i have heard ppl saying ...
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Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:By naming it, are you still attached to evil?
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it would be good you're not posting if u're not contributing nonsense and type rubbish?Originally posted by Xprobe: second that, dude -
Hi hanbyul88,Originally posted by hanbyul88:excuse me, your sentences dont stands up for all the buddhist? And why drag all the buddhist in? how u know they care or not cared about? isnt asking christian or buddhist the same? both are compassion and lovely? From ur way of answering i doubt u're a buddhist or chirstian. Cos they dont speak/type like u. your reply will ignore. I'm here seeking answer not quarreling . Thanks you
What Herzog_zwei had said makes sense, why don't you try asking the christians whether or not is Jesus a bodhisattva?
I can also be like An Eternal Now to write a long article, but unlike AEN, I can write that to tell you that Jesus is not a bodhisattva.
To give you a general overview, why is Jesus made a bodhisattva is because that the modern buddhists allowed him to be one. Buddhists trying to give the impression that Buddhism is a universal teaching and full of tolerance, hence accepting Jesus as a bodhisattva in our perspective. This [i[may[/i] also be an unscrupulous manner in wanting to confuse the christians with their icon of faith and in a subtle manner convert the christians into buddhists.
Or some buddhists will claim that this is to respect other people's faith by giving a "status" to these religions' respective founders.
However, to me, I find that this is actually being very disrespectful. All the founders of religions definitely have their unique understanding in teachings and their other doctrinal issues. So instead of claiming that Jesus is a bodhisattva, I would just see him as how he is like as described in the bible, including the lost gospels and not putting our buddhistic definitions on Jesus.
If you really want to know how Jesus is like, besides discussing with people, do read up on the gospels and get an understanding. Read it full, don't be selective, that is, don't only believe in the good things he did and take the bad as just a metaphorical symbol. See both the good and not-so-good acts and think about it.
For the christians that I had met so far in over 10 years, how they defined Buddha has changed too. In the earlier times, to them Buddha is Satan. Nowadays, it has change to Buddha is the "seeker of Truth" and that Jesus is the Truth.
So you see, in the most blunt manner, both Buddhism and Christianity trying to define the founders of each faith in their own perspectives. For reasons that only they will know. Bottomline is faith is a subjective issue. There is no definite right or wrong.
However if your purpose to check on whether Jesus is a bodhisattva is to further understand christianity, then I would suggest that you should skip that and read the bible and have the understanding. Though both may have similairities, but that doesn't mean they are necessarily equivalent.
Or you might as well try HZ's suggestion in asking the christians whether or not is Jesus a bodhisattva.
=) -
There is a little bit of everything in all religion.Some Greek mythology and Buddhism could also be found in ChristianismOriginally posted by hanbyul88:i have keep hearing ppl saying Jesus is a Deva or Pu sa in buddhism .... isit true?
And mother mary is transform by kwan yin pu sa to save mankind? is true cos i'm in doubt just need clarification
thanks all
om ma ni pa me hom .. -
I absolutely agree with you. By the way , why is it that in the earlier time Christians see Buddha as satan ? Just curious ?Originally posted by yamizi:Hi hanbyul88,
What Herzog_zwei had said makes sense, why don't you try asking the christians whether or not is Jesus a bodhisattva?
I can also be like An Eternal Now to write a long article, but unlike AEN, I can write that to tell you that Jesus is not a bodhisattva.
To give you a general overview, why is Jesus made a bodhisattva is because that the modern buddhists allowed him to be one. Buddhists trying to give the impression that Buddhism is a universal teaching and full of tolerance, hence accepting Jesus as a bodhisattva in our perspective. This [i[may[/i] also be an unscrupulous manner in wanting to confuse the christians with their icon of faith and in a subtle manner convert the christians into buddhists.
Or some buddhists will claim that this is to respect other people's faith by giving a "status" to these religions' respective founders.
However, to me, I find that this is actually being very disrespectful. All the founders of religions definitely have their unique understanding in teachings and their other doctrinal issues. So instead of claiming that Jesus is a bodhisattva, I would just see him as how he is like as described in the bible, including the lost gospels and not putting our buddhistic definitions on Jesus.
If you really want to know how Jesus is like, besides discussing with people, do read up on the gospels and get an understanding. Read it full, don't be selective, that is, don't only believe in the good things he did and take the bad as just a metaphorical symbol. See both the good and not-so-good acts and think about it.
For the christians that I had met so far in over 10 years, how they defined Buddha has changed too. In the earlier times, to them Buddha is Satan. Nowadays, it has change to Buddha is the "seeker of Truth" and that Jesus is the Truth.
So you see, in the most blunt manner, both Buddhism and Christianity trying to define the founders of each faith in their own perspectives. For reasons that only they will know. Bottomline is faith is a subjective issue. There is no definite right or wrong.
However if your purpose to check on whether Jesus is a bodhisattva is to further understand christianity, then I would suggest that you should skip that and read the bible and have the understanding. Though both may have similairities, but that doesn't mean they are necessarily equivalent.
Or you might as well try HZ's suggestion in asking the christians whether or not is Jesus a bodhisattva.
=) -
It will be good if you can ask the christians. To my understanding, the comparision is much like the signals in digital electronics, either '0' or '1'. So if your belief is not in God then it will have to be _____ . However, organised religious bodies often evolve with time and environment.Originally posted by knightlll:I absolutely agree with you. By the way , why is it that in the earlier time Christians see Buddha as satan ? Just curious ?
Anyway if you are interested, you can read the Satanic Bible as well. It is not as evil as people think it is. Of course Satanic Bible was written by a man call Anton LaVey (correct me if I'm wrong) in response to the time he was situated. However he gave satanic a whole new definition and not necessary evil as what the mass has been projecting them to be. -
huh but i have never heard earlier christian call buddha a satan lo. buddha is a good and ncie teacher is jesus? Where did u got the info from? mind sharing ?
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Yes, if you want to learn about Christianity please read up on the bible... and at the same time read up on Buddhism to be able to compare the two.Originally posted by yamizi:Hi hanbyul88,
What Herzog_zwei had said makes sense, why don't you try asking the christians whether or not is Jesus a bodhisattva?
I can also be like An Eternal Now to write a long article, but unlike AEN, I can write that to tell you that Jesus is not a bodhisattva.
To give you a general overview, why is Jesus made a bodhisattva is because that the modern buddhists allowed him to be one. Buddhists trying to give the impression that Buddhism is a universal teaching and full of tolerance, hence accepting Jesus as a bodhisattva in our perspective. This [i[may[/i] also be an unscrupulous manner in wanting to confuse the christians with their icon of faith and in a subtle manner convert the christians into buddhists.
Or some buddhists will claim that this is to respect other people's faith by giving a "status" to these religions' respective founders.
However, to me, I find that this is actually being very disrespectful. All the founders of religions definitely have their unique understanding in teachings and their other doctrinal issues. So instead of claiming that Jesus is a bodhisattva, I would just see him as how he is like as described in the bible, including the lost gospels and not putting our buddhistic definitions on Jesus.
If you really want to know how Jesus is like, besides discussing with people, do read up on the gospels and get an understanding. Read it full, don't be selective, that is, don't only believe in the good things he did and take the bad as just a metaphorical symbol. See both the good and not-so-good acts and think about it.
For the christians that I had met so far in over 10 years, how they defined Buddha has changed too. In the earlier times, to them Buddha is Satan. Nowadays, it has change to Buddha is the "seeker of Truth" and that Jesus is the Truth.
So you see, in the most blunt manner, both Buddhism and Christianity trying to define the founders of each faith in their own perspectives. For reasons that only they will know. Bottomline is faith is a subjective issue. There is no definite right or wrong.
However if your purpose to check on whether Jesus is a bodhisattva is to further understand christianity, then I would suggest that you should skip that and read the bible and have the understanding. Though both may have similairities, but that doesn't mean they are necessarily equivalent.
Or you might as well try HZ's suggestion in asking the christians whether or not is Jesus a bodhisattva.
=) -
Originally posted by hanbyul88:
i think this is based on the 'common' understanding of the praying superstition of folk believe rather than on the real understanding of Buddhadharma lah.
huh but i have never heard earlier christian call buddha a satan lo. buddha is a good and ncie teacher is jesus? Where did u got the info from? mind sharing ?[/b]
last time they are not allow to enter temple, to pray to Buddha/bodhisattva/gods statues of 'chinese folk' believes, thinking that they are the manifestation of satan to take away the soul and stop ppl from believing in Christ. nowaday i am not sure still got like that anot.
but hello~, Buddha came to earth like about 500 years eariler than jesus de. in such a logic, they should be anti-buddhism, rather than we anti them, right anot.
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Then you have the good kamma of not hearing such terms. I heard it many years back from random christians who tried to preach me.Originally posted by hanbyul88:huh but i have never heard earlier christian call buddha a satan lo. buddha is a good and ncie teacher is jesus? Where did u got the info from? mind sharing ?
My point here is not about which religion anti which religion but hope all would understand the differences among the similarities.
Instead of following some so-called great masters in claiming Jesus to be bodhisattva, why not simply respect the christian-faith by seeing Jesus as the Son of God, as believed by the christians.
However, buddhists neither pray to God nor believe in a creator God (as taught in christianity), so it doesn't make the belief in Jesus important to buddhists, though it is pivotal in the christian-faith.
Some so-called great masters will quickly recognised some of the good things that Jesus had done in bible and put them on par with our bodhisattva practice.
There are general two issues here:
1st, it is that even if some of the things done by Jesus do seems to be part of the bodhisattva practice, that doesn't mean he is a bodhisattva. If indeed such acts can make Jesus a bodhisattva, then you and I and the other buddhists at large, I would have believed that we too have done bodhisattva practices, whether big or small, whether the act was carried out or merely arise in our thoughts (do you sometimes have the thought of donating something for a good cause without hope for return? That would be the root of dana paramita =)). If it is so, then it doesn't make Jesus any more extraordinary as each and everyone of us are bodhisattvas as well.
2nd, it is the selective reading that I had mentioned in my previous entry, great master trying to sound tolerating and compassionate, quickly glorified or over glorified the good deeds done by Jesus in bible but fail to bring up or simply evade some acts that I would say are bizarre.
Buddhists are indeed the seekers of Truth and that would only be accomplished by heeding what the Buddha had said that one should thoroughly investigate and not passing fast judgment. -
I not sure if Jesus is a bodhisatva or not. But I think that some of the bible teaching doesn't seem to be from an enlightened bodhisatva, coz it contradicts with the buddha's teaching.Originally posted by hanbyul88:i have keep hearing ppl saying Jesus is a Deva or Pu sa in buddhism .... isit true?
And mother mary is transform by kwan yin pu sa to save mankind? is true cos i'm in doubt just need clarification thanks all
om ma ni pa me hom .. -
Why does it matter? Whether Jesus is a Boddhisattva or not?
Why must one try to find whether it started from one religion or is it a separate religion?
Does it help in any way? Make you more happy if it's true? What if it is not true? Will you lose faith then?
I do not understand the root nor reason for this question. Pray explain. -
Originally posted by justdoit77:
hohoho..then i guess you'd like to investigate the mystic form of x'tianity.
I not sure if Jesus is a bodhisatva or not. But I think that some of the bible teaching doesn't seem to be from an enlightened bodhisatva, coz it contradicts with the buddha's teaching.
conversation with Buddhist Ken Wilber and a Mystic x'tian.
The Mystic Heart - Part 1- The Supreme Identity
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDuAHdaleNU&mode=related&search=
The Mystic Heart - Part 2 - A Likely Story (within the link above)
The Mystic Heart - Part 3 - Intellectual Illumination
The Mystic Heart - Part 4 - All Reality in One Moment
The Mystic Heart - Part 6 - Picking a Path
The Mystic Heart - Part 7 - Out of the Self, Into the Light
to me,
“Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.” - Matthew 7:1-5
though it's quite basic, yet it is very profound from a Dharma perspective.
'True cultivator of Dharma, see not the wrong doing of others. ' --- 6th Ch'an Patriarch Hui Neng
The outside phenomena is neither good nor bad. All that's good or bad is generated from your afflicted mind/heart of attachment, dualism and wandering thoughts.
i think we have to see thru the metaphors.
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it is not for us mortals to judge this being is a god or deity, cos we are not fit to do it.
The creator of this entire universe has already set the "rules".
be it jesus, allah, or buddha or other holy beings, their teachings is for the good of mankind to lead them into the light as most of them has been coaxed into the temptation of the Dark Side.
I quote from one of the book i read:
When the great Tao is forgotten, virtue and morality arise.
When knowledge and intelligence are born, the great pretense begins.
when there is no harmony in the family, filial piety and devotion arise.
when the country is confused and in chaos, loyal official appear. -
I hear you Sinweiy.... but in my opinion the quotes cannot be applied universally to all acts.Originally posted by sinweiy:to me,
“Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.” - Matthew 7:1-5
though it's quite basic, yet it is very profound from a Dharma perspective.
'True cultivator of Dharma, see not the wrong doing of others. ' --- 6th Ch'an Patriarch Hui Neng
The outside phenomena is neither good nor bad. All that's good or bad is generated from your afflicted mind/heart of attachment, dualism and wandering thoughts.
i think we have to see thru the metaphors.
/\
For example, if I say that according to the Bible God nuked Sodom and Gomorrah, and this is incompatible with the actions of an enlightened bodhisatva.
Am I judging? Is genocide really an outside phenomena that is neither good nor bad? Does it really reflect my own mind's depravity if I point out that I disapprove of genocide? -
Haha, you've just experience with what I had mentioned about selective reading that some buddhists would adapt to =)Originally posted by Beyond Religion:I hear you Sinweiy.... but in my opinion the quotes cannot be applied universally to all acts.
For example, if I say that according to the Bible God nuked Sodom and Gomorrah, and this is incompatible with the actions of an enlightened bodhisatva.
Am I judging? Is genocide really an outside phenomena that is neither good nor bad? Does it really reflect my own mind's depravity if I point out that I disapprove of genocide?
Don't know why buddhists just can't leave things as they are =) -
Originally posted by Beyond Religion:
tot this posted in esangha can be apply here:
Am I judging? Is genocide really an outside phenomena that is neither good nor bad? Does it really reflect my own mind's depravity if I point out that I disapprove of genocide?
A bodhisattva does not discriminate on the basis of "deserving". No one deserves to suffer, so any suffering is a cause for compassion.
If a person is mean or grumpy, the bodhisattva asks why. The answer is that the person is suffering as a result of bad karma. This person might need the bodhisattva's help more than the person who is nice.
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recently, master when to visit a Hawaiian tribe. it was interesting to notice their way of healing people. when they see someone is hurt, they don't apply the cure on them, they just when to a room and start "healing" themselves!
huh? what? in the room they keep on repeating, "May you be well, i love you." ..."May you be well, i love you."...(they are to master, doing a form of nianfo-ing)
their idea is that the outside phenomena are created from the heart/mind, so if one can heal the heart/mind, you can heal the world. very bear natural.
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The Mahayana Uttaratantra Shastra (detail meaning of Buddha-nature)
as taught by Arya Maitreya, transcribed by Arya Asangathe causes that allow Buddha-nature to manifest :-
ps: it's ok lah...it's only the former part of the dharma path to judge wrong doing of others, but at the latter part, especially realising non-duality, you'll taste what 6th Ch'an Patriarch Hui Neng say is incredibility true. all and all Buddha's teachings is to renouce one's attachment, discrimination and wanderings thoughts.
aspiration: devotion to the three jewels of the mahayana dharma- overcoming dislike or disinterest
wanderings thoughts as in no discriminating both discrimination AND no-discrimination.
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Not sure about that particular case you mentioned, but God as described in old testament and in new testament is really quite different. Even in terms of style -- for example, in old testament God is seen as more of a mythic creature, more of a personal God -- someone you can go up and speak to, have a coffee and a chit chat. As time passes there is an evolution of consciousness and what is being taught as God changes accordingly. Just as how human civilisation changes according to the different states of our consciousness.Originally posted by Beyond Religion:I hear you Sinweiy.... but in my opinion the quotes cannot be applied universally to all acts.
For example, if I say that according to the Bible God nuked Sodom and Gomorrah, and this is incompatible with the actions of an enlightened bodhisatva.
Am I judging? Is genocide really an outside phenomena that is neither good nor bad? Does it really reflect my own mind's depravity if I point out that I disapprove of genocide? -
Go ask a christian about it.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Not sure about that particular case you mentioned, but God as described in old testament and in new testament is really quite different. Even in terms of style -- for example, in old testament God is seen as more of a mythic creature, more of a personal God -- someone you can go up and speak to, have a coffee and a chit chat. As time passes there is an evolution of consciousness and what is being taught as God changes accordingly. Just as how human civilisation changes according to the different states of our consciousness. -
lol this goes both way la.
i heard my catholic aunt also said that guan yin (when i was still a buddhist) is a saint. -
Yes, laoda99 and some other EH christians also said the same thing, that the way God is presented in OT and NT is quite different.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:Go ask a christian about it. -
presented differently, don't mean that God changed his nature etc, ya?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Yes, laoda99 and some other EH christians also said the same thing, that the way God is presented in OT and NT is quite different. -
What I'm talking about is people understanding of itOriginally posted by dumbdumb!:presented differently, don't mean that God changed his nature etc, ya?
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Those who claimed who understand it only understand the theory part of it, not the spiritual part.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:What I'm talking about is people understanding of it
most of us still have unsettled business/ties in the mudane world which we cannot forsake. some of which are tied to like filial piety in my previous post which i mentioned earlier on. -
Originally posted by sinweiy:
enlightenment is nonetheless "zhao4 jian4" mah. the ability to reflect inward.
'True cultivator of Dharma, see not the wrong doing of others. ' --- 6th Ch'an Patriarch Hui Neng
The outside phenomena is neither good nor bad. All that's good or bad is generated from your afflicted mind/heart of attachment, dualism and wandering thoughts.
when see good phenomana, don't generate greed/likes; see bad phenomana, don't generate hatred/dislike.
if one 'know' how to watch a motion picture, you can Realization Emptiness in reality too.
know how motion pictures works?
QUOTE...films are made up of a series of individual images called frames. When these images are shown rapidly in succession, a viewer has the illusion that motion is occurring. The viewer cannot see the flickering between frames due to an effect known as persistence of vision — whereby the eye retains a visual image for a fraction of a second after the source has been removed. Viewers perceive motion due to a psychological effect called beta movement.
so if you get emotionally involve with reality that are not real, you suffer. savvy.
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