How to politely decline invitations to church?
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Anyway guys, I think the last few entries had diverted from "How to politely decline invitations to church?".
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Yep yep... we went off topicOriginally posted by yamizi:Anyway guys, I think the last few entries had diverted from "How to politely decline invitations to church?".
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Anyway eight pages on we still cannot find a workable polite way to decline invitations to church... Perhaps there is none. Perhaps we have to be direct, firm but polite in declining these unwanted invitations. -
Yes, there is no one way to decline. Just say that you are not interested. Be firm but polite. However, if the other party keeps on persisiting, just "put your foot down" and say "No!". That's it.
I know how it can be when most of your relatives are Christian and you are the only Buddhist. I am in that situation. When i was still a "new" Buddhist, my relatives, mainly my aunties, would keep on asking why i became a Buddhist and would ask me to go back to church etc. Of course, since they are my elders i could not be rude, so i just told them i was not interested and did not believe in Christianity anymore, so i declined.
Nowadays of course, after more then 12 years and being ordained a Buddhist priest in Japan, they have learnt to respect my choice. It takes time, but after a few "invitations" when they find out you are really not interested they will give up. So just be patient.
Gassho -
Hmm, I hope that I don't really have to endure more than 12 years for people around me to respect my choice.Originally posted by sanath:Yes, there is no one way to decline. Just say that you are not interested. Be firm but polite. However, if the other party keeps on persisiting, just "put your foot down" and say "No!". That's it.
I know how it can be when most of your relatives are Christian and you are the only Buddhist. I am in that situation. When i was still a "new" Buddhist, my relatives, mainly my aunties, would keep on asking why i became a Buddhist and would ask me to go back to church etc. Of course, since they are my elders i could not be rude, so i just told them i was not interested and did not believe in Christianity anymore, so i declined.
Nowadays of course, after more then 12 years and being ordained a Buddhist priest in Japan, they have learnt to respect my choice. It takes time, but after a few "invitations" when they find out you are really not interested they will give up. So just be patient.
Gassho
People usually will not stop pestering or nagging you to go church unless you become a religious leader of your faith, as in your case. Happy that you are sharing with me about your path in Buddhism and have a fellow Buddhist understand what I am going through.
I understand that it takes time...now can only hope that new faces of the Christian faith will maintain respectable distance and restrain their zealousness in trying to get me to go to church. -
Originally posted by yamizi:
Thanks for pointing out that the Kalama Sutra was not said by Buddha prior to his parinibbana.
I don't know who misquote it but obviously Kalama Sutta was [b]NOT prior Buddha's parinibbana. Please try to get the facts right before putting it on a forum as it will easily mislead.
In the Mahaparinibbana Sutta which was prior to Buddha's parinibbana, Buddha spoke to Venerable Ananda:
""It may be, Ananda, that to some among you the thought will come: 'Ended is the word of the Master; we have a Master no longer.' But it should not, Ananda, be so considered. For that which I have proclaimed and made known as the Dhamma and the Discipline, that shall be your Master when I am gone."
So what Buddha reminded us prior His parinibbana was that we should always refer our practice to the Dhamma and Discipline that He had laid down.
The Kalama Sutta itself is an often misquote and abused sutta which ended up buddhists used it questionn their own beliefs. A study on the sutta's background would allow one to understand Buddha said this teachings when He met the group of kalama who are highly intellectual people. So many of the other religions tried to impress them by presenting very highly of their own religions. Buddha, being most wise, instead of presenting as per norm, He had in fact used a reverse psychological tactic which made the kalama to think for themselves.
The Criterion for Acceptance
10. "Come, Kalamas. Do not go upon what has been acquired by repeated hearing; nor upon tradition; nor upon rumor; nor upon what is in a scripture; nor upon surmise; nor upon an axiom; nor upon specious reasoning; nor upon a bias towards a notion that has been pondered over; nor upon another's seeming ability; nor upon the consideration, 'The monk is our teacher.' Kalamas, when you yourselves know: 'These things are good; these things are not blamable; these things are praised by the wise; undertaken and observed, these things lead to benefit and happiness,' enter on and abide in them.
15. "Therefore, did we say, Kalamas, what was said thus, 'Come Kalamas. Do not go upon what has been acquired by repeated hearing; nor upon tradition; nor upon rumor; nor upon what is in a scripture; nor upon surmise; nor upon an axiom; nor upon specious reasoning; nor upon a bias towards a notion that has been pondered over; nor upon another's seeming ability; nor upon the consideration, "The monk is our teacher." Kalamas, when you yourselves know: "These things are good; these things are not blamable; these things are praised by the wise; undertaken and observed, these things lead to benefit and happiness," enter on and abide in them.'
--- From Kalama Sutta
So the end purpose was that Buddha whom believe that His Dhamma is the best, still intend to convert the kalama into the Dhamma too!
So it is obvious that Kalama Sutta is used on non-buddhists instead of buddhists ourselves. It should be seen as a method for us to apply when a non-buddhistic faith tried to challenge our faith.[/b]
It was my mistake but at the same time, it was from the start a personal way of categorising things in which I treat all teachings by the Buddha as prior to his parinibbana, and not just about the Mahaparinibbana sutta alone, which is the final teaching before his parinibbana, if I'm not mistaken again.
I apologise for causing any misunderstanding among readers. -
Our Christian friends have made the news, for the wrong reason, yet again. The following texts taken from ST Forum on Nov 22 2007
http://www.straitstimes.com/ST%2BForum/Story/STIStory_179213.htmlCommunity hospitals must not aid conversions
I AM a primary health-care doctor involved in the care of older people in the community.
Sometime last year, I referred a woman under my care to a Christian-supported community hospital for rehabilitative care. Not long after she was discharged, she came to see me and expressed confusion over her faith.
She said that she was visited by young people whom she said were related to the staff in the community hospital, bearing gifts and repeatedly asking her to convert to Christianity.
She said she has been a devotee of Kwan Yin (the Goddess of Mercy) for most of her life and it was hard to give it up. I told her that whatever gave her peace of mind would be the 'right' religion.
Some time later, she said that she had decided to stick to Kwan Yin and had politely asked the young people not to visit her again.
Recently, she was admitted to the same hospital for convalescence from a life-threatening accident. During her stay there, she experienced much physical discomfort and fear.
She was approached by a woman staff member who told her that it was God who saved her from death during the accident. She decided to convert. However, she said she would try to postpone the baptism.
The holistic management of an older person includes a spiritual component. Hence pastoral care in a community hospital is important.
However, those engaged in pastoral care must be trained to empower a patient to draw on his religious affiliation to deal with the physical suffering. It should not be an opportunity to convert the patient to the religion of the sponsoring organisation.
In the past, I allayed the occasional concern expressed by either a patient or the caregivers on the possibility of religious conversion in a community hospital. I am not so sure if I could now give the same assurance.
I appeal to the Ministry of Health to come out with guidelines on pastoral care for all the community hospitals so that the religious affiliation of patients is respected and protected.
There must not be any coercion to convert to another religion, especially when one is in pain and vulnerable.
Dr Tan Chek Wee -
" I am sorry but I have to decline this invitation. Sorry "
There.
Sweet & Simple. -
Thanks for sharing with us this article. I agree with the doctor that religious inclinations of every person, especially patients, should be respected.Originally posted by Beyond Religion:Our Christian friends have made the news, for the wrong reason, yet again. The following texts taken from ST Forum on Nov 22 2007
http://www.straitstimes.com/ST%2BForum/Story/STIStory_179213.html
Indeed, any teaching that brings a peace of mind to the individual and all those around him/her would be the right one to follow. -
Follow-up article in ST Forum on Nov 24 2007:Originally posted by Beyond Religion:Our Christian friends have made the news, for the wrong reason, yet again. The following texts taken from ST Forum on Nov 22 2007
http://www.straitstimes.com/ST%2BForum/Story/STIStory_179213.html
http://www.straitstimes.com/ST%2BForum/Online%2BStory/STIStory_179735.htmlStricter guidelines needed to ensure separation of religion and medical care
I WRITE in response to the letter by Dr Tan Chek Wee ('Community hospitals must not aid conversion' (ST, Nov 22).
A chill ran down my spine when I read the letter. It is indeed disturbing if the events he recounted are true.
But before I say anything else, allow me to first clarify that, lest anyone be mistaken, my following comments are not targeted at any religion in particular.
That said, my opinion is that while I recognise the utility, albeit one which is problematic, of advising patients to look towards religious faith as a source of support, the promoting of a particular religious faith to patients, especially those who are already of a particular faith, will strike me as a deplorable act of preying upon the emotional/psychological vulnerabilities of patients.
It is even more deplorable if those promoting the particular religious faith are those who are, at the same time, providing medical care to patients. This, considering how patients are in a rather vulnerable position of being placed under their care, would be a gross abuse of their position as caregivers.
Thus, with the above in mind, I would second Dr Tan's call for stricter guidelines to be put in place to ensure the separation of religion and medical care.
Also, seeing how the lady patient described in Dr Tan's letter mentioned that 'she was visited by young people whom she said were related to the staff in the community hospital, bearing gifts and repeatedly asking her to convert to Christianity', I would call upon the unnamed community hospital mentioned in the letter to thoroughly investigate the presence of irregularities by their staff which, in this case, would evidently include the bringing in of outsiders to promote a particular religious faith to patients.
Loh Choong Chiat -
I am a Buddhist. I RESPECT all religions.
I am also those who dislike being invited to church. I just don't like it when Christians go around and promote their religion. For us Buddhists, we don't do that. I feel ridiculous when they say, "when you die, you will go up to heaven", it is like as though no one would go hell even when they commit a sin. That sounds very unfair.
Christians who are Chinese give me an impression that they speak English all the time, and neglect mandarin.
They invited me to church. I declined by saying I am a devoted Buddhist, it isn't nice to go. I am sure they will be afraid to visit a temple and listen to dharma speeches. My Buddhist teacher told us that we shouldn't go to a church for the sake of fun or friends because they teaches different things.
My relatives converted when I was in primary one, my ah ma ask me to become a Christian, I was interested at first. But I studied Buddhism, I realised I shouldn't convert because I feel that I have already learn so much about Buddhism, and I feel uneasy if I convert. I feel good as a Buddhist, i don't see why I should convert just because of friends or just some promoting comments. I can stay as happy even without believing in another religion. -
I want to say that everybody make their own choices. You can't force a person to believe in a certain religion. Let people see for themselves.
I heard many cases of people converting into a Christian, however, I I have only heard of one case which a Christian converted into a Buddhist.
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Not necessarily true... Christians generally make alot more noises than Buddhists. This is especially true for the new Christian converts. We Buddhists on the other hand, tend to be more reserved about our own religious belief and do not express our religiousity as ... rigourously as the Christians. This may cause you to observe the phenomenon you describe above.Originally posted by sbs&tibs:I heard many cases of people converting into a Christian, however, I I have only heard of one case which a Christian converted into a Buddhist. -
Hmm, well, it could indeed be so. However, my observation so far is the same: that it is very rare to know a Christian who wants to convert to Buddhism. This is the same impression an ordinary layman without any religious belief would generally have.Originally posted by Beyond Religion:Not necessarily true... Christians generally make alot more noises than Buddhists. This is especially true for the new Christian converts. We Buddhists on the other hand, tend to be more reserved about our own religious belief and do not express our religiousity as ... rigourously as the Christians. This may cause you to observe the phenomenon you describe above.
To prove our own hypothesis, we can observe carefully the number of Christians friends which we constantly keep in contact with along with that of Buddhist friends. We can then arrive at our own answers. If you are into objective statistical study, you can go around asking in the streets, at churches and temples and related religious organisations.
Statistically wise, from recent books about world religions, written from a secular view, the findings are that Christianity has the largest following in the world (which includes catholics), followed by Islam, then third or fourth, Buddhism.
I'm not trying to play a numbers game or brag or despise Buddhism or any other religion through the above statements.
I just want say that Christians are generally firm in their faith, even though they may have backslided for a number of years. (a Christian term to describe that the person has not maintained his/her efforts to keep in constant spiritual contact with their God).
In any age of humanity, we need no arrogance. However, silence is not necessarily golden at all times. While Buddhists need not brag or purposely shout out their religious conversion or thump their chests about their pride in their choice, personally I feel that we should nevertheless continue to work together towards educating the general public, to allow them to have a better and accurate understanding of the Buddha's teachings, as the Buddha came down for only one purpose: to help us see the Truth. But for the ordinary layman, what better way for them to get in touch with Buddhism than through live humans who practise the Buddha's teachings, not just from books or audio-visual materials alone.
We have to cater to the different levels of mental and emotional intelligence of every individual. I believe that is the primary and most important role and goal of every Buddhist, beginner and elders alike. -
i believe schools and hospitals should serve their primary purpose, ie, to educate the youngs and to save the sick and injured, efore going into their secondary purpose, whether its religious, or otherwise
if they cannot fulfil this, we should not be funding them using our taxes -
I am now trying to get in touch with as many ways as possible to decline invitations to church politely, hence I don't even mind posting this in an internet forum.Originally posted by sbs&tibs:I am a Buddhist. I RESPECT all religions.
I am also those who dislike being invited to church. I just don't like it when Christians go around and promote their religion. For us Buddhists, we don't do that. I feel ridiculous when they say, "when you die, you will go up to heaven", it is like as though no one would go hell even when they commit a sin. That sounds very unfair.
Christians who are Chinese give me an impression that they speak English all the time, and neglect mandarin.
They invited me to church. I declined by saying I am a devoted Buddhist, it isn't nice to go. I am sure they will be afraid to visit a temple and listen to dharma speeches. My Buddhist teacher told us that we shouldn't go to a church for the sake of fun or friends because they teaches different things.
My relatives converted when I was in primary one, my ah ma ask me to become a Christian, I was interested at first. But I studied Buddhism, I realised I shouldn't convert because I feel that I have already learn so much about Buddhism, and I feel uneasy if I convert. I feel good as a Buddhist, i don't see why I should convert just because of friends or just some promoting comments. I can stay as happy even without believing in another religion.
Most of my relatives are either Catholics or Christians, and those that think they are Buddhists are still deeply entrenched in Taoist and folk beliefs. I can't help but feel alone, lonely, whatever.
I agree with your Buddhist teacher's advice and caution that we shouldn't go to a church for the sake of fun or companionship, as really, Buddhism is not just fundamentally different from Christianity, it is fundamentally different from all monotheistic or pantheistic religions as well.
The only common theme and teaching we have with most world religions is that we advocate and believe in peace and love for all mankind.
I salute you for your determination, your non-aggressive stance in relating to people who are non-Buddhists. This should be the image that any Buddhist should try to cultivate and maintain at all times.
Take care and thanks for sharing with me about your experience in relating to people and family of other faiths. ^_^ -
I agree with your point that schools and hospitals should always try to maintain and serve out their primary purpose. However I'm not so sure as to whether we should or should not fund them with taxes.Originally posted by laurence82:i believe schools and hospitals should serve their primary purpose, ie, to educate the youngs and to save the sick and injured, efore going into their secondary purpose, whether its religious, or otherwise
if they cannot fulfil this, we should not be funding them using our taxes
The views to that question should best be properly and carefully communicated to and discussed among the general public, the Government, the Buddhist community and all leaders of other religions. -
Well , u do have a point .Originally posted by Spnw07:I am now trying to get in touch with as many ways as possible to decline invitations to church politely, hence I don't even mind posting this in an internet forum.
Most of my relatives are either Catholics or Christians, and those that they are Buddhists are still deeply entrenched in Taoist and folk beliefs. I can't help but feel alone, lonely, whatever.
I agree with your Buddhist teacher's advice and caution that we shouldn't go to a church for the sake of fun or companionship, as really, Buddhism is not just fundamentally different from Christianity, it is fundamentally different from all monotheistic or pantheistic religions as well.
The only common theme and teaching we have with most world religions is that we advocate and believe in peace and love for all mankind.
I salute you for your determination, your non-aggressive stance in relating to people who are non-Buddhists. This should be the image that any Buddhist should try to cultivate and maintain at all times.
Take care and thanks for sharing with me about your experience in relating to people and family of other faiths. ^_^
anyway for me . I do have alot of christian fren
they wont ask me to go church as they respect my faith in Buddhism
most imptly ,people know me as non-imposing
since i dun impose on others , y should they impose on me
anyway , spwn , pls come for the skype session on Universal Gate Chapter ,
u will learn more from other experience -
Well, what can I say but to feel happy and envious that you have such Christian friends. Not that I don't have, it's just that I try to avoid the topic when it comes up cos I really don't like to rationalise or argue in any way about my choice in believing Buddhism.Originally posted by bohiruci:Well , u do have a point .
anyway for me . I do have alot of christian fren
they wont ask me to go church as they respect my faith in Buddhism
most imptly ,people know me as non-imposing
since i dun impose on others , y should they impose on me
anyway , spwn , pls come for the skype session on Universal Gate Chapter ,
u will learn more from other experience
Thanks for extending the invitation to me. However, I would much prefer that if possible, you could post a summary of important points discussed during the skype session down here to benefit anyone who comes to read posts in Wisdom Bliss.
My personal intention is to share with anyone who chooses to come into this Buddhist forum what I know or have/had experienced . Hopefully, any Buddhist teaching that is said or discussed down here, could offer some form of beneficial food for thought for all of them. -
Only when they do not serve their primary purpose, then the question of funding should come into the picture.Originally posted by Spnw07:I agree with your point that schools and hospitals should always try to maintain and serve out their primary purpose. However I'm not so sure as to whether we should or should not fund them with taxes.
The views to that question should best be properly and carefully communicated to and discussed among the general public, the Government, the Buddhist community and all leaders of other religions. -
My favourite form of declination:Originally posted by yamizi:Anyway guys, I think the last few entries had diverted from "How to politely decline invitations to church?".
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"God sux."
Works really well.
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Is very hard for me to believe there is a omnipresent God in the first place.Why i say that? Because he is the creator, so he created old age, sickness and death and he knew that when he was to create, there was to be destruction. If he creates all, he would be responsible for all evil too. If he is omnipresent and fair, everyone would receive an equal share of happiness and suffering. Why is there not ? He only asks his believers to look at the wonders of his creation, but he didnt ask them to look at his destruction.
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I dare not say I have been keeping to the topic strictly, because I wanted to hear as many views as possible on thing which may be related to the topic in some way.
I hope this topic would not be used by anyone as a platform to criticise the religious beliefs of others. While I do not deny I may have my own doubts, I don't think I will go so far as to consider the teachings of other religions as false or wrong or the Gods of other religions as 'evil beings'. To put it directly, I don't think the belief of any monotheistic or patheistic religion is totally wrong/false/evil. Unless it is a cult following which seeks only personal gratification through manipulative measures and its goal is never about benefiting mankind in ways that will lead to peace and love for all, be it for the short or long term.
It is ok that some of you here express your related feelings about religions here, but make sure that it is not too critical or direct.
P.S: Dear wilson, I appreciate you sharing your views here. However, I wish to point out that whether you are a Buddhist or a just a free-thinker, I do not think it is wise to label the God of any religion as a devil.
Please try to avoid using such labels during future interactions with people, be in on the internet or real-life. I am speaking out of concern not just for people with religious beliefs, but also for the possible negative effects that a fellow human being's words may have on others.
Simply, I am concerned about you.
Take care. -
Catholics are the most tolerant type to other religion as compared to other religion.. We respect other people faith .. We are called to "witness" to others.. but we have to do it a a repectful way ie. being sensitive, caring and loving .. rather than a aggressive and over zealous..
For those who have been courted aggressively by them .. maybe you want to visit the catholic church for a change.. of course it is at your free will no forcing.. to visit.. maybe you can admire the beauty of the architectaure of the design of the church.. the statues of our Lord Jesus.. Mother Mary and all the other saints.. Feel free to go.. esp Novena church. Many non catholics were mostly introduced to novena church and a result came to know Jesus thru the intercession of His Mother, Mother Mary.. a Mother to all of us.. catholics and non catholics alike..
Of course .. this is an invitation.. only.. Please no offense to anyone here.. Peace to all!!
God Bless .. all of you!
a Catholic..
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No doubt present-day catholics are tolerant compared to other christian churches (my mother being one herself), but this was not really applicable to the roman catholic church until Vatican 2 in the 1960s. Please do not forget the Inquisitions, Persecution of Jews, the Crusades and etc that were done before the Reformation by martin luther.
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Hi spnw07,
i think u may have misread wilson's post. He did not label the God of other religions as a devil, but did mention one point that the mono-theistic abrahamic religions failed to answer satisfactorily, that is, if God's creation was perfect, why was the devil, evil and suffering created as well? Some say that it was because of adam and eve's act of eating the fruit of wisdom, being tempted by the snake. If so, why was the snake (a metaphor for the devil, that is why some christians in singapore refuse to touch anything that has a dragon encarved or painted on it!) created as well?