Tell them you have no faith. Period. Religion dun work without faith. That's the only criteria. If they still dun get it (that's why I bloody dun believe in a religion, cos of all these numbskull salesmen/women of religion some call evangelists), just get offensive!
Ok, kidding on the latter portion.
I now feel its just a matter of time that most people convert to christianity.
My friends and the people i know are all going to church. Do i have to follow the way like they do?
Hi wilsonhao,
no you don't, and you don't have to feel pressured into. And, it's not true that most people are going to convert either. Just because people go to church, doesn't mean that they are all going to convert to Christianity either.
Tell them that you already believe in Jesus but you believe that he is a brother to Buddha.
the statement is true if your friend is a christian as christians called GOD father and they also believe that Jesus is son of GOD since GOD is father to all man and Buddha was once a man, Jesus is Buddha's brother
Originally posted by ChiBet:Tell them that you already believe in Jesus but you believe that he is a brother to Buddha.
the statement is true if your friend is a christian as christians called GOD father and they also believe that Jesus is son of GOD since GOD is father to all man and Buddha was once a man, Jesus is Buddha's brother
ai seh, good point
Had lunch with a devout Christian friend today. Although we agreed not to have any debates on religious matters, she still regularly brought up the issues of how God created man and how we must appreciate the lessons given by Him. I just kept silent throughout.
It seems like Christians can't appreciate the fact that there are many ways to enlightenment (84,000 dharma doors), and keep imposing on us that the only way is through God. Don't they understand that this just makes them look egoistic, with this 'I know what's best for you' attitude?
Originally posted by Rick555:Had lunch with a devout Christian friend today. Although we agreed not to have any debates on religious matters, she still regularly brought up the issues of how God created man and how we must appreciate the lessons given by Him. I just kept silent throughout.
It seems like Christians can't appreciate the fact that there are many ways to enlightenment (84,000 dharma doors), and keep imposing on us that the only way is through God. Don't they understand that this just makes them look egoistic, with this 'I know what's best for you' attitude?
Buddhist views and Christian views are fundamentally different on many levels... for example the most obvious of all is the Monotheistic view held by Christianity and Abrahamic religions. We can never reconcile the views of a personal Creator/God with Buddhism, Buddhism does not accept the view of a Creator.
The goals of Christianity is also quite different -- their goal is not 'enlightenment' but 'salvation' which can only be achieved through a savior. Buddhism does not believe in salvation and does not believe in external saviors. Hence, we're really talking about different things.
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Buddhist views and Christian views are fundamentally different on many levels... for example the most obvious of all is the Monotheistic view held by Christianity and Abrahamic religions. We can never reconcile the views of a personal Creator/God with Buddhism, Buddhism does not accept the view of a Creator.
The goals of Christianity is also quite different -- their goal is not 'enlightenment' but 'salvation' which can only be achieved through a savior. Buddhism does not believe in salvation and does not believe in external saviors. Hence, we're really talking about different things.
Somehow, I think that Christianity might just be one of the dharma doors to enlightenment. Although the notion of a creator is not accepted by Buddhism, it could be that the Christian God is trying to persuade ppl to follow his way, which is basically to do good. I deem that God's paradise might be the same as our Buddha pureland.
While I can accept Christianity as one of the ways, most Christians cannot accept Buddhism as it is.
Originally posted by Rick555:Somehow, I think that Christianity might just be one of the dharma doors to enlightenment. Although the notion of a creator is not accepted by Buddhism, it could be that the Christian God is trying to persuade ppl to follow his way, which is basically to do good. I deem that God's paradise might be the same as our Buddha pureland.
While I can accept Christianity as one of the ways, most Christians cannot accept Buddhism as it is.
There can be many dharma doors that we not aware, but there is definitely no dharma door that deny the concept of cause and effect and attempt to look down on buddha and dharma.
Originally posted by Rick555:Somehow, I think that Christianity might just be one of the dharma doors to enlightenment. Although the notion of a creator is not accepted by Buddhism, it could be that the Christian God is trying to persuade ppl to follow his way, which is basically to do good. I deem that God's paradise might be the same as our Buddha pureland.
While I can accept Christianity as one of the ways, most Christians cannot accept Buddhism as it is.
I wouldn't say that the common religious teachings of Christianity is a way to enlightenment, because the path to enlightenment is not only about doing good and avoiding evil.
The teachings of 'avoid all evil and do all good' is present in all kinds of religious teachings, and in fact is not peculiar to the teachings of religion. Our moral education basically teaches the same things, so do our own parents... morality is very much part of our culture. 'Avoiding all evil and do all good' will prevent the accumulation of negative karmas and lead to the accumulation of wholesome karma. As a result of this, the person can be reborn in higher realms of existence... perhaps even the heaven of the 33 gods.
But this does not mean that he is anywhere near the path towards enlightenment, it is only the path towards a better rebirth in samsara. More enjoyment and less pain, but by no means 'the end of suffering' in the sense of Nirvana or liberation. While enjoying the fruition of their good karma (which are temporary and still of the nature of Dukkha) they have not liberated from the source of suffering.
All the religions in the world that promotes morality and encourages wholesomeness leads their followers to the path of heaven, but it is only Buddhism that teaches about 'Liberation'. This can be done only by 'purification of mind' and this 'purification' is through liberating wisdom and insight into the nature of reality.
When the Buddha taught 'avoid all evil, do all good, and purify the mind' most people only know about the first two but it is the third that is the essential part, the part of liberation. While the first two only ensures a good rebirth and positive conditions for the continuation of our dharma practice. So to summarise, other religions only teach the path of goodness but not the path of liberation and enlightenment, which Buddhism alone teaches. Hence not all religions are the same.
唯佛宗世界人乘佛教：净化人心
www.rencheng.com
Ven Shen Kai
圣开导师说：“å¦ä½›ä¿®è¡Œè¦�净化人心，唯有人 心净化，人类æ‰�有幸ç¦�，世间æ‰�有快ä¹�。”
å› æ¤åœ£å¼€å¯¼å¸ˆæ��倡“é�©å¿ƒ”，所谓é�©å¿ƒå°±æ˜¯æ”¹ é€ è‡ªå·±çš„å¿ƒï¼Œå‡€åŒ–è‡ªå·±çš„å¿ƒã€‚
人 人都有心，我们的心是å�ƒå�˜ä¸‡åŒ–çš„ï¼Œä¸Šå¤©å ‚ï¼Œ 下地狱，在å…é�“é‡Œè½¬è½®å›žï¼Œéƒ½æ˜¯äººå¿ƒæ‰€é€ å‡ºæ�¥ 的。人心善则有善的感应；人心æ�¶åŒ–了，自然
感应ç§�ç§�苦æ�¼ä¸�如æ„�ã€‚å°±å› ä¸ºå½“ä»Šä¸–ç•Œäººå¿ƒè¶‹å�‘æ�¶åŒ–，有了贪嗔痴ç‰æ— 明 愚痴的心念，æ�€ç›—æ·«ç‰ä¸€åˆ‡ä¸�好的事情就产生
的，人类的幸ç¦�é€�æ¸�å‡�少，而å…é�“è½®å›žä¹Ÿæ˜¯å› äººå¿ƒçš„æ�¶åŒ–å½¢æˆ�的。世间许 多人类的ä¸�å¹¸ï¼Œå°±æ˜¯å› ä¸ºå�ƒå�ƒä¸‡ä¸‡çš„ä¸�善业所
感。而人身体所å�šçš„行为，å�£æ‰€è¯´çš„言è¯ï¼Œéƒ½ 是å�‘之于“æ„�”，æ„�å°±æ˜¯å¿ƒå¿µï¼Œäººç±»å°±æ˜¯å› ä¸º 没有智慧觉照，常常被自己
的心所欺骗，ä¸�æ˜Žå› æžœï¼Œä¸�知所å�šçš„事，对自 å·±æˆ–ä»–äººæœ‰åˆ©æˆ–æœ‰å®³ï¼Œå› æ„šç—´è€Œé€ æ�¶ä¸šï¼Œæ‰€ä»¥ ä¸�幸与痛苦也就跟ç�€æ�¥äº†ã€‚
许多宗教都是教人è¦�行善，ä¸�è¦�å�šæ�¶ï¼Œå”¯ç‹¬ä½› 教除了教人“诸æ�¶èŽ«ä½œï¼Œä¼—善奉行”之外，还 教人è¦�“自净其æ„�”，æ„�念清净了，自然就没
有贪嗔痴，也就没有一切�好的行为。
很多人以为行善就是净化人心，以为诸æ�¶èŽ«ä½œ ï¼Œä¼—å–„å¥‰è¡Œï¼Œå°±æ˜¯æ¸…å‡€ï¼Œå…¶å®žè¿™æ ·è¿˜ä¸�够，è¦� 把æ„�也净了，把æ„�å�˜æˆ�觉，æ‰�是清净。å�ªè¦�å�š
到自净其�，就是净化人心。
心有污染的时候，我们就è¦�净化自己，用佛的 甘露æ�¥æŠŠå¿ƒæ´—干净，常常观心，ä¸�è®©è‡ªå·±çš„æ— æ˜Žç”Ÿèµ·ã€‚å¦‚æžœæˆ‘ä»¬çš„å¿ƒå‡€åŒ–äº†ï¼Œå®¶åºæ¯�一个人
也净化了，这个社会也就净化了，�使�个社 会都净化了，人类统统都净化了，那么我们这 个世间就�为人间净土了。
Another thing is as Longchen said in the past, "There is some similarities in the beginning as the Founders expound
on certain fundamental truths.
But what the various religions have become is utterly different
now."
Originally posted by Rick555:Somehow, I think that Christianity might just be one of the dharma doors to enlightenment. Although the notion of a creator is not accepted by Buddhism, it could be that the Christian God is trying to persuade ppl to follow his way, which is basically to do good. I deem that God's paradise might be the same as our Buddha pureland.
While I can accept Christianity as one of the ways, most Christians cannot accept Buddhism as it is.
BTW in Christianity the belief is that we are created by a personal God and we need to be saved by the savior Jesus (otherwise we will be damned/go to hell). Hence they insist that salvation is only possible through Jesus. They do not believe in 'the path to enlightenment' much less 'many paths to enlightenment' -- they have very different goals in mind.
So in the first place these Christian concepts are fundamentally different and thus irrelevant in the eyes of Buddhism, which does not accept the belief of a Creator, or of 'salvation'. We do not believe in being created by a God or being 'saved', we believe that the end of suffering can be achieved through liberation and insight into the nature of reality. And of course these are not just 'beliefs', it is actualisable -- many people have realised for themselves in their very lifetime.
Tell them to come to temple and pray to the Gods in the temple then you go their church. Tell them reason for doing so is because you want them to respect your Gods first then you go their church.
I sympathise with you. The thing is that some Christians just go all out to get you to join them. The reason I don't believe in religion is because I don't believe in doing things just because there are rituals to follow. I DO believe that personal values and morale values are important, and indeed religion does play a part in this. Yet I simply cannot stand doing something just because it's a ritual/ tradition if no one can explain the reason behind it.
Perhaps you should challenge these people who want you to go to church with them: Go with them to church for one day, and they have to go to a buddhist place of worship with you for another day.
If they refuse (they are likely to), then you have successfully turned them down. If they accept, it means you get other people to understand your culture and see that there is nothing exceptionally wrong about it. Win-win situation. =)
Originally posted by Pwins9:Tell them to come to temple and pray to the Gods in the temple then you go their church. Tell them reason for doing so is because you want them to respect your Gods first then you go their church.
Actually Buddhists don't pray to gods... that is more of the Chinese folk traditions/Taoists.
Originally posted by MrSean:I sympathise with you. The thing is that some Christians just go all out to get you to join them. The reason I don't believe in religion is because I don't believe in doing things just because there are rituals to follow. I DO believe that personal values and morale values are important, and indeed religion does play a part in this. Yet I simply cannot stand doing something just because it's a ritual/ tradition if no one can explain the reason behind it.
Well said...
Kalama Sutra
"Rely not on the teacher/person, but on the teaching. Rely not on
the words of the teaching, but on the
spirit of the words. Rely not on theory, but on experience.Do not
believe in anything simply because you
have heard it. Do not believe in traditions because they have been
handed down for many generations. Do
not believe anything because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do
not believe in anything because it is
written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely
on the authority of your teachers and
elders. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything
agrees with reason and is
conducive to the good and the benefit of one and all, then accept
it and live up to it."
- the Buddha
Full sutta: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an03/an03.065.than.html
Originally posted by MrSean:I sympathise with you. The thing is that some Christians just go all out to get you to join them. The reason I don't believe in religion is because I don't believe in doing things just because there are rituals to follow. I DO believe that personal values and morale values are important, and indeed religion does play a part in this. Yet I simply cannot stand doing something just because it's a ritual/ tradition if no one can explain the reason behind it.
Perhaps you should challenge these people who want you to go to church with them: Go with them to church for one day, and they have to go to a buddhist place of worship with you for another day.
If they refuse (they are likely to), then you have successfully turned them down. If they accept, it means you get other people to understand your culture and see that there is nothing exceptionally wrong about it. Win-win situation. =)
Actually my friend did not ask me to go to church, just that she kept mentioning God in every topic. It's that in every conversation she wanted to insert her God into it. Things like why I go for vegetarian food and why she doesn't believe in it etc. It really makes conversation difficult to go on. And I don't want to add my Buddhist view into it because I believe in non-conflict.
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:I wouldn't say that the common religious teachings of Christianity is a way to enlightenment, because the path to enlightenment is not only about doing good and avoiding evil.
The teachings of 'avoid all evil and do all good' is present in all kinds of religious teachings, and in fact is not peculiar to the teachings of religion. Our moral education basically teaches the same things, so do our own parents... morality is very much part of our culture. 'Avoiding all evil and do all good' will prevent the accumulation of negative karmas and lead to the accumulation of wholesome karma. As a result of this, the person can be reborn in higher realms of existence... perhaps even the heaven of the 33 gods.
But this does not mean that he is anywhere near the path towards enlightenment, it is only the path towards a better rebirth in samsara. More enjoyment and less pain, but by no means 'the end of suffering' in the sense of Nirvana or liberation. While enjoying the fruition of their good karma (which are temporary and still of the nature of Dukkha) they have not liberated from the source of suffering.
All the religions in the world that promotes morality and encourages wholesomeness leads their followers to the path of heaven, but it is only Buddhism that teaches about 'Liberation'. This can be done only by 'purification of mind' and this 'purification' is through liberating wisdom and insight into the nature of reality.
When the Buddha taught 'avoid all evil, do all good, and purify the mind' most people only know about the first two but it is the third that is the essential part, the part of liberation. While the first two only ensures a good rebirth and positive conditions for the continuation of our dharma practice. So to summarise, other religions only teach the path of goodness but not the path of liberation and enlightenment, which Buddhism alone teaches. Hence not all religions are the same.
唯佛宗世界人乘佛教：净化人心
www.rencheng.com
Ven Shen Kai
圣开导师说：“å¦ä½›ä¿®è¡Œè¦�净化人心，唯有人 心净化，人类æ‰�有幸ç¦�，世间æ‰�有快ä¹�。”
å› æ¤åœ£å¼€å¯¼å¸ˆæ��倡“é�©å¿ƒ”，所谓é�©å¿ƒå°±æ˜¯æ”¹ é€ è‡ªå·±çš„å¿ƒï¼Œå‡€åŒ–è‡ªå·±çš„å¿ƒã€‚
人 人都有心，我们的心是å�ƒå�˜ä¸‡åŒ–çš„ï¼Œä¸Šå¤©å ‚ï¼Œ 下地狱，在å…é�“é‡Œè½¬è½®å›žï¼Œéƒ½æ˜¯äººå¿ƒæ‰€é€ å‡ºæ�¥ 的。人心善则有善的感应；人心æ�¶åŒ–了，自然感应ç§�ç§�苦æ�¼ä¸�如æ„�ã€‚å°±å› ä¸ºå½“ä»Šä¸–ç•Œäººå¿ƒè¶‹å�‘æ�¶åŒ–，有了贪嗔痴ç‰æ— 明 愚痴的心念，æ�€ç›—æ·«ç‰ä¸€åˆ‡ä¸�好的事情就产生的，人类的幸ç¦�é€�æ¸�å‡�少，而å…é�“è½®å›žä¹Ÿæ˜¯å› äººå¿ƒçš„æ�¶åŒ–å½¢æˆ�的。世间许 多人类的ä¸�å¹¸ï¼Œå°±æ˜¯å› ä¸ºå�ƒå�ƒä¸‡ä¸‡çš„ä¸�善业所感。而人身体所å�šçš„行为，å�£æ‰€è¯´çš„言è¯ï¼Œéƒ½ 是å�‘之于“æ„�”，æ„�å°±æ˜¯å¿ƒå¿µï¼Œäººç±»å°±æ˜¯å› ä¸º 没有智慧觉照，常常被自己的心所欺骗，ä¸�æ˜Žå› æžœï¼Œä¸�知所å�šçš„事，对自 å·±æˆ–ä»–äººæœ‰åˆ©æˆ–æœ‰å®³ï¼Œå› æ„šç—´è€Œé€ æ�¶ä¸šï¼Œæ‰€ä»¥ ä¸�幸与痛苦也就跟ç�€æ�¥äº†ã€‚
许多宗教都是教人è¦�行善，ä¸�è¦�å�šæ�¶ï¼Œå”¯ç‹¬ä½› 教除了教人“诸æ�¶èŽ«ä½œï¼Œä¼—善奉行”之外，还 教人è¦�“自净其æ„�”，æ„�念清净了，自然就没有贪嗔痴，也就没有一切ä¸�好的行为。
很多人以为行善就是净化人心，以为诸æ�¶èŽ«ä½œ ï¼Œä¼—å–„å¥‰è¡Œï¼Œå°±æ˜¯æ¸…å‡€ï¼Œå…¶å®žè¿™æ ·è¿˜ä¸�够，è¦� 把æ„�也净了，把æ„�å�˜æˆ�觉，æ‰�是清净。å�ªè¦�å�šåˆ°è‡ªå‡€å…¶æ„�，就是净化人心。
心有污染的时候，我们就è¦�净化自己，用佛的 甘露æ�¥æŠŠå¿ƒæ´—干净，常常观心，ä¸�è®©è‡ªå·±çš„æ— æ˜Žç”Ÿèµ·ã€‚å¦‚æžœæˆ‘ä»¬çš„å¿ƒå‡€åŒ–äº†ï¼Œå®¶åºæ¯�一个人也净化了，这个社会也就净化了，å�‡ä½¿æ¯�个社 会都净化了，人类统统都净化了，那么我们这 个世间就æˆ�为人间净土了。Another thing is as Longchen said in the past, "There is some similarities in the beginning as the Founders expound on certain fundamental truths.
But what the various religions have become is utterly different now."
Don't get me wrong. I don't believe that the Christian God can lead us to nirvana; no offense to the christians. But I do believe that their God is just one of the many around, and he has misunderstandingly thought that he's the creator. However, his intention is good and through him, Christians will at least be born into the heaven realms, and hopefully will stay there until Maitreya Buddha comes into this world. Then they can get liberated through him. At least they're going to have a good life until liberation rather than being born into the lower realms eons after eons waiting for Maitreya.
You see, that's the problem with us Buddhists, we tend to hold our views back because we think it will result in conflict. But i think, sometimes, you have to be a little direct and tell your friend that you feel uncomfortable, and sometimes, you should be a little stronger and add or state your views.
Also, it's stated that those in the heavenly realms are one of those least receptive to hear the Buddha-Dharma, because they enjoy themselves so much that they do not find any need in wanting to even hear. Christians definetly do not believe in Maitreya, and who knows if they will even have a good life or get reborn in the lower realms after this life ends. Doesn't mean that if you are a Christian you automatically get born in heaven. For them, there's still the belief in the intermediatary period until resurrection during the Final Judgement.
Also, Pure Land in Pure Land Buddhism is WAYYYY different from the christian concept of heaven. Pure Land = Enlightenment, ie, you go to Pure Land, get Enlightened, then come back to lead other beings on the Path to Buddhahood; whereas heaven is still within the cycle of birth-and-death.
Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:1. Tell him that you want to and will believe that there is a God/his God but he has to show you proof and evidence that God / his God exists. It is only fair is it not? He wants you to believe, he has to come up with the proof and evidence.
2. Tell him that the proof and evidence you require must be real proof and evidence and you cannot accept what "other people say" as proof and evidence.
3. Tell him that you cannot accept what the Bible say because you do not believe in the Bible.
4. Tell him the proof you require is of a very high standard and you need to see God in action (not the David Copperfield kind).
5. Tell him you don't need to see God directly but he must show you proof and evidence of indisputable acts of God (not the Thaipusam kind, indirect and can be open to other interpretations).
6. Tell him you need independent proof and evidence and not subjective proof and evidence and that you don't trust your own feelings and imaginations.
Let him tell you anything he wants and at the end of it tell him, "Sorry, but I require proof and evidence of a high standard before I believe."
If he tells you "go and see" for yourself. remind him of point 6.
Every time he talks to you again, just tell him "I want to believe but have you come up with the proof and evidence I require?"
This is something similar of what i SHOOT my friend, he's dulan after i said that, cuz i don believe at all. Always always they want you to go, christian got 2types ma....
Actually very simple, to be polite, you just smile, to reject the invitation, tell him straight "dunch want".
If he repeatedly ask, everytime he ask, you then talk about buddhism, tell him that Jesus actually disappeared for a few years to study buddhism, and the bible concept of world creation in fact come from the buddhism.
Originally posted by Display Name:Actually very simple, to be polite, you just smile, to reject the invitation, tell him straight "dunch want".
If he repeatedly ask, everytime he ask, you then talk about buddhism, tell him that Jesus actually disappeared for a few years to study buddhism, and the bible concept of world creation in fact come from the buddhism.
Yup tell them that Jesus went to india to study Buddhism/Hinduism and Yoga under Buddha.
some christians will say that God give everyone free will, and he let people choose whether to believe him or not. However, they are contradicting themselves. Why do i say that? Because when we do not believe in christianity, they condemn us to eternal hell as a punishment for not believing in their God. If God really gave everyone free will, should there be punishment in the name of freewill?
Secondly, when someone did something bad, they will say " Its not God who did it, Its the devil who make so and so do such things". In this case, where is the free will that they had spoken about? And anyway why subject all good happenings to be grace of God and unfortunate events to be the work of the devil?
Freewill exist but it comes from ourself. We give ourselves that, and not anyone else. Whatever good and bad we do, it is us that does the final action whether or not influenced.
Very simple. Come my Buddhist Temple, I'll go to your church.