyway I was saying, even though Galileo stated his observations, what happened was that he was condemned by the church, and many people chose not to believe.
Similarly when evidences are being brought forth, not everyone will accept or be even interested to look into the matter, because they hold tightly to their own beliefs and do not want their beliefs to be threatened.
Even if someone like Galileo were to appear to 'state the obvious' it will not be agreed by every single one.
And also, everyone can prove rebirth for himself. The Buddha himself taught the scientific method to find out spiritual truths -- meditation. If he taught us a scientific method, gave us the 'telescope/microscope' to look into the depths of our own mind/consciousness, we have absolutely no reason not to undertake the experiment and find out for ourselves. If it has already been experienced by countless others through performing the experiment, we have no reason to reject them and cling dogmatically to our own beliefs, but rather should find out for ourselves.
Like Ajahn Brahmavamso nicely puts it:
Excerpt from http://www.bswa.org/modules/icontent/index.php?page=105
Come and See for Yourself
If you had just one person who had been confirmed as medically dead who could describe to the doctors, as soon as they were revived, what had been said, and done during that period of death, wouldn't that be pretty convincing? When I was doing elementary particle physics there was a theory that required for its proof the existence of what was called the 'W' particle. At the cyclotron in Geneva, CERN funded a huge research project, smashing atoms together with an enormous particle accelerator, to try and find one of these 'W' particles. They spent literally hundreds of millions of pounds on this project. They found one, just one 'W' particle. I don't think they have found another since. But once they found one 'W' particle, the researchers involved in that project were given Nobel prizes for physics. They had proved the theory by just finding the one 'W' particle. That's good science. Just one is enough to prove the theory.
When it comes to things we don't like to believe, they call just one experience, one clear factual undeniable experience, an anomaly. Anomaly is a word in science for disconcerting evidence that we can put in the back of a filing cabinet and not look at again, because it's threatens our worldview. It undermines what we want to believe. It is threatening to our dogma. However, an essential part of the scientific method is that theories have to be abandoned in favour of the evidence, in respect of the facts. The point is that the evidence for a mind independent of the brain is there. But once we admit that evidence, and follow the scientific method, then many cherished theories, what we call 'sacred cows' will have to be abandoned.
When we see something that challenges any theory, in science or in religion, we should not ignore the evidence. We have to change the theory to fit the facts. That is what we do in Buddhism. All the Dhamma of the Buddha, everything that he taught, if it does not fit the experience, then we should not accept it. We should not accept the Buddha's words in contradiction of experience. That is clearly stated in the Kālāma Sutta. (AN III, 65) The Buddha said do not believe because it is written in the books, or even if I say it. Don't just believe because it is tradition, or because it sounds right, or because it's comforting to you. Make sure it fits your experience. The existence of mind, independent of the brain, fits experience. The facts are there.
Sometimes, however, we cannot trust the experts. You cannot trust Ajahn Brahm. You cannot trust the scientific journals. Because people are often biased. Buddhism gives you a scientific method for your practice. Buddhism says, do the experiment and find out for your self if what the Buddha said is true or not. Check out your experience. For example, develop the method to test the truth of past lives, rebirth and reincarnation. Don't just believe it with faith, find out for yourself. The Buddha has given a scientific experiment that you can repeat.
Until you understand the law of kamma, which is part of Buddhism, kamma is just a theory. Do you believe that there is a God 'up there' who decides when you can be happy or unhappy? Or is everything that happens to you just chance? Your happiness and your suffering in life, your joy, your pain and disappointments, are they deserved? Are you responsible or is it someone else's fault? Is it mere chance that we are rich or poor? Is it bad luck when we are sick and die at a young age? Why? You can find the true answer for yourself. You can experience the law of kamma through deep meditation. When the Buddha sat under the Bodhi tree at Bodhgaya, the two knowledge's he realized just before his Enlightenment were the knowledge from experience of the truth of rebirth, and the knowledge from experience of the Law of kamma. This was not theory, not just more thinking, not something worked out from discussions around the coffee table this was realization from deep experience of the nature of mind. You too can have that same experience.
All religions in the world except Buddhism maintain the existence of a soul. They affirm a real 'self', an 'essence of all being', a 'person', a 'me'. Buddhism says there is no self! Who is right? What is this 'ghost in the machine'? Is it a soul, is it a being, or is it a process? What is it? When the Buddha said that there is no one in here, he never meant that to be just believed, he meant that to be experienced. The Buddha said, as a scientific fact, that there is no 'self'. But like any scientific fact, it has to be experienced each one for themselves, paccattam veditabbo viññūhī. Many of you chant those Pāli words every day. It is basic scientific Buddhism. You have to keep an open mind. You don't believe there is 'no self', you don't believe there is a 'self' both beliefs are dogmatism. Keep an open mind until you complete the experiment. The experiment is the practice of sila, samādhi and pañña, (virtue, meditation and insight). The experiment is Buddhist practice. Do the same experimental procedures that the Buddha did under the Bodhi tree. Repeat it and see if you get the same results. The result is called Enlightenment.