Your views on sacrificial slaughtering of animals
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Originally posted by nightzip:
No amount of prayers can stop the pain and suffering of the animals being slaughtered, so we should avoid participating in any slaughterings.
Second, prayers are said for the lamb before they slaughter them, in fact even more elaborate prayers and thanksgiving for the meat of the lamb during this season than other normal days. Thus, the lamb is "gived" with more prays or "hui xiang". Also, people have the "gan en" or appreciative feeling for the meat.Third, as normally people do not witness the slaughtering of the lambs, so they just eat without feeling the pain and suffering by the lambs when they were being slaughtered. By having people themselves slaughter the lambs and the witnesses, the people, seeing the lamb get killed. They will feel more "gan en" to the lamb and that will also feel sinful, that they "participated" in killing the lamb. Thus, next time, when they eat the lamb, they will feel something. This in buddhism is the idea of "fang sheng". Maybe they may even abstain from lamb meat, or eat less.
Actually, in Buddhism, we should avoid eating the meat that have been slaughtered for us, or was slaughtered by us, or was demanded to be slaughtered by us.
Please read:
Five Clean Sources of Meat
The Buddha-dharma is infinite and there are in reality more than 84,000 Dharma doors, or methods by which we can embark to learn and practise Buddhism. Vegetarianism is just one of the many methods. To refrain from killing is merely a means of assisting us to progress in our cultivation. As a medicine, meat is permitted in the Buddhist precepts if it is required to cure a particular sickness. Buddhism cherishes compassion. However, killing and causing harm to life have their retributions. The world has no peace as victims and villains engage in a vicious cycle of vengeance and revenge, culminating in calamities and disasters, and inflicting suffering and misery across the world.
Buddha understands the ignorance and habits of sentient beings that have accumulated from aeons of their many past lives. In order to provide sentient beings with an expedient means of embracing Buddhism, those who are not able to convert to a vegetarian diet on a long term basis are permitted to consume meat provided:
(1) That he did not slaughter the animal personally
(2) That he did not instruct others to slaughter
(3) That the slaughter was not committed for his sake
(4) That he did not witness the slaughter
(5) That he did not hear the cries associated with the slaughter
To refrain from killing is fundamental to Buddhism. Regardless of life forms, we must not kill, we must not instruct others to kill, and it must not be killed for our sake, for example, to celebrate our birthday or because we were coming to dinner. These are three sources of clean meat.
In Confucianism, benevolence also means to refrain from killing. It is said that heaven has the virtue of loving life. It cannot bear to witness the loss of life, let alone eat the flesh of those whose cries in death we have heard. Buddhism advocates compassion and loving-kindness to all sentient beings, regardless of their relation to you. It is only appropriate that we do not kill for our livelihood or for the purpose of celebrating occasions, such as births, birthdays, funerals or weddings. Meats are no different from the other foodstuffs purchased from the market if people do not witness the killing or hear the cries of the animal that is being slaughtered. If a differentiation between the two kinds of purchases and the taste of the meat do not exist in the mind, then the guilt is lighter. Together with the three mentioned earlier, these constitute the five sources of clean meat.
Meat eating however is a pre-condition to killing. If people refrain from eating meat, there will be no killing of animals for meat. Sadly, the human race has committed killings for aeons and is engaged in an endless cycle of vengeance and revenge over their past lives. For one who is slaughtered for meat in this life, it is probably because he had done the same to others in the past. The score is even, no more and no less.
People who eat meat from the five clean sources are advised to learn to chant the Buddha's name and the Buddhist mantras, so as to transfer the merits to those whose meat they are eating. They should also wish them an early rebirth in the human realm, to eliminate any thoughts of vengeance, to nurture their virtuous roots to benefit all sentient beings and together build a peaceful, caring and blissful pure land in this world. Only when this is promoted across the entire world, will we be able to eliminate hatred and vengeance, and enhance a mind of compassion and loving kindness. In this way we will be able to transform this Saha world into a pure land. -
If you can, that is the best.Originally posted by oOprinceOo:so we'll all go vegetarian.
If you cannot, the least we can do is to eat vegetarian meals on certain dates or every morning. I can't remember the dates.
Gradually increase the habit of eating vegetarian meals until eventually you can make a complete switch. -
I have learned from an early age to abjured the use of meat, and the time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of animals as they now look upon the murder of men. -Leonardo da Vinci
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[quote]Originally posted by Spnw07:
Before I go on, I would like to state that this post is not a direct or indirect attack or criticism of any religion and I have no intention to do so.
I'm just trying to adopt the right mindset towards what I will get to hear or read about wherever I go, Buddhist or not. I also want to react and behave in the right way should I happen to be a live witness of such events.
Officially, Hari Raya Haji has ended with prayers and sacrificial slaughtering of sheep and distribution of fresh meat to needy people.
We all know that every sheep, on the day of Hari Raya Haji, are slaughtered in a halal manner, with prayers and a very quick slash of the animal's windpipe. This is as decreed by their God and accepted as a profound act of Allah's mercy and grace for those who are loyal and obedient to him.
However, now that I'm a Buddhist, it is not easy for me to understand and accept as readily as I would like to - even though I know that prayers are said prior to or during the slaughtering, that such customs can be considered to be without negative karma effects for all those involved, directly or indirectly.
In the Shurangama sutra (leng4 yan2 jing1), there is a verse that says:
[b]"Suppose a person eats a sheep. The sheep dies and becomes a person; the person dies and becomes a sheep, the same applies in all rebirths among the ten categories. Through death after death and birth after birth, they eat each other. The evil karma one is born with continues to the bounds of the future. The basis for all that is stealing and greed.
"‘You owe me a life; I must repay my debt to you.’ Due to such causes and conditions we pass through hundreds of thousands of eons in sustained cycle of birth and death."
So it is correct or appropriate to consider in the context of Buddhist teachings that, the above verse applies to those who slaughters animals as part of their customs or religious practices, even if they had sincerely chanted prayers prior to and during the slaughtering?
Again I must emphasise here that I'm not trying to establish what is right or wrong about the religious or customary practices of others. I just want to know how to look upon such matters in right way as a Buddhist.
It is taught in scriptures that we as Buddha's disciples, should not only avoid killing or harming of any life, we should also try to save lives.
My question is: If you happen to be able to attend and witness the live slaughtering as a Buddhist, what can you or how should you react from within?
First and foremost, you definitely cannot and must not stop them, either physically or verbally. That I'm pretty clear of.
But the Buddha has said that saving a life that is in imminent or immediate danger, takes priority over any kind of prayer or any event that you might have to attend to at the moment.
So personally for me, I think it would be rather uneasy for me to witness the live slaughter, both as a person and a Buddhist. And to ease my uneasiness and helplessness, I would most probably recite the Buddha's name in my heart and dedicate any merit to all those about to be slaughtered.
How or what would you think, feel or do if you happen to be invited to witness such events as a Buddhist?
[/b][/quote
To answer the question , we will have to ask ourselves. What if we are the sheeps to be sacrificed ? Different religions have different practices , but we are buddhists , thus we do not perform sacrificial of animals.
When invited for sacrificial events , just decline and dont bring in religious point of views deliberately . There is no point discussing much with the people who invite you. We just do our part. My personal view.
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Originally posted by Spnw07:
As Buddhist , we dun go and made specific reference to other people religion
Before I go on, I would like to state that this post is not a direct or indirect attack or criticism of any religion and I have no intention to do so.
I'm just trying to adopt the right mindset towards what I will get to hear or read about wherever I go, Buddhist or not. I also want to react and behave in the right way should I happen to be a live witness of such events.
Officially, Hari Raya Haji has ended with prayers and sacrificial slaughtering of sheep and distribution of fresh meat to needy people.
We all know that every sheep, on the day of Hari Raya Haji, are slaughtered in a halal manner, with prayers and a very quick slash of the animal's windpipe. This is as decreed by their God and accepted as a profound act of Allah's mercy and grace for those who are loyal and obedient to him.
However, now that I'm a Buddhist, it is not easy for me to understand and accept as readily as I would like to - even though I know that prayers are said prior to or during the slaughtering, that such customs can be considered to be without negative karma effects for all those involved, directly or indirectly.
In the Shurangama sutra (leng4 yan2 jing1), there is a verse that says:
[b]"Suppose a person eats a sheep. The sheep dies and becomes a person; the person dies and becomes a sheep, the same applies in all rebirths among the ten categories. Through death after death and birth after birth, they eat each other. The evil karma one is born with continues to the bounds of the future. The basis for all that is stealing and greed.
"‘You owe me a life; I must repay my debt to you.’ Due to such causes and conditions we pass through hundreds of thousands of eons in sustained cycle of birth and death."
So it is correct or appropriate to consider in the context of Buddhist teachings that, the above verse applies to those who slaughters animals as part of their customs or religious practices, even if they had sincerely chanted prayers prior to and during the slaughtering?
Again I must emphasise here that I'm not trying to establish what is right or wrong about the religious or customary practices of others. I just want to know how to look upon such matters in right way as a Buddhist.
It is taught in scriptures that we as Buddha's disciples, should not only avoid killing or harming of any life, we should also try to save lives.
My question is: If you happen to be able to attend and witness the live slaughtering as a Buddhist, what can you or how should you react from within?
First and foremost, you definitely cannot and must not stop them, either physically or verbally. That I'm pretty clear of.
But the Buddha has said that saving a life that is in imminent or immediate danger, takes priority over any kind of prayer or any event that you might have to attend to at the moment.
So personally for me, I think it would be rather uneasy for me to witness the live slaughter, both as a person and a Buddhist. And to ease my uneasiness and helplessness, I would most probably recite the Buddha's name in my heart and dedicate any merit to all those about to be slaughtered.
How or what would you think, feel or do if you happen to be invited to witness such events as a Buddhist?
[/b]
even when we are illustrating a teachings of Buddha
remember all this post is monitored by Internal Security Act Singapore
Exercise restrain in freedom of speech before we get called up by Police -
As long as you are not insulting, go ahead and state your idea of truth. ISA is not covering this area. ISA covers area that you purposefully go create a riot with your words.Originally posted by bohiruci:As Buddhist , we dun go and made specific reference to other people religion
even when we are illustrating a teachings of Buddha
remember all this post is monitored by Internal Security Act Singapore
Exercise restrain in freedom of speech before we get called up by Police -
Then why do humans kill humans? Ever ponder on this point?Originally posted by nightzip:humans eat meat and vegetables, this is as such.
Lions, tigers eat meat
Even fishes eat smaller planktons and smaller fishes and shrimps.
Cows and sheeps eat grass, but inside the grass may have bugs, beatles, ants
We eat to survive, no wastage. Life is all encompassing, and never quite ending, cycles.
Please ponder. -
When the doctors come after AEN for endangering their patients' health, we'll see.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:If you can, that is the best.
If you cannot, the least we can do is to eat vegetarian meals on certain dates or every morning. I can't remember the dates.
Gradually increase the habit of eating vegetarian meals until eventually you can make a complete switch. -
Originally posted by Spnw07:
Different religions have their own POVs that may contradict each other... Sacrificial slaughter of animals is allowed in the Islam POV, but that practice is frowned upon in Buddhism. Just like the Buddhist practice of respecting the Buddhas and Bodhisatvas is considered idol worshipping and not allowed in Islam POV.
Before I go on, I would like to state that this post is not a direct or indirect attack or criticism of any religion and I have no intention to do so.
I'm just trying to adopt the right mindset towards what I will get to hear or read about wherever I go, Buddhist or not. I also want to react and behave in the right way should I happen to be a live witness of such events.
Officially, Hari Raya Haji has ended with prayers and sacrificial slaughtering of sheep and distribution of fresh meat to needy people.
We all know that every sheep, on the day of Hari Raya Haji, are slaughtered in a halal manner, with prayers and a very quick slash of the animal's windpipe. This is as decreed by their God and accepted as a profound act of Allah's mercy and grace for those who are loyal and obedient to him.
However, now that I'm a Buddhist, it is not easy for me to understand and accept as readily as I would like to - even though I know that prayers are said prior to or during the slaughtering, that such customs can be considered to be without negative karma effects for all those involved, directly or indirectly.
In the Shurangama sutra (leng4 yan2 jing1), there is a verse that says:
[b]"Suppose a person eats a sheep. The sheep dies and becomes a person; the person dies and becomes a sheep, the same applies in all rebirths among the ten categories. Through death after death and birth after birth, they eat each other. The evil karma one is born with continues to the bounds of the future. The basis for all that is stealing and greed.
"‘You owe me a life; I must repay my debt to you.’ Due to such causes and conditions we pass through hundreds of thousands of eons in sustained cycle of birth and death."
So it is correct or appropriate to consider in the context of Buddhist teachings that, the above verse applies to those who slaughters animals as part of their customs or religious practices, even if they had sincerely chanted prayers prior to and during the slaughtering?
Again I must emphasise here that I'm not trying to establish what is right or wrong about the religious or customary practices of others. I just want to know how to look upon such matters in right way as a Buddhist.
It is taught in scriptures that we as Buddha's disciples, should not only avoid killing or harming of any life, we should also try to save lives.
My question is: If you happen to be able to attend and witness the live slaughtering as a Buddhist, what can you or how should you react from within?
First and foremost, you definitely cannot and must not stop them, either physically or verbally. That I'm pretty clear of.
But the Buddha has said that saving a life that is in imminent or immediate danger, takes priority over any kind of prayer or any event that you might have to attend to at the moment.
So personally for me, I think it would be rather uneasy for me to witness the live slaughter, both as a person and a Buddhist. And to ease my uneasiness and helplessness, I would most probably recite the Buddha's name in my heart and dedicate any merit to all those about to be slaughtered.
How or what would you think, feel or do if you happen to be invited to witness such events as a Buddhist?
[/b]
The fact that we live in a multi-religious secular country, and the fact that Buddhism teaches tolerance and respect for other religions, means that we have to respect their POVs even if they may not be aligned with the teachings of our own.
Under the circumstances, I think you did the right and only thing possible in reciting the Buddha's name and dedicating all merit to all those about to be slaughtered...
What I would do is also to decidcate the said merits to the slaughterer as well. -
DUde, Hari Raya Haji is more to slaugthering COW !! not SHEEP for GOd sake !
I dun know if you really watch any Malays in Singapore slaughtering SHEEP cuz in Malaysia , Malays kill COW.
As for me, if you dun like to see them killing then dun watch.. you cant do anything or if u do anything, there wil be some angered ppl looking for you..
People got their belief, so do you.. For now, its the best to just ignore them doin what they believe is the right thing to do.. Its none of your business and Buddha teaches you to not killing. So remember it. -
Well, the intentions of my post have been made clear to all at the start.
My intentions were never to imply negatively of or judge any religious or customary practice. But rather, I was asking, in the context of Buddhist teachings of cause and effect, whether such acts would still bring about negative karma, even if sincere prayers are said prior or during the slaughtering. This applies to the general population too, of which some still frequent seafood restaurants or buy live sea animals to slaughter at home.
I asked this not only about a particular religion, I ask this of other folk practices as well. I ask not because I feel like judging or criticising, I ask because I want to affirm within myself that the concepts of cause and effect explained in Buddhism apply universally to all, regardless of who and what they are, and what measures they have taken to mitigate the known consequences of their act.
I do respect the law and the religious and cultural sensitivities of all in my country. that is why, I took pains to explain the intentions of my post. I too have the same anxiousness as any one who have read or are reading my post. I'm sorry if I have caused anyone to feel uneasy or troubled as a result of reading my post.
There's no place, no person whom I can pose this question to, for all would avoid answering or give very vague answers as most of you would. But yet it is my nature to want to see for myself that what I learn is not restricted or applicable to my small circle (Buddhists), it should be the truth for all if we believe what the Buddha said to be true.
Surely the Buddha would not have done what I have done, however that's because he clearly knows the truth within. Whereas for me, it's just reading from related books, listening to the views of fellow Buddhist and venerables, with no way to really test, and experience personally whether the concept of cause and effect does indeed apply to all, regardless of race, religion or nationality.
Moderators, thank you for not deleting my post from the start. Thank you for being understanding and tolerant of my ignorance and stubborness. -
http://muis.gov.sg/cms/news/press.aspx?id=5576Originally posted by Zarks:DUde, Hari Raya Haji is more to slaugthering COW !! not SHEEP for GOd sake !
I dun know if you really watch any Malays in Singapore slaughtering SHEEP cuz in Malaysia , Malays kill COW.
As for me, if you dun like to see them killing then dun watch.. you cant do anything or if u do anything, there wil be some angered ppl looking for you..
People got their belief, so do you.. For now, its the best to just ignore them doin what they believe is the right thing to do.. Its none of your business and Buddha teaches you to not killing. So remember it.
The above is from Singapore's Islamic governing body, MUIS, where its 21 September's press statement clearly mentions the designated animals for sacrificial slaughtering are sheep or goats.
I respect the beliefs of others as I have always done since small when hearing or reading about such stuff. It is indeed none of my business, so I have done or said nothing in front of my Muslim friends or fellow Muslim Singaporeans. -
Yup, I would dedicate the said merits to those performing the slaughter and all those directly or indirectly involved in organising the event too.Originally posted by Beyond Religion:Different religions have their own POVs that may contradict each other... Sacrificial slaughter of animals is allowed in the Islam POV, but that practice is frowned upon in Buddhism. Just like the Buddhist practice of respecting the Buddhas and Bodhisatvas is considered idol worshipping and not allowed in Islam POV.
The fact that we live in a multi-religious secular country, and the fact that Buddhism teaches tolerance and respect for other religions, means that we have to respect their POVs even if they may not be aligned with the teachings of our own.
Under the circumstances, I think you did the right and only thing possible in reciting the Buddha's name and dedicating all merit to all those about to be slaughtered...
What I would do is also to decidcate the said merits to the slaughterer as well. -
A vegetarian diet is much, much more healthy than a meat-eating one.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:When the doctors come after AEN for endangering their patients' health, we'll see. -
Not when they are citically anemic or severly undernorish while in an environment which requires heavy muscular exertion. If you mention a vegan diet which has bovine and egg byproducts, I might believe you.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:A vegetarian diet is much, much more healthy than a meat-eating one. -
Of course there are exception. But they are rare.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:Not when they are citically anemic or severly undernorish while in an environment which requires heavy muscular exertion. If you mention a vegan diet which has bovine and egg byproducts, I might believe you. -
err sorry... this post by nightzip keeps bothering me. I mean it's quite uncomfortable reading this from a Buddhist.Originally posted by nightzip:more so, if they sacrificer has no "yuan" chi towards you, and when you kill him/her, you aso have a loving chi, not "yuan (4)" chi?
and that we know, there is not real killing, cuz in fact your souls lives on, just changing a carcass only?
You see, a killing is a killing, there's no real or fake killing. Many cults love to use this theory ( and also of karma, souls changing body, souls flying to somewhere whatever etc) to justify many of their deviant thoughts and actions in killing people. All these have nothing to do with Buddhadharma.
One eg I can remember is a Cult in Japan ( still in operation tdy, although their leader who calls himself Buddha sometimes is in jail now with death sentence) had instructed his followers, ( which included a medical doctor, a scientist, a lawyer, and some graduates from pretisgious universities) to kill "traitors" or "trouble makers" as well as ex-followers, by telling them that they were doing these people a favour by ending their bad karma; or that it was some kind of "testing" to see how well the ( to be killed)followers had achieved in their "practice"( so in a way they have no yuan chi ?). They are killing with "love and compassion" so " just follow my orders n do it."
Please don't misunderstand that I'm saying the place where nightzip went is a cult or something, definitely not, but maybe nightzip has misinterpreted Buddhadharma. Maybe AEN can help to clarify. Of cos I hope I was wrong in interpreting nightzip's post, of which I must appologise!
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I really feel like spewing some vulgarity at AEN now, everytime I bring up important topics, he puts them down as rare instances but in reality, it's not rare at all. How about I name the instances and you give me some statistics, AEN?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Of course there are exception. But they are rare. -
By rare I mean, much less than majority.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:I really feel like spewing some vulgarity at AEN now, everytime I bring up important topics, he puts them down as rare instances but in reality, it's not rare at all. How about I name the instances and you give me some statistics, AEN? -
AEN,Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:Not when they are citically anemic or severly undernorish while in an environment which requires heavy muscular exertion. If you mention a vegan diet which has bovine and egg byproducts, I might believe you.
I think what HZ mentioned is true, though it may be rare, we shouldn't assume that vegetarian meal is healthy.
Before the present vegetarian cuisine is nicely formulated, most of them were simply made of flour (got a word starts with G don't know how to spell it). It isn't that healthy until recent times, vegetarian chefs improve on the recipt.
In fact the modern vegetarianism is different from Buddha's time, where though we have a lot of mock meat and such, people are still lingering for such taste and flavouring.
The chinese character of vegetarian, Su4, actually refers to eating plainly, literally plain rice, vegies, etc.
We have to differentiate that why people go into vegetariansm as well. Some are due to religion; some are due to health issue, etc.
Although I understand this is a buddhist forum, so probably by default this forum supports vegetarianism. -
Yamizi, it's gluten.Originally posted by yamizi:AEN,
I think what HZ mentioned is true, though it may be rare, we shouldn't assume that vegetarian meal is healthy.
Before the present vegetarian cuisine is nicely formulated, most of them were simply made of flour (got a word starts with G don't know how to spell it). It isn't that healthy until recent times, vegetarian chefs improve on the recipt.
In fact the modern vegetarianism is different from Buddha's time, where though we have a lot of mock meat and such, people are still lingering for such taste and flavouring.
The chinese character of vegetarian, Su4, actually refers to eating plainly, literally plain rice, vegies, etc.
We have to differentiate that why people go into vegetariansm as well. Some are due to religion; some are due to health issue, etc.
Although I understand this is a buddhist forum, so probably by default this forum supports vegetarianism. -
What do you mean much less than majority? 49.999999999% is much less than majority... Come on lah, post something which has some wisdom in it, not nonsense.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:By rare I mean, much less than majority. -
Obviously much lesser than that.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:What do you much less than majority? 49.999999999% is much less than majority... Come on lah, post something which has some wisdom in it, not nonsense. -
There are many common illness that requires a person to eat meat in order to better survive. Like malaria, hemologic fever.....Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Obviously much lesser than that.