A cruel scene in singapore
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Well assuming you save the fish, etc, what are you going to do? Release them back into the ocean?Originally posted by annoy-you-must:We do not need to eat the fish to stay alive. Vegetables are enough. Besides, as thinking humans, it takes us a concious intention to kill the fish this way.
Predators in the sea are different. It's their instint to kill. They have to kill and eat to survive. They have no choice. We have.
Sometime when I see such things, I feel like buying all the animals (be it fish, crab, frogs or whatever) to prevent them from being tortured and killed. But then I don't know how to handle them after buying them...
Then that would result in the prey of such creatures in that region of the sea getting eaten at a higher rate, and if they have any consciousness, they would blame you for the releasing of these creatures into the place they live in.
If not, then what would you do? Keep them at home? And then they die coz of overcrowding, of you not being able to take adequate care of them, etc. -
By the way, barracudas zip thru and bite fishes into half.
Bears rip and tear flesh from still alive salmons.
Lions eat their prey when they are still alive and conscious sometimes.
Nature can be more cruel than human beings. -
Hope the fish goto heaven. Ohm ma ni pad mi hom.
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Everything is destinated, so is fish, you, me, everything in the earth
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even if u feel pity for the fish, what can u do ? Create campaign? Get a life..The butcher chop the fishes, then he will get his punishment for not giving the fishes a good death.. why u bother so much since u cant do much ?
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If human has no choice but to eat the fish to survive, we can always kill the fish in a quicker way.Originally posted by aremeis:I think there is no other way to kill live fish. You may not like what u see here but what other better ways can u think of.
As for the life issue. I see it that we need to accept the fact that a life has been taken for the benefit of another (all humans incl. you and me). A benefit has been received as a result of this sacrifice and so what are we doing to contribute back to this society? Do good of cos, right>>?
So don't be so taken in and look on the brighter and broader picture. -
Karma is not predestination.Originally posted by extrinsic:Everything is destinated, so is fish, you, me, everything in the earth
See http://buddhism.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=293935 -
What benefit is there here? As I've said, we don't have to kill and eat fish to survive. But we kill and eat them just to satisfy our greed and selfish desire for their meat. The fish is sacrificed for our own selfish desire? I hardly see this as a contribution.Originally posted by aremeis:I think there is no other way to kill live fish. You may not like what u see here but what other better ways can u think of.
As for the life issue. I see it that we need to accept the fact that a life has been taken for the benefit of another (all humans incl. you and me). A benefit has been received as a result of this sacrifice and so what are we doing to contribute back to this society? Do good of cos, right>>?
So don't be so taken in and look on the brighter and broader picture.
Optimisim is not about lying to oneself. It's about beliving and recognising that we can do something about the problem. -
If everybody say they can't do much, then nothing much can be done. No dictator is overthrown by a single person. It's only when everybody do something then can the cumilated effect be felt.Originally posted by Zarks:even if u feel pity for the fish, what can u do ? Create campaign? Get a life..The butcher chop the fishes, then he will get his punishment for not giving the fishes a good death.. why u bother so much since u cant do much ?
Create a campaign? Why not? By teaching others to be compassionate and emphatatic towards all animals, we are saving both humanity and the animals. -
Yes, I agree that one way or another, the fish is going to die sooner or later.Originally posted by soul_rage:Well assuming you save the fish, etc, what are you going to do? Release them back into the ocean?
Then that would result in the prey of such creatures in that region of the sea getting eaten at a higher rate, and if they have any consciousness, they would blame you for the releasing of these creatures into the place they live in.
If not, then what would you do? Keep them at home? And then they die coz of overcrowding, of you not being able to take adequate care of them, etc.
So is you. Whether or not I leave you alone, you're going to die sonner or later. So I might as well kill you first right?
If we have the ability to save a life as much as we can, why not? True, we cannot save everybody for eternity but whatever little we can do, we do. -
yesterday at some teppanyaki restaurant i was at, there was a lobster on a tray behind the chef. its moving one of its leg but very slowly meaning its still alive. then the chef put it upside down on the cooking area n sliced it in half in one clean movement. u see the people sitting around very shocked. then he quickly covered the lobster with a round metal bowl thingy.
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No good. First of all, any killing is cruel. And other than the killing of the lobster by the butcher, the customers will also share karma for this by ordering it, because it is ordering it to be killed. Secondly, by witnessing the killing of our food, also makes the meat impure.Originally posted by qrex:yesterday at some teppanyaki restaurant i was at, there was a lobster on a tray behind the chef. its moving one of its leg but very slowly meaning its still alive. then the chef put it upside down on the cooking area n sliced it in half in one clean movement. u see the people sitting around very shocked. then he quickly covered the lobster with a round metal bowl thingy.
Five Clean Sources of Meat (article)
...Buddha understands the ignorance and habits of sentient beings that have accumulated from aeons of their many past lives. In order to provide sentient beings with an expedient means of embracing Buddhism, those who are not able to convert to a vegetarian diet on a long term basis are permitted to consume meat provided:
(1) That he did not slaughter the animal personally
(2) That he did not instruct others to slaughter
(3) That the slaughter was not committed for his sake
(4) That he did not witness the slaughter
(5) That he did not hear the cries associated with the slaughter...
That is why ordered seafood is not Pure Meat. Frozen meat can at least be considered 'clean meat' -- it is not direct killing, so the karma is not so strong. Nevertheless it is still killing so being vegetarian is best. But not everyone wants to be a vegetarian, so the least is we must try eat only the 5 clean meat. I myself try to abide by this, as I am not a vegetarian. -
How true and if Man isn't considered part and parcel of the natural cycle then why allow Man the mental capacity to be cruel?Originally posted by soul_rage:By the way, barracudas zip thru and bite fishes into half.
Bears rip and tear flesh from still alive salmons.
Lions eat their prey when they are still alive and conscious sometimes.
Nature can be more cruel than human beings. -
By your logic, Man is meant to murder people because they have the mental capacity to murder people.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:How true and if Man isn't considered part and parcel of the natural cycle then why allow Man the mental capacity to be cruel? -
A karma need to meet the right condition in order to generate the effect.Originally posted by cheskiz:This is just part of the fish karma, why have to get so uptight, not like you can change anything.
Yes, you can buy all of the creatures and set them free, but how many can you save?
If we refrain from torturing the fishes, then the condition will become insufficient and the fish will be saved at least for now.
Then when they reborn to a realm that allows them to get to know dharma, they will know how to repent in order to distinguish their bad karma.
I don't know how many I can save, but surely we won't stop doing a good thing just because there are many other good things waiting for us to do, right? -
we are on top of the food chain
that is all i have to know -
That's not my pointOriginally posted by annoy-you-must:Yes, I agree that one way or another, the fish is going to die sooner or later.
So is you. Whether or not I leave you alone, you're going to die sonner or later. So I might as well kill you first right?
If we have the ability to save a life as much as we can, why not? True, we cannot save everybody for eternity but whatever little we can do, we do.
I refer back to my posting
"Then that would result in the prey of such creatures in that region of the sea getting eaten at a higher rate, and if they have any consciousness, they would blame you for the releasing of these creatures into the place they live in. "
The saving of one life could result in the death of many others. So what are you going to say about the creatures that die because of you releasing a fish you saved into the habitat of other creatures which the fish feed on?
By saving one, you could have killed tens or hundreds or even thousands. So is saving the fish good or bad karma? -
Why does eating vegetables not constitute bad karma?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:No good. First of all, any killing is cruel. And other than the killing of the lobster by the butcher, the customers will also share karma for this by ordering it, because it is ordering it to be killed. Secondly, by witnessing the killing of our food, also makes the meat impure.
Five Clean Sources of Meat (article)
...Buddha understands the ignorance and habits of sentient beings that have accumulated from aeons of their many past lives. In order to provide sentient beings with an expedient means of embracing Buddhism, those who are not able to convert to a vegetarian diet on a long term basis are permitted to consume meat provided:
(1) That he did not slaughter the animal personally
(2) That he did not instruct others to slaughter
(3) That the slaughter was not committed for his sake
(4) That he did not witness the slaughter
(5) That he did not hear the cries associated with the slaughter...
That is why ordered seafood is not Pure Meat. Frozen meat can at least be considered 'clean meat' -- it is not direct killing, so the karma is not so strong. Nevertheless it is still killing so being vegetarian is best. But not everyone wants to be a vegetarian, so the least is we must try eat only the 5 clean meat. I myself try to abide by this, as I am not a vegetarian.
Maybe vegetables also know pain? -
There are kind people like you around because there are cruel people as well. Yin and Yang always co-exists.
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Dear all ,
judging from the post i saw ,some isnt clear the workings of karma here
and a little knowledge is a dangerous one
setting free to fishes is good deed , it still a good intention
i do not agree if the fish abt to die , we kill it first
in Yogacara teaching we planted seeds for future suffering .by killing ,a seeds is planted ,becos the intention to kill is there
We should just silently pray for the fish to be reborn in Western Paradise
if we really have no means to save the dying fish
I saved a fish on my way home last time on a bus ride , a guppy suddenly jumped out of a man plastic bag and jumping on the floor .I hold it when the bus reaches the river ,but before i could find a waterway for it (which most drain is dry up during the hot season ) the fish tremble ,means its in the last stage of death .
Nevertheless i put the fish in a drain and let the have water in that drain .
I know i have no intention of killing the fish ,and that fish will have a better burial in the water grave then to let it die on the bus -
My apologies. I misunderstood your statement (i thought you meant the released fish is going to be a prey anyway).Originally posted by soul_rage:That's not my point
I refer back to my posting
"Then that would result in the prey of such creatures in that region of the sea getting eaten at a higher rate, and if they have any consciousness, they would blame you for the releasing of these creatures into the place they live in. "
The saving of one life could result in the death of many others. So what are you going to say about the creatures that die because of you releasing a fish you saved into the habitat of other creatures which the fish feed on?
By saving one, you could have killed tens or hundreds or even thousands. So is saving the fish good or bad karma?
However, going by your logic, exterminating lions, tigers, eagles and all carnivorous animals produces good karma?
Perhaps. 'Intention' is the key here. -
Someone please answer this. I've been asked this many times but is unable to give an intelligent reply.Originally posted by soul_rage:Why does eating vegetables not constitute bad karma?
Maybe vegetables also know pain?
'Vegetables also living things what. You eat them you also kill them.' -
First , according to Buddha , and science have found out thatOriginally posted by annoy-you-must:Someone please answer this. I've been asked this many times but is unable to give an intelligent reply.
'Vegetables also living things what. You eat them you also kill them.'
the heart of grass does not have experience, consciousness component and cannot remember well
though some scientist place plants to listen to Mozart ,but how long it take to grow well ? 3 months
if human placed in a music environment,how fast ? faster than that
Plants eating is considered lesser karma ,becos when we harvest the plants
the worms will be killed accidentally
I have a shifu who always ordered this crop of vegetable from Cameroon Highland which the family chant Great Compassion Mantra with ordinary water to spray without the fertiliser and pesticide
remember intention is STILL CENTRAL OF BUDDHA TEACHING
we want to kill animal , but does the animal remember who his slayer is ?
yes
thats why the karma is heavy and next life we will encounter ppl chasing for our lives -
The slaughter is committed for those who wants to eat meat. Except that the slaughter is done first, then see who wants to buy. So how can say not commited for his sake?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:(3) That the slaughter was not committed for his sake
In Buddha's time, he wasn't earning, so he couldn't be too choosy about the food given by others.
But now, most of us makes a living and can actually choose to buy or not. -
I find it funny and not cruel though. I ate goose's legs in china few years ago. The goose were made to run in an enclosed area. They had to run around as they were on red hot burning charcoal. LOL. Having being cooked, their legs were chopped off. Can you imagine a live goose without legs?