Your thoughts and feelings about this verse
-
Monsieur, basis of Buddhism, not basic. Which a bikhu said that if presenting ideas and thoughts in English, please use proper English else great confusion may develope.Originally posted by Isis:Hi,
Karma is not fixed and it is too early to say that you will go to hell.
Don't think too much which can lead to ceaseless worry and unnecessarily speculation. Don't create stress for yourself.
Why not go into the four noble truth and the eightfold path, the very basic of buddhism? Personally the four noble truth really convince me why i should be a buddhist.
If you are not comfortable with these thought, can try repentance. -
Well, there are many examples provided in different sutras preached by the Buddha that mentions how people with many years of cultivation can fall to the 3 evil realms with one wrong thought or action. The Earth-Store Bodhisattva just happens to mention about hell and its various punishments in detail, particularly about the Avici hell, the deepest hell one can fall into for unforgivable deeds like killing parents or saints.Originally posted by Isis:Hi,
Karma is not fixed and it is too early to say that you will go to hell. Don't think too much which can lead to ceaseless worry and unnecessarily speculation. Don't create stress for yourself.
Why not go into the four noble truth and the eightfold path, the very basic of buddhism? Personally the four noble truth really convince me why i should be a buddhist.
If you are not comfortable with these thought, can try repentance.
It is comforting in a way that a fellow Buddhist is willing to say such words to me, to allay my fears. Whether I will really go to hell, I'm not sure too. I was merely judging my 'fate' based on what is described in the sutras.
I understand your point of not creating unnecessary stress for myself and repenting for my sins. However, it is not easy to shake off that feeling of uneasiness, while struggling frantically to keep all my evil thoughts in check at the same time.
If you do meet a fellow Buddhist who is having the same thoughts and feelings, do reach out to him/her patiently as you did for me.
What did not succeed for one may succeed for another. Such is the uniqueness and complexity of the karma of all sentient beings.
-
I do feel that I have been maintaining a open mind when it comes to listening to different venerables, hopefully. Unfortunately, I don't really have much trust in my spiritual wisdom to investigate and discern various teachings at this stage of my spiritual learning.Originally posted by Isis:hmm you shouldn't be worrying too much about different venerables having different views in certain versesand concepts of buddhist. I feel you are creating unnecessary stress created by yourself.
Just be more open-minded and use your own wisdom to investigate and to discern the teaching. As you go deeper into it, your understanding will improve as time goes by.
Anyway, it is really good to ask questions to clear any doubts cos enlightened beings have a clearer understanding in the essence of the teaching. In addition, It is not easy to encounter a good teacher, so grab the chance to ask the question that has been buggin u.
Perhaps it is ourselves who do not clearly comprehend/perceive the concept of what the venerable is talking about and not because the venerable did not give a clear explaination. Therefore, it is always good to ask to clear the doubts propping in your head.
I agree that it may be me that does not clearly comprehend/perceive the concepts explained, as such I'm not really trying to blame anyone here. It's the mental and emotional struggles from within about how to frame the question in the right way, so that the venerable would not misunderstand the nature of my doubts that partly causes all these stressful thoughts to hold roots inside me.
Off-topic, but one of those reasons why I came into this forum in the first place, was that I had somehow hoped that some venerable would come online to help all here with their doubts and fears. Naive as it may sound, sometimes foolish hope is created inside the inner self for those who are neither diligent nor intelligent.
But I'm not shy when it comes to asking questions in private with a venerable. I just don't ask them during public talks. =p -
If a venerable gave a public talk, and the statements made are posing a problem to the public at large, then your views must be made clear to the venerable there and then.Originally posted by Spnw07:I do feel that I have been maintaining a open mind when it comes to listening to different venerables, hopefully. Unfortunately, I don't really have much trust in my spiritual wisdom to investigate and discern various teachings at this stage of my spiritual learning.
I agree that it may be me that does not clearly comprehend/perceive the concepts explained, as such I'm not really trying to blame anyone here. It's the mental and emotional struggles from within about how to frame the question in the right way, so that the venerable would not misunderstand the nature of my doubts that partly causes all these stressful thoughts to hold roots inside me.
Off-topic, but one of those reasons why I came into this forum in the first place, was that I had somehow hoped that some venerable would come online to help all here with their doubts and fears. Naive as it may sound, sometimes foolish hope is created inside the inner self for those who are neither diligent nor intelligent.
But I'm not shy when it comes to asking questions in private with a venerable. I just don't ask them during public talks. =p -
To me, yes they will enter hell if they do not realize their mistake and repent. The only kind of salvation to them is that they realize that they have done wrong and promise never to do it again. In a certain extend, i feel that you dont go hell just because you slander someone. But in an indirect cause, one will go to hell for slandering.
When slandering someone, one becomes proud and therefore look down on other beings. When one look down on other beings, one will think he is superior than others. If one thinks he is superior, he will show no compassion to others and will harm them, thinking they are weak. Once the harming action is done, the karma is there already. Harming others is bad karma. So all this karmas accumulated will send one to hell. Well, thats what i feel.
I dont think that buddha ever said that those who deny the truth will go to hell straight. That is a very christian way to put it. Buddhists are not christians! In fact, the buddha has stated very clearly that we should uphold the truth not because it is the truth, but through our reasoning, and choice. He didnt force us to believe, but rather look through buddhism and decide for ourselves. So how in the way is there that an ignorant person slanders buddhism and will not be given a chance anymore?
I believe everyone in one way or another will realize the truth, in a matter of time. -
Well, probably it's the way that we deny the truth that causes us to act out bad thoughts and hence punishment in hell as a result.Originally posted by wilsonhao:I dont think that buddha ever said that those who deny the truth will go to hell straight. That is a very christian way to put it. Buddhists are not christians! In fact, the buddha has stated very clearly that we should uphold the truth not because it is the truth, but through our reasoning, and choice. He didnt force us to believe, but rather look through buddhism and decide for ourselves. So how in the way is there that an ignorant person slanders buddhism and will not be given a chance anymore?
I believe everyone in one way or another will realize the truth, in a matter of time.
I do not know if you are a Buddhist, but it is recorded in scriptures and related discourses that any form of bad deed done, be it carelessly or deliberately, be it by thoughts, words or action, yields negative karma.
It is not for me to say whether any ignorant person who slanders buddhism by thought, mouth or deed will or will not be given another chance. I was just quoting the scripture as it is and the mentioned verse explained in great details of what happens to those who have only slandered in their mind, not necessarily through the mouth or deeds.
The Bible clearly mentions that those who commit adultery in their mind would have been deemed to have committed adultery in spirit and hence committed sin in the eyes of God.
The above, I believe, is a rather common teaching in most world religions as to the effects and consequences of one's thoughts when relating to the God in their beliefs. Although there is no God in Buddhism, the general principles and rules apply.
My post was to discuss the gravity of the consequences of slandering and to explore other scriptures preached by the Buddha, whether such ignorant people are indeed doomed for eternity, for repentance or any salvation methods is not specifically mentioned after that verse or at the end of the sutra. However an important note is, repentance is always implied in all Buddhist teachings.
Exactly when and how those who have slandered the Dharma or any Bodhisattva or Buddha will be delivered from such severe and long term suffering is really a restricted domain of knowledge of the Buddhas.
I have quoted the Lotus sutra in page 1 of this post which mentioned that after a long time of suffering in the 3 evil realms, those who had slandered the Dharma or a particular Bodhisattava will eventually be delivered by the Bodhisattva who they have slandered against.
I also agree with you and believe that eventually everyone will realise the Truth on their own in their own time.
There is always hope for all of us, for all sentient beings have the Buddha nature in them.