Are they still Buddhists without Karma and other fantastics?
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Originally posted by sinweiy:
Then what constitutes the Law of Cause and Effect?
another important note:
of all things that are empty in nature, there's one thing that is not . and that's Karma or the [b]Law of cause and effect, my friend.
heard of what happen to the master who wrote that the Law of cause and effect is empty?
key word is in the "Law" (of change).
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[/b] -
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
if there is, den what constitutes the constitutes of the Law ?
Then what constitutes the Law of Cause and Effect?[/b]
change is the only constant is the Original function of nature/existence, time without beginning. Just the way it is.
or make it that the Law constitutes the Law. close the loop.
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for example, the Law of cause and effect define...an apple seed will grow into an apple tree, not a pineapple tree. if apple seed can grow into pineapple or other fruits then the Law is broken. Existence will not function and be in chaos, any o how.
even Buddhas need to obey the functionality of the Law of existence.
the Law is the Big Boss.
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listen to:
http://www.amitabha-gallery.org/dharma_talk1.htm
6. Karma and Rebirth 19.6 MB 21:24 minutes ( Play )
Ven Wuling use gravity as a very good example. if you jump up into the air, whether u believe gravity or not, gravity still exist natually and you still need to fall down.
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Originally posted by sinweiy:listen to:
http://www.amitabha-gallery.org/dharma_talk1.htm
6. Karma and Rebirth 19.6 MB 21:24 minutes ( Play )
Ven Wuling use gravity as a very good example. if you jump up into the air, whether u believe gravity or not, gravity still exist natually and you still need to fall down.
Never heard of Ven Wuling ..... but I thought that gravity thingy sounds familair lei .... hmmm..... great minds think alike? -
she's a westerner under old Master Chin Kung.Originally posted by TheGoodEarth:Ven WuLing
http://www.abuddhistperspective.org/venerable-wuling/
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For sure, there are consequences for you actions... and you can try it, rob a bank and see whether the police comes after you...Originally posted by sinweiy:listen to:
http://www.amitabha-gallery.org/dharma_talk1.htm
6. Karma and Rebirth 19.6 MB 21:24 minutes ( Play )
Ven Wuling use gravity as a very good example. if you jump up into the air, whether u believe gravity or not, gravity still exist natually and you still need to fall down.
/\
The part about karma being brought forward to the next life and assigning merits to another person... that has no evidence or conclusive evidence or reliable evidence.
Once there are no evidence or conclusive evidence or reliable evidence, you have to put it aside for the time being and concentrate on the things where you have good evidence for. -
Not only has there been countless people since the Buddha (who the Buddha himself remembered 96 aeons of past lives) has remembered their past lives, there are scientific evidences and researches of late about past lives to back up the claim (see Ian Stevensons).Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:For sure, there are consequences for you actions... and you can try it, rob a bank and see whether the police comes after you...
The part about karma being brought forward to the next life and assigning merits to another person... that has no evidence or conclusive evidence or reliable evidence.
Once there are no evidence or conclusive evidence or reliable evidence, you have to put it aside for the time being and concentrate on the things where you have good evidence for.
There is no reason not to believe in past lives, and furthermore the Buddha had taught us how it is possible for each of us to be able to do that, as well as find out about karma.
Therefore, all these must be accepted with faith, but it is not necessarily blind faith, just like you accept the teachings in your physics and chemistry book, but it is not by blind faith because you will do your scientific lab experiment as well.
Which comes back to the question of faith.. like I said before, we cannot ever deny faith because knowledge is uncertain, including science. There is a good amount of faith invested in science as well, but perhaps that is good faith, logical faith. Similarly Buddhism's faith is logical faith, good faith. We must have faith in whats spoken, and most importantly have faith in Buddha's enlightenment, have faith that you can become enlightened, and have faith in the triple gem's ability to lead you to enlightenment as countless others have done so.
Faith in Belief SystemsOriginally posted by Thusness:
Interesting topic and I think I will skew a little to talk about science and faith since AEN was discussing a related thread yesterday.
Faith is necessary because there is no certainty in knowledge. Even in exact science, no certainty is to be found. Of course certainty versus probable knowledge is a topic relating to Epistemology (the theory on Knowledge) but still, it is pivotal towards understanding why the need for faith at all. How science has led to the common misunderstanding that faith is not necessary is amazing but it is mostly due to the predictive nature of these scientific theories derived from thorough experimentation. This is, however, mainly due to the fact that the pool of data made available for the derivation of these theories does not go beyond our man-size world. As we know, Newtonian physics or classical science works well for a man-size world but not quite well in the macro and micro universe. Our ordinary experiences do not permit us to experience something having the mass of a star or traveling at half-speed of light, we presume that the entire universe must obey the laws of the man-size world. But when we are exposed to things not so ordinary, like traveling at a speed much faster then our ordinary experience of ‘speed’, we are lost because phenomena just don’t behave the way we expected it to be. The idea that time travel slower when they are approaching the speed of light and halt at speed of light is mind boggling. Similarly when scientists begin to deal with the universe of the outer space – the macro universe, they are dealing with much more massive objects than the man-size world, a billion times more. The idea that space curves and time halt at the speed of light came as a shocked to the classical scientists. This applies true when we deal with the micro universe of the quantum world. The world of the electrons does not comply with Newtonian nor Einstein theory. This includes the spooky non-local behavior of particles that AEN brought up in another thread. [b]When Heisenberg introduced the ‘uncertainty’ principle, it is so weird that even Einstein rejected it and thus, Einstein famous remark -- “God does not play dice”. But “God does not play dice” is a belief system! I can’t remember where I read it but I could clearly recalled that even Stephen Hawking used phrases like “official dogma”, “deep emotional attachment to determinism” to describe scientists like Einstein. Stephen Hawking even went further to say that Einstein was doubly wrong when he said “God does not play dice”.
I will not dwell too deeply into it but the purpose is simply to illustrate that our knowledge is nothing certain nor absolute. Science is itself a belief system for us to better understand the phenomenon existence. It is its certainty in predictability within a prescribed environment that convinces us that faith is not necessary. It creates the impression of certainty and made a probable knowledge appears absolute but in actual case, science itself is a belief system and a great deal of faith (maybe good and rational faith in this case) is vested in science unknowingly.
My 2 cents. [/b] -
When you say, have faith, you open yourself to delusions.
That is why I think that your Buddhism, the Buddhism taught in ~BWB~ is in error. -
It would not be possible to be without faith, such as faith in the triple gems, for a practitioner to walk his path. Like if you don't believe you can get enlightened, why would you bother to practise eight fold path?Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:When you say, have faith, you open yourself to delusions.
That is why I think that your Buddhism, the Buddhism taught in ~BWB~ is in error.
Faith is merely the first step, the foundation step. But it must be 'balanced' by wisdom and experience.
This faith must later be authenticated by our experience, such that be becomes unshakeable confidence not just in theory. We learn what the Buddha taught, we trust his words and practise, and we see the results ourselves. The more we gain in practise the more confidence we have in dharma because we see it ourselves. -
How can a Law answer upon itself? Loops must not close upon itself.Originally posted by sinweiy:if there is, den what constitutes the constitutes of the Law ?
change is the only constant is the Original function of nature/existence, time without beginning. Just the way it is.
or make it that the Law constitutes the Law. close the loop.
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http://www.buddhanet.net/cbp2_f5.htm
The Unification of Faith (s. sraddha) and Wisdom (s. prajna)
People are of varying natures and types and thus have different temperaments, worries, demands and passions. In general, one who has stronger feeling and sentiment is more likely to be compassionate and is more capable of developing strong faith in oneÂ’s belief; while an intellectual person tends to have greater powers of discernment and lucid comprehension. The biased development of either faith or intellect results in protracted, cumulative, negative and harmful effects. For example, if an emotional person has strong faith without counter-balancing wisdom, he may sink into ignorance and superstition due to his fanatical faith. The lop-sided attitude of discriminating against rationality and wisdom is not acceptable in Buddhism. On the other hand, if we over-emphasize rationality and doubting everything, we will lose our faith and belief. This induces us to ignore moral values and to deny the existence of Universal Truth, saints and sages. One would thereby finally become anti-religious. Such perversity would lead us astray and prevent us from establishing truly moral behavior, eventually threatening the very fabric of our society! Thus, there is a saying in Buddhism,
"Faith without wisdom will develop ignorance;
wisdom without faith will develop a perverted view."
Buddhism advocates the unification of faith and wisdom. How can we bring faith and wisdom together? Is it possible to unify them? In the first place, we need to understand the Buddhist perspective of faith and wisdom. Faith is characterized by the sentiments of respect and of inspiration by an ideal. Faith is a common experience amongst the followers of any religion. Faith without intellectual comprehension and discrimination cannot be regarded as a rational faith. Faith in Buddhism is developed through contemplation and investigation so that the characteristics of truthfulness, righteousness, and efficacy of the ideal in which one develops faith, can be understood and revealed. This is the way a Buddhist develops faith and respect toward Sakyamuni Buddha. Sakyamuni is understood rationally to have existed in this world as a historical figure. He has supreme wisdom and great virtues and he has boundless compassion working towards the liberation of sentient beings. In Buddhism, faith is rooted in rational intellectual comprehension. As faith is strengthened and sharpened by the assessment of the intellect, it is further confirmed by the direct insight of wisdom. When understanding of the Buddha Dharma is developed further, faith becomes more intense. This faith will motivate us to elevate ourselves and ground our lives in true morality. It will enable our lives, guided by the ideals to which we have responded with faith. Faith is not merely an appreciation of the ideal but a desire to move towards it.
Although some intellectuals possess a vast knowledge of Buddhism, and have strong reasoning ability, they commonly lack faith in Buddhism. Therefore, Dharma can not take firm root and grow in their hearts. Because of this, Dharma cannot really benefit them. Studying Buddhism in this barren manner contradicts the teaching of Buddhism because the Buddhist way of life necessarily contains the element of faith. When we have confidence, we will be able to purify our minds and free them from defilements i.e. greed (s. raga), hatred (s. pratigha) and ego-conceptualization (s. atmamana). Confidence is like an alum; it purifies muddy water. Similarly, a strong faith will purify your mind. The reality of life is full of distress and misery, but faith can transform a mental state of emptiness and anguish into joy, peace, calm and contentment. This is like an innocent child who wanders around the streets, lost, hungry, thirsty, cold, worried and not knowing what to do. While he is anxious and filled with despair, he suddenly finds his mother. He will immediately feel secure and happy because he deeply believes that he will obtain food, warm clothes and the consolation of his motherÂ’s love. Similarly, a life of faith is filled with joy, peace, security and contentment.
If our faith is not developed through open thinking and reasoning, then we are just following what others lead us to believe. A blind religious faith becomes fanatical when it is carried away by wild enthusiasm and the deprecation of wisdom. Buddhist faith develops through the cultivation of wisdom. Since it espouses a faith wedded to wisdom, Buddhism avoids the viciousness of that religious fanaticism which espouses faith devoid of deeper understanding and divorced from wisdom. The development of Buddhist faith involves several stages. The evolving faith displayed by some Buddhists does not therefore necessarily reveal the true, ultimate meaning of faith in the Buddha Dharma.
The most outstanding characteristic of wisdom is free thought and its operative functions include understanding and cognition. The wisdom of humanity extends through space to the farthest reaches of the Universe. Our knowledge is continuously changing, improving and progressing. Therefore traditions may not necessarily be reliable. This is due to the fact that when humans develop knowledge acquired through their own perceptions of the external world, much unreliable information is accumulated in the process. Such empirical knowledge is vitiated because the pieces of information from which it is derived are in turn derived from sensory perceptions of the external world, and both the ordinary mind and the external world are comprised of, and compromised by, a certain degree of illusion. For example, when we are perceiving the external world we cannot know our minds at the same moment. Therefore, we are tempted by the external world and our minds are controlled by the material world. Since we lose control of our minds, greed, hatred and ignorance arise. In Buddhism it is acknowledged that the knowledge gained by human beings is far superior to that gained by other beings. We humans almost try to know everything, yet we do not know ourselves. This is a cognitive bias of ours. When we try to understand the external world we lack the ability to have a complete overview of it. Everything in the phenomenal world is impermanent and constantly changing, but we are always subjectively inferring about the nature of objects that this is their absolute existence and that they will be as they are forever. As a result, human knowledge generally harbors many illusions.
Some people think that Truth lies outside the mind, and they therefore seek it in the external world. Others consider that there is an external metaphysical entity which properly serves as their religious ideal, and the focus of their faith. In fact, all the external worlds are like mirages, unreal and constantly changing. The wisdom which Buddhism teaches starts with self-contemplation and an experience of insight. Truth cannot be simplistically derived from observation of the external world. Rather, Truth requires us to understand ourselves and to grasp our inner nature. Just as a person who has sharp senses and a bright and discerning mind does not need to seek help from others in order to clearly comprehend Truth, we should develop from the inside out so that we can project this luminous understanding and contemplation of ourselves into the dimness of the external world. This is the only way to unify wisdom and faith.
In fact, wisdom and faith are not really in opposition to one another. Conflict will only arise if we practice prejudice against either wisdom or faith. Wisdom without faith is biased towards that which is material. This positivistic emphasis is inimical to religion. Faith without wisdom is biased towards a sentimental faith which is inimical to reason. Buddha Dharma is a unification of wisdom and faith; a faith which is grounded in wisdom, and a wisdom which emphasizes human life and self-effort. Faith is thereby kept away from illusion. Wisdom and faith are mutually grounded. If we can understand, experience and practice this path, life will be filled with infinite brightness and cheer. -
The Cultivation of Faith and Wisdom
The cultivation of faith involves several stages. Although the depth of practice involved in each stage is different, the common purpose of all the various stages is ultimately the unification of faith and wisdom. These stages include:
1. Faith without prejudice — This is faith based on understanding devoid of any prejudice. Such an open faith is important because if one has a prejudiced mind it will make it difficult to understand others’ views, or to accept the Truth. For a simple example, suppose A and B did not get along well. If B makes some mistakes and A then gives B some honest advice, not only will B reject A’s advice but he will further misconstrue it as malicious slander against him. Conversely, if A and B do not have any prejudice against each other, or if their relationship is very close, B will be willing to follow any of A’s advice even if A uses strong language in expressing it to him. Therefore, one can only learn and have faith in the Truth if one first frees oneself from prejudice. This is the way to develop and to purify confidence and faith. (This is consistent with the first of the three ways that Buddhism teaches that one may acquire wisdom i.e. by listening and learning (s. srutamayiprajna).)
2. Faith with profound understanding — After establishing faith without prejudice, one is required to develop a profound understanding of the valid grounds for faith, and by such reasonable means to acknowledge its authenticity. The deeper the understanding of the valid grounds for faith, the stronger the faith that will arise. The valid grounds for faith are learnt and authenticated by listening, by seeing, and deepened by incisive thought in order to gain a systematic understanding. (This correlates with Buddhist teaching on the second of the three ways to acquire wisdom i.e. by thinking (s. cintamayi-prajna).)
3. Faith with endeavor — After exercising one’s reasoning and coming to understand the grounds for faith, one will make every endeavor to achieve it. The process is analogous to oil mining. One must first examine the ground and be very certain that petroleum can be found under a certain spot. One then starts to drill an oil-well at that spot, persevering until its riches are brought to the surface. (This corresponds to the third of the three ways to acquire wisdom i.e. by meditation and contemplation (s. bhavanamayi-prajna).)
4. Faith with realization — By continuous practice and contemplation, one comes to realize that there is no difference between the ultimate truth and what one believes in beginning. It is like a miner who procures a large quantity of petroleum by virtue of his effort in drilling oil wells. (This corresponds to the realization of prajna.)
In Buddhism, faith is not antagonistic towards wisdom, and conversely wisdom is accomplished only in consort with faith and confidence. The ultimate achievement is the unification of wisdom and faith. The meaning of faith in Buddhism is thus very different from its meaning in other religions.
Wisdom in Buddhism is attained through the mental culture of self-contemplation. Since the main issue in the accumulation of true knowledge is the quest to learn all about human nature, we can consequently understand the Truth only by understanding our lives and by grasping the wisdom of life. We may then clearly contemplate the Universe and the phenomenal world, thereafter being able to penetrate to the Truth. If one believes that wisdom is to be gained through the external world, one can only arrive at a superficial knowledge of the Truth and cannot dwell in the heart of Dharma.
In Buddhism, the cultivation of wisdom does not hinder faith. For example, through His own exertions the Buddha realized that there are infinite number of different planes of existence, and that the ranks of sentient beings are likewise limitless. When science is not well developed, people always doubt this. But in these modern times, by using scientific instruments, we can prove that there are indeed an infinite number of planets in this universe. As science further develops, it may become even easier to prove the correctness of the teachings of Buddha, which of course will help further reinforce faith. On the other hand, the cultivation of faith does not hinder wisdom either. We have faith in the teachings of the Buddha, and at the same time we can easily be learning the reality of such profound teachings as dependent origination, impermanence, non-self etc., and experiencing the application of these Buddhist teachings in our daily lives. The teaching of the unification of wisdom and faith is a distinctive characteristic and an emphatic feature of Buddhism. When we make a relevant comparison with other religions we can see that in this regard Buddhism is unique. -
sure that is true, that is a valid "use" for faith... to trust first and then find out for yourself the truth for yourself.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:It would not be possible to be without faith, such as faith in the triple gems, for a practitioner to walk his path.
Faith is merely the first step, the foundation step.
I am not talking about that.
I am talking about, for example electricity. You don't believe in electricity? I can give you an electric shock over and over again, if you like.
There is no need to have faith in electricity.
Things that you cannot demonstrate, things that you cannot repeat, things that you cannot provide the evidence for. You accept by faith and after you accept by faith, you still cannot prove it, can result in delusions.
It is not like, you accept by faith and after you learn a technique, you can prove it for yourself, even if you cannot prove it for others.
Like for example, you tell me that you can see your past lives and you can teach me how to do that.
I have "faith" in you and I learn the technique from you and see my past lives for myself.
When I say that you are open to delusion is when you have faith and there is no way to prove if your faith is blind or valid. -
The Buddhist scriptures list faith as one of the seven Treasures (dhanas), one of the five “spiritual faculties” (indriyas), one of the four “streams of merit”, and one of the “spiritual powers” (balas).
Kasibharadvaja Sutta:
Faith is the seed, practice the rain,
And wisdom is my yoke and plough.
ModestyÂ’s the pole, mind the strap,
Mindfulness my ploughshare and goad.
Avatamsaka Sutra:
“Deep faith, belief, and resolution always pure,
They [ = bodhisattvas] honour and respect all Buddhas ...
Deeply believing in the Buddha and the Buddha's teaching,
They also believe in the Way traversed by buddhas-to-be,
And believe in unexcelled great enlightenment:
Thereby do enlightening beings [ = bodhisattvas] first rouse their will.
Faith is the basis of the Path, the mother of virtues,
Nourishing and growing all good ways,
Cutting away the net of doubt, freeing from the torrent of passion,
Revealing the unsurpassed road of ultimate peace.
When faith is undefiled, the mind is pure;
Obliterating pride, it is the root of reverence,
And the foremost wealth in the treasury of religion ...
Faith is generous Â…
Faith can joyfully enter the BuddhaÂ’s teaching;
Faith can increase knowledge and virtue;
Faith can ensure arrival at enlightenment Â…
Faith can go beyond the pathways of demons,
And reveal the unsurpassed road of liberation.
Faith is the unspoiled seed of virtue,
Faith can grow the seed of enlightenment.
Faith can increase supreme knowledge,
Faith can reveal all Buddhas Â…
Faith is most powerful, very difficult to have;
ItÂ’s like in all worlds having
the wondrous wish-fulfilling pearl.” (pp. 331-332). -
There is nothing that the Buddha said that you cannot experience and realise for ourselves. In fact if we practise as the Buddha teaches, we will experience and realise everything that he has taught. We will appreciate the conciseness and precision that the teachings of Buddha has, as Thusness and Longchen can testify.Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:sure that is true, that is a valid "use" for faith... to trust first and then find out for yourself the truth for yourself.
I am not talking about that.
I am talking about, for example electricity. You don't believe in electricity? I can give you an electric shock over and over again, if you like.
There is no need to have faith in electricity.
Things that you cannot demonstrate, things that you cannot repeat, things that you cannot provide the evidence for. You accept by faith and after you accept by faith, you still cannot prove it, can result in delusions.
It is not like, you accept by faith and after you learn a technique, you can prove it for yourself, even if you cannot prove it for others.
Like for example, you tell me that you can see your past lives and you can teach me how to do that.
I have "faith" in you and I learn the technique from you and see my past lives for myself.
When I say that you are open to delusion is when you have faith and there is no way to prove if your faith is blind or valid.
Anyway I posted before many times,
Buddhism and Science
partial excerpt:
Come and See for Yourself
If you had just one person who had been confirmed as medically dead who could describe to the doctors, as soon as they were revived, what had been said, and done during that period of death, wouldn't that be pretty convincing? When I was doing elementary particle physics there was a theory that required for its proof the existence of what was called the 'W' particle. At the cyclotron in Geneva, CERN funded a huge research project, smashing atoms together with an enormous particle accelerator, to try and find one of these 'W' particles. They spent literally hundreds of millions of pounds on this project. They found one, just one 'W' particle. I don't think they have found another since. But once they found one 'W' particle, the researchers involved in that project were given Nobel prizes for physics. They had proved the theory by just finding the one 'W' particle. That's good science. Just one is enough to prove the theory.
When it comes to things we don't like to believe, they call just one experience, one clear factual undeniable experience, an anomaly. Anomaly is a word in science for disconcerting evidence that we can put in the back of a filing cabinet and not look at again, because it's threatens our worldview. It undermines what we want to believe. It is threatening to our dogma. However, an essential part of the scientific method is that theories have to be abandoned in favour of the evidence, in respect of the facts. The point is that the evidence for a mind independent of the brain is there. But once we admit that evidence, and follow the scientific method, then many cherished theories, what we call 'sacred cows' will have to be abandoned.
When we see something that challenges any theory, in science or in religion, we should not ignore the evidence. We have to change the theory to fit the facts. That is what we do in Buddhism. All the Dhamma of the Buddha, everything that he taught, if it does not fit the experience, then we should not accept it. We should not accept the Buddha's words in contradiction of experience. That is clearly stated in the Kālāma Sutta. (AN III, 65) The Buddha said do not believe because it is written in the books, or even if I say it. Don't just believe because it is tradition, or because it sounds right, or because it's comforting to you. Make sure it fits your experience. The existence of mind, independent of the brain, fits experience. The facts are there.
Sometimes, however, we cannot trust the experts. You cannot trust Ajahn Brahm. You cannot trust the scientific journals. Because people are often biased. Buddhism gives you a scientific method for your practice. Buddhism says, do the experiment and find out for your self if what the Buddha said is true or not. Check out your experience. For example, develop the method to test the truth of past lives, rebirth and reincarnation. Don't just believe it with faith, find out for yourself. The Buddha has given a scientific experiment that you can repeat.
Until you understand the law of kamma, which is part of Buddhism, kamma is just a theory. Do you believe that there is a God 'up there' who decides when you can be happy or unhappy? Or is everything that happens to you just chance? Your happiness and your suffering in life, your joy, your pain and disappointments, are they deserved? Are you responsible or is it someone else's fault? Is it mere chance that we are rich or poor? Is it bad luck when we are sick and die at a young age? Why? You can find the true answer for yourself. You can experience the law of kamma through deep meditation. When the Buddha sat under the Bodhi tree at Bodhgaya, the two knowledge's he realized just before his Enlightenment were the knowledge from experience of the truth of rebirth, and the knowledge from experience of the Law of kamma. This was not theory, not just more thinking, not something worked out from discussions around the coffee table this was realization from deep experience of the nature of mind. You too can have that same experience.
All religions in the world except Buddhism maintain the existence of a soul. They affirm a real 'self', an 'essence of all being', a 'person', a 'me'. Buddhism says there is no self! Who is right? What is this 'ghost in the machine'? Is it a soul, is it a being, or is it a process? What is it? When the Buddha said that there is no one in here, he never meant that to be just believed, he meant that to be experienced. The Buddha said, as a scientific fact, that there is no 'self'. But like any scientific fact, it has to be experienced each one for themselves, paccattam veditabbo viññūhī. Many of you chant those Pāli words every day. It is basic scientific Buddhism. You have to keep an open mind. You don't believe there is 'no self', you don't believe there is a 'self' both beliefs are dogmatism. Keep an open mind until you complete the experiment. The experiment is the practice of sila, samādhi and pañña, (virtue, meditation and insight). The experiment is Buddhist practice. Do the same experimental procedures that the Buddha did under the Bodhi tree. Repeat it and see if you get the same results. The result is called Enlightenment.
Men and women have repeated that experiment many times over the centuries. It is in the laboratory of Buddhist practice that the Enlightened Ones, the Arahants, arise. The Arahants are the ones who have done the experiment and found the result. That's why Buddhism always has been the scientific way. It is the way of finding out for your self the truth of Enlightenment.
Buddhism is also the scientific way of discovering the truth about happiness, what most people are interested in. What is happiness? Some students from our local Islamic school came to visit our monastery a short while ago. I performed a little party trick for them, which was also an illuminating way to demonstrate the existence of the mind. I was trying to explain Buddhism, so I asked them:
"Are you happy? Put your hands up if you are happy now".
At first there was no response. Then one person responded and raised their hand.
"Oh! You're all miserable?" I said "Only one person, come on! Are you happy or not?"
More students put there hands up.
"Okay, all those people who put their hands up saying they are happy, with your index finger can you now point to that happiness? Can you give it coordinates in space?" They couldn't locate that happiness.
(cont. in URL..) -
That is the faith I was talking about, the "sure that is true, that is a valid "use" for faith... to trust first and then find out for yourself the truth for yourself" type of faith.
Not the "I will believe it even when I have no evidence for it and I am not interested whether there are good evidence or no evidence for it type of, Faith."
That kind is why there are delusional people in this world. -
Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
Yes agreed
That is the faith I was talking about, the [b]"sure that is true, that is a valid "use" for faith... to trust first and then find out for yourself the truth for yourself" type of faith.
Not the "I will believe it even when I have no evidence for it and I am not interested whether there are good evidence or no evidence for it type of, Faith."
That kind is why there are delusional people in this world.[/b]
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Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
that's why~....don't come asking "Then what constitutes the Law?"....it's invalid noe.
How can a Law answer upon itself? Loops must not close upon itself.
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That's why I understand that Buddhist theories don't follow reality.Originally posted by sinweiy:that's why~....don't come asking "Then what constitutes the Law?"....it's invalid noe.
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Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
why u think Causality don't follow reality?
That's why I understand that Buddhist theories don't follow reality.
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Kindly read all my arguments with AEN.Originally posted by sinweiy:why u think Causality don't follow reality?
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Scientific theory doesn't fit with religion. -
Kindly read all my counter-arguments also.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:Kindly read all my arguments with AEN.
Scientific theory doesn't fit with religion.
And also, scientific theory is supportive of the teachings. Furthermore, Buddhism and spirituality IS itself a science. Watch Spirituality and the 3 Strands of Deep Science -
Published on October 12, 2007
Fears have been expressed that Thai Buddhism is in jeopardy of having no one to fill the role played by Phra Panyanandha Bhikkhu - to act as a guiding conscience for society.
Sathienphong Wannapok, a Buddhist scholar, lamented the passing on Wednesday of one of Thailand's most revered monks, Phra Panyanandha.
"Now Buddhism in Thai society won't have any direction. Superstitious materials will become the focus of all, although the main duty of the monks is to practice the Dhamma and teach the people to understand the essence of Buddhism," he said.
"Monks in the old days had a very high spirit. Nowadays we can find very few of them."
Phra Panyanandha followed the tradition of Phra Buddhadas Bhikkhu, the well-known reformist monk who advocated Buddhism in its purest form without any embellishments. Phra Buddhadas' scholarly writings and preaching sparked a reform movement in Buddhism in this country by calling for Buddhists to return to the original texts or original teaching of the Lord Buddha.
While Phra Buddhadas, who died in 2003, devoted his teaching on Buddhist metaphysics at the highest level, Phra Panya-nandha applied the Buddha's teaching in easy terms so that common people could understand it. Both monks broke away from mainstream Buddhism, which comes with heavily coated rituals that have nothing to do with the essence of Buddhism. -
Originally posted by sinweiy:
so karma is empty or not ?
another important note:
of all things that are empty in nature, there's one thing that is not . and that's Karma or the [b]Law of cause and effect, my friend.
heard of what happen to the master who wrote that the Law of cause and effect is empty?
key word is in the "Law" (of change).
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