Questions on Five Precepts
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Precept 1: Abstain from killing
Qn: Most of us are laymen. Be at work or for some who have served the army, will know that though we do not really kill for fun, we do directly or indirectly kill as part of our job or training. Ants, cokroaches, mosquitoes, are some of the common living things we deliberately or accidentally kill occasionally, if we exclude the cooked meat that we eat and humans of course.
For someone who has taken the the precept of no killing, it would be quite easy to avoid killing cokroaches, as you can shoo them away. But for ants and mosquitoes, can you really avoid killing them when you are doing house-cleaning or trying to make sure you don't get dengue?
My question is, how or what can we do to ensure that we have totally and properly observed the precept of no-killing every single day?
Precept 3: Abstain from sexual misconduct
Be it from TV dramas or from real life, some of us may have experienced or heard that some of our friends have experienced scenarios like the below:
Scenario 1: Both guy and girl are married, but under certain circumstances, either party (or worst both) had a one night stand with another acquaintance or friend or maybe a stranger at some point in time in their marriage.
Without any doubt, the above is sexual misconduct.
Scenario 2: Both guy and girl are in a steady dating relationship, with both committed to each other in affection and care. The guy has the intention to marry this girlfriend one day, but for some reasons, they started sexual relations as one or both believed this would help to ease each other's insecurities.
For example, the girl may suggest the idea of physical intimacy to the guy who has been very insecure that this girl keeps on recalling about her former boyfriend/husband all the time during their entire courtship. He has never suggested, persuaded or even mentioned sex at any occasion, but only when the girl has indicated quite clearly her willingness and after asking the girl for confirmation of her intentions, they started it.
After some time, the guy proposes and they get married.
For the above relationship, if either guy or girl or both parties has formally undertaken the five precepts, would their pre-marital sexual experience be considered as violating the precept of sexual misconduct?
Precept 5: Abstain from wine and anything that causes mental or emotional disturbance
At weddings, some of us would be offered drinks like red wine during reception time. For someone who has taken the above precept, does this mean red wine or canned beer is totally out? What about coktails with some alcohol in it?
Hope to hear and learn more about the right views and ways of observing the five precepts. -
Originally posted by Spnw07:
Just curious that there's no response fr AEN... I think maybe he has answered so many similar questions in the past that he's now searching the suitable link for you. Be patient.
[b]Precept 1: Abstain from killing
Qn: Most of us are laymen. Be at work or for some who have served the army, will know that though we do not really kill for fun, we do directly or indirectly kill as part of our job or training. Ants, cokroaches, mosquitoes, are some of the common living things we deliberately or accidentally kill occasionally, if we exclude the cooked meat that we eat and humans of course.
For someone who has taken the the precept of no killing, it would be quite easy to avoid killing cokroaches, as you can shoo them away. But for ants and mosquitoes, can you really avoid killing them when you are doing house-cleaning or trying to make sure you don't get dengue?
My question is, how or what can we do to ensure that we have totally and properly observed the precept of no-killing every single day?
[/b]
Anyway, I'm not up to mark to offer any advice but there was a similar query posted to Zen Master Shen Yan and his answers was that:
Firstly, the precept of no killing is gear towards no killing of human beings as foremost. ie. killing of humans is of heaviest karma; killing of insects or the like( pang2 shen1) is of lighter karma.
Then under killing of humans, there are a few conditions where the action cannot be repent. They are mainly the various ill intentions of killing.
According to Master Sheng Yan, in order to protect properties or health, it is impossible not to remove insects, mosquitoes or worms etc. However, those that really harm humans should be dealt with, and while doing so, we should not harbour the intentions of killing, but with due care. If however, after using all possible care in not harming lives, there are still lives killed accidentally, then one must sincerely feel remorse n repent, and pray for a virtuous rebirth for them, that they will attain Buddhahood one day. This can reduce one's karma of killing.
But of cos prevention is better than cure. Master Sheng yan also mentioned that we should always keep our house clean so as not to create a living enironment for such insects or termites etc.
He said that to expect a lay person to uphold the precept of no killing perfectly ( ie completely no killing indirectly, accidentally, unconsciously)) is quite impossible! Only those above xiao3 shen4 chu1 guo3 can achieve such stage.
He futher mentioned that the mind is vital in keeping the precepts. The intentions of the actions determine whether the precepts has been broken or which degrees of 'sentences'( heavy , medium, light) one will have to faced.
He also mentioned that one should not beat another person, animals, insect; beat with hatred is considerd to have break the precept.
As for your other question on sexual misconduct, I'll try to check out n come back to you later. gtg. Hungry.
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Originally posted by Spnw07:
Hi, don't mind I skip to Precept 5 first?
[b]
[b]Precept 5: Abstain from wine and anything that causes mental or emotional disturbance
At weddings, some of us would be offered drinks like red wine during reception time. For someone who has taken the above precept, does this mean red wine or canned beer is totally out? What about coktails with some alcohol in it?
Hope to hear and learn more about the right views and ways of observing the five precepts.
[/b]
Again, I shouldn't be in any position to give advice on precepts, but I'd like to quote Ven Master Bai Yun on this.
He was once asked whether drinking alcohol for a person of integrity or discipline is alright? To this, he replied that by right such a upright person would only use alcohol as medicine to cure illness! there isn't any difference whether he is a person of integrity or not. Alcohol can hinders one's wisdom n being drunk will lead to uncontrollable behaviour n undesirable actions which may give rise ro various problems.
Thus my understanding is that unless for medical reasons, if one decided to hold this precept then it should be abided by at all time, regardless of the nature of drink ( how high or low is the percentage content of alcohol in the drink)or environment( wedding or party, business or lesiure) one is in.
Master Sheng Yan also mentioned that the karmic effects of consuming alcohol ( inclusive of drugs n the like which cause mental disturbances) are very grave. Sheng1 huai4 ming4 zhong1, zhui4 san1 e4 dao4. - ie leads one to fall to the three lower realms. So it must be avoided.
He also feels that this precept is actually the easiest to uphold, however to forever never violates this precept is possible only for one who has reached shi4 guo3 a1 luo2 han4.
So generally speaking, the 5 precepts are to help lay persons like us to lead a disciplined and morally correct lifestyle, which in turn pave the way for our cultivation of wisdom and compassion. This is a very important foundation which most of us should build before we can move any further. So I think we must try to received at least one precept.
But to quote Ven Master Baiyun again, he said that he usually would advised one to take refuge under the triple gem first, no need to immediately take the precepts, but must learn n practise the precepts. That is to understand what the precpts entail, then try it out and see how far one can go. If one thinks that one's situation does not allow one to uphold any precept, then it's better not to keep that particular precept yet. Once the situation has allow one to do so, or one is confident n ready to abide by it, then go and take the precept. This is the correct way of receiving precepts. First, learn; next, to receive; once received, keep it, don't break it.
So what to do for those who have already received the precepts and now still cannot keep it? Then pls go back to your Ven master to remove it. Receive it again the next time once you're ready.
OK, gtg, shower time. -
Thanks for responding, cycle. I too was curious whether my post was offensive or irrelevant after observing that no one had posted since this topic came up more than a week ago.Originally posted by cycle:Just curious that there's no response fr AEN... I think maybe he has answered so many similar questions in the past that he's now searching the suitable link for you. Be patient.
Anyway, I'm not up to mark to offer any advice but there was a similar query posted to Zen Master Shen Yan and his answers was that:
Firstly, the precept of no killing is gear towards no killing of human beings as foremost. ie. killing of humans is of heaviest karma; killing of insects or the like( pang2 shen1) is of lighter karma.
Then under killing of humans, there are a few conditions where the action cannot be repent. They are mainly the various ill intentions of killing.
According to Master Sheng Yan, in order to protect properties or health, it is impossible not to remove insects, mosquitoes or worms etc. However, those that really harm humans should be dealt with, and while doing so, we should not harbour the intentions of killing, but with due care. If however, after using all possible care in not harming lives, there are still lives killed accidentally, then one must sincerely feel remorse n repent, and pray for a virtuous rebirth for them, that they will attain Buddhahood one day. This can reduce one's karma of killing.
But of cos prevention is better than cure. Master Sheng yan also mentioned that we should always keep our house clean so as not to create a living enironment for such insects or termites etc.
He said that to expect a lay person to uphold the precept of no killing perfectly ( ie completely no killing indirectly, accidentally, unconsciously)) is quite impossible! Only those above xiao3 shen4 chu1 guo3 can achieve such stage.
He futher mentioned that the mind is vital in keeping the precepts. The intentions of the actions determine whether the precepts has been broken or which degrees of 'sentences'( heavy , medium, light) one will have to faced.
He also mentioned that one should not beat another person, animals, insect; beat with hatred is considerd to have break the precept.
As for your other question on sexual misconduct, I'll try to check out n come back to you later. gtg. Hungry.
How to remove harmful insects without intentions of killing? Most insects are very small and they move very fast. Before you have time to brush them away with something, you have to first know how to protect yourself and others around you. That's especially important if you are in a position of protecting young children.
I seriously find it hard to brush away insects, especially harmful ones, without any intention of killing. For example, ants like to crawl around the kitchen area even when I have washed it with soup and all. Moping after frying of food will kill them but how many can I save? I can save one ant, but not a group of ants crowding together. When I have time and no one's rushing me, I usually try to disperse them by blowing at them at different directions. It works but this wouldn't really be practical when you are working outside.
I do agree and believe that only those who have achieved at 1st stage of sainthood can completely and strictly observe the no-killing precept without any kind of mistakes throughout their lives.
I think that partly explains why wars and illnesses of countless kinds continue to plague all living things, especially humans. Cos very, very few people can completely purify any karma which results from intentional or careless killing.
Sexual misconduct is a serious issue in my opinion as the leng4 yan2 jing1 states that in our present era of dharma-ending age, many people, both layman and the ordained would be subjected to many spiritual possessions by evil spirits when practising meditation or chanting, and the common evil behaviour that would come from these possessed people would be the blatant encouragement/condoning/widespread practice of sexual lust.
For example, masturbation, oral or anal sex is regarded as normal by doctors and a growing number of people throughout the world, as long as the parties involved are consenting and are of legal age.
As science progresses to explain or justify the gradual or immediate abandonment of certain 'old' or 'moral' beliefs and precepts, we as buddhists cannot afford to keep quiet and hope to stay away from evil influences all the time.
They (evil influences) will come to find us eventually, even as we consciously try to keep away from friends or company which we feel will misled or obstruct us from observing the five precepts.
Thus I'm always on my toes, in trying to find out as much as possible about how to observe the precepts properly in our modern age of gradual but yet fast moral corruption of human mind and heart. -
The information you have given above is detailed and good enough for a beginner buddhist like me, who is still fretting whether he should formally undertake all or one precept.Originally posted by cycle:Hi, don't mind I skip to Precept 5 first?
Again, I shouldn't be in any position to give advice on precepts, but I'd like to quote Ven Master Bai Yun on this.
He was once asked whether drinking alcohol for a person of integrity or discipline is alright? To this, he replied that by right such a upright person would only use alcohol as medicine to cure illness! there isn't any difference whether he is a person of integrity or not. Alcohol can hinders one's wisdom n being drunk will lead to uncontrollable behaviour n undesirable actions which may give rise ro various problems.
Thus my understanding is that unless for medical reasons, if one decided to hold this precept then it should be abided by at all time, regardless of the nature of drink ( how high or low is the percentage content of alcohol in the drink)or environment( wedding or party, business or lesiure) one is in.
Master Sheng Yan also mentioned that the karmic effects of consuming alcohol ( inclusive of drugs n the like which cause mental disturbances) are very grave. Sheng1 huai4 ming4 zhong1, zhui4 san1 e4 dao4. - ie leads one to fall to the three lower realms. So it must be avoided.
He also feels that this precept is actually the easiest to uphold, however to forever never violates this precept is possible only for one who has reached shi4 guo3 a1 luo2 han4.
So generally speaking, the 5 precepts are to help lay persons like us to lead a disciplined and morally correct lifestyle, which in turn pave the way for our cultivation of wisdom and compassion. This is a very important foundation which most of us should build before we can move any further. So I think we must try to received at least one precept.
But to quote Ven Master Baiyun again, he said that he usually would advised one to take refuge under the triple gem first, no need to immediately take the precepts, but must learn n practise the precepts. That is to understand what the precpts entail, then try it out and see how far one can go. If one thinks that one's situation does not allow one to uphold any precept, then it's better not to keep that particular precept yet. Once the situation has allow one to do so, or one is confident n ready to abide by it, then go and take the precept. This is the correct way of receiving precepts. First, learn; next, to receive; once received, keep it, don't break it.
So what to do for those who have already received the precepts and now still cannot keep it? Then pls go back to your Ven master to remove it. Receive it again the next time once you're ready.
OK, gtg, shower time. -
Don't worry too much. I think the 5 precepts are to guide us to the right way of living and character cultivation which can help us to avoid/solve problems and avoid/reduce sufferings. It shouldn't become a vexation.Originally posted by Spnw07:How to remove harmful insects without intentions of killing? Most insects are very small and they move very fast. Before you have time to brush them away with something, you have to first know how to protect yourself and others around you. That's especially important if you are in a position of protecting young children.
I seriously find it hard to brush away insects, especially harmful ones, without any intention of killing. For example, ants like to crawl around the kitchen area even when I have washed it with soup and all. Moping after frying of food will kill them but how many can I save? I can save one ant, but not a group of ants crowding together. When I have time and no one's rushing me, I usually try to disperse them by blowing at them at different directions. It works but this wouldn't really be practical when you are working outside.
As what the venerables had advised, as long as you do not harbour the ill intentions to/or purposely violate the precepts, you are considered to be abiding within the rules. So eg when we want to remove the ants, in our mind we must really want to remove them not to kill them, then try the best to our ability and situation that allows, and in the process should inevitably some may be killed ( true, as u said, they r so many n so tiny n swift in action) we just have to try to hurt as few as possible. Simply put, we do what we can within the best of our limits. if you can only save one ant, then just save that one.
As for harmful insect eg aris mosquitoes, I"ll kill it if I see one before it spread the dengue to the public and killed more ppl. Then of cos I'm prepared to take the karmic effects of killing it although it is much lighter then killing humans,or go around terminating insects for fun. -
Yes it is true we can't avoid such evil influences or solicitations as they will come to us even if we holed ourselves up in the mountain nowadays.Originally posted by Spnw07:.
As science progresses to explain or justify the gradual or immediate abandonment of certain 'old' or 'moral' beliefs and precepts, we as buddhists cannot afford to keep quiet and hope to stay away from evil influences all the time.
They (evil influences) will come to find us eventually, even as we consciously try to keep away from friends or company which we feel will misled or obstruct us from observing the five precepts.
But I think sometimes it is not how we can escape away from them, but rather how to stay unmoved when they come to us, or even when we are living among them.
It may sound impossible to a beginner Buddhist and extremely difficult to most of us but it can be done.
Buddhadharma really shows us the way to achieve this.
Follow the Dharma step by step, don't be too hurry n impatient, build up from the foundation, it may take a long time but you will see the difference as you will realise that your vexations in life and defilments gradually reducing.
So don't give up on ourselves.
He whose mind does not flutter by contact with worldly contingencies, sorrowless, stainless and secure - this is the Highest Blessing!
~ The Buddha -
AEN's internet system is down.Originally posted by cycle:Just curious that there's no response fr AEN... I think maybe he has answered so many similar questions in the past that he's now searching the suitable link for you. Be patient.
Anyway, I'm not up to mark to offer any advice but there was a similar query posted to Zen Master Shen Yan and his answers was that:
Firstly, the precept of no killing is gear towards no killing of human beings as foremost. ie. killing of humans is of heaviest karma; killing of insects or the like( pang2 shen1) is of lighter karma.
Then under killing of humans, there are a few conditions where the action cannot be repent. They are mainly the various ill intentions of killing.
According to Master Sheng Yan, in order to protect properties or health, it is impossible not to remove insects, mosquitoes or worms etc. However, those that really harm humans should be dealt with, and while doing so, we should not harbour the intentions of killing, but with due care. If however, after using all possible care in not harming lives, there are still lives killed accidentally, then one must sincerely feel remorse n repent, and pray for a virtuous rebirth for them, that they will attain Buddhahood one day. This can reduce one's karma of killing.
But of cos prevention is better than cure. Master Sheng yan also mentioned that we should always keep our house clean so as not to create a living enironment for such insects or termites etc.
He said that to expect a lay person to uphold the precept of no killing perfectly ( ie completely no killing indirectly, accidentally, unconsciously)) is quite impossible! Only those above xiao3 shen4 chu1 guo3 can achieve such stage.
He futher mentioned that the mind is vital in keeping the precepts. The intentions of the actions determine whether the precepts has been broken or which degrees of 'sentences'( heavy , medium, light) one will have to faced.
He also mentioned that one should not beat another person, animals, insect; beat with hatred is considerd to have break the precept.
As for your other question on sexual misconduct, I'll try to check out n come back to you later. gtg. Hungry. -
oh, one more thing, as master shengyan had said, to beat( or hurt) a insect with hatred is considered as breaking the precept of no killing; so when one kill a harmful or poisonous insect, the intentions should be to stop more harm to others rather than seeking vengeance towards such insects. ok, really gtg.Originally posted by cycle:As for harmful insect eg aris mosquitoes, I"ll kill it if I see one before it spread the dengue to the public and killed more ppl. Then of cos I'm prepared to take the karmic effects of killing it although it is much lighter then killing humans,or go around terminating insects for fun. -
No wonder!Originally posted by Thusness:AEN's internet system is down.
Pls come back quikly, many r waiting for your help!
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Hi Spwn,
Just to share my opinion. I think precepts are guidelines to a more ethical living for both laypeople and ordained people. However, since Buddha would have surely understood the more complex challenges that laypeople will face, that is why we are only made to observe (note:not bounded, contracted, vowed) the basic 5 precepts.
For kamma to manifests, the intention is the thing. Whereas upon landing ourselves in difficult situations, we make the best choice out of it. The 5 precepts act as a moral reference for us to make a choice, of course I think the struggle to overcome unwholesome acts will arise when one choose to follow the precepts, however, I don't think we should be vex by it. We have to understand why these precepts exist in the first place.
I see Buddhism as a spiritual teaching that teaches us how to make decision and be responsible for it (be it bad or good choices), instead of afraid or running from it.
Regarding about the 5th precept, I'm not sure with the Theravada Tradition, but in the Mahayana Tradition, it is known as a Zhe Jie (meaning a minor precept as compare to the first 4 precepts). That said, meaning even if you commit it, the so-called kamma is not as serious as the first four, that is traditionally speaking.
I think generally alcohol is harmful to the body. I used to be a regular drinker during my poly days. I drank almost every time I knocked off from my part time job. It is about the company you mix with. When I went into the Army, I sort of get less in touch with that company of friends and only drink occasionally like wedding dinner or some social events, but not as much as I did. Just last few months, after an absence of drinking regularly (lol), I drank again, with empty stomach, vodka neat on the rock. Damn syok. Then less than a week, my gastric starts giving me problems. Sometimes when I had eaten a lot, I still feel hungry, sometimes when I skipped a meal or two, my stomach will be so bloated that I feel like vomitting. Now I have gastric problems, thanks to my drinking. =P
And as AEN would have said before, anyone who is taking meditation seriously should avoid drinking. It is true that the effect of alcohol can really sustain for a few days after you had drank. I am not a serious meditator but I could feel the lethargic, fatigue effect even two days after I had drank (thanks to quitting regular drinking lol).
And not forgetting drinking is not cheap. The cheapest you can get is probably got to coffeeshop and ask for beer. It should be slightly over $7 per bottle now. During my time it was around $6.50 to $6.80.
However, if you are at a social function where everyone is drinking and if you think that by don't drink you are not giving face, then maybe a sip or two would be fine. Of course you can make the call of don't drink at all. I think the idea is that not having drinking as a habit.
As I am riding motorcycle now, that becomes my excuse to tell people that I cannot drink. Haha.
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Regarding the 3rd precept. I think in the older times, there isn't such a thing call ROM now. So for them, going through the customary marrirage is the landmark event to show that a couple is officially recognised and tied down. However, as you could have watched in drama, there are couples who eloped, with their unification not recognised by either parents, then how? Cannot have settle down and cannot have sex?
I think the essence on this precept is the question on the commitment in a relationship. That comes with a mature rationale thinking (not the teens puppy love type) that is this the one that is going to be your partner for the rest of your life. And that to perform sex, are both parties willing to take up such responsibilities should any...erm...accident happens?
If any parties had one night stands before, they are already history. They had before and its over, don't let the past to haunt you.
About the 1st precept, I do kill cockroaches. I think the intention is important. I don't kill them out of fun. Because I am concern over the health of my family. Sometimes your house may be clean and tidy but you cannot guarantee your neighbours will do the same. I don't kill ants, I just blow them away.
When I was in JCC, I refused to kill the quail. I got ridiculed by my Sergeant Major, PC and 2IC for being gutless. But I find their reasons very funny...
"...if you don't even have the guts to kill a bird, how can you kill an enemy at the frontline? How can you be an officer?..."
I found it funny and simply brushed it off my mind. I find that killing a bird and a human are totally different issues altogether. It is really funny to have assumed that if you dare to kill a bird, then you dare to kill a human. You guys should have looked at the quails...they know they are going to die. As the cadets pet the quails' heads and their hand ready to go for the neck twist, I could see the quails just close theirs eyes when they no longer feel the petting. In fact some fellow cadets told me they can feel the quails shivering. Then, a verse from (I think it is from) Dhammapada flashes in my mind.
All beings tremble at the face of death
How true.
I don't like the idea to kill some real lives for the sake of training. I think going to war will be a different ball game. As said, the intention is the key thing. How about the old Indian man who is the sole executor in Singapore for the past few decades? He kills real humans. On an interview, he said that when he pulled the gallows, he didn't despise those criminal. To him, it just happened that this is his job and he would not have want to further terrorise or insult those criminals. To let them die in their dignity.
I apologise that I had written such a long post. I believe every buddhist out there face their own challenges in trying to abide the 5 precepts in their day-to-day interaction with other people. It isn't easy. Anything good won't be easy in the first place right? It is a matter of choices. We are buddhists, not Buddhas, we are bound to fail once in awhile.
I think in the daily puja for Theravada Buddhists, the recitation of the 5 precepts in the morning symbolizes a new start, a new-born in the spiritual path daily. I think that is quite a good concept.
You can see it that by taking up the 5 precepts, you are ready to abandon the old you and mould a new you.
That we should, detach the past, and live to the best of everyday, believing and working towards that one day when we all can be perfect.
Sadhu -
hi, in addition to some of the well written replies from cycle and yamizi, just like to add a few points.
For marriage and sex, this is only my opinion. Marriage as a formal thing is cultural, and differs from culture to culture, and that is why the Buddha spoke little about it. What he is more concerned is whether a party is committed and faithful partners. If you are not faithful partners and have sex casually, then that is considered sexual misconduct.
Another thing I think is very important is whether you are ready to start a family. If one of you are still studying, or for some other reasons, cannot afford to raise a family. Then it is advisable to refrain from sex. Use contraception if necessary, please do not end up in a situation having to abort a child that ends up creating much suffering both for the child and the parent. And furthermore creates karma of killing..
As for killing, I also suggested before before:
Ways to get rid of Pests/InsectsHello, my master Ven. Shen Kai offered a solution to Ants and $*$@roaches. He also mentioned about mosquitoes (but I can't remember well for that one). I will summarise a few points below.
Ants - put some Mei2 You2 near their home, they dislike the Mei2 You2 and will definitely move away from their home to somewhere else. To give the ants a sense of direction where to go you may put some food nearby, and they will go and live there. But don't put the food too far as it may be difficult for them to travel that far distance.
$*$@roach - get some empty Wu3 Jia1 Pi2 Jiu3 (a type of Chinese traditional beer?). $*$@roaches love to have a beer and will all go inside. Then you can throw the cans into a dirty place i.e trash can and let them live in their paradise. I don't know about other beers, you all could experiment yourself.
Mosquitoes - I can remember only he mentioend two ways - burning that mosquito 'incense', or using some kind of electronic device that could make them sterilised and not be able to reproduce babies.
So we do not necessarily need to kill them to get rid of the pests. Wisdom will be of good use.My Master taught - to develope Great Compassion one must start by not harming, and protecting animals no matter how tiny they are.
Lastly, drinking for the purpose of intoxication should be avoided (altogether, ideally). If your job requires you to attend entertainment, then you may take the incomplete precepts (first four), and when the conditions arises and allows you to take the 5th precept, you should then refrain from drinking. Even while attending entertainment you should drink as less as possible and avoid intoxication.
Even though these animals may be tiny - if you can kill small animals, one day you might kill bigger animals, then killing humans no longer seem a difficult task to do.
p.s. my internet is still down, im using school network. -
my house also got a lot of ants everywhere...from the studyroom to the kitchen to the bathroom. there was a period of time where i don't even dare to bath due to the ants in the bathroom, but eventually i was so irritated i just went ahead and bath. don't know how many ants died as a result (if any).
anyway, what's mei2 you2? -
mei you is kerosene for everyone infoOriginally posted by annoy-you-must:my house also got a lot of ants everywhere...from the studyroom to the kitchen to the bathroom. there was a period of time where i don't even dare to bath due to the ants in the bathroom, but eventually i was so irritated i just went ahead and bath. don't know how many ants died as a result (if any).
anyway, what's mei2 you2? -
There are some other important points I haven't mention and its all in here:
http://www.jenchen.org.sg/vol7no4a.htm
Five Precepts and Ten Virtuous Deeds are
fundamental to Jen Chen Buddhism
Human beings have one common aspiration, and that is to be happy and blissful. There are methods through which we can acquire happiness and bliss, and more than these. Jen Chen Buddhism is exactly focused at creating a happy and blissful culture for humanity. It advocates that we observe the Five Precepts and perform the Ten Virtuous Deeds, for all goodness shall be duly rewarded. Precepts may appear to restrict our freedom, but in reality they safeguard our blessings. When we can understand this phenomenon, we wish we knew about them sooner!
The Jen Chen Buddhism (Humanity Vehicle Buddhism) advocates to observe the Five Precepts [1] and to perform the Ten Virtuous Deeds [2]. Naturally Jen Chen Buddhism based its fundamentals on the Five Precepts and Ten Virtuous Deeds. In Buddhism “Vinaya” [3] means precepts and disciplines. Of course, every person who is learning and practicing Buddhism has to abide by the Vinaya. But in reality it is not easy, for how many people can do that? Buddhist monks and nuns must observe many precepts and disciplines, and it is no mean feat if the lay-Buddhists can observe just the Five Precepts. A person who cannot even abstain from killing, stealing, sexual misconduct, telling lies and consuming intoxicants, would not qualify to be a lay-Buddhist of the Humanity Vehicle, what more to say about being a Bodhisattva of the Greater Vehicle?
I hope lay-Buddhists understand that they should not be overly ambitious in their cultivation and in the process neglect the fundamentals. The first step is to conscientiously observe the Five Precepts and perform the Ten Virtuous Deeds, and then they can truly call themselves practitioners of the Humanity Vehicle. It would be ideal if everybody observe the Five Precepts and perform the Ten Virtuous Deeds first; and if the conditions and your capacity permit, proceed further to observe the Bodhisattva Precepts and practise the Bodhisattva path of the Greater Vehicle.
All Buddhists need to understand the concept of Vinaya. It consists of two parts: our dignity and demeanour, and the boundary of discipline. We must be dignified in all that we do and under all circumstances in our daily life, including the way we walk, stand, sit and even the way we lie down. We need to be dignified in our speech and actions, and besides
avoiding all evil deeds and performing virtuous deeds, we also need to exercise compassion. Then, we are truly followers of Buddha.
All Buddhists need to observe the Vinaya. However, we are not the Vinaya School of Buddhism which emphasizes precepts and disciplines. Many people are afraid to embrace Buddhism because they are afraid of the many strict precepts and disciplines, and that monks and nuns have to observe hundreds of these. It is a pity that such good Buddhist teachings are rejected because of this reason. Thus, to begin with, it is advisable not to place too much emphasis on precepts and disciplines.
It is not uncommon to hear of husbands encouraging their wives to take refuge in Buddhism, observe the Five Precepts, and the Bodhisattva Precepts. But, when asked why their husbands are not doing the same, a typical reply is that their husbands feel that there are too many precepts and disciplines in Buddhism and as businessmen these precepts and disciplines are an inconvenience to them.
From this point, we can see that many people have misunderstood and are afraid of precepts and disciplines. Jen Chen Buddhism does not use precepts to shackle oneself, but it does not mean that Jen Chen Buddhism does not observe the precepts. On the contrary, precepts are strictly observed. Jen Chen Buddhism, does not refer to them as precepts, but rather as “methods to safeguard blessings”, that is to safeguard the blessings and happiness which we already have. For example, an originally happy and blissful family will become broken if the husband or wife neglects the family by indulging in gambling and drinking, or night-clubbing. Therefore, we say that “to observe the precepts” is the same as to “safeguard our blessings”. Isn’t it a very good thing that we uphold our existing blessing in this manner?
Take another example: If a child shifts a plate that was safely placed in the centre of the table to its edge, the mother will say, “This won’t do! Put it back to the centre.” Of course, the plate is safer when it is in the middle of the table rather than at the edge. Should it drop and shatters, it also means that some of our blessings are expended. If the plate costs a certain amount of money and we need to replace it, then the total damage is doubled. Thus, when we understand this principle, we must be alert and raise our awareness so that regardless of where we are, we are safeguarding our blessings and happiness all the time, and we constantly examine ourselves if our actions are frittering away our blessings. For example, if husbands or wives do not discipline themselves and have no sense of propriety, they casually indulge in extra-marital affairs without regards for the consequences, then they are ruining their own happiness.
Therefore, Jen Chen Buddhism advocates that we constantly safeguard the blessings which we already have. This is the way Jen Chen Buddhism observes the precepts. If we talk about the precepts incessantly, then it discourages people from learning Buddhism. When we understand this principle, we must fulfill our responsibility as a human being, be a good person, learn and practise the teachings of Jen Chen Buddhism, avoid doing all evil deeds, do all good deeds, purify the mind, and safeguard our blessings.
Notes:
[1] The Five Precepts: Refrain from (1) killing, (2) stealing ,(3) lying, (4) sexual misconduct, (5) consumption of intoxicants.
[2] The Ten Virtuous Deeds: Refrain from (1) killing, (2) stealing, (3) sexual misconduct , (4) false speech, (5) frivolous and meaningless talk, (6) double-tongue or tale-bearing, (7) slanderous speech, (
greed, (9) ill will, (10) ignorance or perverted views.
[3] Vinaya: Rules and disciplines, an intuitive apprehension of which, both written and unwritten, enables the individual to act properly under all circumstances.
[4] The Vinaya School of Buddhism: Emphasizes the monastic discipline; founded in China during the Tang Dynasty. -
Originally posted by yamizi:
Hey, thanks for sharing your real-life experiences about drinking here. They help me to understand how buddhists in my country live their lives. Of course, I need to ask and listen to more real-life experiences of as many buddhists as possible.
Hi Spwn,
Just to share my opinion. I think precepts are guidelines to a more ethical living for both laypeople and ordained people. However, since Buddha would have surely understood the more complex challenges that laypeople will face, that is why we are only made to observe (note:not bounded, contracted, vowed) the basic 5 precepts.
For kamma to manifests, the intention is [b]the thing. Whereas upon landing ourselves in difficult situations, we make the best choice out of it. The 5 precepts act as a moral reference for us to make a choice, of course I think the struggle to overcome unwholesome acts will arise when one choose to follow the precepts, however, I don't think we should be vex by it. We have to understand why these precepts exist in the first place.
I see Buddhism as a spiritual teaching that teaches us how to make decision and be responsible for it (be it bad or good choices), instead of afraid or running from it.
Regarding about the 5th precept, I'm not sure with the Theravada Tradition, but in the Mahayana Tradition, it is known as a Zhe Jie (meaning a minor precept as compare to the first 4 precepts). That said, meaning even if you commit it, the so-called kamma is not as serious as the first four, that is traditionally speaking.
I think generally alcohol is harmful to the body. I used to be a regular drinker during my poly days. I drank almost every time I knocked off from my part time job. It is about the company you mix with. When I went into the Army, I sort of get less in touch with that company of friends and only drink occasionally like wedding dinner or some social events, but not as much as I did. Just last few months, after an absence of drinking regularly (lol), I drank again, with empty stomach, vodka neat on the rock. Damn syok. Then less than a week, my gastric starts giving me problems. Sometimes when I had eaten a lot, I still feel hungry, sometimes when I skipped a meal or two, my stomach will be so bloated that I feel like vomitting. Now I have gastric problems, thanks to my drinking. =P
And as AEN would have said before, anyone who is taking meditation seriously should avoid drinking. It is true that the effect of alcohol can really sustain for a few days after you had drank. I am not a serious meditator but I could feel the lethargic, fatigue effect even two days after I had drank (thanks to quitting regular drinking lol).
And not forgetting drinking is not cheap. The cheapest you can get is probably got to coffeeshop and ask for beer. It should be slightly over $7 per bottle now. During my time it was around $6.50 to $6.80.
However, if you are at a social function where everyone is drinking and if you think that by don't drink you are not giving face, then maybe a sip or two would be fine. Of course you can make the call of don't drink at all. I think the idea is that not having drinking as a habit.
As I am riding motorcycle now, that becomes my excuse to tell people that I cannot drink. Haha.[/b]
I too have heard of the 'zhe jie' thing about the 5th precept. But I need more details with different scenarios explained. Thanks for pointing it out.
P.S: A bit off-topic but in the army, drinking and smoking are things that any recruit would pick up easily. Luckily for you, drinking did not become a problem for you in the army as you were able to meet and work together with the right company. Glad for you. ^_^
But from your post, it seems that you have not formally undertaken the 5th precept, so drinking moderately at certain happy occasions like wedding should be ok for most buddhists like you. -
Originally posted by yamizi:
Hey, really thankful here for sharing me in detail about observing the 1st precept while in army. Cos I'm not in a combat vocation, the only things i have to 'kill' are ants when wiping the floors and tables.
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About the 1st precept, I do kill cockroaches. I think the intention is important. I don't kill them out of fun. Because I am concern over the health of my family. Sometimes your house may be clean and tidy but you cannot guarantee your neighbours will do the same. I don't kill ants, I just blow them away.
When I was in JCC, I refused to kill the quail. I got ridiculed by my Sergeant Major, PC and 2IC for being gutless. But I find their reasons very funny...
"...if you don't even have the guts to kill a bird, how can you kill an enemy at the frontline? How can you be an officer?..."
I found it funny and simply brushed it off my mind. I find that killing a bird and a human are totally [b]different issues altogether. It is really funny to have assumed that if you dare to kill a bird, then you dare to kill a human. You guys should have looked at the quails...they know they are going to die. As the cadets pet the quails' heads and their hand ready to go for the neck twist, I could see the quails just close theirs eyes when they no longer feel the petting. In fact some fellow cadets told me they can feel the quails shivering. Then, a verse from (I think it is from) Dhammapada flashes in my mind.
All beings tremble at the face of death
How true.
I don't like the idea to kill some real lives for the sake of training. I think going to war will be a different ball game. As said, the intention is the key thing. How about the old Indian man who is the sole executor in Singapore for the past few decades? He kills real humans. On an interview, he said that when he pulled the gallows, he didn't despise those criminal. To him, it just happened that this is his job and he would not have want to further terrorise or insult those criminals. To let them die in their dignity.
I apologise that I had written such a long post. I believe every buddhist out there face their own challenges in trying to abide the 5 precepts in their day-to-day interaction with other people. It isn't easy. Anything good won't be easy in the first place right? It is a matter of choices. We are buddhists, not Buddhas, we are bound to fail once in awhile.
I think in the daily puja for Theravada Buddhists, the recitation of the 5 precepts in the morning symbolizes a new start, a new-born in the spiritual path daily. I think that is quite a good concept.
You can see it that by taking up the 5 precepts, you are ready to abandon the old you and mould a new you.
That we should, detach the past, and live to the best of everyday, believing and working towards that one day when we all can be perfect.
Sadhu[/b]
The vivid description of the killing of quails touched me a lot. Or should I say it pains and saddens me. But yet I'm thankful that someone is willing to share about it.
Personally, I think you are brave (and kind too) to stand up silently towards your superiors and not be bothered by their remarks. If I were in your situation, I would have done it (because afraid of confinement or make the whole platoon kena punished), but in tears, shivering and having nightmares while asleep.
Hey, even though I feel at times like wanting to kill myself, I too fear pain and death.
I thank Buddha and my past good deeds for not having to learn survival skills in the army. -
Totally agree. My christian cousin tells me the same thing too. Free-thinker friends also tell me they shun Buddhism partly because of the precepts.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:There are some other important points I haven't mention and its all in here:
http://www.jenchen.org.sg/vol7no4a.htm
Five Precepts and Ten Virtuous Deeds are
fundamental to Jen Chen Buddhism
All Buddhists need to observe the Vinaya. However, we are not the Vinaya School of Buddhism which emphasizes precepts and disciplines.
Many people are afraid to embrace Buddhism because they are afraid of the many strict precepts and disciplines, and that monks and nuns have to observe hundreds of these. It is a pity that such good Buddhist teachings are rejected because of this reason. Thus, to begin with, it is advisable not to place too much emphasis on precepts and disciplines.Therefore, Jen Chen Buddhism advocates that we constantly safeguard the blessings which we already have. This is the way Jen Chen Buddhism observes the precepts. If we talk about the precepts incessantly, then it discourages people from learning Buddhism.
Agree. But yet when we introduce Buddhism to others, we cannot avoid talking about the precepts totally. -
I sound hurried and impatient, cos i know that it takes a long time to build up the foundation, and perhaps longer for my case. But in the course of building up that foundation, the storms (evil influences) will come as and when they like. It only takes one moment of carelessness or greed to allow those storms to destroy whatever foundation that you've built.Originally posted by cycle:Yes it is true we can't avoid such evil influences or solicitations as they will come to us even if we holed ourselves up in the mountain nowadays.
But I think sometimes it is not how we can escape away from them, but rather how to stay unmoved when they come to us, or even when we are living among them.
It may sound impossible to a beginner Buddhist and extremely difficult to most of us but it can be done.
Buddhadharma really shows us the way to achieve this.
Follow the Dharma step by step, don't be too hurry n impatient, build up from the foundation, it may take a long time but you will see the difference as you will realise that your vexations in life and defilments gradually reducing.
So don't give up on ourselves.
He whose mind does not flutter by contact with worldly contingencies, sorrowless, stainless and secure - this is the Highest Blessing!
~ The Buddha
Don't misunderstand, I don't really intend to give up totally, but I may give up partially when I see that I have failed and succumbed to evil influences. I may even end up in jail or become sentenced to death or beaten to death.
I'm just sharing about my own struggles as a beginner buddhist with average mental and emotional resilience. -
Will go check out the link you give and research on more methods to steer insects away when cleaning the house. The methods that you have posted above, I think only one about ants is easy to do for me and my family, for now.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:hi, in addition to some of the well written replies from cycle and yamizi, just like to add a few points.
For marriage and sex, this is only my opinion. Marriage as a formal thing is cultural, and differs from culture to culture, and that is why the Buddha spoke little about it. What he is more concerned is whether a party is committed and faithful partners. If you are not faithful partners and have sex casually, then that is considered sexual misconduct.
Another thing I think is very important is whether you are ready to start a family. If one of you are still studying, or for some other reasons, cannot afford to raise a family. Then it is advisable to refrain from sex. Use contraception if necessary, please do not end up in a situation having to abort a child that ends up creating much suffering both for the child and the parent. And furthermore creates karma of killing..
As for killing, I also suggested before before:
Ways to get rid of Pests/Insects
Lastly, drinking for the purpose of intoxication should be avoided (altogether, ideally). If your job requires you to attend entertainment, then you may take the incomplete precepts (first four), and when the conditions arises and allows you to take the 5th precept, you should then refrain from drinking. Even while attending entertainment you should drink as less as possible and avoid intoxication.
p.s. my internet is still down, im using school network.
You see, the ants in my house crawl about anywhere, regardless of whether there is food. It is not uncommon to even wake in the morning to find one or two ants that are drowned in the drinking pot inside the kitchen. It's just plain drinking water! But my mom, who's a Buddhist too, objects to designating any corner of the kitchen as a food corner for ants or pests.
My mom's terribly afraid of cokroaches and the best she can do now is not to kill them at sight with insecticides. Leaving beer cans is out of the question for her as she is a tidy person at the same time.
Mosquitoes incense is harmful to human beings as well, in the long run. So you save insects, but harm humans? -
Hi, yah I also felt sadness reading about shooting the quails...Originally posted by Spnw07:Personally, I think you are brave (and kind too) to stand up silently towards your superiors and not be bothered by their remarks. If I were in your situation, I would have done it (because afraid of confinement or make the whole platoon kena punished), but in tears, shivering and having nightmares while asleep.
Hey, even though I feel at times like wanting to kill myself, I too fear pain and death.
mmmh...how to put it...? I just wish to say that whenever you feel pain, despair, hopeless, or any immense sadness or emotional turmoil, please breathe slowly and deeply, and chant the name of Buddha or any Boddhisattva whom you have affinity with. Chant slowly and clearly word by word, imprint every sound you chanted ( can be silently) into your mind. Please try it.
Life is precious. It can be beautiful if we want it to. -
Looks like you are very troubled by pests in your house.Originally posted by Spnw07:Will go check out the link you give and research on more methods to steer insects away when cleaning the house. The methods that you have posted above, I think only one about ants is easy to do for me and my family, for now.
You see, the ants in my house crawl about anywhere, regardless of whether there is food. It is not uncommon to even wake in the morning to find one or two ants that are drowned in the drinking pot inside the kitchen. It's just plain drinking water! But my mom, who's a Buddhist too, objects to designating any corner of the kitchen as a food corner for ants or pests.
My mom's terribly afraid of cokroaches and the best she can do now is not to kill them at sight with insecticides. Leaving beer cans is out of the question for her as she is a tidy person at the same time.
Mosquitoes incense is harmful to human beings as well, in the long run. So you save insects, but harm humans?
And since most methods you think are not suitable for you or you mom, then it seem that nothing can be done at the moment. In that case, I guess you just have to leave it as it is for the time being. Don't be too vexed by the problem since it is not so life threathening. Then try to live in harmony with them.
Don't put ypurselves in a fix.
Well, long ago in our Kampong, everyone used to have ants n cokroacches everywhere inside our houses too. Just remember to put your food in the refrigerator or covered them up properly, rinse again your plates n bowls or cups n cutlery before using them, ok? -
I'm troubled because I have a small wish to take the 5 precepts in the future. I have been killing insects, mostly half-deliberately and half accidentally since I was small. The karma accumulated can be small in comparison to killing human beings, but nevertheless, the karma will eventually lead to a painful death or suffering in my present life or future rebirths.Originally posted by cycle:Looks like you are very troubled by pests in your house.
And since most methods you think are not suitable for you or you mom, then it seem that nothing can be done at the moment. In that case, I guess you just have to leave it as it is for the time being. Don't be too vexed by the problem since it is not so life threathening. Then try to live in harmony with them.
Don't put ypurselves in a fix.
Well, long ago in our Kampong, everyone used to have ants n cokroacches everywhere inside our houses too. Just remember to put your food in the refrigerator or covered them up properly, rinse again your plates n bowls or cups n cutlery before using them, ok?
But thanks for your advice and words of encouragement. Appreciate it. -
Hi Spwn07,
For the quail part, to my surprise, there were other cadets who chose not to kill. I was among the first few who voiced our opposition. But well that's in the past.
So what is to take 5 precepts formally? Going through the right rituals? Or simply to start making a conscious effort in observing them? I can say that I convert to a buddhist when I was age 17. I'm 25 now. I only took my refuge and precept when I turned 22. But that to me was only a ceremony. I took it because I had wanted my parents to take refuge (they are illiterate folks) and don't really know what is Dhamma. So going through the ceremony becomes a faith-affirmation procedure for them to remember it.
I know of people, who took refuge, take precept, end up also convert to christianity upon marriage. What is the point of the ceremony then?
I believe the essential part of Buddhism is back to the quality of our hearts and minds. Ceremonies are just protocols, not saying they are insignificant, but is how we observe our minds and apply the buddhist teachings into our lives.
One of a Bhante I know, knew someone, who belongs to a unique religion in a certain region in the world, where to convert out of their original religion seems to be impossible as it is believed to be illegal. Somehow that guy came across Buddhism during his tertiary days and really find it a more logical and sound alternative. He asked the Bhante for a solution due to his trapped identity, the Bhante then told him, just observed the qualities of his heart and mind. And that to have kind thoughts and let the thoughts flow to be his actions and speechs. Ceremonies, putting buddhism on IDs, all these are not as important as looking after the state of his heart and mind.
I think it is a very good epitome of what Buddhism is.
If taking 5 precepts seriously really disturbed your mind, you should consider that whether or not you should relook into what precepts are and that why is your mind disturbed by them.
I remember I spoke to AEN's teacher before, she told me that "Xiu1 Xing2 Yin1 Kai1 Shi1 Kuai4 Le4 De1". Practising should be a happy experience. Of course we are bound to face hindrances but generally we should be happy. If we are unhappy with what we practice, we should really relook and reconsider why we are not.