Burning question on buddhism to be answered ?
-
Then it is also an assumption on your account that all people have a past life.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:That is your assumption.
I want something we can observe and not merely assume. -
You are not answering the question.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:Then it is also an assumption on your account that all people have a past life.
Because all phenomena are dependent arising, there cannot be birth that happens due to 'independent arising' or by chance. By the principle of the 12 interdependent origination, there is no such thing as that. Therefore everyone has past lives. -
Then why do people still have to abort babies? Most of the time, it's by chance.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:You are not answering the question.
Because all phenomena are dependent arising, there cannot be birth that happens due to 'independent arising' or by chance. By the principle of the 12 interdependent origination, there is no such thing as that. Therefore everyone has past lives. -
What are you talking about?Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:Then why do people still have to abort babies? Most of the time, it's by chance.
People abort babies due to a whole lot of causes and conditions. -
Conception is not by chance.... Tell me what you know about biology.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:What are you talking about?
People abort babies due to a whole lot of causes and conditions. -
Conception happens due to the meeting of the causes and conditions of sperm and egg. Without that, don't tell me conception can happen, or you think virgin birth happens to normal people?Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:Conception is not by chance.... Tell me what you know about biology.
In Buddhism, other than that (father and mother), we add one more condition -- 'consciousness'. -
if there is no self? who am i?
-
No separate and permanent self can be found anywhere. Not that 'self is non existing'. No self does not mean non-existence, or nihilism, but it means that 'self' is empty of objective, graspable, fixed, inherent existence... being merely none other than conditioned arising.Originally posted by Lin Yu:if there is no self? who am i?
As Thusness said about 3 years ago in another forum:
Life (Self) is nothing other than the continuous flow of the Now Moment.
The Now Moment ceases as it arises. This moment must completely ceased
and serves as the CAUSE for the next moment to arise.
Therefore Self is a process of series Self1, Self2, Self3, Self4, Self5, Self6...etc
A fixed entity 'Self' does not exist, what really exists is a momentary Self.
Under deep meditation, one is able to observe and sense the karmic and mental factors from moment to moment,
it is these factors that are succeeded from moment to moment and life and life but not a fixed entity.
When the karmic and mental factors subsides, it is known as "The True and Only (and Inherently egoless) Conscious Light (Itself)".
- Thusness
Toni Packer wrote (v good article to contemplate) on 'What Is The "Me"?'A somber day, isn't it? Dark, cloudy, cool, moist and windy. Amazing, this whole affair of "the weather!" We call it "weather," but what is it really? Wind. Rain. Clouds slowly parting. Not the words spoken about it, but just this darkening, blowing, pounding, wetting, and then lightening up, blue sky appearing amidst darkness, and sunshine sparkling on wet grasses and leaves. In a little while there'll be frost, snow and ice-covers. And then warming again, melting, oozing water everywhere. On an early spring day the dirt road sparkles with streams of wet silver. So — what is "weather" other than this incessant change of earthly conditions and all the human thoughts, feelings, and undertakings influenced by it? Like and dislike. Depression and elation. Creation and destruction. An ongoing, ever changing stream of happenings abiding nowhere. No entity "weather" to be found except in thinking and talking about it.
So what is this 'self'... just a process of the 5 skhandas. We have to experience it with mindfulness... sense the entire factors that arise moment to moment, as a process rather than as a conceptual entity (idea of a fixed 'self'). Five skhandas are in reality none other than our luminous Buddha Nature/pristine awareness-emptiness inseperable, none other than Mind. Just that we are attached, that is why there are five skhandas (including the part of dualistic perception, volition and consciousness).
Now — is there such an entity as "me," "I," "myself?" Or is it just like the "weather" — an ongoing, ever changing stream of ideas, images, memories, projections, likes and dislikes, creations and destructions, which thought keeps calling "I," "me," "Toni," and thereby solidifying what is evanescent? What am I really, truly, and what do I think and believe I am? Are we interested in exploring this amazing affair of "myself" from moment to moment? Is this, maybe, the essence of retreat work? Exploring ourselves minutely beyond the peace and quiet that we are seeking and maybe finding. Coming upon clarity about this deep sense of separation which we call "me," and "other people," without any need to condemn or overcome.
Most human beings take it totally for granted that I am "me," and that "me" is this body, this mind, this knowledge and sense about myself which so obviously feels separate from other people. The language in which we talk to ourselves and to each other inevitably implies separate "me's," and "you's" all the time. All of us talk "I" and "you" talk, we think it, write it, read it, and dream it with rarely any pause. There is incessant reinforcement of the sense of "I," "me," separate from others. Isolated. Insulated. Not understood. How is one to come upon the truth if separation is taken so much for granted, feels so common sense?
The difficulty is not insurmountable. Wholeness, true being, is here all the time, like the sun behind the clouds. Daylight is here in spite of cloud cover.
What makes up the clouds? .... (continued in the article)
Once this deeply rooted attachment/bond to 'I' and 'mine' ceases, five skhandas transform to eighteen dhatus, or rather, dualistic perception, volition, and consciousness transform and ceases to function in apparent duality. Duality here means there is a seperate self/subject/perceiver/doer/thinker/agent separated from perception/sensation/thoughts/deed, etc. What is left is the pure functioning of our six senses as the spontaneous expression of our true nature (luminous-emptiness) without being bonded in duality.
As for 'If there is no self'... 'who am I?'
This question is from the very beginning false -- because it is based on the assumption that there must be a 'who', a agent somewhere that exists which is behind experiencing, thinking, doing things. Because our conceptual analytical mind is so deeply rooted to think in terms of such enquiries 'Who', 'Where', 'When', it is unable to penetrate beyond it to see reality as it is. It is unable to see why this system of enquiry can never touch upon truth.
I wrote in http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2007/07/spell-of-karmic-propensities.html:...Karmic Propensities is what blinded us from seeing the ultimate reality. Our entire mind is affected by karmic propensities such that our entire system of enquiry, even when we want to inquire on reality, we cannot know beyond "Who", "When", "What", "Where". Our mind is always thinking dualistically, in terms of subject and object (an I and a Not-I/an Observer apart from the Object of Observation, which cannot be found in reality). It is a momentum that cannot be located, yet it can be directly felt and experienced, and the momentum arises every moment and affect the entire way we see things. When we are affected by momentum the mind cannot know the ultimate reality (Emptiness).
Because our momentum is at work, we will always assume a subject-object duality. That is, there is a Self, an Agent, and observer, doer, thinker of thoughts. A self that persists in time in a connected way... experiencing things... It blinds us into seeing self and objective world as 'entities', as 'things' with inherent existence, as a separate and permanent 'me'.
So when momentum is in action, we cannot help but react with our karmic patterns. If we were to ask, "If you lost your shoe, are you still you?" or "If u lost ur hands, do u still exist?". It almost seems certain to say "Yes, of course I am still I." because we always assumed there is a truly existing "Self" experiencing changes. This momentum can continue even after experiences of transcendental Presence, and distorting the experience. Dharma Dan calls this the "fundamental knot of perception". (See: The Non-Duality Models of Enlightenment by Dharma Dan)
Because it is our habit energy that made us think that way, we are so used to thinking in terms of subject object duality that it has become so deeply part of us, deeply imprinted into our consciousness.
If we were to eliminate this bond, then we can begin to realise, there is no "Self". In reality, there is only Self1, Self2, Self3, moment to moment our mental and karmic factors arise spontaneously but not in a connected way. We are not a permanent self, we are momentary selves and nothing stays, everything is ever flowing. -
cont.
Without seeing things as 'entities', we can begin to realise the nature of Dependent Co-Arising, Conditionality, Interdependence, etc, i.e Emptiness. The nature is always so, but our karmic propensities obscure us from seeing the truth, distorting the way we see things, enquire things, and perceive things. It is this bond that bonds us life after life in Samsara..... (cont from URL)
The Buddha also taught how the 'Who' is actually irrelevant in describing reality --
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn12/sn12.012.nypo.html
Phagguna Sutta
"There are, O monks, four nutriments for the sustenance of beings born, and for the support of beings seeking birth. What are the four? Edible food, coarse and fine; secondly, sense-impression; thirdly, volitional thought; fourthly, consciousness."
After these words, the venerable Moliya-Phagguna addressed the Exalted One as follows:
"Who, O Lord, consumes1 the nutriment consciousness?"
"The question is not correct," said the Exalted One. "I do not say that 'he consumes.'2 If I had said so, then the question 'Who consumes?' would be appropriate. But since I did not speak thus, the correct way to ask the question will be: 'For what is the nutriment consciousness (the condition)?'3 And to that the correct reply is: 'The nutriment consciousness4 is a condition for the future arising of a renewed existence;5 when that has come into being, there is (also) the sixfold sense-base; and conditioned by the sixfold sense-base is sense-impression.'"6
"Who, O Lord, has a sense-impression?"
"The question is not correct," said the Exalted One.
"I do not say that 'he has a sense-impression.' Had I said so, then the question 'Who has a sense-impression?' would be appropriate. But since I did not speak thus, the correct way to ask the question will be 'What is the condition of sense-impression?' And to that the correct reply is: 'The sixfold sense-base is a condition of sense-impression, and sense-impression is the condition of feeling.'"
"Who, O Lord, feels?"
"The question is not correct," said the Exalted One. "I do not say that 'he feels.' Had I said so, then the question 'Who feels?' would be appropriate. But since I did not speak thus, the correct way to ask the question will be 'What is the condition of feeling?' And to that the correct reply is: 'sense-impression is the condition of feeling; and feeling is the condition of craving.'"
"Who, O Lord, craves?"
"The question is not correct," said the Exalted One. "I do not say that 'he craves.' Had I said so, then the question 'Who craves?' would be appropriate. But since I did not speak thus, the correct way to ask the question will be 'What is the condition of craving?' And to that the correct reply is: 'Feeling is the condition of craving, and craving is the condition of clinging.'"
"Who, O Lord, clings?"
"The question is not correct," said the Exalted One, "I do not say that 'he clings.' Had I said so, then the question 'Who clings?' would be appropriate. But since I did not speak thus, the correct way to ask the question will be 'What is the condition of clinging?' And to that the correct reply is: 'Craving is the condition of clinging; and clinging is the condition of the process of becoming.' Such is the origin of this entire mass of suffering.7
"Through the complete fading away and cessation of even these six bases of sense-impression, sense-impression ceases;8 through the cessation of sense-impression, feeling ceases; through the cessation of feeling, craving ceases; through the cessation of craving, clinging ceases; through the cessation of clinging, the process of becoming ceases; through the cessation of the process of becoming, birth ceases; through the cessation of birth, old age, death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief and despair cease. Such is the cessation of this entire mass of suffering." -
If so called sudden awakening is so called enlightenment
Then buddha must have wasted his time teaching for years
Please take note on so called "great masters" that have 0 relics after their death and particular on their so called "great paths"
Preach so much and CONvinced people that they are enlightened...and the poor folks also cannot tell them apart
Well the mind can LIE but the body DON'T 
-
I think we can't judge a person just by relics alone, though sometimes relics do indicate certain levels of practice. Also, I think not everyone choose cremation after death, especially in the western world where cremation is not as much a common practice. Anyway, when judging someone's enlightenment we must judge them solely by the criteria of transcendental insights. One with true realisations have insights that are fully in line with the essence of the doctrines.Originally posted by maggot:If so called sudden awakening is so called enlightenment
Then buddha must have wasted his time teaching for years
Please take note on so called "great masters" that have 0 relics after their death and particular on their so called "great paths"
Preach so much and CONvinced people that they are enlightened...and the poor folks also cannot tell them apart
Well the mind can LIE but the body DON'T
Next, I do not believe that Buddha's teachings have little relevance in 'sudden awakening' schools like Zen.. even though I do not belong to the Zen school. The essence of the dharma is being expressed everywhere, though perhaps in a different form. And contrary to what people think, Zen is not as 'anti-doctrine' as what people would have thought. They are fully supportive of the scriptures though maybe not as an academic pursuit. Many great Zen masters have read and studied all the great sutras in the Tripitaka.
'Sudden enlightenment' also requires practice & sustaining of one's true state. For example in the Rinzai/Linji school of Chan/Zen, koan is often used as a meditative inquiry to lead the practitioner into the sudden awakening of his true nature. This is in fact a form of shamatha-vipashyana technique, a form of meditative technique/inquiry designed to lead the student to a sudden intuitive experience. And even after realisation, one has to practice abiding in pure presence of one's nature. So it is not as 'sudden' as what people thought -- or rather, 'sudden' is often misunderstood. -
If by attending a "ritual" can be release from karma debts or achieving better rebirths
Then buddha also wasted his time teaching -
Got such things meh? Never seen before.Originally posted by maggot:If by attending a "ritual" can be release from karma debts or achieving better rebirths
Then buddha also wasted his time teaching
There are merits from pujas, but no such thing as guaranteed rebirth by attending one. If one often goes for these things but do all sorts of evil, doesn't mean he won't have to suffer. -
Merits from pujas?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Got such things meh? Never seen before.
There are merits from pujas, but no such thing as guaranteed rebirth by attending one. If one often goes for these things but do all sorts of evil, doesn't mean he won't have to suffer.
Pay $ for pujas = merits?
So $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ = many merits?
-
Nope. Anyway I dunno about this puja things... so far the pujas I attended are free of charge.Originally posted by maggot:Merits from pujas?
Pay $ for pujas = merits?
So $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ = many merits?
I think money is just to cover some of the financial needs, merits is not in terms of amount of money but in sincerity and having a pure mind.
The beggar that gave 3 drops of gruel to the great arhat Mogallana gained rebirth in the celestial realms for 91 kalpas because she was sincere and very happy that she had something to give him, when Mogallana requested that from her.
Of course, if we have the financial capability to offer financial assistance to the dharma, by all means we must do our best to provide in this area. Those who do not have money can make also himself useful in other ways.. -
Normal people:noOriginally posted by An Eternal Now:Conception happens due to the meeting of the causes and conditions of sperm and egg. Without that, don't tell me conception can happen, or you think virgin birth happens to normal people?
In Buddhism, other than that (father and mother), we add one more condition -- 'consciousness'.
Hermaphodites:yes
'Independent conciousness' cannot be proven by science. -
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
What I meant is the general situation for human beings. In Buddhism, there are four kinds of births, not just one kind.
Normal people:no
Hermaphodites:yes'Independent conciousness' cannot be proven by science.
I never said consciousness is independent.
Consciousness is dependently originated. -
Independent as in differs from person to person. Unless your thoughts are always broadcasted to everyone.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:I never said consciousness is independent.
Consciousness is dependently originated. -
We are only apparently separate, not fundamentally separate.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:Independent as in differs from person to person. Unless your thoughts are always broadcasted to everyone. -
But people got the idea of more money donated = more meritsOriginally posted by An Eternal Now:Nope. Anyway I dunno about this puja things... so far the pujas I attended are free of charge.
I think money is just to cover some of the financial needs, merits is not in terms of amount of money but in sincerity and having a pure mind.
The beggar that gave 3 drops of gruel to the great arhat Mogallana gained rebirth in the celestial realms for 91 kalpas because she was sincere and very happy that she had something to give him, when Mogallana requested that from her.
Of course, if we have the financial capability to offer financial assistance to the dharma, by all means we must do our best to provide in this area. Those who do not have money can make also himself useful in other ways.. -
do you experience OBE during meditation?
-
Nope. but some other forummers can share their experience. longchen has told me his own experience before.. quite interesting.Originally posted by Lin Yu:do you experience OBE during meditation?
A question to everyone... thusness told me during OBE the colours seen are of a very different dimension.. like theres a different colour overlaying everything. Has anyone experienced this before? -
I should quickly note for the sake of readers out there that OBE is simply a side effect of meditation in buddhism and we do not practice meditation with the purpose of inducing astral projection unlike some spiritual systems or new age circle.
-
So do you believe Jesus was conceived out of virgin birth?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Conception happens due to the meeting of the causes and conditions of sperm and egg. Without that, don't tell me conception can happen, or you think virgin birth happens to normal people?
In Buddhism, other than that (father and mother), we add one more condition -- 'consciousness'. -
lately i begin to meditate during sleep. i was fully awake in dreams and i was aware that i was walking around the bedroom. i remembered looking at the time on the digital clock and when i woke up shortly after, the time apart was around 1 hour plus (which is my average time taken for "sitting meditation" ). i get intense sensations at times and i didn't struggle to escape from them. although i was aware of the intensity of sensations and though i was laying down sleeping but i felt i was sitting down and whatever happened were vividly like illusions. it could get so overwhelming that if i hadn't remained calm i can't imagine what would happen. i recalled i continuously "sit" in training samadhi holding a light in my palms and constantly chanting namo di zhang wang pusa. and the faith of di zhang wang pusa in me that which cannot be found outside maintains the calmness & fearlessness in facing adversities. at some point i got up and walked around the bedroom and though i felt it was like dreaming but in mindfulness (especially if without much effort applied), there is a natual awareness of the condition and situation. after i woke up around 4am plus i noted down onto my journal while my memory was still fresh. i contemplated. in dreams and daily life are not apart, they are one dream and one wakefulness with the same applied awareness at the same time. due to stubborn habits, deluded thinking, untamed mind and ignorance of truth / reality and attachment to - our body / to conceptual teaching & practice / happenings / the phenomena; it becomes a struggle and thus a cycle of rebirth & death and there is no true liberations from sufferings.
life is indeed a dream where there is no dream to live in...