How to get rid of lust effectively?
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I do not see a need to get rid of lust as long as you can control it, as long as nobody, including yourself, is harmed in the process.
What I think is, too much of anything is bad, including lust. In moderation, I do not think lust is a problem. In fact, it can make your life more... ...meaningful
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It is possible and does not require damaging the brain, nor does damaging the brain result in the destruction of the original cause of lust -- the illusion of duality. And it is also not a matter of disciplining the mind, but seeing through the illusion.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:Because lust is part and parcel of human nature and thus cannot be truly removed without damaging the human brain. It is like drawing a blade and trying to cut a stream of water. Yes, discipline aids oneself in controlling the lustful thoughts but sooner or later people will fall prey to it. -
The problem with lust is that we imagine that samsara will give us satisfaction, whereas the true nature of samsara is dukkha -- suffering and unsatisfactory, as well as being impermanent and empty.Originally posted by mahawarrior:I do not see a need to get rid of lust as long as you can control it, as long as nobody, including yourself, is harmed in the process.
What I think is, too much of anything is bad, including lust. In moderation, I do not think lust is a problem. In fact, it can make your life more... ...meaningful
Also see http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma5/sex.html -
If we are unsatisfied, go on and satisfy it.
If we still want more, then go have more.
I don't see the problem with this 'forever unsatisfied' thing. Yes, after every meal, it's only a matter of time before we get hungry again. So we just eat whenever we are hungry, what's wrong with that?
Fine, if you are tired of being forever unsatisfied and want to end this 'desire to eat', nothing wrong. But I see nothing wrong too with wanting wants, so long as you do not use unscrupulous means to get what you want.
Besides, I don't think one is always unsatisfied. When we are hungry, we eat. When we are full, we are satisfied. Yes, we'll get hungry again, and we'll want to eat more. So? Just eat! Why curb this desire or 'lust'?
After all these years, all I still see is just theories and more theories which cannot convince me why I should get rid of desires (lust) and get out of Samsara. Even if I am convinced that life holds much impermanance and suffering, I remain unconvinced that the dharma can fully get me out.
Sorry that I'm getting a bit off-topic here... -
"There is pleasure when a sore is scratched, But to be without sores is more pleasurable still. Just so, there are pleasures in worldly desires, But to be without desires is more pleasurable still." - NagarjunaOriginally posted by mahawarrior:After all these years, all I still see is just theories and more theories which cannot convince me why I should get rid of desires (lust) and get out of Samsara. Even if I am convinced that life holds much impermanance and suffering, I remain unconvinced that the dharma can fully get me out.
You are unconvinced that the dharma can fully get you out of sufferings, cos you havent understood the Four Noble Truths, especially what is the cause of suffering & the path to the end of suffering.
First, we have to understand that 'desire' and 'lust' has much deeper implications than we usually think and the goal of practice is to treat the root cause of suffering by overcoming this root ignorance. So the goal of Buddhism is not just to destroy the ability to desire in the conventional sense like desiring to eat or get things done -- that is not the goal of dharma. Dharma is not about destroying every single emotion by suppressing them, but by revealing the true nature of each moment of our experience and thoughts, & uncovering the non-dual true nature of reality and thus going beyond dualistic relationship.
Enlightened beings may well have desires (such as desiring for the liberation of all sentient beings), but they will never be attached cos they have overcome dualistic relationship.
It is the fundamental subject-object split that we are stuck in, the belief in a separate self & the objective world we can manipulate/seek/avert, or be 'against'. All negative & delusional emotions (such as lust/craving, anger, ignorance, pride & jealousy) have their cause in this fundamental illusion.
Even for craving, why are we constantly in a state of dissatisfaction & craving, never to be contented? Because of this subject-object split, & therefore the illusion of the 'subject' (me) trying to get the 'object', both of which is an illusion but nevertheless persistently real due to our karmic propensities, & we fail to see reality as it is.
From: The nature of the separate self, duality
More from the rinpoche:Originally posted by An Eternal Now:...These paths all have the common aim of seeking to overcome the problem that arouse when the individual entered into dualism, developing a spurious 'subjective self' or 'ego' that experiences the world as separate from itself, external and objective, and which continually tries to manipulate that world in order to obtain satisfaction and security. In truth, one will never manage to attain satisfaction and security this way, because the cause of suffering and dissatisfaction is none other than the fundamental sense of incompleteness that is the inevitable consequence of being in the state of dualism - and, moreover, all the seemingly external phenomena on which we try to base our satisfaction and security are impermanent.
The Buddha was a totally realized being who manifested a human birth in India in the fifth century B.C.E. in order to be able to teach other human beings by means of his words and the example of his life. Suffering is something very concrete, which everyone knows and wants to avoid if possible, and the Buddha therefore began his teaching by talking about it in his famous formulation of the Four Noble Truths.
The first truth draws our attention to the fact that we suffer, pointing out the existence of the basic dissatisfaction inherent in our condition; the second truth explains the cause of dissatisfaction, which is the dualistic state and the unquenchable thirst (or desire) inherent in it: the subject reifies its objects and tries to grasp them by any means, and this thirst (or desire) in turn affirms and sustains the illusory existence of the subject as an entity separate from the integrated wholeness of the universe. The third truth teaches that suffering will cease if dualism is overcome and reintegration achieved, so that we no longer feel separate from the plenitude of the universe. Finally the fourth truth explains that there is a Path that leads to the cessation of suffering, which is the one described by the rest of the Buddhist teachings...
~ Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche
Also compare with Dharma Dan's explanation of the Four Noble Truths in All About Buddhism ~ For Non-Buddhists and Buddhists
"This is the open secret, that everyone can discover for themselves: we live our lives, as it were, inside out, conceiving ourselves as an 'I' that we take to be absolutely separate from a world that we regard as external, and trying to manipulate that world in order to achieve satisfaction. But as long as we remain in the dualistic state, our experience will continue to be characterized by an underlying sense of lack, fear, anxiety, and dissatisfaction."
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“...The universe is thus understood as the spontaneously arising play of the energy of the primordial state, and may be enjoyed as such by an individual who remains integrated with his or her essential inherent condition, in the self-liberating, self-perfected state, the state of Dzogchen.
But if, through fundamental misperception of reality, the individual enters into the confusion of dualism, primordial consciousness, which is in fact the source of all manifestation (even of dualistic consciousness and, in fact, of all phenomena), itself becomes obscured. The individual’s deluded mind then mistakes the manifestations of its own pure, innate primordial awareness for an external reality existing separately from itself, which it endlessly, and ultimately unsuccessfully, attempts to manipulate, trying in vain to bring an end to the continual underlying sense of dissatisfaction and unease which is the inevitable experience of the obscuration of pure awareness. The experience of underlying dissatisfaction arises with a deluded mind, continues, no matter how ‘successful’ the individual becomes in dealing with his or her world in materialistic terms, until the individual regains the experience of the primordial state.
All the various passions arise from the fundamental misperception of reality just described, and the passions once they have arisen continually condition the individual into dualism, deepening the individual’s sense of confusion about the nature of reality. This is why samsara, the endless round of conditioned existence, is often described in the teachings as being a ‘vicious cycle’."
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This split, this duality of 'I' and the 'world' is in the first place an illusion. There is no 'self', and neither is there a world 'out there' -- there is just One Reality as the manifestation of the One Mind, our Buddha Nature. The universe is just a manifestation of our true nature that is luminous-emptiness inseparable.
Therefore practice is not just to overcome short term emotions like 'desires', and so on. But to CURE all sufferings we must treat it at its root -- the root is the delusion of 'I'.
As my Master said in http://www.jenchen.org.sg/vol8no1a.htm --
The human being’s seventh mind-consciousness is the “I”. Because of “I”, it gives rise to “my”. Because of “me”, it gives rise to self-attachment, followed by attachment of perception such as “I like it this way …” or “I like it that way …” In the end, people become attached to everything, be it right or wrong. This is the root cause of distress and suffering. “Ignorance” means darkness and without brightness. People lose their temper because of ignorance. If we investigate the reason for being angry, at the beginning most people will blame it on others. On further investigation, we will discover that the anger stems from self-ignorance. When we have understood this principle, we will realize that these are due to this “I” (seventh mind-consciousness, transient-invisible body). Therefore if we allow it (the ignorance) to further develop and lead according to the wishes of this “I”, we will certainly descend to a lower realm of life, because the root of this “I” is ignorance. -
More from All About Buddhism ~ For Non-Buddhists and Buddhists:
Sharing more detailed, indepth understanding of the Four Noble Truths. You may want to read TRUTH NUMBER TWO: “DESIRE” in details.
Following taken from 'Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha', written by Dharma Dan (source: http://www.interactivebuddha.com/mctb.html).9. THE FOUR NOBLE TRUTHS
The Four Noble Truths, suffering, its cause, its end, and the path that leads to its end, are fundamental to the teachings of the Buddha. He was fond of summarizing his whole teaching in terms of them. Actually, when asked to be really concise, he would just say the first and third: suffering and the end of suffering. This was what he taught. Like the other little lists here, they have great profundity on many levels and are worth exploring in depth.
TRUTH NUMBER ONE: SUFFERING
The first truth is the truth of suffering. Hey, didn't we just see that in the Three Characteristics? Yes! Isn't that great! We also just saw it in The Three Trainings Revisited. There must have been something important about it for it to start off something called the Four Noble Truths that is not immediately obvious. Why do we practice? Suffering, that's why! It is just that simple. Why do we do anything? Suffering!
Plenty of people balk at this, and say that they do lots of things because of reasons other than suffering. I suppose that to be really correct I should add in ignorance and habit, but these are intimately connected to suffering. This is worth investigating in depth. Perhaps there is something more to this first truth that they may have missed on first inspection, as it is a deep and subtle teaching. Actually, to understand this first truth is to understand the whole of the spiritual path, so take the time to investigate it.
The basic gist of the truth from a relative point of view is that we want things to be other than they are, and this causes pain. We want things that are nice to be permanent, we want to get what we want and avoid what we don't want. We wish bad things would go faster than they do, and these are all contrary to reality. We all die, get sick, have conflicts, and constantly seem to be running around either trying to get something (greed), get away from something (hatred), or tune out from reality all together (delusion). We are never perfectly happy with things just as they are. These are the traditional, relative ways in which suffering is explained, but these definitions can only take us so far.
At the most fundamental level, the level that is the most useful for doing insight practices, we wish desperately that there was some separate, permanent self, and we spend huge amounts of time doing our best to prop up this illusion. In order to do this, we habitually ignore lots of useful information about our reality and give our mental impressions and simplifications of reality much more importance than they are necessarily due. It is this illusion that adds a problematic element to the normal and understandable ways in which we go about trying to be happy. We constantly struggle with reality because we misunderstand it, i.e. because reality misunderstands itself.
“So what's new?” one might say. Good point! It isn't new, is it? This has been the whole of our life! The big question is “Is there some understanding which makes a difference?” Yes, or we wouldn't be bothering with all of this spirituality stuff. Somewhere down in our being there is a little voice that cries, “There is another way!” We can find this other way.
Connecting with the truth of suffering can actually be very motivating for spiritual practice. Most traditional talks on the Buddha's teachings begin with this. More than just being motivating for spiritual practice, tuning into suffering is spiritual practice! Many people start meditating and then get frustrated with how much suffering and pain they experience, never knowing that they are actually starting to understand something. They cling to the ideal that insight practices will produce peace and bliss and yet much of what they find is suffering. They donÂ’t realize that things on the cushion tend to get worse before they get better. Thus, they reject the very truths they must deeply understand to obtain the peace they were looking for and thus get nowhere. They reject their own valid insights that they have obtained through valid practice. I suspect that this is one of the greatest and most common stumbling blocks on the spiritual path.
There is a flip side to suffering which can help, and that is compassion, the wish for there to not be suffering. Wherever there is suffering there is compassion, though most of the time somewhat twisted by the confused logic of the process of ego. More on this in a bit, but it leads directly to the second Noble Truth, the cause of suffering.
TRUTH NUMBER TWO: “DESIRE”
The Second Noble Truth is that the cause of suffering is desire, also rendered as craving or attachment. We want things to be other than they are because we perceive the world through the odd logic of the process of ego, through the illusion of the split of the perceiver and the perceived. We might say, “Of course we want things to be great and not unpleasant! What do you expect?” The problem isn't actually quite in the desire for things to be good and not be bad in the way that we might think; it is, in fact, just a bit subtler than that.
This is a really slippery business, and many people can get all into craving for non-craving and desiring non-attachment. This can be useful if it is done wisely and it is actually all we have to work with. If common sense is ignored, however, desiring non-attachment may produce neurotic, self-righteous, repressed ascetics instead of balanced, kind meditators. A tour of any monastery or spiritual community will likely expose you to clear examples of both sides of this delicate balance. So, don't make too much of a problem out of the fact that it seems that one must desire something in order to seek it. This paradox will resolve itself if we are able to experience reality in this moment clearly.
“Craving,” “attachment,” and “desire” are some of the most dangerous words that can be used to describe something that is actually much more fundamental than these seem to indicate. The Buddha did talk about these conventional forms of suffering, but he also talked about the fundamental suffering that comes from some deep longing for a refuge that involves a separate or permanent self. We imagine that such a self will be a refuge, and so we desire such a self, we try to make certain sensations into such a self, we cling to the fundamental notion that such a self can exist as a stable entity and that this will somehow help. The side effects of this manifest in all sorts of additions to mind states and emotions that are not helpful, but these are side effects and not the root that cause of suffering that the Buddha was pointing to.
As stated earlier, a helpful concept here is compassion, a heart aspect of the practice and reality related to kindness. You see, wherever there is desire there is suffering, and wherever there is suffering there is compassion, the desire for the end of suffering. You can actually experience this. So obviously there is some really close relationship between suffering, desire and compassion. This is heavy but good stuff and worth investigating. -
(continued from previous post)
We might conceive of this as compassion having gotten caught in a loop, the loop of the illusion of duality. This is sort of like a dog’s tail chasing itself. Pain and pleasure, suffering and satisfaction always seem to be “over there.” Thus, when pleasant sensations arise, there is a constant, compassionate, deluded attempt to get over there to the other side of the imagined split. This is fundamental attraction. You would think that we would just stop imagining there is a split, but somehow that is not what happens. We keep perpetuating the sense of a split even as we try to bridge it, and so we suffer. When unpleasant sensations arise, there is an attempt to get away from over there, to widen the imagined split. This will never work, because it doesn’t actually exist, but the way we hold our minds as we try to get away from that side is painful. When boring or unpleasant sensations arise, there is the attempt to tune out all together and forget the whole thing, to try to pretend that the sensations on the other side of the split are not there. This is fundamental ignorance and it perpetuates the process, as it is by ignoring aspects of our sensate reality that the illusion of a split is created in the first place.
These strict definitions of fundamental attraction, aversion and ignorance are very important, particularly for when I discuss the various models of the stages of enlightenment. Given the illusion, it seems that somehow these mental reactions will help in a way that will be permanent. Remember that the only thing that will fundamentally help is to understand the Three Characteristics to the degree that makes the difference, and the Three Characteristics are manifesting right here.
Remember how it was stated above that suffering motivates everything we do? We could also say that everything we do is motivated by compassion, which is part of the fundamentally empty nature of reality. That doesnÂ’t mean that everything we do is skillful; that is a whole different issue.
Compassion is a very good thing, especially when it involves one's self and all beings. It is sort of the flip side of the Second Noble Truth. The whole problem is that “misdirected” compassion, compassion that is filtered through the process of ego and its related habits, can produce enormous suffering and often does. It is easy to think of many examples of people searching for happiness in the strangest of places and by doing the strangest of things. Just pick up any newspaper. The take-home message is to search for happiness where you are actually likely to find it.
We might say that compassion is the ultimate aspect of desire, or think of compassion and desire on a continuum. The more wisdom or understanding of interconnectedness there is behind our intentions and actions, the more they reflect compassion and the more the results will turn out well. The more greed, hatred and delusion or lack of understanding of interconnectedness there is behind our intentions and actions, the more they reflect desire and the more suffering there will likely be.
This is sometimes referred to as the “Law of Karma,” where karma is a word that has to do with our intentions and actions. Some people can get all caught up in specifics of this that cannot possibly be known, like speculating that if we kill a bug we will come back as a bug and be squished. Don't. Cause and effect, also called interdependence, is just too imponderably complex. Just use this general concept to look honestly at what you want, why, and precisely how you know this. Examine what the consequences of what you do and think might be for yourself and everyone, and then take responsibility for those consequences. It's a tall order and an important practice to engage in, but don't get too obsessive about it. Remember the simplicity of the first training, training in kindness, generosity, honesty and clarity, and gain balance and wisdom from the other two trainings as you go.
Sometimes looking into suffering and desire can be overwhelming. Life can sometimes be extremely hard. In these moments, try looking into the heart side of the equation, compassion and kindness. Connect with the part of your heart that just wishes the suffering would end and feel that deeply, especially as it manifests in the body. Just this can be profound practice. There are also lots of other good techniques for cultivating a spaciousness of heart that can bear anything, such as formal loving-kindness practices (see Sharon SalzburgÂ’s excellent Loving-kindness, The Revolutionary Art of Happiness). Finding them and practicing them can make the spiritual path much more bearable and pleasant, and this can make it more likely that we will be able to persevere, gain deep insights, be able to integrate them into our lives, and use them to benefit others.
The take-home message is to take the desire to be happy and free of suffering and use its energy to do skillful things that can actually make this happen, rather than getting caught in old unexamined patterns of searching for happiness where you know you will not find it. The Three Trainings are skillful and can inform the whole of our life. By following them we may come to the end of many forms of suffering and be in a much better position to help others do the same.
TRUTH NUMBER THREE: THE END OF SUFFERING
This brings us nicely to the Third Noble Truth, the end of suffering. Now, as noted before, there are three types of suffering pertaining to the scope of each of the three trainings. Traditionally, the Buddha talked about the end of suffering as relating to mastering the third training and thus becoming highly enlightened. The first point is that it can be done and is done today by meditators like you from many spiritual traditions. Yes, there are enlightened people walking around, and not just a rare few that have spent 20 years in a cave in Tibet. This is really important to understand and have faith in. The other point is that with the end of fundamental desire, which we will render here as the end of compassion and reality being filtered through the odd logic of the process of ego, there is the end of fundamental suffering. That's it. Done is what has to be done. Gone, gone, gone beyond, and all of that. All beings can do it, and there is, to make bit of a mystical joke, no time like the present.
Now, it must be said that the Buddha also praised those who had mastered the other two trainings and thus eliminated what suffering could be eliminated by those methods. Even very enlightened beings can benefit from mastering the concentration states. However, there are some complex and difficult issues related to eliminating all of the ordinary suffering in the world and thus related to mastering the first training, which is an endless undertaking. It is because of this particular issue that such teachings as the Bodhisattva Vow arose, and I will deal with these complexities towards the end of this book.
TRUTH NUMBER FOUR: THE PATH
The Fourth Noble Truth is the Noble Eightfold Path that leads to suffering's final end. Another list! Hopefully you have come to like these little lists by now, and so one more will hopefully be seen as another manageable little guide on how to find the end of suffering. Luckily, we have already seen the whole of the Noble Eightfold Path in other parts of some of the other lists, and it is summarized in the Three Trainings of morality, concentration and wisdom.
The morality section is just broken down into three specifics: skillful action, skillful speech and skillful livelihood. Skillful means conducive to the end of suffering for us and for all other living beings. Be kind, honest, clear and compassionate in your whole life, in your actions, speech and work. Notice that nothing is excluded here. The more of our lives we integrate with the spiritual path, the better. Simple to remember and also a powerful guide.
The concentration section contains three things we saw in the Five Spiritual Faculties and the Seven Factors of Enlightenment: skillful energy, skillful concentration, and skillful mindfulness.
The wisdom section has the two last parts of the path: skillful thought or intention and skillful understanding or wisdom. These two are often rendered in different ways, but the meaning is the same: understand the truth of your experience and aspire to kindness and wisdom in your thoughts and deeds. Again, simple but powerful. -
Which is why, in Diamond Sutra,Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Enlightened beings may well have desires (such as desiring for the liberation of all sentient beings), but they will never be attached cos they have overcome dualistic relationship. [/i]
(3) "Good Subhuti," answered the Buddha, "whenever someone announces, 'I want to follow the Bodhisattva Path because I want to save all sentient beings; and it does not matter whether they are creatures which are formed in a womb or hatched from an egg; whether their life cycles are as observable as those of garden worms, insects and butterflies; or whether they appear as miraculously as mushrooms or gods; or whether they are capable of profound thoughts or of no thoughts at all, for I vow to lead every individual being to Nirvana; and not until they are all safely there will I reap my reward and enter Nirvana!' then, Subhuti, you should remind such a vow-taker that even if such uncountable numbers of beings were so liberated, in reality no beings would have been liberated. A Bodhisattva does not cling to the illusion of separate individuality or ego-entity or personal identification. In reality, there is no "I" who liberates and no "they" who are liberated. -
It is impossible, we know that as a scientific fact.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:It is possible and does not require damaging the brain, nor does damaging the brain result in the destruction of the original cause of lust -- the illusion of duality. And it is also not a matter of disciplining the mind, but seeing through the illusion. -
Hi, sorry to say this but your theory is exactly the cause of suffering.Originally posted by mahawarrior:If we are unsatisfied, go on and satisfy it.
If we still want more, then go have more.
I don't see the problem with this 'forever unsatisfied' thing. Yes, after every meal, it's only a matter of time before we get hungry again. So we just eat whenever we are hungry, what's wrong with that?
Fine, if you are tired of being forever unsatisfied and want to end this 'desire to eat', nothing wrong. But I see nothing wrong too with wanting wants, so long as you do not use unscrupulous means to get what you want.
Besides, I don't think one is always unsatisfied. When we are hungry, we eat. When we are full, we are satisfied. Yes, we'll get hungry again, and we'll want to eat more. So? Just eat! Why curb this desire or 'lust'?
After all these years, all I still see is just theories and more theories which cannot convince me why I should get rid of desires (lust) and get out of Samsara. Even if I am convinced that life holds much impermanance and suffering, I remain unconvinced that the dharma can fully get me out.
Sorry that I'm getting a bit off-topic here... -
There is absolutely no scientific fact that says it is impossible.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:It is impossible, we know that as a scientific fact.
On the other hand, Buddhism is the scientific path to the end of suffering. -
No offence, AEN. But sometimes, I think not everybody may be willing to read long quotes that are full of technical words and so academic, especially if a person may be already uninterested in the first place.
Just take me as a beginner. An absolute beginner who know absolutely nothing about Buddhism. -
OK.Originally posted by mahawarrior:No offence, AEN. But sometimes, I think not everybody may be willing to read long quotes that are full of technical words and so academic, especially if a person may be already uninterested in the first place.
Just take me as a beginner. An absolute beginner who know absolutely nothing about Buddhism.
Let me summarise in as little words as possible:
The problem of desire is not with desire itself, but with duality.
Once you form a dualistic relation between Subject (You) and object (the object of seeking or aversion), you will MISS the (nondual) REALITY right in front of you -- that This moment (everything that is arising) is already Self-Perfected as it is. It is a perfect expression of reality.
But if you are ignorant of Reality which is Non-Dual, your mind will be in a state of discontentment, because you think there is something 'out there' that you can grasp and get... that is better than what is presently arising now.. you will think that THIS IS INCOMPLETE, and that somehow, security and satisfaction can be found 'out there'. We do not know that this is entirely the function of our ego -- the sense of lack, fear, anxiety, dissatisfaction and all kinds of suffering... We do not know the root cause is the presumed subject-object separation.
BUT in reality, everything is the play of our primordial state, our Buddha Nature, is already self-liberating and self-perfected. We cannot find satisfaction, security, completeness through a dualistic relation.
THIS is the source of ALL sufferings. That is why Buddha said 'desire causes suffering', but it is not what most people understand it to be!! What he is talking about is the profound insight into the suffering caused by our illusory percetion of Duality (subject, and object).
If you can realise the NONDUAL reality, then all moment of arising is perfect bliss and couldn't be better... even in pain.
The pain is not 'your pain', and the body is not 'your body' -- the pain is the universe just like the airplane. And there is a sense of okay-ness and couldnt-be-otherwiseness. Just like the airplane passing by in the sky and the sound is just there -- it simply is there by itself, effortless on your part (and btw there is no such thing as 'your part' -- even thoughts are the universe). It just is. It is just what the universe manifest (as conditioned arising) at that and moment couldn't be otherwise. But because we see duality, you are 'disturbed' and wishes to manipulate to block it, but all there is is the universe as it is.
Whatever arises is just conditioned arising, it is allowed to be as it is. And even then there is a transcendental bliss permeating every sensation...
You will also be detached from all desires (it does not mean there is no desires, but detached from desires because the subject-object relation is simply seen through to be false), because there is completely no sense of lack at this moment! Even if you die, so be it! There's nobody who dies anyway. When there is complete trust and surrender, there is no fear.
That, is the Highest Bliss of Nirvana that the Buddha said. As Dharma Dan said, Further, in some strange way even the worst of the world has an aspect of
“deliciousness” in it, a richness of texture that can be deeply enjoyed, and a
mysterious and sometimes awe-inspiring glory mixed into it, inherent in it. The
happiness, peace and fullness of life they were looking for was permeating all the sensations without exception that had made up their world all along! What staggering irony this is, and what a silent joy it is to discover this at last. This is what is meant by “the bliss of Nirvana.” It is a more subtle understanding than the nirmanakaya and in some largely mysterious way does not contradict it.
Regarding pain and disturbances, here's something that Aaron said (Choiceless Awareness and Non-Fixation):
...Last summer at a retreat, one day there was a lawn mower going back and forth. People were sitting in meditation, and suddenly in the distance, there was "Brr-rrr-rrr-rrr." "Hearing, hearing." Energy began to contract with a fear, "this noise is going to distract me. It gave rise to a very valuable discussion. Barbara and John brought up Achaan Chah's question, "Is [that sound] coming in to bother you, or are you going out to bother it?" "
My dear ones, can you see that it is not the noise that distracts you. It is your relationship to the noise, your defending against the noise. The noise is not coming in to bother you. You are going out to try to stop it because of the fear that it will bother you. I offer the image of a rather snarly dog on a chain. He is sleeping in front of his doghouse when a child rides by on a tricycle, wheels rattling a bit. The child is just going by on the tricycle. Hearing that noise and feeling himself to be the protector of his property, the dog dashes out to the end of his chain, barking. Is the child coming in to bother the dog? Did the child pause to taunt the dog? The child was just riding his tricycle. You all act as if you are dogs on chains, conditioned. "Here comes that which I feel I must defend against." And you run to the end of your chain, yapping at it. Of course, there's no peace... -
"Since everything is but an illusion, perfect in being what it is
having no good or bad, acceptance or rejection (are unnecessary),
one may well burst into laughter."
~ Longchenpa -
...We might conceive of this as compassion having gotten caught in a loop, the loop of the illusion of duality. This is sort of like a dog’s tail chasing itself. Pain and pleasure, suffering and satisfaction always seem to be “over there.” Thus, when pleasant sensations arise, there is a constant, compassionate, deluded attempt to get over there to the other side of the imagined split. This is fundamental attraction. You would think that we would just stop imagining there is a split, but somehow that is not what happens. We keep perpetuating the sense of a split even as we try to bridge it, and so we suffer. When unpleasant sensations arise, there is an attempt to get away from over there, to widen the imagined split. This will never work, because it doesn’t actually exist, but the way we hold our minds as we try to get away from that side is painful. When boring or unpleasant sensations arise, there is the attempt to tune out all together and forget the whole thing, to try to pretend that the sensations on the other side of the split are not there. This is fundamental ignorance and it perpetuates the process, as it is by ignoring aspects of our sensate reality that the illusion of a split is created in the first place...
~ Dharma Dan -
Thats true...Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Brain is a vital organ so we need it to function. Just that we cannot reduce consciousness to brain. -
As we have agreed the other time, Buddhism has nothing scientific in it. What relation has meta-physics in common with physics? Absolutely nothing.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:There is absolutely no scientific fact that says it is impossible.
On the other hand, Buddhism is the scientific path to the end of suffering. -
Agreed. Think, how to solve the lust "problem" or like mahawarrior said, solve the lust "need". You mustn't think, how to escape... Buddhism is not about escape....Originally posted by mahawarrior:I do not see a need to get rid of lust as long as you can control it, as long as nobody, including yourself, is harmed in the process.
What I think is, too much of anything is bad, including lust. In moderation, I do not think lust is a problem. In fact, it can make your life more... ...meaningful -
I never said that. I said, Buddhism/Spirituality is a science by itself (see Spirituality and the 3 Strands of Deep Science), do not mix them up with other subjects. Just like physics and biology are quite different domains of studies.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:As we have agreed the other time, Buddhism has nothing scientific in it. What relation has meta-physics in common with physics? Absolutely nothing. -
As they say....
to solve ur problems...u need to get rid of the 'root' -
I'm not sure what you mean by that. If you mean cut off the root of ignorance, then yes.Originally posted by Q.C.Pak:As they say....
to solve ur problems...u need to get rid of the 'root'
Thai Buddhist monk cuts off penisNow at that time a certain monk, tormented by dissatisfaction, cut off his own male organ. They told this matter to the Lord. He said: "This foolish man, monks, cut off one thing when another should have been cut off. Monks, one should not cut off one's own male organ. Whoever should cut it off, there is a grave offence."
"This foolish man, monks, cut off one thing when another should have been cut off." - 'another' refers to the attachment, defilements and fetters
(Vinaya Piṭaka, Mahāvagga 110. Horner trans.)