Like I've said, speaking your mind should not be used an excuse to shoot your mouth off. This applies to anyone in general, with or without religion. No one is asking you to be pretentious, don't misunderstand. Perhaps to you people are nice/friendly/polite only when they are being pretentious, but other people have a different view/perspective.Originally posted by TheGoodEarth:My approach is simple: say it like it is. I don't have a complicated mind where the state is pretentious.
Thank you for agreeing with something I have mentioned previously more than once.Of course they are real people with the usual human weaknesses, pride and prejudice. [/quote]
I'm not sure whether you got what I meant about the being online issue, but somehow, you view being online as a reason to be less polite and less civil. Let's just say I have a different perspective/view. Can you accept I adopt a different approach? Or is your approach the only way?
The things I say here are no different from what I would tell the people I meet off the internet. Perhaps you see a need to change between being on the internet and not being on the internet. Could I just ask why is it you change your styles between on the internet and when you meet people in person?
Please understand I am not saying one should withhold truth or be dishonest just because you are coming face to face to people.Civility doesn't mean you have to be pretentious.
Your post is too long!Originally posted by SumOne:I'm not sure what you are saying, but correct me if what I say is wrong. You dare to say it like how you see it because you do not have to worry about someone physically confronting you in person?
I take issue with #2. Somebody else's Gods/ deities may be classified under gods "people anyhow worship" under your religion. This point can well be the catalyst for religious disharmony.Originally posted by Creation1656:Maybe T.S can consider this religion. A religion based on the 7 universal laws for Humanity. They are as follows:
1. Do not utter G-d name in vain. i.e No more suicide bombers etc.
2. Do not anyhow worship everything as gods. i.e No more religious wars etc.
3. Do not steal.
4. Do not murder.
5. Do not be immoral.
6. Set up righteous and honest courts and apply fair justice in judging offenders.
7. Be kind to animals, although you may be allowed to eat them as food.
Shalom
#2 as well, since Buddhism does not worship any gods as well, along with God.Originally posted by Beyond Religion:I don't think #1 is relevant since as a Buddhist, I do not believe in the concept of a creator God.
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
No fanaticism
Of Buddhism alone can it be affirmed it is free from all fanaticism. Its aim being to produce in every man a thorough internal transforming by self-conquest, how can it have recourse to might or money or even persuasion for effecting conversion? The Buddha has only shown the way to salvation, and it is left to each individual to decide for himself if he would follow it.
- Prof. Lakshmi Narasu, "The Essence of Buddhism"
Kalama Sutra
"Rely not on the teacher/person, but on the teaching. Rely not on the words of the teaching, but on the
spirit of the words. Rely not on theory, but on experience.Do not believe in anything simply because you
have heard it. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. Do
not believe anything because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything because it is
written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and
elders. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is
conducive to the good and the benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it."
- the Buddha
full version: http://www.buddhistinformation.com/the_kalama_sutra.htm
Even though Buddhism does not worship any gods or God, I do agree with Beyond Religion that... how is not worshipping everything as gods related to no more religious wars?Originally posted by Creation1656:2. Do not anyhow worship everything as gods. i.e No more religious wars etc.
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Excerpt from A New Earth by Eckhart Tolle, page 13 to 19
THE ARISING NEW CONSCIOUSNESS
Most ancient religions and spiritual traditions share the same common insight – that our “normal” state of mind is marred by a fundamental defect. However, out of this insight into the nature of the human condition – we may call it the bad news – arise a second insight: the good news of the possibility of a radical transformation of human consciousness. In Hindu teachings (and sometimes in Buddhism also), this transformation is called enlightenment. In the teachings of Jesus, it is salvation, and in Buddhism, it is the end of sufferings. Liberation and awakening are other terms used to describe this transformation.
The greatest achievement of humanity is not the works of art, science, or technology, but the recognition of its own dysfunction, its own madness. In the distant past, this recognition already came to a few individuals. A man called Gautama Siddhartha, who lived 2,600 years ago in India, was perhaps the first who saw it with absolute clarity. Later, the title Buddha was conferred upon him. Buddha means “the awakened one.” At about the same time, another of humanity’s early awakened teachers emerged in China. His name was Lao Tzu. He left a record of his teaching in the form of one of the most profound spiritual books ever written, the Tao Te Ching.
To recognise one’s own insanity is, of course, the arising of sanity, the beginning of healing and transcendence. A new dimension of consciousness had begun to emerge on the planet, a first tentative flowering. Those rare individuals then spoke to their contemporaries. They spoke of sin, of suffering, of delusion. They said, “Look how you live. See what you are doing, the suffering you create.” They then pointed to the possibility of awakening from the collective nightmare of “normal” human existence. They showed the way.
The world was not yet ready for them, and yet they were a vital and necessary part of human awakening. Inevitably they were mostly misunderstood by their contemporaries as well as by subsequent generations. Their teachings, though both simple and powerful, became distorted and misinterpreted, in some cases even as they were recorded in writing by their disciples. Over the centuries, many things were added that had nothing to do with the original teachings, but were reflections of a fundamental misunderstanding. Some of the teachers were ridiculed, reviled, or killed; others came to be worshiped as gods. Teachings that pointed the way beyond the dysfunction of the human mind, the way out of the collective insanity, were distorted and became themselves part of the insanity.
And so religions, to a large extent, became divisive rather than unifying forces. Instead of bringing about an end of violence and hatred through a realisation of the fundamental oneness of all life, they brought more violence and hatred, more divisions between people as well as between different religions and even within the same religion. They became ideologies; belief systems people could identify with and so use them to enhance their false sense of self. Through them, they could make themselves “right” and others “wrong” and thus define their identity through their enemies, the “others,” the “nonbelievers” or “wrong believers” who not infrequently they saw themselves justified in killing. Man made “God” in his own image. The eternal, the infinite, and unnameable was reduced to a mental idol that you had to believe in and worship as “my god” or “our god.”
And yetÂ…. And yetÂ… in spite of all the insane deeds perpetrated in the name of religion, the Truth to which they point still shines at their core. It still shines, however dimly, through layers upon layers of distortion and misinterpretation. It is unlikely; however, that you will be able to perceive it there unless you have at least already had glimpses of that Truth within yourself. Throughout history, there have always been rare individuals who experienced a shift in consciousness and so realised within themselves that toward which all religions point. To describe that nonconceptual Truth, they then used the conceptual framework of their own religions.
Through some of those men and women, “schools” or movements developed within all major religions that represented not only a rediscovery, but in some cases an intensification of the light of the original teaching. This is how Gnosticism and mysticism came into existence in early and medieval Christianity, Sufism in the Islamic religion, Hasidism and Kabbalah in Judaism, Advaita Vedanta in Hinduism, Zen and Dzogchen in Buddhism. Most of these schools were iconoclastic. They did away with layers upon layers of deadening conceptualisation and mental belief structures, and for this reason most of them were viewed with suspicion and often hostility by the established religious hierarchies. Unlike mainstream religion, their teachings emphasised realisation and inner transformation. It is through these esoteric schools or movements that the major religions regained the transformative power of the original teachings, although in most cases, only a small minority of people had access to them. Their numbers were never large enough to have any significant impact on the deep collective unconsciousness of the majority. Over time, some of those schools themselves became too rigidly formal or conceptualised to remain effective.
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
SPIRITUALITY AND RELIGION
What is the role of the established religions in the arising of the new consciousness? Many people are already aware of the difference between spirituality and religion. They realise that having a belief system – a set of thoughts that you regard as the absolute truth – does not make you spiritual no matter what the nature of those beliefs is. In fact, the more you make your thoughts (beliefs) into your identity, the more cut off you are from the spiritual dimension within yourself. Many “religious” people are stuck at that level. They equate truth with thought, and as they are completely identified with thought (their mind), they claim to be in sole possession of the truth in an unconscious attempt to protect their identity. They don’t realise the limitations of thought. Unless you believe (think) exactly as they do, you are wrong in their eyes, and in the not-too-distant past, they would have justified in killing you for that. And some still do, even now.
The new spirituality, the transformation of consciousness, is arising to a large extent outside the structures of the existing institutionalised religions. They were always pockets of spirituality even in mind-dominated religions, although the institutionalised hierarchies felt threatened by them and often tried to suppress them. A large-scale opening of spirituality outside of religious structures is an entirely new development. In the past, this would have been inconceivable, especially in the West, the most mind-dominated of all cultures, where the Christian church had a virtual franchise on spirituality. You couldnÂ’t just stand up and give a spiritual talk or publish a book unless you were sanctioned by the church, and if you were not, they would quickly silence you. But now, even within certain churches and religions, there are signs of change. It is heartwarming, and one is grateful for even the slightest signs of openness, such as Pope John Paul II visiting a mosque as well as a synagogue.
Partly as a result of the spiritual teachings that have arisen outside the established religions, but also due to an influx of the ancient Eastern wisdom teachings, a growing number of followers of traditional religions are able to let go of identification with form, dogma, and rigid belief systems and discover the original depth that is hidden within their own spiritual tradition at the same ime as they discover the depth within themselves. They realise that how “spiritual” you are has nothing to do with what you believe but everything to do with your state of consciousness. This in turn, determines how you act in the world and interact with others.
Those unable to look beyond form become even more deeply entrenched in their beliefs, that is to say, in their mind. We are witnessing not only an unprecedented influx of consciousness at this time but also an entrenchment and intensification of the ego. Some religious institutions will be open to the new consciousness; others will harden their doctrinal positions and become part of all the other man-made structures through which the collective ego will defend itself and “fight back.” Some churches, sects, cults, or religious movements are basically collective egoic entities, as rigidly identified with their mental positions as the followers of any political ideology that is closed to any alternative interpretation of reality.
But the ego is destined to dissolve, and all its ossified structures, whether they be religious or other institutions, corporations, or governments, will disintegrate from within, no matter how deeply entrenched they appear to be. The most rigid structures, the most impervious to change, will collapse first. This has already happened in the case of Soviet Communism. How deeply entrenched, how solid and monolithic it appeared, and yet within a few years, it disintegrated from within. No one foresaw this. All were taken by surprise. There are many more such surprises in store for us.
Very true indeed.Originally posted by sanath:Well the three monotheistic religions we know now - Judaism, Christianity and Islam have been fighting with each other because they view that ONLY THEIR view of God is correct and other(s) are wrong. BTW, the three worship the SAME God, because all three have the same root, belonging to the same Abrahamic religion(s).
Originally posted by Sanath:Please allow me to explain. Although the 3 Abrahamic faiths share the same roots they did not share the same G-d.
Well the three monotheistic religions we know now. Judaism, Christianity and Islam have been fighting with each other because they view that ONLY THEIR VIEW of God is correct and other(s) are wrong. BTW, the three worship the SAME God, because all three have the same roots belonging to the same Abrahamic religion(s).
If what you say about Judaism is true... wow!Originally posted by Creation1656:Please allow me to explain. Although the 3 Abrahamic faiths share the same roots they did not share the same G-d.
1. Christians god is Jesus. Muslims god is Allah. In Judaism, Jews address their G-d Adonai Elohin. G-d proper name cannot be mentioned.
2. Christians and Muslims god create Hell for the benefits of all unbelievers, in their afterlife. In Christian Hell, all its PR will enjoy 24/7, eternal BBQ with eternal fire. A frightening prospects for Buddists, Jews and all others. In Judaism, their G-d will NEVER create hell, to BBQ people for eternality. There is no HELL in Judaism.
3. Church collect tithes of 10% of Salary. Judaism don't.
4. Christians go to Heaven. Muslims go to Paradise. In Judaism, when a person die, he sleep.
5. Judaism does not proselytise, in fact they even discourage conversions. Contrast with how fanatical christians can be in their quest to recruit new members. Spnw07 should know.
Shalom
Just to clarify; There is no concept of an after-life in Judaism? To my understanding, Judaism is a monotheistic religion. Does that mean its believers have to uphold the sovereignty of their G-d. If there is no hell for unbelievers to go to, how do you prevent erosion to G-d's sovereignty?Originally posted by Creation1656:Please allow me to explain. Although the 3 Abrahamic faiths share the same roots they did not share the same G-d.
1. Christians god is Jesus. Muslims god is Allah. In Judaism, Jews address their G-d Adonai Elohin. G-d proper name cannot be mentioned.
2. Christians and Muslims god create Hell for the benefits of all unbelievers, in their afterlife. In Christian Hell, all its PR will enjoy 24/7, eternal BBQ with eternal fire. A frightening prospects for Buddists, Jews and all others. In Judaism, their G-d will NEVER create hell, to BBQ people for eternality. There is no HELL in Judaism.
3. Church collect tithes of 10% of Salary. Judaism don't.
4. Christians go to Heaven. Muslims go to Paradise. In Judaism, when a person die, he sleep.
5. Judaism does not proselytise, in fact they even discourage conversions. Contrast with how fanatical christians can be in their quest to recruit new members. Spnw07 should know.
Shalom
That's why I assured my parents that even if I were to one day backslide as a Buddhist or even give up being a Buddhist, I will probably revert back to being a free-thinker than to become a Christian or Muslim.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Buddhism is perhaps the only (or the very few) religions that has not fought any religious wars in history.
Furthermore, Buddhism rises above beliefs -- we feel no need to forcefully persuade or convert anyone, for the teachings is like science. You can practice and see it for yourself -- you can see and realize for yourself every spiritual truth that the Buddha taught, you can attain enlightenment for yourself... rather than blindly relying on belief
In this age where moral values are vague and messy, where everyone has each of his/her own interpretation of moral values and religious concepts, the words of the Buddha are like the light that guides us through the darkness and the fog.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Kalama Sutra
Guidelines by the Buddha prior to his parinnirvana:
1) "Rely not on the teacher/person, but on the teaching. "
2) "Rely not on the words of the teaching, but on the spirit of the words. "
3) "Rely not on theory, but on experience.Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. "
4) "Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations."
5) "Do not believe anything because it is spoken and rumored by many."
6) "Do not believe in anything because it is written in your religious books."
7) "Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders.
But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and the benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it."
- the Buddha
full version: http://www.buddhistinformation.com/the_kalama_sutra.htm
I agree, especially with the paragraph highlighted in blue.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:It is a fact that many/most/all monotheistic religions that worship only one God has engaged in violent religious fighting in the past or present.
The reason for holy wars is not because they worship many gods, but because they identify with their God as the 'only true god' and therefore all others must be 'false gods'. It is a deeply attached, identified mental belief and position that is the cause of so much unrest.
Actually those people that worship many gods are in fact more peaceful because they are more open minded, it seems. You never heard our local Chinese folk cultures that worships many deities had engaged in religious fightings.. they seem much more tolerant on beliefs.
Of course, like previously said, Buddhism is also not like them and we do not worship any single gods or God.
Thanks really for explaining the different aspects between Christianity, Islam and Judaism. Am also studying about Judaism too. But I know I still need to gather more information concerning modern views and developments regarding Judaism. I want to read or hear views which are moderate, peaceful and all-encompassing.Originally posted by Creation1656:Please allow me to explain. Although the 3 Abrahamic faiths share the same roots they did not share the same G-d.
1. Christians god is Jesus. Muslims god is Allah. In Judaism, Jews address their G-d Adonai Elohin. G-d proper name cannot be mentioned.
2. Christians and Muslims god create Hell for the benefits of all unbelievers, in their afterlife. In Christian Hell, all its PR will enjoy 24/7, eternal BBQ with eternal fire. A frightening prospects for Buddists, Jews and all others. In Judaism, their G-d will NEVER create hell, to BBQ people for eternality. There is no HELL in Judaism.
3. Church collect tithes of 10% of Salary. Judaism don't.
4. Christians go to Heaven. Muslims go to Paradise. In Judaism, when a person die, he sleep.
5. Judaism does not proselytise, in fact they even discourage conversions. Contrast with how fanatical christians can be in their quest to recruit new members. Spnw07 should know.
Shalom
Originally posted by Beyond Religion:I will try to answer your question with a question. Would a merciful and righteous G-d, create HELL to BBQ his creations for eternality? For example, If you keep a pet dog, a disobedience dog, would you BBQ him alive, to show your sovereignity? Surely Not.
Just to clarify; There is no concept of an after-life in Judaism. To my understanding, Judaism is a monotheistic religion. Does that mean its believers have to uphold the sovereignity of their G-d. If there is no hell for unbelievers to go to, how do you prevent erosion to G-d sovereignity?
Hi,Originally posted by Creation1656:Please allow me to explain. Although the 3 Abrahamic faiths share the same roots they did not share the same G-d.
1. Christians god is Jesus. Muslims god is Allah. In Judaism, Jews address their G-d Adonai Elohin. G-d proper name cannot be mentioned.
2. Christians and Muslims god create Hell for the benefits of all unbelievers, in their afterlife. In Christian Hell, all its PR will enjoy 24/7, eternal BBQ with eternal fire. A frightening prospects for Buddists, Jews and all others. In Judaism, their G-d will NEVER create hell, to BBQ people for eternality. There is no HELL in Judaism.
3. Church collect tithes of 10% of Salary. Judaism don't.
4. Christians go to Heaven. Muslims go to Paradise. In Judaism, when a person die, he sleep.
5. Judaism does not proselytise, in fact they even discourage conversions. Contrast with how fanatical christians can be in their quest to recruit new members. Spnw07 should know.
Shalom
I don't know who misquote it but obviously Kalama Sutta was NOT prior Buddha's parinibbana. Please try to get the facts right before putting it on a forum as it will easily mislead.Originally posted by Spnw07:quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Kalama Sutra
Guidelines by the Buddha prior to his parinnirvana:
1) "Rely not on the teacher/person, but on the teaching. "
2) "Rely not on the words of the teaching, but on the spirit of the words. "
3) "Rely not on theory, but on experience.Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. "
4) "Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations.";
5) "Do not believe anything because it is spoken and rumored by many."
6) "Do not believe in anything because it is written in your religious books."
7) "Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders.
But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and the benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it."
- the Buddha
full version: http://www.buddhistinformation.com/the_kalama_sutra.htm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In this age where moral values are vague and messy, where everyone has each of his/her own interpretation of moral values and religious concepts, the words of the Buddha are like the light that guides us through the darkness and the fog.
May all sentient beings who have read or heard about the above, one day, attain Buddhahood.