How to politely decline invitations to church?
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miracles ? hmmm....
walk on water ? to exorcise spirits ? raise the dead ? perform the so-called supernormal practices 'miracles of prophesy' such as thought-reading, soothe-saying, fortune-telling ???
To Buddha & us (the buddhists) all such things have very minor importance and irrelevant to the real task of spiritual development and emancipation. Buddha teaches us that the greatest miracle was to explain the Truth and make a man realise it , a teacher with deep compassion, he was moved by human suffering and determined to free men from its fetters by a rational system of thought and way of life.
When we study Buddhism, we are studying ourselves, the nature of our own minds. Instead of focusing on some supreme being, Buddhism emphasizes more practical matters, such as how to lead our lives, how to integrate our minds and how to keep our everyday lives peaceful and healthy. In other words, Buddhism always accentuates experiential knowledge-wisdom rather than some dogmatic view. -
U can tell them tat u know abt christianity & have great respect for jesus and one of the reason u decide to become a buddhist is becos jesus was such a great buddhistOriginally posted by Spnw07:I don't know where to ask this. Initially aunt agony column looks ok, but I want a Buddhist view and advice on the above concern, so...
Like I have mentioned in my first post in sgforums, my social circle comprises mainly of Christian friends. Not all invite me to church, but those that do, I want to decline them politely and for good.
And well, now the difficult part is, one of my relatives is a Christian (he's my cousin). He constantly asks me to go to church when I asks him questions regarding Christianity. I would have gone if not for the fact which he has mentioned before; his church are like most churches, very attentive to new faces and non-believers. Ie: They are very assertive and enthusiastic in introducing the Good News to non-believers.
I have already replied him many times that I'm now a Buddhist and intend to follow on with my faith. I also emphasised that one of my main purposes for learning about Christianity is to be able to make a difference some day in cultivating and strengthening inter-religious understanding, encourage more active participation and interaction among all followers of different religions in Singapore and eventually the rest of the world.
I really don't need the unnecessary attention and/or allow myself to face the almost unavoidable situation of having to explain in detail to Christians about why I don't want to become a Christian and why my current faith, Buddhism is not a false or wrong religion.
Please give me clear examples and important main points to say when declining such well-intentioned invitations.
I know that Christianity somehow seems to be natural and/or a favourite choice among many Singaporeans, of different educational backgrounds, professions and age groups. But more importantly, teenagers and working adults, especially those that speak mainly or only English at home. This means I can expect almost without a doubt, to be extended such invitations to church by strangers, acquaintances, friends and relatives for as long as I live.
The need to know how to politely refuse invitations of such nature in various ways, for different situations, has been for a long time, a high priority in my character, spiritual and religious cultivation.
Thank you for reading this long post.
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Yes...Originally posted by neutral_onliner:miracles ? hmmm....
walk on water ? to exorcise spirits ? raise the dead ? perform the so-called supernormal practices 'miracles of prophesy' such as thought-reading, soothe-saying, fortune-telling ???
To Buddha & us (the buddhists) all such things have very minor importance and irrelevant to the real task of spiritual development and emancipation. Buddha teaches us that the greatest miracle was to explain the Truth and make a man realise it , a teacher with deep compassion, he was moved by human suffering and determined to free men from its fetters by a rational system of thought and way of life.
When we study Buddhism, we are studying ourselves, the nature of our own minds. Instead of focusing on some supreme being, Buddhism emphasizes more practical matters, such as how to lead our lives, how to integrate our minds and how to keep our everyday lives peaceful and healthy. In other words, Buddhism always accentuates experiential knowledge-wisdom rather than some dogmatic view.
We've all heard of miracles. All religions have miracles otherwise they wouldn't be called religions. There is no lack of miracles in Buddhism either (even though Buddhism isn't really a religion), I hear them often. But in Buddhism these things are not stressed, wisdom is stressed instead. -
sidetrack the topic at hand.
Do you love with your heart or head or wisdom ?
For some, heart
For some, head
And for some, wisdom. -
Just say u dun want to go.
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just tell whoever that's preaching to you to shhhs.Originally posted by Spnw07:I don't know where to ask this. Initially aunt agony column looks ok, but I want a Buddhist view and advice on the above concern, so...
Like I have mentioned in my first post in sgforums, my social circle comprises mainly of Christian friends. Not all invite me to church, but those that do, I want to decline them politely and for good.
And well, now the difficult part is, one of my relatives is a Christian (he's my cousin). He constantly asks me to go to church when I asks him questions regarding Christianity. I would have gone if not for the fact which he has mentioned before; his church are like most churches, very attentive to new faces and non-believers. Ie: They are very assertive and enthusiastic in introducing the Good News to non-believers.
I have already replied him many times that I'm now a Buddhist and intend to follow on with my faith. I also emphasised that one of my main purposes for learning about Christianity is to be able to make a difference some day in cultivating and strengthening inter-religious understanding, encourage more active participation and interaction among all followers of different religions in Singapore and eventually the rest of the world.
I really don't need the unnecessary attention and/or allow myself to face the almost unavoidable situation of having to explain in detail to Christians about why I don't want to become a Christian and why my current faith, Buddhism is not a false or wrong religion.
Please give me clear examples and important main points to say when declining such well-intentioned invitations.
I know that Christianity somehow seems to be natural and/or a favourite choice among many Singaporeans, of different educational backgrounds, professions and age groups. But more importantly, teenagers and working adults, especially those that speak mainly or only English at home. This means I can expect almost without a doubt, to be extended such invitations to church by strangers, acquaintances, friends and relatives for as long as I live.
The need to know how to politely refuse invitations of such nature in various ways, for different situations, has been for a long time, a high priority in my character, spiritual and religious cultivation.
Thank you for reading this long post.
if they're your true friends they'll let you live your life.
know church peeps dont reallyt know the real reason why they're heading out to get more attendance for the church. they're just blinded to do what's "right".. share their faith bla bla.
this is esp true for lots of christian churches. catholic churches are much much better (: -
Fully agree.Originally posted by neutral_onliner:miracles ? hmmm....
walk on water ? to exorcise spirits ? raise the dead ? perform the so-called supernormal practices 'miracles of prophesy' such as thought-reading, soothe-saying, fortune-telling ???
To Buddha & us (the buddhists) all such things have very minor importance and irrelevant to the real task of spiritual development and emancipation. Buddha teaches us that the greatest miracle was to explain the Truth and make a man realise it , a teacher with deep compassion, he was moved by human suffering and determined to free men from its fetters by a rational system of thought and way of life.
When we study Buddhism, we are studying ourselves, the nature of our own minds. Instead of focusing on some supreme being, Buddhism emphasizes more practical matters, such as how to lead our lives, how to integrate our minds and how to keep our everyday lives peaceful and healthy. In other words, Buddhism always accentuates experiential knowledge-wisdom rather than some dogmatic view.
All these so called miracles are nothing more than theatrics to impress the simple minded. So, what if I can turn water into wine, levitate etc. etc. All these does not amount to a hoot if I am unable to deliver all beings from sufferings. Only the dharma can do that. -
You are saying as though the Christians are not true when considered as friends....Originally posted by TheGoodEarth:You should make your posting in the Eternal Hope sub-forum. I can place a bet with you they don't know how to answer you because the Bible or the Church never teach them so. One of the thing you must remember is that: Christians are 'commanded' to 'save' this world. By that it means everyone they know and can be persuade either subtlely or by deceit to go to church or accept the Christian God. It is in the Bible because that is the authority they quote.
My grandmother who was for all her life an ancestor worshipper was taken to church by a relative on the pretext of bringing her out for 'jalan-jalan'. And when she became bed-ridden when she fell, they brought a pastor to her home to baptise her!
Just like you, I too had been asked, and my answer to them: I was a Christian, and I probably know more than you, and I have very good reason to be a free-thinker. If you think and think even more and deeply, you will also one day arrive at the same conclusion as me! From that day onward, they stopped asking me and also stopped treating me as friend. So, you know what Christians are! They have a motive.
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i would say, "allah, today not free lah.
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Just tell your christian friends that all religions preach goodwill and we have the same god, but in a different perspective. To say that a particular religion is the end all....... and the the others are heretics.......is like saying a particular religion is arrogant and do not respect the universal belief that there is one and the same god, with different interpretations and perspective as regards to different race and the region and time the religion was born.
If your christian friends still persists......which I noe most christian sects do...they always think theirs is the ultimate one and the other religions should be trampled upon........than tell them.......if they still cherish your friendship....they should respect your decision to be a Buddist.....
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Your so-called counter are simply copy and paste from other sources.
Hmm... this is the first time I'm going to counter Christian claims directly (other than the one on creationism) for.. I dunno how long
At least on the public forum.
Excerpts taken from http://www.budsas.org/ebud/beyond/beyond02.htm, http://www.budsas.org/ebud/beyond/beyond01.htm (Beyond Belief)
[b]Miracles
Christians claim that miracles are sometimes performed in God's name and that the fact that this happens proves that God exists. This is an appealing argument until it is looked at a little more closely.
While Christians are quick to claim that because of their prayers the blind could see, the deaf could hear and crooked limbs were straightened, they are very slow in producing evidence to back up their claims. In fact, some Christians are so anxious to prove that miracles have occurred at their prayer meetings that the truth often gets lost in a flood of wild claims, extravagant boasts, and sometimes even conscious lies.
It is true that things which are unusual and difficult to explain do sometimes happen during religious events - but not just for Christians. Hindus, Muslims, Taoists, etc. all claim that their God or gods sometimes perform miracles. Christianity certainly does not have a monopoly on miracles. So, if miracles performed in God's name prove the existence of the Christian God, then miracles performed in the name of numerous other gods must likewise prove that they too exist.
Christians may try to overcome this fact by claiming that, when miracles occur in other religions, they are done through the power of the Devil. Perhaps the best way to counter this claim is to quote the Bible. When Jesus healed the sick, his enemies accused him of doing this through the power of the Devil. He answered that healing the sick results in good and if the Devil went around doing good he would destroy himself (Mk 3:22-26). Therefore the same could be said for the miracles performed by Hindus, Jews or Sikhs. If these miracles result in good, how can they be the work of the Devil?[/b]
Lack of innovation, creativity and actual experience.
From the previous time I have known, you had not been to church, if you still have not attend any church, I will advise you to go down and take a look.
I don't mind to take time off to accompany you if you are afraid that your faith will be shaken.
Don't be like jenchen which is quite out-of-fashion. Where you'd cited on Ming Jian Xing Yang as Gui Shen and lack of understanding of what is the actual thing that is happening on the ground. I just had a conversation with Ven Jue Wu some time last week on the articles from jenchen that you'd been posting from. You can asked the learned Ven for her advice.
Stop spitting what you had chewed off the book.
Get dirty by going on the ground to see, hear and experience yourself, before claiming Jesus to be bodhisattva or taoist/MJXY as Gui Shen. -
Yes I don't have much experience... but until then, no harm copying and pasting what was already written I think Beyond Belief quite gd for countering some of the claims.
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No. Not in my parents's case ,that is. I don't think there is such a fix rule on marriages between christain n non-believer, but of cos usually one wld tends to follow one's spouse sooner or later. Especially, fr my observations, if the wife is a christain then most probably the hubby will convert to christainity later on.Originally posted by student 17:Isn't marriages between christians and non-christians frowned upon esp since the paternal side consists of so many stuanch christians? Is there such a rule that christians are not supposed to marry non-christians and if they do, the non-christian spouse must convert to christianity? Maybe out of love for the wife n chrildren as well , cos usually the wife will baptise the kids too.
And many christains may believe that they can succeed in converting their non-christain spoues, so it's not uncommon to see such marriages nowadays too. I hv a relative whose hubby only becomes a christain recently after a marriage of 20 yrs.
For my case, i think my late ah gong was a wise and fair person as he was the one who stop the rest fr baptising me as a child then. He thought that it wld be better for me to choose what i want when I grow up. Steady.
And another factor may be due to my paternal family members r the so-called "mild Christains" which belongs to the old-guard. We r the " lao hokkien christains"- christainity has become like a family tradition n not so aggressive as some of todays young where most r converted to christainity out of fun, peer pressure, vanity, BG relationship,etc.
Oh, one more thing, if u choose to marry into a christain family, then of cos there r pressure to convert as u cannot escape fr ur new family members forever; but I guess when one decided to marry a christain, more or less he/she is not repulsive towards the religion liao. So, free choice. Don't blame anyone. -
So that is not what you have counter, you just simply reproduce from another source.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Yes I don't have much experience... but until then, no harm copying and pasting what was already written I think Beyond Belief quite gd for countering some of the claims.
What you have counter would be what you have understand from these readings and having written down your sentiments, not copy and paste.
Don't take people's credit as your own. -
Interesting case to share. =)Originally posted by cycle:No. Not in my parents's case ,that is. I don't think there is such a fix rule on marriages between christain n non-believer, but of cos usually one wld tends to follow one's spouse sooner or later. Especially, fr my observations, if the wife is a christain then most probably the hubby will convert to christainity later on. Maybe out of love for the wife n chrildren as well , cos usually the wife will baptise the kids too.
And many christains may believe that they can succeed in converting their non-christain spoues, so it's not uncommon to see such marriages nowadays too. I hv a relative whose hubby only becomes a christain recently after a marriage of 20 yrs.
For my case, i think my late ah gong was a wise and fair person as he was the one who stop the rest fr baptising me as a child then. He thought that it wld be better for me to choose what i want when I grow up. Steady.
And another factor may be due to my paternal family members r the so-called "mild Christains" which belongs to the old-guard. We r the " lao hokkien christains"- christainity has become like a family tradition n not so aggressive as some of todays young where most r converted to christainity out of fun, peer pressure, vanity, BG relationship,etc.
Oh, one more thing, if u choose to marry into a christain family, then of cos there r pressure to convert as u cannot escape fr ur new family members forever; but I guess when one decided to marry a christain, more or less he/she is not repulsive towards the religion liao. So, free choice. Don't blame anyone.
Anyway I also have observed that people who are born to that religion are not as zealous as those who are converted.
My paternal male cousin wasn't that lucky. He got ROM many years back. He's a buddhist (not sure is it josssticks or with understanding, cos never had a good chat with him on religion before) and he's then gf is a christian. So after ROM when they are about to do their custom marriage, she insisted that he convert or she will anull the marriage, so he converted. My grandma was very sad as he is the eldest grandson (for those who really know chinese custom would know zhang sun di zi). And they are very (I don't know is strict the correct word) strict christian, they don't eat the fruits that my grandma used to offer on the shrine at her house or those that offer during my grandpa's death anniversary.
Back then I was very young and it did give me negative impression on christianity. But like what cycle had said, I think there is no hard and fast rule that a conversion is a must for a non-christian to marry a christian. Probably it later becomes a man-made rule that got passed down for so long that it becomes a tradition.
Religions have been existing for so long that whether the rules are laid by the scriptures or made by men, these are often confused. -
Originally posted by yamizi:
What you described is emotional blackmail. Pure and simple... It is really a very despicable act.
[b]
My paternal male cousin wasn't that lucky. He got ROM many years back. He's a buddhist (not sure is it josssticks or with understanding, cos never had a good chat with him on religion before) and he's then gf is a christian. So after ROM when they are about to do their custom marriage, she insisted that he convert or she will anull the marriage, so he converted. My grandma was very sad as he is the eldest grandson (for those who really know chinese custom would know zhang sun di zi). And they are very (I don't know is strict the correct word) strict christian, they don't eat the fruits that my grandma used to offer on the shrine at her house or those that offer during my grandpa's death anniversary.
[b] -
I dun tink he's taking credit for other pple's work.Originally posted by yamizi:So that is not what you have counter, you just simply reproduce from another source.
What you have counter would be what you have understand from these readings and having written down your sentiments, not copy and paste.
Don't take people's credit as your own.
Rather, i appreciate his gesture of providing the forumers views from other sources.
I tink he's juz letting us have a read first-hand on these readings, so there's no need for him to understand and rephrase in his own words, and there's no harm done.
Cheers =) -
Originally posted by aloka:
Hey, thanks for the links. I find them to be quite useful in learning more about Buddhism and learning how to handle erms, people from other religions.
Hi,
Just to share with you some good links that you can read up:
[b]Good Question, Good Answer
http://www.budsas.org/ebud/goodqa/goodqa-00.htm
Beyond Belief
http://www.budsas.org/ebud/beyond/beyond01.htm
What Not To Look For In A Relgion
http://www.moonpointer.com/essays/WhatNotToLookForInAReligion.pdf[/b] -
Wo, that's true. I have been reading up on religions in Singapore and indeed most religions are the same in terms of teaching all of us the right human values and behaviour.Originally posted by funnyboii:not a muslim anyway just that i read many book n got one time to boring go borrow bible n quran "english version" n found it alike in so way so pointed that point to friend -
I'm afraid it's not that simple. I don't want to get into any debates with people who already firmly believe in the idea of a Creator God. It will just be a fruitless debate, now matter how much I know about Buddhism or practise Buddhist teachings.Originally posted by leddy:u want to encourage inter religion cohesion, then u should go to church, walk the talk, dont just talk the talk.
Inter-religion cohesion is more of trying to organise more activities whereby people from different religions can participate in and share ideas and knowledge about learning to be a good practitioner of universal love and inner wisdom. That is my personal opinion.
I don't want to be confrontational, especially when most Christians I have met are rather direct and at times can be insensitive in focusing on differences rather than acknowledging and practising values like mutual love and respect (common for most religions in Singapore), towards all from different religions. When you walk into the church, you are telling them you want to be convinced, then of course, sooner or later, converted.
I don't think how walking into a church, will achieve anything concrete, without creating unnecessary misunderstandings in the first place. Furthermore, one person going there or many like-minded Buddhists? We don't want to give any Christians the impression we are like trying to 'ti1 guan3' (challenge the church's beliefs). -
I agree with you, especially on the last statement.Originally posted by Beyond Religion:Inter-religious harmony is about respecting the rights of others to their religion. I respect a Christian's rights to believe in Christianity, hence I do not go about trying to de-convert Christians. Likewise, I expect Christians to respect my rights and leave me alone when I turn down their requests to go to church. Inter-religious harmony is not about yielding to every demand of Christians at the expense of my own freedom of belief and freedom of action.
As it is, there are far more Buddhists attending churches than there are Christians attending dharma talks. -
Hey, new creation, I was hoping also for more christians like you to express their views on my topic. Others are important, but hearing christians like you speak out makes me feel encouraged that not all are over-zealous to the extent of ignoring the sensitivities and choices of others.Originally posted by New Creation:Hmm although i am a christian, i would like to give you an objective view on the insistence for tangible evidence that God exist; and subsequently, i will also teach you how to turn down your friends invitation. ;-)
1) Can all occurance in this universe/nature be explained by Science? I believe the answer is no. Who fills in this gap? I believe it is God. Even from nature's point of view, why is it that birds are able to navigate across oceans to escape the winter to a warmer climate and yet be able to return to their point of origin? Why is it that after the sea turtles lay their eggs on the beach, these eggs hatch, the young turtles grows into adulthood and then they are able to navigate unaided to the same spot where their parents laid the eggs? If God took so much effort to take care of these animals, then how much more love he will expend on us human beings?
2) There are also many documented documentaries on the miracles of God, the live testimonies of people who have in one way or another being cured of incurable diseases, illness, or physical deformities. Just do a quite check online and read these testimonies. Sure, you may question then why are there still sick people around? But say in a evangilical service, if only 100 people out of 100,000 people who attended the service are cured of their illnesses, then we shoud rejoice and be happy for this 100 people who are cured, and nt be griefed that the balance were not cured.
3) In the same logic just as people demand to see the tangible being of God, can you also ask if you can see the tangible being of the Gods of other religions? (Please do not count the wooden idols which are worshipped. Those are not tangible proofs too. ;-) )
4) Lastly, I think there are quarters of christians in Singapore who are overtly zealous in trying to bring salvation to their friends. You see, there is a God's eventual timeline for a person to be saved from salvation. But when these christians push it too far, they are using their own efforts, which then now involves their own pride and ego, their pride to want to use humanly effort to bring a person to salvation;cz they believe in using their own efforts to please God, and these mindset would then revert to the system of Laws in the old testament; for in the new testament, God has invoked a new convenent, to embrace grace rather than laws.
Just take the incident when the Korean missionary group was kidnapped in Iraq. Im sure in all wisdom, the holy spirit and God told the group not to proceed, but they still did, in a bid to use human effort to win, to outshine and proof that their church is the most gung-ho in South Korea. The result of course is tragic with the loss of 2 lives.
5) Hence, i believe in this case the best reply to decline your friend's invitation is, "God's timeline is not up yet for me to embrace him.". Because Jesus is such a gentlemen, he will only come in when u knock on his door. And this being said, also be aware that God always place us at the right time and right place to be saved. So ha, you will never know in near future, or decades from now, you would embrace him.
Alrites, this is my 2 cents worth of comment. Please accept my apologies if i offended anybody.
I'm so glad that you have views that are balanced and respectful of others in point 4. I'm also thankful that you are willing to give an example of how to politely decline a fellow member of your faith.
I do agree with you about your views about the Korean missionaries' abduction case. Sorry, but I do feel a bit uncomfortable after not being able to understand why they were unable to consider long term and wide-ranging implications of their actions for their country and the rest of the world.
I will try to use your example and parts of advice from all here which I can understand and use , and if I'm stuck again after my cousin counter-attacks me (i lack the gift of real time response), please don't ignore me if I pm you. paiseh. haha. -
Hi concerned man, I agree with walking the talk in my attitude and actions towards Buddhism. However, may I confess, I still don't know if Buddhism is really right for me. But I'm sure Christianity cannot be right for me in the long run, cos the Law of Cause and Effect always holds true, and is always in all of us no matter what we may say about its validity or existence.Originally posted by concerned_man:imo, the best polite way to decline the invitations is not to tell him off, but to show him how sincere and serious you are into Buddhism ( if you have decided that Buddhism is right for you ) . See if you can show by actions and keep yourself busy doing these: deligently study the Dharma, learn meditation, be a vegetarian on certain day in a week, sincerely chants Sutra or name of Buddha or Bodisattaw you prefer (without causing any disturbance to your family members), etc. Set a strict routine for all these. Once you have proven yourself, and he observed it, he probably will stop inviting you.
By the way you are protected by Singapore Constitutional law to profess in any lawful faith you choose. No one has the right to force you.
But before I achieved the high standards of being a real buddhist, I do need to know how to properly manage my relationship with him in the meanwhile. That's important for me. -
say before liao, they even appear more happy and ask me to come to Church since I can identify with Jesus's work and sacrifice. Will kena pwned by them, haha.Originally posted by neutral_onliner:U can tell them tat u know abt christianity & have great respect for jesus and one of the reason u decide to become a buddhist is becos jesus was such a great buddhist -
Say before about friendship thing, out of all whom I have mentioned upfront quickly, only a few can TRY to be less hiong. Try only hor.Originally posted by FireAndHell:Just tell your christian friends that all religions preach goodwill and we have the same god, but in a different perspective. To say that a particular religion is the end all....... and the the others are heretics.......is like saying a particular religion is arrogant and do not respect the universal belief that there is one and the same god, with different interpretations and perspective as regards to different race and the region and time the religion was born.
If your christian friends still persists......which I noe most christian sects do...they always think theirs is the ultimate one and the other religions should be trampled upon........than tell them.......if they still cherish your friendship....they should respect your decision to be a Buddist.....