A cruel scene in singapore
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Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
u see the Summary or not? not even same with omnivore le. chimpanzees, orang utans, bononbos are omnivores. i saw documentries that they eat termites for the protein, as they don't know how to choose. recently also started to kill each other for meat.
Mdm, are we doing the right comparisions? Did we compare against the chimpanzees, orang utans, bononbos? They are mainly herbivores but always suppliment their diet with meat. Considering the protein intake versus muscle exhaustion and social competition, it is required to do so. Human are the closest living relations in anatomy to the above apes but nevertheless we are never primary carnivores but anatomical omnivores as we usually take in vegetables with meat in our diet.
unlike human, we more smarted and moral.
if we don't have morality, than u can compare us with animals.
i rather compare with the higher hierarchy. devas smell meat from a distant only, quickly run away.
me sir btw.
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Sorry sir, different story lah about devas and apes. Can you show me a deva? Comparing apes and humans are the closest we can get to comparing similar sentient beings.Originally posted by sinweiy:u see the Summary or not? not even same with omnivore le. chimpanzees, orang utans, bononbos are omnivores. i saw documentries that they eat termites for the protein, as they don't know how to choose. recently also started to kill each other for meat.
unlike human, we more smarted and moral.
if we don't have morality, than u can compare us with animals.
i rather compare with the higher hierarchy. devas smell meat from a distant only, quickly run away.
me sir btw.
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Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
understand. can't blame u.
Sorry sir, different story lah about devas and apes. Can you show me a deva? Comparing apes and humans are the closest we can get to comparing similar sentient beings.
according to Buddhism, devas are too invisible to show. sorry.Four Modes Of Birth
http://www.kmspks.org/activities/bbc/bbc6.htm
Buddhism states that there are four modes of birth - namely :
egg-born beings (andaja)
womb-born beings (jalabuja)
moisture-born beings (samsedaja)
beings having spontaneous births (opapatika)
This broad classification embraces the 4 modes of birth of all living beings.
Birds and oviparous snakes belong to the first division.
The womb-born creatures comprise all human beings,
some devas inhabiting the earth,
and some animals that take conception in a motherÂ’s womb.
Embryos, using moisture as nidus for their growth,
like certain lowly forms of animal life, belong to the third class.
Beings having a spontaneous birth are generally invisible to the physical eye.
Conditioned by their past Kamma, they appear spontaneously,
without passing through an embryonic stage.
Petas and Devas normally, and Brahmas belong to this class.
also
"Now there comes a time, Vasettha, when after a long period of time this world expands. When the world expands beings for the most part fall from the realm of Radiance and come here; and they exist made of mind, feeding on joy, self-luminous, moving through the air, constantly beautiful; thus they remain for a long, long time. Now at that time, all had become one world of water dark, and of darkness that maketh blind. No moon nor sun appeared no stars were seen, nor constellations, neither was night manifest nor day, neither months nor half-months, neither years nor seasons, neither female nor male. Beings were reckoned just as beings only. And to those beings, Vasettha, sooner or later after a long time, earth with its savors was spread out in the waters. Even as a scum forms on the surface of boiled milky rice that is cooling, so did the earth appear. ~ Aganna Sutta"
"realm of Radiance" is actually refering to 16)Devas of Unbounded Radiance (appamanabha deva)
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sagga/loka.html
ie we "evolve" from devas, and they prefer a nice fragrance food. fyi.
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Originally posted by sinweiy:
Hey, boss, devas are non-manifesting entities so please don't claim relation to devas as humans are manifesting entities.
http://www.kmspks.org/activities/bbc/bbc6.htm
also
"Now there comes a time, Vasettha, when after a long period of time this world expands. When the world expands beings for the most part fall from the [b]realm of Radiance and come here; and they exist made of mind, feeding on joy, self-luminous, moving through the air, constantly beautiful; thus they remain for a long, long time. Now at that time, all had become one world of water dark, and of darkness that maketh blind. No moon nor sun appeared no stars were seen, nor constellations, neither was night manifest nor day, neither months nor half-months, neither years nor seasons, neither female nor male. Beings were reckoned just as beings only. And to those beings, Vasettha, sooner or later after a long time, earth with its savors was spread out in the waters. Even as a scum forms on the surface of boiled milky rice that is cooling, so did the earth appear. ~ Aganna Sutta"
"realm of Radiance" is actually refering to 16)Devas of Unbounded Radiance (appamanabha deva)
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sagga/loka.html
ie we "evolve" from devas, and they prefer a nice fragrance food. fyi.
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Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
i said 'according to Buddhism' and this is a Buddhism forum.
Hey, boss, devas are non-manifesting entities so please don't claim relation to devas as humans are manifesting entities.
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As entities not to be taken literally lah as true but something to describe the spiritual world mah.Originally posted by sinweiy:i said 'according to Buddhism' and this is a Buddhism forum.
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Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
if not true, describe for what?
As entities not to be taken literally lah as true but something to describe the spiritual world mah.
i don't think they are just metaphor.
The Thirty-one Planes of Existence
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sagga/loka.html
i think they are real and can also be seen as various mind-states. and yet they are also as "unreal" as we are "unreal", from the emptiness perspective. all and all, depending on which angle we look.
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Prove to me spiritual world exists beyond doubt.Originally posted by sinweiy:if not true, describe for what?
i don't think they are just metaphor.
The Thirty-one Planes of Existence
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sagga/loka.html
i think they are real and can also be seen as various mind-states. and yet they are also as "unreal" as we are "unreal", from the emptiness perspective. all and all, depending on which angle we look.
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Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
"seeing" is believing..i can't "see" for u though.
Prove to me spiritual world exists beyond doubt.
by "see" i mean comprehend.
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Don't make your problem into my problem. Thank you.Originally posted by sinweiy:"seeing" is believing..i can't "see" for u though.
by "see" i mean comprehend.
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Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
ah, but i don't have problem with them, in terms of conviction le.
Don't make your problem into my problem. Thank you.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn48/sn48.044.than.html"Those who have not known, seen, penetrated, realized, or attained it by means of discernment would have to take it on conviction in others that the faculty of conviction... persistence... mindfulness... concentration... discernment, when developed & pursued, gains a footing in the Deathless, has the Deathless as its goal & consummation; whereas those who have known, seen, penetrated, realized, & attained it by means of discernment would have no doubt or uncertainty "
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Duh... You have to have blind faith, ie take it by conviction.Originally posted by sinweiy:/\ -
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
not taking it by conviction doesn't mean one is free from blind faith either.
You have to have blind faith, ie take it by conviction.
anyway:-
Faith (saddhâ / úraddhâ) is an important constituent element of the teachings of the Buddha - both in the Theravada tradition and especially in the Mahayana. Some of the first words which the Buddha is alleged to have spoken after deciding to teach Dharma (Truth) to the world were: "Wide opened is the door of the Immortal to all who have ears to hear; let them send forth faith [saddha] to meet it." (Mahavagga, I, 5,11; Vinaya Texts, T.W. Rhys Davids, Motilal Banarsidass, Delhi 1996, p. 88 ). It betokens faith in the reliability of the Buddha as a truly Awakened guide and confident trust in the truth of the Buddha's teachings (his Dharma). It can be inspired in part by the charisma of the Buddha himself. Buddhists claim that it is certainly not "blind faith" in just anyone and anything.
In the Kalama Sutta the Buddha himself argues against "blind faith" based simply on authority, tradition or specious reasoning; but Gautama, the Buddha himself, and his Buddhism are exempted by Buddhists from this prohibition: for even though one's own experience is emphasized in accepting Buddha and Buddhism, the counsel of the wise (implicitly meaning a Buddha, ultimately Gautama himself, or a Buddhist master well versed in Dharma) should always be depended upon -- whence there remains a requirement for a degree of trusting confidence in Buddhism, essentially in the authority of Gautama as the ultimate Buddha, based on his spiritual attainment and salvational knowledge.
Faith in Buddhism centres on the authority of Gautama as a supremely Awakened being, by assenting to his unexcelled role as teacher of both humans and gods, to the truth of his Dharma (spiritual Doctrine), and in accepting the Sangha (community of spiritually developed followers). Faith in Buddhism can be said to function as a form of motor, which propels the Buddhist practitioner towards the goal of Awakening (bodhi) and Nirvana.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faith_in_Buddhism
you do need a small leap of faith in the beginning. like babies learning to walk. they try and error. one small step is a leap of faith for the baby. and it's okay to take a few falls. then after some time, the walking become true Conviction.
then one must ask, is one interested in learning Buddhism?
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Like I said many times, in Buddhism, faith is required but not blind faith.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:Duh... You have to have blind faith, ie take it by conviction.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
http://www.buddhanet.net/cbp2_f5.htm
[b]The Unification of Faith (s. sraddha) and Wisdom (s. prajna)
People are of varying natures and types and thus have different temperaments, worries, demands and passions. In general, one who has stronger feeling and sentiment is more likely to be compassionate and is more capable of developing strong faith in oneÂ’s belief; while an intellectual person tends to have greater powers of discernment and lucid comprehension. The biased development of either faith or intellect results in protracted, cumulative, negative and harmful effects. For example, if an emotional person has strong faith without counter-balancing wisdom, he may sink into ignorance and superstition due to his fanatical faith. The lop-sided attitude of discriminating against rationality and wisdom is not acceptable in Buddhism. On the other hand, if we over-emphasize rationality and doubting everything, we will lose our faith and belief. This induces us to ignore moral values and to deny the existence of Universal Truth, saints and sages. One would thereby finally become anti-religious. Such perversity would lead us astray and prevent us from establishing truly moral behavior, eventually threatening the very fabric of our society! Thus, there is a saying in Buddhism,
"Faith without wisdom will develop ignorance;
wisdom without faith will develop a perverted view."
Buddhism advocates the unification of faith and wisdom. How can we bring faith and wisdom together? Is it possible to unify them? In the first place, we need to understand the Buddhist perspective of faith and wisdom. Faith is characterized by the sentiments of respect and of inspiration by an ideal. Faith is a common experience amongst the followers of any religion. Faith without intellectual comprehension and discrimination cannot be regarded as a rational faith. Faith in Buddhism is developed through contemplation and investigation so that the characteristics of truthfulness, righteousness, and efficacy of the ideal in which one develops faith, can be understood and revealed. This is the way a Buddhist develops faith and respect toward Sakyamuni Buddha. Sakyamuni is understood rationally to have existed in this world as a historical figure. He has supreme wisdom and great virtues and he has boundless compassion working towards the liberation of sentient beings. In Buddhism, faith is rooted in rational intellectual comprehension. As faith is strengthened and sharpened by the assessment of the intellect, it is further confirmed by the direct insight of wisdom. When understanding of the Buddha Dharma is developed further, faith becomes more intense. This faith will motivate us to elevate ourselves and ground our lives in true morality. It will enable our lives, guided by the ideals to which we have responded with faith. Faith is not merely an appreciation of the ideal but a desire to move towards it.
Although some intellectuals possess a vast knowledge of Buddhism, and have strong reasoning ability, they commonly lack faith in Buddhism. Therefore, Dharma can not take firm root and grow in their hearts. Because of this, Dharma cannot really benefit them. Studying Buddhism in this barren manner contradicts the teaching of Buddhism because the Buddhist way of life necessarily contains the element of faith. When we have confidence, we will be able to purify our minds and free them from defilements i.e. greed (s. raga), hatred (s. pratigha) and ego-conceptualization (s. atmamana). Confidence is like an alum; it purifies muddy water. Similarly, a strong faith will purify your mind. The reality of life is full of distress and misery, but faith can transform a mental state of emptiness and anguish into joy, peace, calm and contentment. This is like an innocent child who wanders around the streets, lost, hungry, thirsty, cold, worried and not knowing what to do. While he is anxious and filled with despair, he suddenly finds his mother. He will immediately feel secure and happy because he deeply believes that he will obtain food, warm clothes and the consolation of his motherÂ’s love. Similarly, a life of faith is filled with joy, peace, security and contentment.
If our faith is not developed through open thinking and reasoning, then we are just following what others lead us to believe. A blind religious faith becomes fanatical when it is carried away by wild enthusiasm and the deprecation of wisdom. Buddhist faith develops through the cultivation of wisdom. Since it espouses a faith wedded to wisdom, Buddhism avoids the viciousness of that religious fanaticism which espouses faith devoid of deeper understanding and divorced from wisdom. The development of Buddhist faith involves several stages. The evolving faith displayed by some Buddhists does not therefore necessarily reveal the true, ultimate meaning of faith in the Buddha Dharma.
The most outstanding characteristic of wisdom is free thought and its operative functions include understanding and cognition. The wisdom of humanity extends through space to the farthest reaches of the Universe. Our knowledge is continuously changing, improving and progressing. Therefore traditions may not necessarily be reliable. This is due to the fact that when humans develop knowledge acquired through their own perceptions of the external world, much unreliable information is accumulated in the process. Such empirical knowledge is vitiated because the pieces of information from which it is derived are in turn derived from sensory perceptions of the external world, and both the ordinary mind and the external world are comprised of, and compromised by, a certain degree of illusion. For example, when we are perceiving the external world we cannot know our minds at the same moment. Therefore, we are tempted by the external world and our minds are controlled by the material world. Since we lose control of our minds, greed, hatred and ignorance arise. In Buddhism it is acknowledged that the knowledge gained by human beings is far superior to that gained by other beings. We humans almost try to know everything, yet we do not know ourselves. This is a cognitive bias of ours. When we try to understand the external world we lack the ability to have a complete overview of it. Everything in the phenomenal world is impermanent and constantly changing, but we are always subjectively inferring about the nature of objects that this is their absolute existence and that they will be as they are forever. As a result, human knowledge generally harbors many illusions.
Some people think that Truth lies outside the mind, and they therefore seek it in the external world. Others consider that there is an external metaphysical entity which properly serves as their religious ideal, and the focus of their faith. In fact, all the external worlds are like mirages, unreal and constantly changing. The wisdom which Buddhism teaches starts with self-contemplation and an experience of insight. Truth cannot be simplistically derived from observation of the external world. Rather, Truth requires us to understand ourselves and to grasp our inner nature. Just as a person who has sharp senses and a bright and discerning mind does not need to seek help from others in order to clearly comprehend Truth, we should develop from the inside out so that we can project this luminous understanding and contemplation of ourselves into the dimness of the external world. This is the only way to unify wisdom and faith.
In fact, wisdom and faith are not really in opposition to one another. Conflict will only arise if we practice prejudice against either wisdom or faith. Wisdom without faith is biased towards that which is material. This positivistic emphasis is inimical to religion. Faith without wisdom is biased towards a sentimental faith which is inimical to reason. Buddha Dharma is a unification of wisdom and faith; a faith which is grounded in wisdom, and a wisdom which emphasizes human life and self-effort. Faith is thereby kept away from illusion. Wisdom and faith are mutually grounded. If we can understand, experience and practice this path, life will be filled with infinite brightness and cheer.[/b] -
Yoh boss, as sinweiy has posted before, the first few steps are always blind(blind faith). However, when one wants to discover more truths out there but can't even cross the threshold of blind faith for the first few steps, then the truth is nothing to them which also holds true.Originally posted by An Eternal Now: -
you're gonna get sued by the market for mentioning their name, better edit it bro.
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i prefer calling it "leap of faith" than the word "blind".
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More like leaping from the frying pan into the fire.Originally posted by sinweiy:i prefer calling it "leap of faith" than the word "blind".
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Just joking, it's the believer or unbeliever's preference.
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nvm, guess u are not interested in any way. take care.
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You also take care.Originally posted by sinweiy:nvm, guess u are not interested in any way. take care.
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The world is always an evil one, no matter how you justify it. There are many acts of evil, which is why this world is seen as impure and unruly by all highlly cultivated people. Sakyamuni Buddha himself sees those who understand the truth as a lotus which grows out of mud. The mud represents this dirty world, and the lotus represents serenity and purity. Lotus is considered precious and wonderful because its muddy surrounding would let it grow into a lotus, while the rest are all mud. That is why in Buddhism often lotus is highly praised.