How to politely decline invitations to church?
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
So how do you define fun?
I thought fun means something amusing. I don't think cancer is fun or amusing.
But if it is joy irregardless and unconditioned by circumstances then that is due to practice and wisdom.
Many people meditate and chant, including me. I can tell you that the deeper you enter into meditation, the more joyful it becomes... sometimes the joy exceeds all ordinary joy you have ever experienced in worldly life -- even sex. Though meditation may appear to some to be the most boring activity on earth. It is joy not derived from sensual stimulation but by mere clarity and absorption. The clearer you become, the more blissful it is.
I can experience this in daily activities as well. Though I do not claim to be able to maintain this even if I am in pain (at least not yet but I think it is possible) but the point is, joy in practice is not dependent on amusement of senses.
Heh, you're missing the point too. But thanks for sharing the experience you had on meditation.
You already said you thought I meant amusement, that's a presumption you're holding. It's your own attachment. =)
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Strange thing that I have observed, how come when I say going church is fun, people seems to have quickly assume it to be the dancing, singing and 'jumping' part?
Heh.
But that's not what I meant in the first place, however, it is quickly assume by many to be.
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Originally posted by yamizi:
Strange thing that I have observed, how come when I say going church is fun, people seems to have quickly assume it to be the dancing, singing and 'jumping' part?
Heh.
But that's not what I meant in the first place, however, it is quickly assume by many to be.
Because thats common nowadays?
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Originally posted by wilsonhao:
Because thats common nowadays?
Sad but true -
Obviously, someone does not know the meaning of "for example"...sheesh...such poor english.
And unlike how the same person thinks, i dun respond just because "i think i am big because i am a priest", but because some person just likes to post all kinds of stupid and sarcastic remarks and think that everyone has to tolerate it. Too bad! This priest here ain't goin to stand for it.
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Hi Maggie meepok,
You are right, i often questions my self :)
By the way, if you don't mind, i want to clarify a few thing with you
Is the only way to go heaven in Christian way is by accepting Jesus? or Can you describe more about this topic, interested to hear about this. Since everytime i met a christian or chatolic they always said if a person never accept Jesus, he/she will go to hell?
Guys, this is just an inter religious knowledge sharing, please don't flame each other k
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Originally posted by Zerg:
Hi Maggie meepok,
You are right, i often questions my self :)
By the way, if you don't mind, i want to clarify a few thing with you
Is the only way to go heaven in Christian way is by accepting Jesus? or Can you describe more about this topic, interested to hear about this. Since everytime i met a christian or chatolic they always said if a person never accept Jesus, he/she will go to hell?
Guys, this is just an inter religious knowledge sharing, please don't flame each other k
Hi Zerg,
if you don't mind me answering from my christian background - Yes, for all if not most christians (including catholics), the only way through salvation is by accepting Jesus as your saviour. It is stated quite explicitly in the Gospel, cannot remember the actual quote off-hand but you'll see the quote very prominently in many churches.
Some roman catholics believe, however, there is a notion of purgatory where those who did not believe in Jesus, or whose faith was not strong enough, or who have sins that must be purified, have to go through. Supposedly if one of his/her relatives/friends did prayers to Mary and the saints to intercede on behalf of the deceased, then it's possible that person can still go to heaven. This notion is not accepted by other christians (orthodox and protestant) though.
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Originally posted by wilsonhao:
Because thats common nowadays?
So it's right for you to assume in that manner while not investigate it thoroughly?
Is that what the Buddha had taught?
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Originally posted by yamizi:
So it's right for you to assume in that manner while not investigate it thoroughly?
Is that what the Buddha had taught?
Dont forget im still a sentient being and not a buddha =)
Pls dont have too high expectations on me because im human and i have faults, even though i learn buddhism
But anyway, you have pointed out something that i know im wrong of. Your pickpointing is appreciated.
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Originally posted by sanath:
Hi Zerg,
if you don't mind me answering from my christian background - Yes, for all if not most christians (including catholics), the only way through salvation is by accepting Jesus as your saviour. It is stated quite explicitly in the Gospel, cannot remember the actual quote off-hand but you'll see the quote very prominently in many churches.
Some roman catholics believe, however, there is a notion of purgatory where those who did not believe in Jesus, or whose faith was not strong enough, or who have sins that must be purified, have to go through. Supposedly if one of his/her relatives/friends did prayers to Mary and the saints to intercede on behalf of the deceased, then it's possible that person can still go to heaven. This notion is not accepted by other christians (orthodox and protestant) though.
Hi Sanath,Thanks for that, i did browse Christian forum, i think that more look like the answer even some of the other stream it is not true.
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Originally posted by Zerg:
Hi Maggie meepok,
You are right, i often questions my self :)
By the way, if you don't mind, i want to clarify a few thing with you
Is the only way to go heaven in Christian way is by accepting Jesus? or Can you describe more about this topic, interested to hear about this. Since everytime i met a christian or chatolic they always said if a person never accept Jesus, he/she will go to hell?
Guys, this is just an inter religious knowledge sharing, please don't flame each other k
Hi Zerg (and also picking up the thread from Sanath),
"Is accepting Jesus the only way to heaven?" - No, not really
What a good question. I felt that this was one of the most important questions I needed to ask myself. Like many Christians, I did not dare ask it for a long time yet this is one key issues that seem to make Christianity seem so exclusive.
My experience and understanding of the bible is "No", I do not believe that to go to what is termed "heaven" you have to "accept" Jesus in the commonly accepted and commonly (mis)understood way.
But if you look at Jesus through a different pair of lens, not as a person/external God like a diety, but for what he represents, then the answer is "yes". In this case, it is not the name of Jesus you accept superficially but it’s your acceptance and practise of his teachings. Jesus embodies what he preaches - love, joy, peace. patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control (these qualities are called "fruits of the spirits" in the bible's book of Galatians).So he IS his teaching and his teaching IS him. You accept his teaching and practise his teaching, you already accepted him even if you know not his name or call not his name.
Even Jesus has said: “Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.” (Matthew 7:21)
So what is Jesus’ teachings?
The Greatest Commandmant
In the bible’s book of Matthew chapter 22, a lawyer asked Jesus what is the greatest commandmant.
Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
This story was also repeated in the bible’s Book of Luke (chapter 10) but in slightly different way. Here a lawyer asked what he can do to inherit eternal life. Jesus asked him back, "what does the scriptures say?"
And the lawyer recited back to Jesus: "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself."
Then Jesus said "You have answered right; do this, and you will live."
Then this lawyer wanted to test Jesus and cheekily asked him: “So who is my neighbor?"
In reply Jesus said: "A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he fell into the hands of robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, took him to an inn and took care of him. The next day he took out two silver coins and gave them to the innkeeper. 'Look after him,' he said, 'and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.'
Jesus then asked the lawyer "Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?"
The lawyer replied, "The one who had mercy on him."
Jesus told him, "Go and do likewise."
Now Zerg, let me explain to you why these passage is so important and so central to your question.
First we look at the story of the compassionate Samaritan. This story is remarkable in its depth by the choice of characters Jesus used. A Priest is a respected religious leader in Jewish society. A Levite also holds a high position in Jewish society as they are assigned to conduct religious rites for the Jewish people. However, Samaritans are of mixed marriages between Jews and non-Jews. The Jews do not consider them pure Jews and treat them as outcasts. They are despised by the Jews as only Jews are considered God’s “chosen people”. However, the Samaritan is the only one who stopped to help the injured man. Jesus considers him as the only one of the three having the TRUE spirit of Christianity.
So to draw a parallel, I see it that in modern day, if you like you can say that Christians are like the Jews, the so-called “chosen” people of God. And non-Christians or half-Christians (like me haha) are like the Samaritans. If you give love to your neighbour as you do yourself, even if you are a Samaritan or a non-Christian, you too have exercised the true spirit of Christ and as such – is ACCEPTABLE to Jesus.
Now, let us go back to what Jesus’ said is the most important commandment. He said that the most important thing is to love God. And the second thing, which “like it”, that is, just as important to the first law, is to love your neighbour just as much as you love yourself. And then Jesus went on to say - all the other commandments of the prophets rest upon these 2 laws. These 2 laws form the foundation of every other law.
So this means that to have eternal life, you must accept and practise these 2 foundational laws.
In the Book of John, Jesus was quoted as saying: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. (John 14:6). Apostle John also said:”For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.“ (John 3:16).
However, base on my explanation in the preceding paragraphs you can tell that one cannot take a literal and simplistic reading of just calling Jesus “name” and going through him in this way, or even converting and becoming a Christian and going to church. You go through him by practising his teachings. Would you accept and practise a teaching if you yourself do not believe in it? So, if you know not Jesus’ but practise love and kindness, so too you would have accepted and believed in him indirectly because love is what he represents. We believe in our teachers, as such we practise their teachings.
And finally, what is God? I know Buddhists do not believe in a creator, personal god like the Christians too. But this understanding of God as a person, a creator, someone external to you (aka a theistic view) is not a view held by all Christians. Liberal Christians are moving away from the traditional belief in a theistic god. They believe that God is a divinity that is inside you (maybe what you call the buddhi nature? Yogis call this purusha or true nature) expressed when you practise love, compassion, gratitude, kindess. self-control. It is the intuition in you to call you to expand yourself, to love and to be inclusive of others, not contract yourself when you hate, fear and practise exclusions.
In Luke 17:20-21, when asked when the kingdom of God will come, Jesus’ answer was, “The Kingdom of God does not come in such a way as to be seen. No one will say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or, ‘There it is!’ because the Kingdom of God is within you.”
So, it seems to me that Jesus says that:
1)heaven (the kingdom of God) is not a place in the sky, but a state of being inside you
2)God, who resides in this kingdlom, is thus in you, it's the divine nature in you
3) Jesus is someone who reflected all the divine nature and as such when you see him you see goodness and love. You see divinity, you see eternity, you see God
4) Even if you know not Jesus' name but have sincerely exercise love, joy, patience, kindness, gooness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control - my understanding of the bible is that one is not rejected but have touched something DIVINE.
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Hi Maggie,
Nice explanation, so can i conclude from your understanding, in Christian, to go heaven there is no a must to be a Christian, non-Christian can go heaven by exercising kindness, love, joy etc (whatever related to good deed) ?
The reason i ask this because i ask few of my Christian friends, they go Church a lot, but their understanding is Only by become Christian and Accepting Jesus then you can go to heaven. I even find in some forum, the forumer dare to said, beside Christian God, all other religion is devil, which only make me shake head when i reading the topic.
or maybe like you said you 1/2 Christian
Your explanation about kingdom of God have some similliarity with my mind thinking that peace, joy, happiness is come from within our self (If i get your point right)
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double post.. mouse error T_T
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Originally posted by Zerg:
Hi Maggie,
Nice explanation, so can i conclude from your understanding, in Christian, to go heaven there is no a must to be a Christian, non-Christian can go heaven by exercising kindness, love, joy etc (whatever related to good deed) ?
The reason i ask this because i ask few of my Christian friends, they go Church a lot, but their understanding is Only by become Christian and Accepting Jesus then you can go to heaven. I even find in some forum, the forumer dare to said, beside Christian God, all other religion is devil, which only make me shake head when i reading the topic.
or maybe like you said you 1/2 Christian
Your explanation about kingdom of God have some similliarity with my mind thinking that peace, joy, happiness is come from within our self (If i get your point right)
Hi Zerg,
Yes, that is what I mean. But certainly, even that is not simple path to take. How often we have been angry, said unkind things, been rude to our parents, been selfish? Often right? Jesus' way is also not a simple way.
I also shake may head when some Christians say other religions are from the devil and therefore evil. (shake-shake, roll my eyes
)There are so many holy and spiritual Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus, and also evil Christians (Hitler also Christian - during WWII he ordered mass execution of 6 million Jews because he believed they denied Jesus and deserved it. Maybe he forgot Jesus also Jew).
Then Christians will tell you no these are not REAL Christians. What is real Christian anyway? Maybe the devils' people from other religion are not REAL Buddhists, not REAL Hindus - so maybe they are not REAL evil? No need to say more lah. Use common sense can already.
I say maybe I am 1/2 Christian because average Christian will ask "What kind of Christian are you, man?" because my thinking is not very average. Yet, I still consider myself Christian because I am not Buddhist, not Hindu mah. My tradition is Christian mah. I believe in Jesus' teaching mah. Inside I think I am Christian, outside people see not like Christian. So maybe I just 1/2 Christian - not a REAL Christian. LOL.
No lah, these are labels. If you ask me, am I good Christian? I will tell you "no". Because although I am not average Christian, I am just average human.
Confuse already mah? Haha!
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Originally posted by Maggie.meepok:
Hi Zerg,
Yes, that is what I mean. But certainly, even that is not simple path to take. How often we have been angry, said unkind things, been rude to our parents, been selfish? Often right? Jesus' way is also not a simple way.
I also shake may head when some Christians say other religions are from the devil and therefore evil. (shake-shake, roll my eyes
)There are so many holy and spiritual Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus, and also evil Christians (Hitler also Christian - during WWII he ordered mass execution of 6 million Jews because he believed they denied Jesus and deserved it. Maybe he forgot Jesus also Jew).
Then Christians will tell you no these are not REAL Christians. What is real Christian anyway? Maybe the evil people from other religion are not REAL Buddhists, not REAL Hindus - so maybe they are not REAL evil? No need to say more lah. Use common sense can already.
I say maybe I am 1/2 Christian because average Christian will ask "What kind of Christian are you, man?" because my thinking is not very average. Yet, I still consider myself Christian because I am not Buddhist, not Hindu mah. My tradition is Christian mah. I believe in Jesus' teaching mah. Inside I think I am Christian, outside people see not like Christian. So maybe I just 1/2 Christian - not a REAL Christian. LOL.
No lah, these are labels. If you ask me, am I good Christian? I will tell you "no". Because although I am not average Christian, I am just average human.
Confuse already mah? Haha!
Yah agree... Label only. I once had a PM conversation in another forum with a Christian from the US. Like you, he is very open minded, tolerant and liberal. It is interesting to note that he prefers to call himself a "follower of Christ". To him, a "Christian" conjures up images of ultra-fundamental and offensively evangelical Christians in his country.
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Originally posted by Beyond Religion:
Yah agree... Label only. I once had a PM conversation in another forum with a Christian from the US. Like you, he is very open minded, tolerant and liberal. It is interesting to note that he prefers to call himself a "follower of Christ". To him, a "Christian" conjures up images of ultra-fundamental and offensively evangelical Christians in his country.
Thank you for sharing. I am glad you have met other types of Christians. Now you know one 1/2 Christian and another Christian-who-is-not-called-a-Christian. Yet we are still one happy family. LOL.
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Originally posted by Maggie.meepok:
Hi Zerg (and also picking up the thread from Sanath),
"Is accepting Jesus the only way to heaven?" - No, not really
What a good question. I felt that this was one of the most important questions I needed to ask myself. Like many Christians, I did not dare ask it for a long time yet this is one key issues that seem to make Christianity seem so exclusive.
My experience and understanding of the bible is "No", I do not believe that to go to what is termed "heaven" you have to "accept" Jesus in the commonly accepted and commonly (mis)understood way.
But if you look at Jesus through a different pair of lens, not as a person/external God like a diety, but for what he represents, then the answer is "yes". In this case, it is not the name of Jesus you accept superficially but it’s your acceptance and practise of his teachings. Jesus embodies what he preaches - love, joy, peace. patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control (these qualities are called "fruits of the spirits" in the bible's book of Galatians).So he IS his teaching and his teaching IS him. You accept his teaching and practise his teaching, you already accepted him even if you know not his name or call not his name.
Even Jesus has said: “Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.” (Matthew 7:21)
So what is Jesus’ teachings?
The Greatest Commandmant
In the bible’s book of Matthew chapter 22, a lawyer asked Jesus what is the greatest commandmant.
Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
This story was also repeated in the bible’s Book of Luke (chapter 10) but in slightly different way. Here a lawyer asked what he can do to inherit eternal life. Jesus asked him back, "what does the scriptures say?"
And the lawyer recited back to Jesus: "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself."
Then Jesus said "You have answered right; do this, and you will live."
Then this lawyer wanted to test Jesus and cheekily asked him: “So who is my neighbor?"
In reply Jesus said: "A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he fell into the hands of robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, took him to an inn and took care of him. The next day he took out two silver coins and gave them to the innkeeper. 'Look after him,' he said, 'and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.'
Jesus then asked the lawyer "Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?"
The lawyer replied, "The one who had mercy on him."
Jesus told him, "Go and do likewise."
Now Zerg, let me explain to you why these passage is so important and so central to your question.
First we look at the story of the compassionate Samaritan. This story is remarkable in its depth by the choice of characters Jesus used. A Priest is a respected religious leader in Jewish society. A Levite also holds a high position in Jewish society as they are assigned to conduct religious rites for the Jewish people. However, Samaritans are of mixed marriages between Jews and non-Jews. The Jews do not consider them pure Jews and treat them as outcasts. They are despised by the Jews as only Jews are considered God’s “chosen people”. However, the Samaritan is the only one who stopped to help the injured man. Jesus considers him as the only one of the three having the TRUE spirit of Christianity.
So to draw a parallel, I see it that in modern day, if you like you can say that Christians are like the Jews, the so-called “chosen” people of God. And non-Christians or half-Christians (like me haha) are like the Samaritans. If you give love to your neighbour as you do yourself, even if you are a Samaritan or a non-Christian, you too have exercised the true spirit of Christ and as such – is ACCEPTABLE to Jesus.
Now, let us go back to what Jesus’ said is the most important commandment. He said that the most important thing is to love God. And the second thing, which “like it”, that is, just as important to the first law, is to love your neighbour just as much as you love yourself. And then Jesus went on to say - all the other commandments of the prophets rest upon these 2 laws. These 2 laws form the foundation of every other law.
So this means that to have eternal life, you must accept and practise these 2 foundational laws.
In the Book of John, Jesus was quoted as saying: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. (John 14:6). Apostle John also said:”For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.“ (John 3:16).
However, base on my explanation in the preceding paragraphs you can tell that one cannot take a literal and simplistic reading of just calling Jesus “name” and going through him in this way, or even converting and becoming a Christian and going to church. You go through him by practising his teachings. Would you accept and practise a teaching if you yourself do not believe in it? So, if you know not Jesus’ but practise love and kindness, so too you would have accepted and believed in him indirectly because love is what he represents. We believe in our teachers, as such we practise their teachings.
And finally, what is God? I know Buddhists do not believe in a creator, personal god like the Christians too. But this understanding of God as a person, a creator, someone external to you (aka a theistic view) is not a view held by all Christians. Liberal Christians are moving away from the traditional belief in a theistic god. They believe that God is a divinity that is inside you (maybe what you call the buddhi nature? Yogis call this purusha or true nature) expressed when you practise love, compassion, gratitude, kindess. self-control. It is the intuition in you to call you to expand yourself, to love and to be inclusive of others, not contract yourself when you hate, fear and practise exclusions.
In Luke 17:20-21, when asked when the kingdom of God will come, Jesus’ answer was, “The Kingdom of God does not come in such a way as to be seen. No one will say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or, ‘There it is!’ because the Kingdom of God is within you.”
So, it seems to me that Jesus says that:
1)heaven (the kingdom of God) is not a place in the sky, but a state of being inside you
2)God, who resides in this kingdlom, is thus in you, it's the divine nature in you
3) Jesus is someone who reflected all the divine nature and as such when you see him you see goodness and love. You see divinity, you see eternity, you see God
4) Even if you know not Jesus' name but have sincerely exercise love, joy, patience, kindness, gooness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control - my understanding of the bible is that one is not rejected but have touched something DIVINE.
Well written! Just to add: The path of Christianity and the path of Buddhism is different, the emphasis for such paths is on submission and surrender to the divine. It is to allow divine happening, for Christians they just say receive grace. "Not my will but thy will be done." thus achieving the purpose of 'letting go' of the 'self'. Theirs is by faith while Buddhism is by wisdom. The path is different. That is why for them the emphasis is in loving God and submitting to God. But in Buddhism, we teach that we can gain insight into the nature of reality through practicing insight-meditation.
In fact the real goal is to achieve union with Christ. It is to dissolve the self so that there can be a new birth, a birth in spirit (being born again), in Christ. When Jesus said Very truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit.", it is referring to this.
I posted some good resources on this. See http://sgforums.com/forums/1728/topics/271224 -- can also read the article 'Living the Christ Life' which is written by a Christian in the EH forum, it explains this very well.
As Paul said from his experience: I no longer live, but Christ lives in me! (Gal. 2.20)
When one lives a 'Christ Life', no longer as the 'small self' but its Christ that lives in him, naturally good works, and all the good qualities of Christ becomes manifest. But it is not through good works (done through the 'ego' or the old sinful self) that one attains salvation, even 'ungodly men' can also perform good works... the difference is that the good works manifest through the new birth in Spirit -- "the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control." Galatians 5:22, 23
All efforts by the 'self' to find its way to salvation is doomed, because the self is sinful by nature (and the word sin originally means to miss the mark, miss the target) -- the self has to dissolve totally, and let Christ.
This, is the path of monotheistic religions and contemplative paths. In Buddhism, our path is through Insight/Wisdom and Awareness.
Sunyata by A.H.Almaas, a Islamic Sufi Contemplative and also a Buddhist practitioner:If love leads the devotee to the point of the extinction of personality in the fire of truth, awareness can lead him to the point of seeing that ego does not really exist, and hence achieve the same goal of selflessness. Love melts the lover into the ocean of truth, there remain no traces of an “I”. Awareness, on the other hand, cuts through the illusion of a separate identity. It exposes the lie of ego: that it exists as a reality. Love melts ego away, while awareness is like turning on the light and seeing that there is nobody there. The outcome is the same in both cases, but the flavor of the path is different. One is more emotional, the other more insightful. The vocabularies of the two paths differ as a result. The path of love seeks union with the Beloved, while the path of awareness seeks the seeing of naked Reality. Just as prayer is the central practice in the path of love, meditation is the central practice in the path of awareness... (continued in the URL)
But also I should note that there is a path beyond transforming union or mystical marriage, which as Christian contemplative Bernadette Roberts says is not found in the Christian contemplative literature for various reasons, where transforming union is described as the final state which is achievable. But union is not the final stage, though there is some insight and transcendental experience of the divine.
More specifically, insight into No-Self (not as a stage of dissolving ego but as the nature of reality as no separate agent apart from manifestation) and Emptiness is still not present. That requires further unfolding of insights. Even Bernadette Roberts has not fully understood the depths and hasn't understood Emptiness/Dependent-Origination... but she is closer, and that is why after years of searching for similar accounts of her experience, she found her experience described by Buddha. An article that is a little related to Bernadette Robert's experiences is Thusness's Six Stages of Experience: http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2007/03/thusnesss-six-stages-of-experience.html. Bernadette Roberts has gone through almost all the stages (I have one of her book and she described her journey), but I still don't think the insight into 'Stage 6' is there, and so still isn't the full understanding of Anatta or Shunyata in Buddhism.
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Originally posted by Maggie.meepok:
Hi Zerg,
Yes, that is what I mean. But certainly, even that is not simple path to take. How often we have been angry, said unkind things, been rude to our parents, been selfish? Often right? Jesus' way is also not a simple way.
I also shake may head when some Christians say other religions are from the devil and therefore evil. (shake-shake, roll my eyes
)There are so many holy and spiritual Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus, and also evil Christians (Hitler also Christian - during WWII he ordered mass execution of 6 million Jews because he believed they denied Jesus and deserved it. Maybe he forgot Jesus also Jew).
Then Christians will tell you no these are not REAL Christians. What is real Christian anyway? Maybe the devils' people from other religion are not REAL Buddhists, not REAL Hindus - so maybe they are not REAL evil? No need to say more lah. Use common sense can already.
I say maybe I am 1/2 Christian because average Christian will ask "What kind of Christian are you, man?" because my thinking is not very average. Yet, I still consider myself Christian because I am not Buddhist, not Hindu mah. My tradition is Christian mah. I believe in Jesus' teaching mah. Inside I think I am Christian, outside people see not like Christian. So maybe I just 1/2 Christian - not a REAL Christian. LOL.
No lah, these are labels. If you ask me, am I good Christian? I will tell you "no". Because although I am not average Christian, I am just average human.
Confuse already mah? Haha!
i remember a movie i saw , said,''is what you do defines you " no matter what religion u believe as long as you do good in your life , it's fine
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Maggie's thoughts on Christianity would make him/her an "outcaste" in most churches in Singapore!
You're quite a "liberal", which is rare for most christians here in Singapore, if you all may remember the Straits Times findings published recently. There could/should be some others like you but they're probably a very silent minority, for the most, including the pastors and preachers, are quite heavy-toned on other religions, only that they can't say it out too publicly at the pulpit here.
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christianity always treat his alliance good, his enemy bad, look crusader, religion war happens throughout the history, but buddhism stay out of war, if every religion posses buddhism Nondual view, every conflict will be solved,
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Originally posted by sanath:
Maggie's thoughts on Christianity would make him/her an "outcaste" in most churches in Singapore!
You're quite a "liberal", which is rare for most christians here in Singapore, if you all may remember the Straits Times findings published recently. There could/should be some others like you but they're probably a very silent minority, for the most, including the pastors and preachers, are quite heavy-toned on other religions, only that they can't say it out too publicly at the pulpit here.
Jesus was an outcast too. His teachings were rejected by the religious establishment of his day - the religious leaders hated him and successfully plotted to put him to death. I guess I should try to get used to being one too.
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i'm happy for Maggie.meepok.
t'is why my old Master Chin Kung, often defend the real meaning of christianity, saying, 神爱世人. God loves (all) people. it never say God loves all believers only 神爱信�. but many mainstream buddhists like to slander Him for not teaching the proper Buddhism.
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Originally posted by sinweiy:
i'm happy for Maggie.meepok.
t'is why my old Master Chin Kung, often defend the real meaning of christianity, saying, 神爱世人. God loves (all) people. it never say God loves all believers only 神爱信�. but many mainstream buddhists like to slander Him for not teaching the proper Buddhism.
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the original meaning of christianity is good, but when it come to real life, many christian distort it, they say other religion is evil. I happen to join a christian meeting, some of the word in the meeting is bullshit, they say once they visit a grandma, she is blind, once he touch her head with his"powerful " hand, she can see again, i don't know how many of this bullshit in christianity, or christian also believe in expedient way of teaching? -
Originally posted by sinweiy:
i'm happy for Maggie.meepok.
t'is why my old Master Chin Kung, often defend the real meaning of christianity, saying, 神爱世人. God loves (all) people. it never say God loves all believers only 神爱信�. but many mainstream buddhists like to slander Him for not teaching the proper Buddhism.
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Unfortunately, hasn't that quote been taken out of context in this sense?
神愛世人, 甚至將他的ç�¨ç”Ÿå�賜給他們, å�«ä¸€åˆ‡ä¿¡ä»–çš„, ä¸�至滅亡, å��得永生。 〔約3:16〕
So, those who do not believe in God, would they not 滅亡��得永生?
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'cos it's a fact that he is not teaching proper Buddhism.
The concept of almighty, all-knowing, all-loving, creator God does not exist in rationale and logical buddhistic thinking.
If your mck can tell people muslims and christians heavens are part of Amitabha's pureland, there is much room for people to exercise their discretion whether or not to believe.
Slander only applies when people deliberately twisted his words. The thing about mck is that, all of those stuff can be found in his own vcd. If you're going to say that we have to finish watching the whole series or what have you, please feedback to mck, to upgrade his presentation skills. I mean if the 'mainstream' buddhists are to slander him (according to you), then I believe mck has serious presentation problem that he may need to review.