How to politely decline invitations to church?
-
Originally posted by lowkks:
Very simple. Come my Buddhist Temple, I'll go to your church.
Welcome your posting :) low :)its been a long time man :P
-
So what if your friend stop asking you to go church. But instead, he give you a bible and talk about the bible teaching with you everyday? Choose 1
1) Tell him that I have read the bible before coz I was once a christian.
2) Accept the bible and next time give him the 大��.
3) Happily discuss the bible teaching with him and point out the flaw.
4) Asking him is it possible to invite you to go his church to share buddhism teaching with them. -
There is a 5th option.... Quietly accept the Bible and then put it into the paper recycle bin.
I did just that during one Good Friday Holiday. I was in a shopping mall minding my own business when a group of Christians passed me some evangelist materials. They insisted that I accept the materials no matter how hard I refused. In the end, I shut my mouth, accepted these materials and dumped them into a nearby recycle bin.
Christians are happy that I 'accepted' their materials. I am happy coz the Christians left me alone... and Mother Gaia is happy about the recycling.
Problem solved
-
Originally posted by Beyond Religion:
There is a 5th option.... Quietly accept the Bible and then put it into the paper recycle bin.
I did just that during one Good Friday Holiday. I was in a shopping mall minding my own business when a group of Christians passed me some evangelist materials. They insisted that I accept the materials no matter how hard I refused. In the end, I shut my mouth, accepted these materials and dumped them into a nearby recycle bin.
Christians are happy that I 'accepted' their materials. I am happy coz the Christians left me alone... and Mother Gaia is happy about the recycling.
Problem solved
How wise =)
-
Originally posted by justdoit77:
So what if your friend stop asking you to go church. But instead, he give you a bible and talk about the bible teaching with you everyday? Choose 1
1) Tell him that I have read the bible before coz I was once a christian.
2) Accept the bible and next time give him the 大��.
3) Happily discuss the bible teaching with him and point out the flaw.
4) Asking him is it possible to invite you to go his church to share buddhism teaching with them.
2), 3) and 4) is impossible for them. You must know that they will also worship their God and never worship others. Then when they have to participate in some funerals, some wont like it because they were taught that they are 'pagan' and so on. And if you share buddhism they may say the devil is speaking through you or that you are going to helll and so on. I dont mean all christians are like that but many are.And somehow, what they say about other religions as pagan is completely flawed.
-
Originally posted by Beyond Religion:
There is a 5th option.... Quietly accept the Bible and then put it into the paper recycle bin.
I did just that during one Good Friday Holiday. I was in a shopping mall minding my own business when a group of Christians passed me some evangelist materials. They insisted that I accept the materials no matter how hard I refused. In the end, I shut my mouth, accepted these materials and dumped them into a nearby recycle bin.
Christians are happy that I 'accepted' their materials. I am happy coz the Christians left me alone... and Mother Gaia is happy about the recycling.
Problem solved
wah, fierce, but it is really a you-win evangelist-win and mother-gaia-win situation.
-
Throughout my life I've tried to avoid any conflicts with Christians, but many of them are just plain insensitive. I just came across this religion bashing website by the Christians :
http://christiananswers.net//q-aiia/letter-buddhisminterview.html
-
Originally posted by Rick555:
Throughout my life I've tried to avoid any conflicts with Christians, but many of them are just plain insensitive. I just came across this religion bashing website by the Christians :
http://christiananswers.net//q-aiia/letter-buddhisminterview.html
I've taken a look at this website and obviously this one's trying to bash other religions apart from it. And their response to these buddhist beliefs will surely shock and stun buddhists who do not have much knowledge of their own religion, but never real buddhists who cultivate or study their own religion. Their explainations to me is flawed and i think before they talk about nirvana and what beyond good or evil, talk about daily life first because they are using supermudane teachings to go against the mudane world, which is something that wont trick anyone if they look properly. -
Those questions are simple and can easily be answered.
-
Thought this website was up long ago?
-
If such questions were to be answered by me.
1. Causes and conditions, giving rise to the experience of 5 skhandas. The 5 skhandas are mistaken to be self, giving rise to a false sense of self.
It is a false assumption that Nirvana is the cessation of a self. There is no entity that is ceased, no entity 'self' can ever be found in the first place within nor apart from the 5 skhandas.
There are two levels of nirvana: nirvana with remainder, and nirvana without remainder.
An enlightened person attains nirvana with remainder while he is still alive, in that the ignorance of being a separate self/entity and permanency has been eradicated. However, the conditions for the sustainence of his body/mind is still present, therefore he still appears with a body and a mind.
But while he is still appearing in the realm of samsara, in actuality he is constantly in Nirvana for all traces of illusions, defilements & afflictions have ended for him (and I'm talking about Arhats and above, those of lower levels of enlightenment such as stream-enterer, once-returner and non-returner have not reached that level). Which means, suffering has ended for him (the fully liberated one). That is nirvana with remainder.
Nirvana without remainder is simply like the blowing out of a flame (i.e. 5 skhandas) because there is no more fuel (conditions) to burn. In this case, the fuel is the conditions for further births. Nirvana is simply the absence of further conditions for birth and suffering. The difference with the previous nirvana is, once nirvana without remainder is arrived at (there is no arriving at somewhere actually, just a 'blowing out'), the body and mind has 'ceased' to manifest.
Questions such as "where does it go?" does not apply, just as the fire does not go north, south, east, west after blowing out, it simply stops burning due to the absence of causes and conditions.
2. There is no God, but it is entirely possible to attain enlightenment and know in our direct experience what is the truth. Buddhism stresses on experiential realisation more than any other religions, most of which are only 'belief based'. But if it is 'belief based', how can we know with certainty what we think is true to be really true? Even if there are 'supernatural occurences', they can be easily explained off as all religions have supernatural encounters and miracles as well. It does not necessarily mean there is a personal Creator God.
But Buddhism does not depend on 'external signs' and is not just a form of 'belief' -- it is actually a spiritual science in which you can discover reality for yourselves.
The Perfect One is free from any theory, for the Perfect One has understood what the body is, and how it arises, and passes away. He has understood what feeling is, and how it arises, and passes away. He has understood what perception is, and how it arises, and passes away. He has understood what the mental formations are, and how they arise, and pass away. He has understood what consciousness is, and how it arises, and passes away.
Therefore, I say, the Perfect One has won complete deliverance through the extinction, fading away, disappearance, rejection, and getting rid of all opinions and conjectures, of all inclination to the vainglory of I and mine.
- Majjhima Nikaya, 723. There are Buddhas prior to Shakyamuni, and certainly in the far future, but the dispensation of dharma is intermittent. The question of "Why do you suppose that you, of all humankind, were the one to come on this insight when you did?" can be answered by, "many many lifetimes of practice".
4. Being enlightened means one has eradicated fetters leading to violence and harmfulness. Such a person cannot act in a way out of hatred or violence. Instead, one grows in compassion.
5. The Jesus of the bible (dating approx. 40 BCE - 10 BCE) is little more than a somewhat fanciful rendering of the Mithraic creeds which were current in 40 BCE Palestine. The resultant figure was a composite of several myths invented or revised by the political gamesmanship at the Council of Nicaea in 325 CE. And of the dozens of authors writing and revising the bible over several centuries after the death of Jesus.
Fortunately however some of the words of the real Jesus, uncorrupted by the political aspirations of Constantinian, Nicean, and early and late church and fundamentalists revisionisms have been found in the dead sea scrolls, notably the Gospel of Thomas. From here echoes of the true and deep awakening of the man can be heard. ~ http://www.sentient.org/past/jesus.html
6. I love them all. There are 84000 dharma doors to the same goal. Choose one and walk the path.
7. Buddha cannot be wrong, because his understanding is not theoretical, for he knows the nature of reality by direct experience. He directly realises that which is undeniable, more real than real. Our Buddha-Nature is ever-present and cannot be denied. I would call it 'original purity and luminosity' than 'goodness'. This is not a moral statement. When one is enlightened, no doubts can ever arise to That. And since the Buddha, numberless practitioners have also become enlightened to the nature of reality, and attained liberation. Such people who directly realised the truth in experience exists even today, even in this forum. That is also the goal for all of us. The thing about Buddhism is it is not just a belief but is experience-able and realisable in this very lifetime. Buddha provided the way.
8. Being good and avoiding evil is a requisite to attaining Nirvana (but to attain Nirvana takes more than 'being good and avoiding evil' which simply leads to good karma and good rebirth -- to attain enlightenment & nirvana, to purifying the mind/develope wisdom, insights is the more essential part). But if you ask me why do I do good, it is simply out of good-will and compassion that I act in a virtuous way, to benefit all sentient beings. Compassion is an important virtue stressed in Buddhism.
9. Why is it contradictory in the first place? And who said that liberation is through resisting desires? Wrong statements. In the state of seeking, there cannot be real happiness. True happiness comes only when there is contentment, joy in the perfection of this moment. We all feel that when we are happy, but unfortunately we will get carried away into a state of dissatisfaction and seeking again very quickly. The highest bliss of Nirvana is not dependent on the presence of certain conditioned phenomena, is unmoving.
"Nirvana is the highest bliss." ~ Buddha
10. 1) Of course he did. Take a look at the recent case of a 16 year old 'buddha boy' in India, he sat for months and years in samadhi uninterruptedly without eating or drinking. If a 16 year old boy can achieve that, why not a Buddha-to-be. 2) It is his long cultivated virtue as a Bodhisattva over many many lifetimes. 3) It is for the greater good of his family -- his son was admitted into the Sangha at 7 years old, his wife too renounced, and both attain liberation/enlightenment/Arhatship. His father did also attain Nirvana on the brink of death. Hence he freed his family and many men from the endless miseries of samsara.
-
Updated
-
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
If such questions were to be answered by me.
1. Causes and conditions, giving rise to the experience of 5 skhandas. The 5 skhandas are mistaken to be self, giving rise to a false sense of self.
It is a false assumption that Nirvana is the cessation of a self. There is no entity that is ceased, no entity 'self' can ever be found in the first place within nor apart from the 5 skhandas.
Nirvana is simply like the blowing out of a flame (i.e. 5 skhandas) because there is no more fuel (conditions) to burn. In this case, the fuel is the conditions for further births. Nirvana is simply the absence of further conditions for birth and suffering.
Questions such as "where does it go?" does not apply, just as the fire does not go north, south, east, west after blowing out, it simply stops burning due to the absence of causes and conditions.
2. There is no God, but it is entirely possible to attain enlightenment and know in our direct experience what is the truth.
3. There are Buddhas prior to Shakyamuni, and certainly in the far future, but the dispensation of dharma is intermittent. The question of "Why do you suppose that you, of all humankind, were the one to come on this insight when you did?" can be answered by, "many many lifetimes of practice".
4. Being enlightened means one has eradicated fetters leading to violence and harmfulness. Such a person cannot act in a way out of hatred or violence. Instead, one grows in compassion.
5. The Jesus of the bible (dating approx. 40 BCE - 10 BCE) is little more than a somewhat fanciful rendering of the Mithraic creeds which were current in 40 BCE Palestine. The resultant figure was a composite of several myths invented or revised by the political gamesmanship at the Council of Nicaea in 325 CE. And of the dozens of authors writing and revising the bible over several centuries after the death of Jesus.
Fortunately however some of the words of the real Jesus, uncorrupted by the political aspirations of Constantinian, Nicean, and early and late church and fundamentalists revisionisms have been found in the dead sea scrolls, notably the Gospel of Thomas. From here echoes of the true and deep awakening of the man can be heard. ~ http://www.sentient.org/past/jesus.html
6. I love them all. There are 84000 dharma doors to the same goal. Choose one and walk the path.
7. Buddha cannot be wrong, because his understanding is not theoretical, for he knows the nature of reality by direct experience. He directly realises that which is undeniable, more real than real. Our Buddha-Nature is ever-present and cannot be denied. I would call it 'original purity and luminosity' than 'goodness'. This is not a moral statement. When one is enlightened, no doubts can ever arise to That. And since the Buddha, numberless practitioners have also become enlightened to the nature of reality, and attained liberation. Such people who directly realised the truth in experience exists even today, even in this forum. That is also the goal for all of us. The thing about Buddhism is it is not just a belief but is experience-able and realisable in this very lifetime. Buddha provided the way.
8. Being good and avoiding evil is a requisite to attaining Nirvana (but to attain Nirvana takes more than 'being good and avoiding evil' which simply leads to good karma and good rebirth -- to attain enlightenment & nirvana, to purifying the mind/develope wisdom, insights is the more essential part). But if you ask me why do I do good, it is simply out of good-will and compassion that I act in a virtuous way, to benefit all sentient beings. Compassion is an important virtue stressed in Buddhism.
9. Why is it contradictory in the first place? And who said that liberation is through resisting desires? Wrong statements. In the state of seeking, there cannot be real happiness. True happiness comes only when there is contentment, joy in the perfection of this moment. We all feel that when we are happy, but unfortunately we will get carried away into a state of dissatisfaction and seeking again very quickly. The highest bliss of Nirvana is not dependent on the presence of certain conditioned phenomena, is unmoving.
"Nirvana is the highest bliss." ~ Buddha
10. 1) Of course he did. Take a look at the recent case of a 16 year old 'buddha boy' in India, he sat for months and years in samadhi uninterruptedly without eating or drinking. If a 16 year old boy can achieve that, why not a Buddha-to-be. 2) It is his long cultivated virtue as a Bodhisattva over many many lifetimes. 3) It is for the greater good of his family -- his son was admitted into the Sangha at 7 years old, his wife too renounced, and both attain liberation/enlightenment/Arhatship. His father did also attain Nirvana on the brink of death. Hence he freed his family and many men from the endless miseries of samsara.
I hope the owners of website christainanawers.net got the chance to read your post( although I doubt if they understand...).
I believe most of the time they don't know what they're challenging against as it's obvious that they have no clue what Buddhism is all about; or maybe they just don't want to know what Buddhism is about.Its always a real pity to see fine people with zest putting all their resources into denouncing the religions of others. There are actually so much to do, so much to gain, if, only if, they could just stop for a while and think.
-
Originally posted by cycle:
I hope the owners of website christainanawers.net got the chance to read your post( although I doubt if they understand...). I believe most of the time they don't know
what they're challenging against as it's obvious that they have no
clue what Buddhism is all about; or maybe they just don't want to
know what Buddhism is about.Its always a real pity to see fine people with zest putting all their resources into denouncing the religions of others. There are actually so much to do, so much to gain, if, only if, they could just stop for a while and think.
That is so true... holding onto a dogmatic mindset and refusing to stop and consider what Buddhist teachings is all about, this is a great hindrance.
-
Those who want to denounce the religions of others, go do serious reading of Buddhism first. Because 101% of the time, if you do not have a good grasp of Buddhism, you will make alot of false assumptions and poor judgements about the teachings based on what you have heard, always incomplete and sometimes totally false, from unreliable sources.
My Master was once a Christian pastor of a Chinese missionary, and he used to denounced Buddhism through offensive remarks and degradation of Buddhism as superstitious and demonic (obviously at that time he has mistaken Buddhism as a kind of 'folk religion' and has little understanding of the Buddhist teachings). He was also an author of a Christian book, on the study of the bible.
His excuse when asked by his professor for insulting Buddhism is "the other pastors are all doing it, if I don't, they'll say I don't know how to preach." His university professor then asked him to go do research and will be fully supportive of him if he writes a critique out of it. After he did his research, he realised he has completely wronged Buddhism, and found what he has always sought for... and converted.
Even the intention of blasphemy can become a good condition... provided that he is open minded and actually reads and consider what is being taught. My master said, the reason he came to Buddhism is because he 骂佛教
There are also many other similar cases of Christian pastors who wished to denounce Buddhism, went to research on it and converted instead. Some of them became famous Buddhist translators.On the other hand, I think there are few or none to my knowledge and encounters of true Buddhists who has a grasp of the teachings and is serious in studying the dharma and practice, who have converted elsewhere. At least I never met before. I have many Buddhist friends, and even my local dharma teacher (not my Master), who converted over from Christianity.
-
Originally posted by Beyond Religion:
There is a 5th option.... Quietly accept the Bible and then put it into the paper recycle bin.
I did just that during one Good Friday Holiday. I was in a shopping mall minding my own business when a group of Christians passed me some evangelist materials. They insisted that I accept the materials no matter how hard I refused. In the end, I shut my mouth, accepted these materials and dumped them into a nearby recycle bin.
Christians are happy that I 'accepted' their materials. I am happy coz the Christians left me alone... and Mother Gaia is happy about the recycling.
Problem solved
Seems like you also no hope to be with them in samsara. You are only suitable for the ultimate enlightenment. :)
-
Sometimes i feel if im given a choice to choose religion or philosophy, i would choose philosophy. Afterall, throughout history many religions have been raging war with one another and people have been using the name of religion to do many bad and wicked things.
Buddhism to me is a Philosophy, a guide to our daily lives. It is also an inner science. And if people were to consider it a religion, it is also a peaceful one because there is no records of a real recorded war that buddhism ever fought with others in the name of buddhism.
-
BTW, just curious, what do you think is the reason that youth are attracted to church?
It seems many youngsters are quite committed to church events :) I wonder if Buddhism are doing equally well for youngsters here, though of course it is improving over the years and some effort is done to promote Buddhism to younger people.
But I think, usually those attracted to Buddhist teachings, (of course with a few exceptions as seen in this forum, including myself), are still those who are middle aged and above..
So what do you think is Buddhism lacking in creating the 'passion for Buddhism' in youth? And why have the churches succeeded in attracting youth? (and I don't mean those who just join church events with friends and see see, but those really involved and committed in their activities weekly or even more)
-
my sister say she understand english bible better than chinese jing shu. and no one can explain why must pray .
but I prefer guanyinma and cai shen ye... so throw me to taoist forum . hehehe
When someone ask me to go church I will invite the person to eat together.... then I will pray to my guanyinma before I eat... " thank you guanyinma for letting me have this meal .using my hardearn money to buy the food. " thank you .
does I sent a very clear msg over ?
-
Hehe interesting..
Well first of all you're right that for young people, English is definitely at more advantage than Chinese speaking centers. But myself coming from a Chinese center, I've never seen any words that even those average or below average in Chinese cannot understand. Basically 12 year old also can understand the words spoken in Chinese. We don't use 'chim words'. We also have our youth class, with a few dozen people (http://www.humanbliss.com.sg/knowledge_activity.htm). Of course nothing compared to mega churches. In fact by right I should be attending their youth class, because I'm still 18. But I mostly attend adult class. Actually I just came back from my dharma center, attended a discussion session with my dharma teacher with other teenagers.
Another thing is... more and more, in fact there are already alot of english dharma centers in Singapore... I think this is a good development. Of course it will be best to cater to both english AND chinese audiences, in this way we're not limiting to a particular group of people.
Another thing is, some people may not know, but in Buddhism we have our own 'prayers' before meal like the Christians. But it's not exactly the same, and it's not exactly a prayer, what we do is this... we pause for a few moments before meal, and pay gratitude (感�) to Buddha, Dharma, Sangha, and all sentient beings. I can't remember the exact phrase in Chinese because I seldom say that.
Also... when Christian thank God for their meal, I wonder, why don't they also pay gratitude to the other sentient beings (i.e. lets say your parents if you're still a child, or the people who plant the rice for you, etc etc). In Buddhism we also pay gratitude to all motherly sentient beings.
-
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Hehe interesting..
Well first of all you're right that for young people, English is definitely at more advantage than Chinese speaking centers. But myself coming from a Chinese center, I've never seen any words that even those average or below average in Chinese cannot understand. Basically 12 year old also can understand the words spoken in Chinese. We don't use 'chim words'. We also have our youth class, with a few dozen people (http://www.humanbliss.com.sg/knowledge_activity.htm). Of course nothing compared to mega churches. In fact by right I should be attending their youth class, because I'm still 18. But I mostly attend adult class. Actually I just came back from my dharma center, attended a discussion session with my dharma teacher with other teenagers.
Another thing is... more and more, in fact there are already alot of english dharma centers in Singapore... I think this is a good development. Of course it will be best to cater to both english AND chinese audiences, in this way we're not limiting to a particular group of people.
Another thing is, some people may not know, but in Buddhism we have our own 'prayers' before meal like the Christians. But it's not exactly the same, and it's not exactly a prayer, what we do is this... we pause for a few moments before meal, and pay gratitude (感�) to Buddha, Dharma, Sangha, and all sentient beings. I can't remember the exact phrase in Chinese because I seldom say that.
Also... when Christian thank God for their meal, I wonder, why don't they also pay gratitude to the other sentient beings (i.e. lets say your parents if you're still a child, or the people who plant the rice for you, etc etc). In Buddhism we also pay gratitude to all motherly sentient beings.
only recite when u eat vegetarian
供养佛,供养法,供养僧,供养一切众生.
-
Ah yes thanks! Should be 'gong yang'.
p.s. 'gong yang' = pay homage, right?
-
Just tell them you are a taoist and you have consulted a medium and the medium told you not to go to church.
-
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
BTW, just curious, what do you think is the reason that youth are attracted to church?
It seems many youngsters are quite committed to church events :) I wonder if Buddhism are doing equally well for youngsters here, though of course it is improving over the years and some effort is done to promote Buddhism to younger people.
But I think, usually those attracted to Buddhist teachings, (of course with a few exceptions as seen in this forum, including myself), are still those who are middle aged and above..
So what do you think is Buddhism lacking in creating the 'passion for Buddhism' in youth? And why have the churches succeeded in attracting youth? (and I don't mean those who just join church events with friends and see see, but those really involved and committed in their activities weekly or even more)
Haha i see it as that the world is being westernized and at the same time its part of 'feng shui'. Have you heard of 'feng shui lun liu zhuan" ? Yea something like that. Of course, religion is included in worldly things and it is therefore changable. Every religion has its ups and downs and now i suppose christianity is having its up, but then again nothing last forever. Have you ever wondered how our ancesstors started to join buddhism even though in ancient china there has been already christian missionaries? Yea something like that.
But anyway if you have read some tibetan prophecies which guru padmasambhava have predicted long ago, you find that he says buddhism will decline at this point of age. And when the 'iron bird' and 'iron horse' appears, tibetans would have spreaded over the world. When the red one meets the leader of tibet, buddhism will flourish to the west.
This is something like when 'iron bird' which is planes and 'iron horse' trains appear near tibet, tibetan would have gone to many parts of the world. And the red one means either george bush or a tribal leader whom met dalai lama in the 80s or 90s. Interestingly, buddhism is now spreading in the west. Padmasambhava's prediction interpretation also said that buddhism will spread three lands: America, New Zeland and Australlia in the meantime. But then, this will mean buddhism at this point of time wont flourish in asia anymore, and tibet might even be someday 'christianized' too.
-
When I was your age, I used to think that way. Not anymore.
China is going to have a major Buddhism revival in the near future if things work out. People are looking into Buddhism.
Likewise Buddhism in Singapore can make it, if more is done to promote it.
If you forgotten, Christianity and Buddhism is the only religion that are still gaining converts in Singapore today. But Christianity is doing slightly better. The other religions adherents did not increase or stayed the same. This is from a newspaper article.
Of course, Christianity spreading is unstoppable to certain extent. But doesn't mean Buddhism will 'fall out', it won't.