Is this true about Buddhism and its followers?
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I recently had a talk with my cousin, who's a Christian. I asked him for his impression of Buddhism or the Buddhist community (lay man).
He mentioned the following:
1) Buddhism talks about self-cultivation and seems to be rather selfish.
2) The general profile of Buddhists in SG are usually that of middle-age and elderly man or women. This shows that not many young Singaporeans want to learn more about Buddhism or become a Buddhist.
I explained to him that self-cultivation is about cultivating wisdom and compassion for all. Hence there is no place for selfishness.
The second point which he mentioned, well, I have to reluctantly agree. Though I cannot say for certain whether it is true that not many young Singaporeans want to learn more Buddhism or become a Buddhist.
Well, with or without connection to the second point, the fact that my acquaintances, friends and some family members are mostly Christians, does help to reinforce that impression in me.
Haiz, I don't know when I can get to see this scenario being common among the Buddhist community: Youths who show commitment, leadership and most of all, sincerity and concern for the present and future direction of Buddhist teachings. I'm looking out for Buddhist youth leaders and members who are constantly coming out with new ways to reach out to fellow Singaporeans who have not yet heard about Buddhism or have many mistaken views about Buddhism and its followers.
Buddhism, in this modern time, should not be a passive movement. Suka lai, suka go, we don't care. We have to show we want them. We have to show we care about their spiritual development as a fellow human being and Buddhist.
Buddha, please give me the wisdom and the compassion to help more to want to understand more about Buddhism.
Amituofo! -
Originally posted by Spnw07:
Precisely. Buddhism places as much emphasize on compassion and loving kindness for all beings as with self cultivation and wisdom. No where can you find a perfect example of compassion as a Bodhisattva.
[b]I recently had a talk with my cousin, who's a Christian. I asked him for his impression of Buddhism or the Buddhist community (lay man).
He mentioned the following:
1) Buddhism talks about self-cultivation and seems to be rather selfish.
2) The general profile of Buddhists in SG are usually that of middle-age and elderly man or women. This shows that not many young Singaporeans want to learn more about Buddhism or become a Buddhist.
I explained to him that self-cultivation is about cultivating wisdom and compassion for all. Hence there is no place for selfishness.The second point which he mentioned, well, I have to reluctantly agree. Though I cannot say for certain whether it is true that not many young Singaporeans want to learn more Buddhism or become a Buddhist.
Actually there are large youth Buddhist movements going on in Singapore. Even though most of the youth are not involved in Buddhism so far, there has been a growing number of youths in Buddhism as well as programs and activities to reach out for that particular age grp of people.
Well, with or without connection to the second point, the fact that my acquaintances, friends and some family members are mostly Christians, does help to reinforce that impression in me.
Haiz, I don't know when I can get to see this scenario being common among the Buddhist community: Youths who show commitment, leadership and most of all, sincerity and concern for the present and future direction of Buddhist teachings. I'm looking out for Buddhist youth leaders and members who are constantly coming out with new ways to reach out to fellow Singaporeans who have not yet heard about Buddhism or have many mistaken views about Buddhism and its followers.
Buddhism, in this modern time, should not be a passive movement. Suka lai, suka go, we don't care. We have to show we want them. We have to show we care about their spiritual development as a fellow human being and Buddhist.
Buddha, please give me the wisdom and the compassion to help more to want to understand more about Buddhism.
Amituofo!
There are also quite a number of youngsters in my dharma center, we have a youth class here, and we are planning to set up cell groups soon and to 'recruit' more young ppl. I think more Buddhist organisations in Singapore are realising this importance to reach out to the newer generation... as well as discussing dharma in ways relevant to their lives (at that particular age) so that they can be transformed by the teachings and learn more about dharma. -
I think cos most youngsters feel that Buddhism is "cheena" and "not cool" ba...
Most tend to associate Buddhism with old folks, conservative, traditional and old-fashion, burning joss-sticks etc...
Also, churches are more "aggressive" in recruiting pple.
Hence, i guess this explains why not many teenagers are into Buddhism ba... -
An Eternal Now, im juz wondering how this cell grp and recruitment would be structured and executed...Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Actually there are large youth Buddhist movements going on in Singapore. Even though most of the youth are not involved in Buddhism so far, there has been a growing number of youths in Buddhism as well as programs and activities to reach out for that particular age grp of people.
There are also quite a number of youngsters in my dharma center, we have a youth class here, and we are planning to set up cell groups soon and to 'recruit' more young ppl. I think more Buddhist organisations in Singapore are realising this importance to reach out to the newer generation... as well as discussing dharma in ways relevant to their lives (at that particular age) so that they can be transformed by the teachings and learn more about dharma.
Would it be something similar to Christianity? -
Not very sure yet at the moment as I am not very involved in the youth side... (I go adult side more often), but I think might be quite similar.Originally posted by Evangelion84:An Eternal Now, im juz wondering how this cell grp and recruitment would be structured and executed...
Would it be something similar to Christianity? -
Oic, thanks =)Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Not very sure yet at the moment as I am not very involved in the youth side... (I go adult side more often), but I think might be quite similar. -
1) Buddhism encourages buddhist to be compassionate, even loving and kind to all sentient beings which included your enemies. We cultivate so that we can have the wisdom to help others while being compassionate. If we are not wise, how to deal with situation wisely. If we are deluded, how can we help to alleviate suffering of others .
2) There are active buddhist youth group in singapore but buddhist groups do not actively "recruit members" like church does. There are some dynamics buddhist youth in singapore. I know of some who are involved in jam bands, composed their own songs etc.
Stereotyping us as boring, serious and mundance is not accurate. And not all buddhist group are cheena as there are buddhist group who cater to english-speaking buddhist.
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Buddhism doesn't encourage any thinking at all, just believe in it and practice.Originally posted by Isis:1) Buddhism encourages buddhist to be compassionate, even loving and kind to all sentient beings which included your enemies. We cultivate so that we can have the wisdom to help others while being compassionate. If we are not wise, how to deal with situation wisely. If we are deluded, how can we help to alleviate suffering of others .
2) There are active buddhist youth group in singapore but buddhist groups do not actively "recruit members" like church does. There are some dynamics buddhist youth in singapore. I know of some who are involved in jam bands, composed their own songs etc.
Stereotyping us as boring, serious and mundance is not accurate. And not all buddhist group are cheena as there are buddhist group who cater to english-speaking buddhist.
If you don't believe, then you shouldn't practice. I believe that's what the majority of Singaporeans understand about Buddhism. -
maybe try to visit SSA or SCA, the soka association, i think quite a lot of youths there also, you may wanna speak to the youths there to understand y they choose buddhism.
I think it will be a better approach and you will be able to get more different feedbacks, -
Tell your cousin that a lot of western people young and old are converting to buddhism because their monolithic religion failed to guide them in their daily lives. Then your cousin is suggesting that he join Xtian to be seen as hip and happening but really nothing substancial but mouthing of some words and listening to some stories about a bunch of people in the middle east which has no relation to his own life? Then its also a waste of his time.
buddhism has many views. I am free thinker but I believe religion is a ugly word because too many twisted people use it as a reason to wipe out other people.
Buddhism is just a name for something but in my opinion, I see it as a connection, an awareness, of spiritualism. There are open minded xtians who are spiritual and really do not have such biased views and they had overcome that divide that spilt people based on religion because these people saw beyond and understood the true meaning of the teachings - ultimately xtian, islam, whatever religion is a cultivation of oneself. It has always been this way, so your cousin need to get off his high horse and stop tell you Xtian is better than everyone else. Real Xtianity are not like what your cousin understand but its easier this way because most people cannot see beyond and they get scared when the boundaries are removed. BTW, when the Xtian talks about not praying to idols. Tell them the cross that they like to hang on are also a form of idolising.
Personal view about your cousin: He has his eye closed when he is looking at the highest mountain and he refused to open his eyes and see it and yet he insist on referring to the highest mountain as a ant hill. You cannot open his eye for him if he choose not to. Have you hear of the serenity prayer? Read it. Keep your eyes open. -
Originally posted by Spnw07:
Mine in blue.I recently had a talk with my cousin, who's a Christian. I asked him for his impression of Buddhism or the Buddhist community (lay man).
He mentioned the following:
1) Buddhism talks about self-cultivation and seems to be rather selfish.
This is probably due to the lack of understanding of his Buddhahood potential. Everyone has this ability to become a Buddha, however it takes perseverence, determination and courage to achieve that. From a certain angle, it would not be wrong for him to say that buddhism seems to be selfish. The usual outlook of what I observed in a norm buddhist temple, people are usually unfriendly looking, much of the opposite of what I see in church. In certain churches, they are so friendly that when they see that you are standing alone, they will approach you to check that whether are you a newbie whom couldn't find a cell group, or a total newbie to the church. They will be quick to strike up a conversation and play host to you. Just recently when I called a particular Vihara to ask for QnA, the nun told me coldly they only have chanting and nothing else and she was quick to hung me up. Until a few days later, I called the same Vihara, a different nun picked up and we had a healthy discussion for about 30 min on the phone.
2) The general profile of Buddhists in SG are usually that of middle-age and elderly man or women. This shows that not many young Singaporeans want to learn more about Buddhism or become a Buddhist.
I explained to him that self-cultivation is about cultivating wisdom and compassion for all. Hence there is no place for selfishness.
The second point which he mentioned, well, I have to reluctantly agree. Though I cannot say for certain whether it is true that not many young Singaporeans want to learn more Buddhism or become a Buddhist.
This problems is contributed by quite a few dimensions. One of it is that, especially perculiar in Chinese Mahayana, they would always want to protray that Buddhism is part of a Chinese culture. As one of the forummer said well, that youth sees Buddhism as a 'cheena' thing and may find that it is old-fashioned or whatnot and hence avoid Buddhism. Another dimension is that many buddhist organisations nowadays are doing too many ritualistic items, which I don't know is it with or without intention, has degraded Buddhism into a simply just another josssticks religion. You can do a simple observation yourself, probably you will discover people around the 20s, call themselves buddhists simply because they go to certain big or famous temple to pray, so they think that is what Buddhism is. From a self-discovery, self-help journey into praying for external help.
Another dimension would also be the lack of good image. When I was in my poly, even till now, usually buddhists would be more sloppily dressed as compare to church-goers. This image would probably much giving people an inferior impression on Buddhism. Of course not saying must wear branded and trendy but buddhists should take care of their own personal grooming.
Well, with or without connection to the second point, the fact that my acquaintances, friends and some family members are mostly Christians, does help to reinforce that impression in me.
Haiz, I don't know when I can get to see this scenario being common among the Buddhist community: Youths who show commitment, leadership and most of all, sincerity and concern for the present and future direction of Buddhist teachings. I'm looking out for Buddhist youth leaders and members who are constantly coming out with new ways to reach out to fellow Singaporeans who have not yet heard about Buddhism or have many mistaken views about Buddhism and its followers.
Probably you can start this movement from yourself. Everyone is a leader in Buddhism. You share whatever you know. Those that you don't know, you go and find out, then share again! This is how multiplying effect should be done. Come to think back to the times when I met the christians when I was in poly, I doubt they were strong in their theology, just that back then I wasn't smart enough to throw harder questions that's all. All it takes is the genuinity, sincerity and perseverence to convince people for your cause. Putting doctrines aside, I would have really prefer christians over buddhists as you see that they have the zest in the things they do. Buddhism somehow give people the impression that they should detach, probably it should be said to detach what should be detach and not to detach as a total. Buddhism even till now gives me the impression of sloppiness.
Buddhism, in this modern time, should not be a passive movement. Suka lai, suka go, we don't care. We have to show we want them. We have to show we care about their spiritual development as a fellow human being and Buddhist.
Movements would much depend on the organisation. I find that one of the things that Buddhism would have wasted a lot of money is building over-elaborated statues. As you can see for churches, they would have build modern and sophiscated auditoriums for their sermons and prayers and would have used the money to fund the church in grooming more workers to do outreach. Another passive movement is that there is a very mistaken message that has been embedded in everyone's head, and that is all religions are the same. If all religions are the same, then go tell the other religions that they are the same! Rather then confused the already-confused buddhists that all religions are the same! Even the AEN here can say Jesus is bodhisattva. So if Jesus is bodhisattva, then we should be happy for the christians as it would have made no difference to whether one follows Guanyin or Jesus anymore.
Buddha, please give me the wisdom and the compassion to help more to want to understand more about Buddhism.
Compassion is the drive for one to help others while Wisdom is the key for you to know when the help is indeed applicable. Buddha would probably be unable to give you any of these as these are what we acquire along our spiritual path by practice the Dhamma.
Amituofo!
Homage to Lord Sakyamuni Buddha -
ok this is my input. No blind belief. Free-will to believe in anythings you want and you are accountable for what you believe.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:Buddhism doesn't encourage any thinking at all, just believe in it and practice.
If you don't believe, then you shouldn't practice. I believe that's what the majority of Singaporeans understand about Buddhism.
of course u are entitled and accountable for what you believe. -
Buddhism is as simple or as profound (complicated) as you want it to be, as you are capable, of handling it.
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Some Buddhist might have misinterpreted the meaning of what is detachment, thus malpractice.Originally posted by yamizi:Probably you can start this movement from yourself. Everyone is a leader in Buddhism. You share whatever you know. Those that you don't know, you go and find out, then share again! This is how multiplying effect should be done. Come to think back to the times when I met the christians when I was in poly, I doubt they were strong in their theology, just that back then I wasn't smart enough to throw harder questions that's all. All it takes is the genuinity, sincerity and perseverence to convince people for your cause. Putting doctrines aside, I would have really prefer christians over buddhists as you see that they have the zest in the things they do. Buddhism somehow give people the impression that they should detach, probably it should be said to detach what should be detach and not to detach as a total. Buddhism even till now gives me the impression of sloppiness.
People tend to judge things based on the surface. Some people might have dressed simple or sloppy ( my definition is not trendy ), but deep inside, they are contented, happy and have metta for others. -
Which therefore becomes kind of selfish religion, because they are contented with themselves. Nothing wrong with it but probably fail to consider what would have the others see as well. Of course it is impossible to please everyone, but this is a materialistic society that we are living in, so to keep up with time, there are secular things that we have to consider about.Originally posted by Isis:Some Buddhist might have misinterpreted the meaning of what is detachment, thus malpractice.
People tend to judge things based on the surface. Some people might have dressed simple or sloppy ( my definition is not trendy ), but deep inside, they are contented, happy and have metta for others. -
May i ask what selfishness have you seen in them being contented? People who are selfish can be not content and people who are content can be selfish.Originally posted by yamizi:Which therefore becomes kind of selfish religion, because they are contented with themselves. Nothing wrong with it but probably fail to consider what would have the others see as well. Of course it is impossible to please everyone, but this is a materialistic society that we are living in, so to keep up with time, there are secular things that we have to consider about.
I do see those contented Buddhist putting their heart and soul, sweat and blood in helping spread the Buddhism.
And are you generalizing ? -
errr... ignore him... you can't do much good unless you are contented in yourself, with yourself... compassion is outward looking, you might be contented in yourself and with yourself, you can be discontented for others, that is known as compassion, to be discontented for others... to want others to come to a state of contentment like you.Originally posted by Isis:May i ask what selfishness have you seen in them being contented? People who are selfish can be not content and people who are content can be selfish.
I do see those contented Buddhist putting their heart and soul, sweat and blood in helping spread the Buddhism.
And are you generalizing ? -
on the contrary, i find that there are more and more young Buddhists
tell him dont be a frog in the well lar -
I am citing from the buddhists that I had met. And in this manner would be more of how they look like.Originally posted by Isis:May i ask what selfishness have you seen in them being contented? People who are selfish can be not content and people who are content can be selfish.
I do see those contented Buddhist putting their heart and soul, sweat and blood in helping spread the Buddhism.
And are you generalizing ?
How they spread will be another total issue altogether. -
Originally posted by yamizi:
My comment are in blue.
The usual outlook of what I observed in a norm buddhist temple, people are usually unfriendly looking, much of the opposite of what I see in church. In certain churches, they are so friendly that when they see that you are standing alone, they will approach you to check that whether are you a newbie whom couldn't find a cell group, or a total newbie to the church. They will be quick to strike up a conversation and play host to you. Just recently when I called a particular Vihara to ask for QnA, the nun told me coldly they only have chanting and nothing else and she was quick to hung me up. Until a few days later, I called the same Vihara, a different nun picked up and we had a healthy discussion for about 30 min on the phone.
I'm afraid I have to agree with you, that this is my general impression of most temples and any staff (including venerable monks and nuns). Sad, but true, whenever I ask any half-taoist, half buddhist friends about their impressions of temples and the monastic order. Haiz...Originally posted by yamizi:
I have similar observations too, I'm afraid.
You can do a simple observation yourself, probably you will discover people around the 20s, call themselves buddhists simply because they go to certain big or famous temple to pray, so they think that is what Buddhism is. From a self-discovery, self-help journey into praying for external help.
Another dimension would also be the lack of good image. When I was in my poly, even till now, usually buddhists would be more sloppily dressed as compare to church-goers. This image would probably much giving people an inferior impression on Buddhism. Of course not saying must wear branded and trendy but buddhists should take care of their own personal grooming.Originally posted by yamizi:
Buddhists, out there, hear there? We can do more, much more to reach out to people like yamizi.
Probably you can start this movement from yourself. Everyone is a leader in Buddhism. You share whatever you know. Those that you don't know, you go and find out, then share again! This is how multiplying effect should be done.
Come to think back to the times when I met the christians when I was in poly, I doubt they were strong in their theology, just that back then I wasn't smart enough to throw harder questions that's all. All it takes is the genuinity, sincerity and perseverence to convince people for your cause. Putting doctrines aside, I would have really prefer christians over buddhists as you see that they have the zest in the things they do. Buddhism somehow give people the impression that they should detach, probably it should be said to detach what should be detach and not to detach as a total. Buddhism even till now gives me the impression of sloppiness.
Buddhism talks about detachment, not indifference. The human touch and warmth must be there, it has to be felt by the public so that they are willing to come a bit closer to us. Or else, do we want dharma talks to be attended mainly by Buddhists or any person from other religions, or free thinkers who come merely to see and hear what is being taught so that they can refute them when coming into contact with those who might be starting to get interested in Buddhism?
Yamizi, you pointed out my main goal of wanting to do something to bring about the multiplying effect in reaching out and guiding members of the public who has not yet heard of Buddhism or start to develop some interest in Buddhism. Even those who are not interested will gradually be able to want to know more if we are passionate, wise and practical in starting this 'revolution' or 'momentum'.Originally posted by yamizi:
Again, quite true. I wouldn't say Jesus is bodhisattva, as for those who have not yet have proper education and practice of Buddhism, the statement would indeed lead non-believers to think all religions are the same and and the same time indirectly, unintentionally, prompting more youths and adults alike to stay happy with their own beliefs and religions. The worse part is really they start to close their mind to everything they may get to hear about Buddhism when such a mentality gets more and more entrenched in Singapore and around the world.
Movements would much depend on the organisation. I find that one of the things that Buddhism would have wasted a lot of money is building over-elaborated statues. As you can see for churches, they would have build modern and sophiscated auditoriums for their sermons and prayers and would have used the money to fund the church in grooming more workers to do outreach. Another passive movement is that there is a very mistaken message that has been embedded in everyone's head, and that is all religions are the same. If all religions are the same, then go tell the other religions that they are the same! Rather then confused the already-confused buddhists that all religions are the same! Even the AEN here can say Jesus is bodhisattva. So if Jesus is bodhisattva, then we should be happy for the christians as it would have made no difference to whether one follows Guanyin or Jesus anymore.Originally posted by yamizi:
It's true that the Buddha cannot give me compassion or wisdom, as it is not something material and like you've said, something I should cultivate and bring out from within.
Compassion is the drive for one to help others while Wisdom is the key for you to know when the help is indeed applicable. Buddha would probably be unable to give you any of these as these are what we acquire along our spiritual path by practice the Dhamma.
However, when Buddhists say this, I think they are reminding themselves that Buddha is always with them and they need not feel alone, tired and overwhelmed in the path of spiritual cultivation. It is always good to be mindful of the Buddha's virtues, to constantly reflect on those virtues with the intention to encourage oneself to strive to be better, to be eventually become a Buddha.
Sui2 yuan2 (follow the flow of conditions) doesn't mean sui2 bo1 zu2 liu2 (follow wherever the wind blows).
Amituofo! Thank you for taking the time to share so much about your views and observations about buddhism. To recognise the problem is the first step. The second step would be addressing the problem. -
Soka, actually has its roots based in Japan and chants nam myo hyo renge kyo (the title of the Flower sutra) as the main prayer practice for all its practioners.Originally posted by sLeEpWaLkErInG:maybe try to visit SSA or SCA, the soka association, i think quite a lot of youths there also, you may wanna speak to the youths there to understand y they choose buddhism.
I think it will be a better approach and you will be able to get more different feedbacks,
In fact, I first heard about Soka when I was in primary school, cos my schoolmate's mom was and still is an active Soka member.
I'm actually concerned about mainstream Buddhism, as in Thervada and Mahayana schools for example. -
Actually, I have the intention to borrow the cell group model from Christianity and modify it to suit different population profiles.Originally posted by Evangelion84:An Eternal Now, im juz wondering how this cell grp and recruitment would be structured and executed...
Would it be something similar to Christianity?
We need to recognise the important need to reach out to more youths, to introduce them to Buddhism, and share our knowledge of dharma with them, guide them as fellow peers like what Christian cell groups do.
The focus is on human interaction. For without that, what kind of Buddhism are you practising? Close door buddhism? Waiting for people to come, high and mighty Buddhism? -
It's good to hear from a free-thinker on this issue. I do have similar views as you on the word 'religion' being used by the wrong type of people for what is mostly selfish and cruel motives.Originally posted by mistyblue:Tell your cousin that a lot of western people young and old are converting to buddhism because their monolithic religion failed to guide them in their daily lives. Then your cousin is suggesting that he join Xtian to be seen as hip and happening but really nothing substancial but mouthing of some words and listening to some stories about a bunch of people in the middle east which has no relation to his own life? Then its also a waste of his time.
buddhism has many views. I am free thinker but I believe religion is a ugly word because too many twisted people use it as a reason to wipe out other people.
Buddhism is just a name for something but in my opinion, I see it as a connection, an awareness, of spiritualism. There are open minded xtians who are spiritual and really do not have such biased views and they had overcome that divide that spilt people based on religion because these people saw beyond and understood the true meaning of the teachings - ultimately xtian, islam, whatever religion is a cultivation of oneself. It has always been this way, so your cousin need to get off his high horse and stop tell you Xtian is better than everyone else. Real Xtianity are not like what your cousin understand but its easier this way because most people cannot see beyond and they get scared when the boundaries are removed. BTW, when the Xtian talks about not praying to idols. Tell them the cross that they like to hang on are also a form of idolising.
Personal view about your cousin: He has his eye closed when he is looking at the highest mountain and he refused to open his eyes and see it and yet he insist on referring to the highest mountain as a ant hill. You cannot open his eye for him if he choose not to. Have you hear of the serenity prayer? Read it. Keep your eyes open.
My cousin, well...How he thinks of Buddhism is really not something I should be too bothered about, but as a Buddhist, I should be concerned as to what I can do to help more people understand about Buddhism and its benefits to all living beings, regardless of whether they want to become a Buddhist in the future.
I hope one day you too will understand more about Buddhism without having to feel uneasy that you are betraying your own free-thinker belief. -
Hi, not saying we can't gather ideas from Soka, but like to mention that Soka Gakkai is not recognised in mainstream Buddhism as well as this forum. For this pls read Nichiren BuddhismOriginally posted by sLeEpWaLkErInG:maybe try to visit SSA or SCA, the soka association, i think quite a lot of youths there also, you may wanna speak to the youths there to understand y they choose buddhism.
I think it will be a better approach and you will be able to get more different feedbacks, -
Seriously i dun feel the need to "recruit" followers...
it's either u believe it or u dun...
if u dun have the heart to believe it, no matter hw hard ppl try to talk u into it, u still won't believe it.
hw often do u see budhist teachings in english language?
look at hw many families r communicatin in english and compare it to the books of budhist teachings and the christian bible, which is easier to read? chinese characters or english words?
it may be true dat in church when u're lost ppl come n tok to u, does dat mean their religion taught them dat? or does it mean dat their social skill is better?
u can't compare them like them.
i'm a budhist and i'm proud of it.