how to be with self

• goldevil

  17 Oct 07, 09:57

  i have noticed that humans do things with intent , attachement and desires .
  
  i think self interest is the main cause of it .
  
  a bit like do things non naturally .
  
  how to be without a self ?
  
  without self , many of ur problems r solved .
• Beyond Religion

  17 Oct 07, 10:05

  We have a set of ingrained psychological and physiological imperatives that ensure the continued existence of human beings a species. The imperative to eat, sleep, procreate etc. etc.
  
  What is the difference between these imperatives and attachment, and how can these two be reconciled?
• AndrewPKYap

  17 Oct 07, 10:16

  Originally posted by goldevil:

  i have noticed that humans do things with intent , attachement and desires .
  
  i think self interest is the main cause of it .
  
  a bit like do things non naturally .
  
  how to be without a self ?
  
  without self , many of ur problems r solved .

  There is self, but it is does not exist inherently, you must realize this before you talk about getting rid of self... how can you get rid of something that does not exist (inherently)? You will fail miserably, you will be trying to get rid of "nothing". How can you succeed in getting rid of nothing? You cannot. You can never succeed.
• An Eternal Now

  17 Oct 07, 20:30

  Originally posted by goldevil:

  i have noticed that humans do things with intent , attachement and desires .
  
  i think self interest is the main cause of it .
  
  a bit like do things non naturally .
  
  how to be without a self ?
  
  without self , many of ur problems r solved .

  Like AndrewPKYap said, there never was an inherently existing self. Self is empty of inherent existence... it is merely the conditioned arising process of our 5 skhandas. There is ultimately no self to be found.
  
  Life (Self) is nothing other than the continuous flow of the Now Moment.
  The Now Moment ceases as it arises. This moment must completely ceased
  and serves as the CAUSE for the next moment to arise.
  Therefore Self is a process of series Self1, Self2, Self3, Self4, Self5, Self6...etc
  A fixed entity 'Self' does not exist, what really exists is a momentary Self.
  Under deep meditation, one is able to observe and sense the karmic and mental factors from moment to moment,
  it is these factors that are succeeded from moment to moment and life and life but not a fixed entity.
  When the karmic and mental factors subsides, it is known as "The True and Only (and Inherently egoless) Conscious Light (Itself)".
  
  - Thusness
  
  Self isn't real... but our false thinking, belief and notion that there is a self persists because we are still ignorant... So what is practise? Practise is simply letting go of our mental perception, our sense of personality, the sense of self. Just let go... relinquish such thoughts, moment to moment, with mindfulness.
  
  Moment to moment, keep watching your mind and don't give rise to 3 minds and the 4 forms, which are all sentient, deluded thoughts.
  
  

  http://www.jenchen.org.sg/vol7no2e.htm
  
  5. What is "I"? Is it real?
  
  Can anybody find the "I" in you? It is not an easy task. If you say "I can see you", who is this "I" that you are referring to? You may reply that the "I" is in fact your eyes. If you say, "I can hear you speaking of the Dharma", it is your ears not the "I" that heard me. Not only are the eyes and ears not the "I", even if they are, what about the nose, mouth, tongue, limbs, body, head or hair? They are not the "I" too. Since we cannot locate it, it does not seem meaningful to attach to this ego. Therefore, a Buddhism practitioner should comprehend this non-ego-form and maintain non-ego at all times. One will then realise that all forms are false (an illusion), including the ego-form. The "I" is false
  
  The "human-form" refers to the notion of a relative opposite when we encounter another person. Since we cannot find the ego-form or "I-form", how then can we find the human-form? We cannot. This is because the ego-form of the person whom we encounter is also not real; it is empty. The ego-form is empty, therefore, and naturally the human-form is also empty. Since the ego-form and the human-from are empty, it follows that the "sentient being-form" is also empty.
  
  Thus, the sense of time, or the time-form is also empty. A Buddhism practitioner should cultivate to be detached from the 'Three Minds'[1] and the 'Four Forms'[2]: not grasping the mind of the past, the present and the future, and not attached to the notion of the ego-form, the human-form, the sentient being-form and the time-form.
  
  Notes:
  [1] The Three Minds: (i) the past is gone and cannot be grasped. (ii) After this moment, the present becomes past and also cannot be grasped. (iii) The future is not here yet and therefore cannot be grasped too.
  
  [2] The four forms: Form - Characteristics; (i) Everybody has an ego, this is the ego- form. (ii) When we see another person, we perceive the human-form. (iii) When thoughts arise in our mind, we perceive the sentient being-form. (iv) The continuity of these thoughts through time gives rise to the time-form.
  
  6. What happens when we realised the non-existence of the Four Forms?
  
  When you free yourself from all forms, you will realise that all things are in fact empty. Within this emptiness there is infinite brightness. When you realise this infinite brightness, then the Amitabha Buddha in fact resides in your mind.

• An Eternal Now

  17 Oct 07, 20:32

  I also posted recently --
  
  From Master Shen Kai:
  
  Q: Could Shi Fu please give us a discourse on what is “True Self”?
  
  A: “True Self” is the opposite term of “False Self”, if you would like to know what “True Self” is, you would need to know what “False Self” is. We often say “this shirt is mine”, “this house is mine”, everything are ours. After saying for half a day, we still do not know where “I” is.
  
  If you say that our nose is “I”, then the eyes are who? If you say the eyes are “I”, then the ears are who? If you say the ears are “I”, then mouth is who? If you say the hands are “I”, then the legs are who? Actually all these are not Self. Therefore we say: My nose, My eyes, My ears, My mouth, My hair, My hands, My legs… we say everything belongs to me, but do not say that these are Me. What exactly is ‘Self’ then? Everyone would like to find out where is the ‘I’, please close your eyes to search and see if you can locate the "I". Shi Fu wants everyone to find the "I", everybody should know where is "I", if Shi fu were to find the ‘I’ for you, then this ‘I’ is no longer special. Often we hear many people are intelligent, yet they can’t even find the ‘I’, since we cannot even find the "I", how can we say “My dad”, “My son”, “My son’s wife”, “My valuable possessions”… everything is “Mine”, where exactly is “I” then?
  
  Here there is a layman (ju shi) who answered “I” is the mind, then please, this layman find your mind and show everyone. In the past the 2nd Zen Patriarch went to find Patriarch Bodhidharma, saying “Venerable! My mind is in pain. Please pacify my mind.” Bodhidharma replied, “Show it to me and I will pacify it for you.” Shen Kuang said in amazement, “Cannot find the mind!” Actually everyone is very clever, if someone wishes to deceive us it is not easy, yet the whole life we are deceived by our Mind, yet we are not aware of it at all.
  
  I see that to find the ‘I’ is very difficult for everyone, why not put it that way: Everyone has eyes, ears, nose, tongue, body, mind consciousness – these are the “Six Roots”. In relative to the “Six Roots” are Sight, Sound, Odour, Taste, Touch, “Six Dust”. We say our eyes are the “Eye Root”, seeing the colours are called “Six Dust”, the reason why know whether this is white, black, red etc…. is because of “Eye Consciousness”. We will be able to hear the sound of cars, the sound of speaking, the sound of the aeroplanes, the voice of singing, is because of “Ear-consciousness”, allowing us to differentiate, perceive so many sounds. Other than that, a single tongue, why is it able to know Sour, Sweet, Bitter, and Spicy, perceive so many tastes? It is because of “Tongue-consciousness”. Nose can smell so many kinds of odour, knowing perfumes are fragrant, excrement are foul-smelling; this is “Nose-consciousness”. Even if we close our eyes,
  We can raise out our hands to touch, and therefore know that this is table, chair, microphone, clothes, etc… this kind of using body to feel and perceive is called “Body-consciousness”. Also, when we close our eyes and think “What you say is very meaningful, what you said is right, your solution can work, and his sayings are meaningless…” This kind of pondering is called “Mind-consciousness”.
  
  Other than the six consciousnesses said above – Eye-consciousness, Ear-consciousness, Nose-consciousness, Tongue-consciousness, Body-consciousness and Mind-consciousness, there is also a Seventh and Eighth consciousness. Seventh consciousness is “Self” – “False Self”, and is the master of this body. The eighth consciousness can be said to be our Warehouse, it can also be said to be a Videotape. For example we meet someone in America, our eyes see at once, the mind immediately forms an impression – I think I recognize this person! Oh! Yes yes yes! This is Mr Zhang, or Mr Wang. But, where have I met him before? This, I must think a while. When we finally remembered, this is when we take out our videotape from the Eighth consciousness and playing it.
  
  Actually the Seventh Consciousness “False Self” is very strange! When our Six Roots (Six Sense Organ) are resting, it never rests; when our six roots are sleeping, it never sleeps; it wants to take out all the videotapes from the Eighth consciousness to watch. Yet this “False self” can function beyond our life, it can bring us to Heaven, it can also bring us to Hell. During the time of death, the “False Self” changes into a Transient-invisible-body (antarabhava; bardo). The Transient-invisible-body then goes into rebirth. We, the people who wishes to learn from the Buddha and cultivate, is to stop this “False Self”, not let it exist. “False Self” would ask our eyes to see bad things, it will also ask our mind to think of bad things, it would also ask our legs to do bad things, therefore “False Self” is not good at all to cultivation.
  
  There are many methods of cultivation aimed at defeating “False Self”. The Zen sect’s method is to do sitting meditation and koans, for example “striking seventh ch’an”, is to keep sitting and not letting the “False Self” arise. This so-called “Strike Seventh” is to strike down the Seventh Consciousness and not allowing the sentient-mind to arise. Chanting-Buddha dharma door is to chant “Amituofuo, Amituofuo”, keep on chanting until the Seventh Consciousness ceases its function. There is a saying “Striking the (sentient) mind dead, the Dharmakaya (dharma body) lives”, this is the meaning. If we cannot strike dead this “False Self”, then the Dharmakaya (dharma body) cannot live. Human Vehicle Buddhism advocates “Striking Seventh” every moment, by ceasing the Seventh Consciousness, the Dharmakaya reveals itself; once the Dharmakaya lives, “True Self” will be produced. Actually “True Self” is only a name, if you think that “True Self” is really True Self, then that is wrong, it should be “No-Self is Self”, that is True Self.