Prophecy
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I'm sure most people here are familiar with the Buddha's prophecy on how the Dharma is going to last for only 5000 years in this world, and how nearing the end of the 5000 years, wars will be rampant (even a blade of grass can be a weapon), lifespan will be shortern (10 years), and how at this point of time, Maitreya Buddha will take his place and spread the Dharma.
My question: how is it that any prophecy is possible in Buddhism?
Our futures are uncertain, shaped by what we've done in the present and in the past. So how can anyone, even the Buddha, predict what'll happen in the future? Such prophecy will only imply that the future of this world is already fixed, that no amount of good we do can change it (which defys of course, the law of Karma). -
What you heard might not be what you see,
What you see might not be what you heard,
What you see or hear might not be the truth,
The truth is only seen with wisdom and mindfullness. -
Originally posted by annoy-you-must:
ur information don't seem to be correct.
I'm sure most people here are familiar with the Buddha's prophecy on how the Dharma is going to last for only 5000 years in this world, and how nearing the end of the 5000 years, wars will be rampant (even a blade of grass can be a weapon), lifespan will be shortern (10 years), and how at this point of time, Maitreya Buddha will take his place and spread the Dharma.
"The era when the Buddha dwelled in the world was called the Orthodox Dharma Age. At that time the Buddha taught the Dharma, and there were genuine Arhats and great Bodhisattvas; the sages were dwelling in the world. The Orthodox Dharma Age lasted for one thousand years. The Dharma-Image Age followed--after the Buddha entered nirvana. During this period, people who cultivated the Way were few; those who were attached to external appearances were many. People stressed the creation of Buddha-images and many were made, but genuine cultivators were few.
http://online.sfsu.edu/~rone/Buddhism/BuddhistDict/BDD.html
Maitreya Buddha won't come down so early. it's abt 5.67billion from now, if we calculate the lifespan of Tusita heaven.My question: how is it that any prophecy is possible in Buddhism?Our futures are uncertain, shaped by what we've done in the present and in the past. So how can anyone, even the Buddha, predict what'll happen in the future? Such prophecy will only imply that the future of this world is already fixed, that no amount of good we do can change it (which defys of course, the law of Karma).
Buddha is omniscience. i think what u refer to is more for personal account, that u can still make effort to change ur destiny. but what the Buddha 'rough out' is the Overall direction of humanity which still obey the law of impermenance.
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There is a general ongoing trend of regeneration and degeneration, based on simple cause and effect. Humanity undergoes cycles of increase and decreasing, when humanity has reached its worse and suffered greatly (see http://www.jenchen.org.sg/vol8no2a.htm), it will change for the good.Originally posted by annoy-you-must:I'm sure most people here are familiar with the Buddha's prophecy on how the Dharma is going to last for only 5000 years in this world, and how nearing the end of the 5000 years, wars will be rampant (even a blade of grass can be a weapon), lifespan will be shortern (10 years), and how at this point of time, Maitreya Buddha will take his place and spread the Dharma.
My question: how is it that any prophecy is possible in Buddhism?
Our futures are uncertain, shaped by what we've done in the present and in the past. So how can anyone, even the Buddha, predict what'll happen in the future? Such prophecy will only imply that the future of this world is already fixed, that no amount of good we do can change it (which defys of course, the law of Karma).
As for Maitreya, like Sinweiy said, you got the info wrong. Maitreya does not attain Buddhahood when the lifespan is at 10 years old. He attains Buddhahood only AFTER the lifespan reached 10, and then increases to 84000. He attains Buddhahood at a time where the lifespan is 84000 years, at that time the world is very very different, it is like a pure land.
See: The next Buddha -
btw, i also heard that Maitreya will also come down for a while as a manifested body During the era when lifespan are at around 10 or so. this is to teach or tell people to do good. hence ppl then start to do good...n lifespan start to increase.
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Dharma and buhdda never dies for they always live in our hearts. Right?
Even till the last person who have faith in buhdda and his dharma teachings, buhdda will never cease to exist. -
Originally posted by cheskiz:
But in truth I do not pass into quiescence.
Dharma and buhdda never dies for they always live in our hearts. Right?
Even till the last person who have faith in buhdda and his dharma teachings, buhdda will never cease to exist.
I remain here, always speaking the Dharma.
I always stay right here,
And using the power of spiritual penetrations,
I cause inverted living beings,
Although near me, not to see me.
The multitudes see me as passing into quiescence.
...
Where I say to living beings
That I am always here and never cease to be.
But using the power of expedient devices
I manifest "ceasing" and "not ceasing" to be.
CHAPTER SIXTEEN
THE THUS COME ONE'S LIFE SPAN
http://web.archive.org/web/20060519131953/www.buddhistdoor.com/resources/sutras/lotus/sources/lotus16.htm
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Even if there's a general trend of regeneration and degeneration, how is it that the Buddha was able to make such specific prophecy? It's like he knows how this world's future is going to end up like and there's no way to chance it at all?
There is a general ongoing trend of regeneration and degeneration, based on simple cause and effect. Humanity undergoes cycles of increase and decreasing, when humanity has reached its worse and suffered greatly (see http://www.jenchen.org.sg/vol8no2a.htm), it will change for the good.
As for Maitreya, like Sinweiy said, you got the info wrong. Maitreya does not attain Buddhahood when the lifespan is at 10 years old. He attains Buddhahood only AFTER the lifespan reached 10, and then [b]increases to 84000. He attains Buddhahood at a time where the lifespan is 84000 years, at that time the world is very very different, it is like a pure land.
See: The next Buddha[/b] -
As Sinweiy said, the Buddha is omniscient and can see into the past and future. He has comprehended the totality of cause and effect. He knows for instance, how and when is the universe going to end and the next universe forms again. He also know what is going to happen to mankind a long time from now. I don't think it's 5000 years btw, will be longer than 5000 years.Originally posted by annoy-you-must:Even if there's a general trend of regeneration and degeneration, how is it that the Buddha was able to make such specific prophecy? It's like he knows how this world's future is going to end up like and there's no way to chance it at all?
Anyway it's not that there is no way we can be good in that period of time. As a matter of fact there will continue to be Bodhisattvas, Arhats, and Dharma practitioners even when the lifespan has decreased to 10 years old and people can murder each other with a blade of grass. However, these people will be hiding in the wilderness as the commoners no longer accept nor hear the dharma.. and their (the sages and practitioners') lives become threatened in society.
If you are a true dharma practitioner and are born in those times, you will not be born among those 'commoners' who suffer terribly and are shrouded by ignorance and evil, but you will be born among the sages and practitioners who hides away in the wilderness.
Only after the great calamities caused almost the entire human race to be annihilated whereby only a small group of people survived, they wake up from their evil ways and tend towards the wholesome path. It is at this time, the Bodhisattvas (Maitreya cld be one of the Bodhisattva to appear), Arhats, and practitoners returns to the society to preach the way of dharma again... at this time the lifespan becomes an upward trend all the way to 84000 (note that 84000 may not be a literal number, but a figurative number meaning 'uncountable')
more info about the whole thing -- http://www.jenchen.org.sg/vol8no2a.htm
So to answer your question -- is it all fated? It is not a matter of whether it's 'fated', but that on the whole, the collective karmic conditionings of humanity is really beyond our capacity to transform. Just like even though the Buddha is born on Earth, few people practice his way, nor attain Enlightenment.
At this trend it will have to eventually reach great calamity before people wake up. BUT, what we can change, is ourselves. If we can change ourselves, we will not be born with those terrible conditions... but continue practicing in the mountains even in that period of time. -
I have a question consistently gnawing at me... How can our world be at war constantly when the lifespan of a human is about 10 years? Can we possibly have seven or eight-year olds procreating and killing each other while hunting down enlightened buddhas?
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That is how terrible things will be.Originally posted by Beyond Religion:I have a question consistently gnawing at me... How can our world be at war constantly when the lifespan of a human is about 10 years? Can we possibly have seven or eight-year olds procreating and killing each other while hunting down enlightened buddhas?
At that time, people get married at age of 5. -
It is possible if we see how certain insects or virus can born, fight, mate, reproduce, deterorates, die; all within 24 hours or even shorter.Originally posted by Beyond Religion:I have a question consistently gnawing at me... How can our world be at war constantly when the lifespan of a human is about 10 years? Can we possibly have seven or eight-year olds procreating and killing each other while hunting down enlightened buddhas?
Oh, forgot which country, I think in Phillipine? The leader of a outlaw gang which used to live in the forest terrorising villagers, was a 12 yrs old( or younger) boy who loves to smoke cigar and shoot with machine-guns. -
The Buddha predicted that the Dharma he had preached will last for 5000 years in this world.
Looking at the past 2500 years, it's difficult to imagine how our lifespan will decrease from approx. 70 years all the way to 10 years in just a period of another 2500 years. -
I stand at the opposite end of the spectrum:
I believe that true Dharma never dies and does not need a human to propagate it.
Neither words nor actions mean anything to the Dharma. It is neither a singularity nor duality nor another thing altogether. -
Originally posted by cheskiz:Dharma and buhdda never dies for they always live in our hearts. Right?
Even till the last person who have faith in buhdda and his dharma teachings, buhdda will never cease to exist.
in a way.. -
Then why is predicted that there will be a Dharma-ending period?Originally posted by Isis:
in a way.. -
Yes, true dharma never dies. That's the only thing you've said today that makes sense!Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:I stand at the opposite end of the spectrum:
I believe that true Dharma never dies and does not need a human to propagate it.
Neither words nor actions mean anything to the Dharma. It is neither a singularity nor duality nor another thing altogether.
But it ends there. 
True dharma needs people to propagate, otherwise nobody will know true dharma. Words is not the thing itself, but words are needed to point people to the thing itself. Words are necessary pointers to convey the message, even though the essence is not in the words. -
Roughly 7000~10000 more years.Originally posted by annoy-you-must:The Buddha predicted that the Dharma he had preached will last for 5000 years in this world.
Looking at the past 2500 years, it's difficult to imagine how our lifespan will decrease from approx. 70 years all the way to 10 years in just a period of another 2500 years.
It depends on what source you read.
According to the source I read, dharma ending age lasts for 10000 years. -
aisay....he/she really live up to his/her name. really annoy ppl's answer.
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Like my teacher once said. If she was to come to class doing nothing except holding a flower and smiling at us for the entire lessons, nobody will come for the next.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Yes, true dharma never dies. That's the only thing you've said today that makes sense! But it ends there.
True dharma needs people to propagate, otherwise nobody will know true dharma. Words is not the thing itself, but words are needed to point people to the thing itself. Words are necessary pointers to convey the message, even though the essence is not in the words. -
Originally posted by annoy-you-must:Like my teacher once said. If she was to come to class doing nothing except holding a flower and smiling at us for the entire lessons, nobody will come for the next. Agreed!
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I remain unconvinced that anybody, even Buddha, can actually prophecise the future.
Let's put it this way. A fortune teller tells me that I'll have a successful career. I know it's false because whether or not I have a successful career cannot be a pre-determined fate. Even though the success of my career partially depends on uncontrollable factors such as my enviroment and whether or not I have good collegues, etc, it also depends on controllable factors such as whether or not I bother to work hard and work smart. If I want to, I can even make sure that the prediction does not come true by ruining my career on purpose.
In short, I'm the one who decides my own fate. This goes very well with the theory of cause, conditions and effects.
The prophecy that this world is doomed towards degeneration may goes well with the law of impermanence, as some of you have mentioned. However, this also implies that no matter humanity does, the effects will be the same. No matter what the causes and conditions are, the effects will remain unchanged. The world's fate is already decided. -
Yes an individual can decide the fate -- but just because the Buddha taught the dharma does not mean that all sentient beings will be liberated.Originally posted by annoy-you-must:I remain unconvinced that anybody, even Buddha, can actually prophecise the future.
Let's put it this way. A fortune teller tells me that I'll have a successful career. I know it's false because whether or not I have a successful career cannot be a pre-determined fate. Even though the success of my career partially depends on uncontrollable factors such as my enviroment and whether or not I have good collegues, etc, it also depends on controllable factors such as whether or not I bother to work hard and work smart. If I want to, I can even make sure that the prediction does not come true by ruining my career on purpose.
In short, I'm the one who decides my own fate. This goes very well with the theory of cause, conditions and effects.
The prophecy that this world is doomed towards degeneration may goes well with the law of impermanence, as some of you have mentioned. However, this also implies that no matter humanity does, the effects will be the same. No matter what the causes and conditions are, the effects will remain unchanged. The world's fate is already decided.
So you can change your fate and not be reborn in those times or be reborn among the practitioners, but the collective karma of humanity is too huge and immense to be changed. It is simply beyond our capacity. We can improve the situation but not totally solve it. -
Originally posted by annoy-you-must:
Buddha also didn't use the exact date or time. there's also plus an minus per se, depending on the people's actions, He use estimates...u cannot compare a small example of one person with the WHOLE of humanity. changing the destiny of one person is still workable, but you also cannot change the fact that we all will die oneday, right?
I remain unconvinced that anybody, even Buddha, can actually prophecise the future.
Let's put it this way. A fortune teller tells me that I'll have a successful career. I know it's false because whether or not I have a successful career cannot be a pre-determined fate. Even though the success of my career partially depends on uncontrollable factors such as my enviroment and whether or not I have good collegues, etc, it also depends on controllable factors such as whether or not I bother to work hard and work smart. If I want to, I can even make sure that the prediction does not come true by ruining my career on purpose.
In short, I'm the one who decides my own fate. This goes very well with the theory of cause, conditions and effects.
The prophecy that this world is doomed towards degeneration may goes well with the law of impermanence, as some of you have mentioned. However, this also implies that no matter humanity does, the effects will be the same. No matter what the causes and conditions are, the effects will remain unchanged. The world's fate is already decided.[/b]
even nowaday, we know we will live about 70+ or so mah.
so i don't see any contradictions.
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moreover, if u live say only 70 years, the length of 1000 years passing on top of u, wouldn't affect u much wan. it's a very very slow process. the effect is not so noticable. it's not as if suddenly u wake up oneday, and the dharma is gone already.
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