Your views on sacrificial slaughtering of animals
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My statement still holds true.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:There are many common illness that requires a person to eat meat in order to better survive. Like malaria, hemologic fever..... -
Objection, generalization!
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Hi Yamizi & HZ,Originally posted by yamizi:AEN,
I think what HZ mentioned is true, though it may be rare, we shouldn't assume that vegetarian meal is healthy.
Before the present vegetarian cuisine is nicely formulated, most of them were simply made of flour (got a word starts with G don't know how to spell it). It isn't that healthy until recent times, vegetarian chefs improve on the recipt.
In fact the modern vegetarianism is different from Buddha's time, where though we have a lot of mock meat and such, people are still lingering for such taste and flavouring.
The chinese character of vegetarian, Su4, actually refers to eating plainly, literally plain rice, vegies, etc.
We have to differentiate that why people go into vegetariansm as well. Some are due to religion; some are due to health issue, etc.
Although I understand this is a buddhist forum, so probably by default this forum supports vegetarianism.
Yah... but similarly we also cannot assume that non-vegetarian meal is healthy; or what most meat eaters believed that meat is a must for health is more true.
This can go on and on( which we can see in this forum). Even nutritionists, doctors, scientists etc have been arguing over this for ages.
So if anyone wants to eat meat, just go ahead and eat. There are lots of research, studies and reports for one to check and to come up with a conclusion which he/she "prefers" to believe. No need to justify yourself for loving meat. U think vegans r stupid, so don't follow them. Period.
I think AEN just wanted to say that one should become vegetarain if possible ( which we can see that many ppl are capable of). Of cos if it is impossible due to many other reasons, then it is too bad. The conditons are not right yet.
There are loads of rare, extreme, unusual, unforseen, inexplaniable situations or conditions in this world, we can't possibly go to such areas and argue over it while forsaking or refuse to see the wider picture. This is call argue for nothing. It is unfortunate for ppl with unusual conditions, let's the experts help them.
Oh, talking abt mock meat, if the person feels like it, then up to him. Yes, we can say that maybe he is actually still longing for meat ( that's why have mock one
), but we don't be so harsh or make fun of them. I think this is also "zhu4 xiang4" . We want to eat "purely" vegetarian meal, we just do it ourselves; no need to see what others do n feel uneasy of vex over it.
Lastly, I do agree with Yamizi that this is after all a Buddhism Forum, so of cos we advocate the goodness of going vegetarain, with the ultimate reason of cultivating Compassion.
So HZ, maybe u can go to other forums and start a thread on 'food, glorious food' or something and it wld be more fun for u. Or go and look for the relevant experts on Vegetarain research so as to satisfy your quest for knowledge. Just to satisfy your ego, I shall say :" Pick someone of your own size" 
PS. I'm not saying AEN is inferior, but that since u think n talk like a scientists or experts of the universe, go n talk to scientist n experts then. Don't come to such sml pond, there's no audience. -
Originally posted by cycle:
I think you misunderstood me, I do not think non-vegetarian meal is healthy. I am not advocating vegetarianism or non vegetarianism.
Hi Yamizi & HZ,
Yah... but similarly we also cannot assume that non-vegetarian meal is healthy; or what most meat eaters believed that meat is a must for health is more true.
This can go on and on( which we can see in this forum). Even nutritionists, doctors, scientists etc have been arguing over this for ages.
So if anyone wants to eat meat, just go ahead and eat. There are lots of research, studies and reports for one to check and to come up with a conclusion which he/she "prefers" to believe. No need to justify yourself for loving meat. U think vegans r stupid, so don't follow them. Period.
I think AEN just wanted to say that one should become vegetarain if possible ( which we can see that many ppl are capable of). Of cos if it is impossible due to many other reasons, then it is too bad. The conditons are not right yet.
There are loads of rare, extreme, unusual, unforseen, inexplaniable situations or conditions in this world, we can't possibly go to such areas and argue over it while forsaking or refuse to see the wider picture. This is call argue for nothing. It is unfortunate for ppl with unusual conditions, let's the experts help them.
Oh, talking abt mock meat, if the person feels like it, then up to him. Yes, we can say that [b]maybe he is actually still longing for meat ( that's why have mock one ), but we don't be so harsh or make fun of them. I think this is also "zhu4 xiang4" . We want to eat "purely" vegetarian meal, we just do it ourselves; no need to see what others do n feel uneasy of vex over it.
Lastly, I do agree with Yamizi that this is after all a Buddhism Forum, so of cos we advocate the goodness of going vegetarain, with the ultimate reason of cultivating Compassion.
So HZ, maybe u can go to other forums and start a thread on 'food, glorious food' or something and it wld be more fun for u. Or go and look for the relevant experts on Vegetarain research so as to satisfy your quest for knowledge. Just to satisfy your ego, I shall say :" Pick someone of your own size"
PS. I'm not saying AEN is inferior, but that since u think n talk like a scientists or experts of the universe, go n talk to scientist n experts then. Don't come to such sml pond, there's no audience.[/b]
Personally, I'm taking lesser meat now due to health issues. But I understand for certain sickness, they are unable to abstain from meat.
My purpose just to hope that both HZ and AEN would understand each other's points better. However AEN seems to have a generalise view which I assume that it is attributed by the fact that this is a buddhist forum which is natural for the forum to promote vegetarianism.
And yes I understand that there are people capable of turning into full vegetarian. =) -
Just to add on, not only islam, in christianity, in the old testament, it gives a detail how does one confess and transfer one's sin to a dove (I think) and to have to slaughter and burn at the altar.
With the coming of christ, this practice is eventually given up as it is believed that christ was the ultimate sacrifice for mankind.
But it doesn't remove the fact that a supposed all loving god would actually left such a detail sacrificial ritual in the old testaments. -
Question:
Why do some Buddhists who dont eat meat , their dishes all have to look like meat.. and at some point , taste a bit like meat but not actually meat. If u cant eat meat , then why make it look like meat ?
Or are the constantly trying to fight the temptation ? Putting it in front of them. -
Originally posted by boredtulan:
...got 'blessing' better than NO 'blessing'.
Is Islamic Slaughtering Cruel to Animals?
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I think I had mentioned in my previous reply.Originally posted by BadzMaro:Question:
Why do some Buddhists who dont eat meat , their dishes all have to look like meat.. and at some point , taste a bit like meat but not actually meat. If u cant eat meat , then why make it look like meat ?
Or are the constantly trying to fight the temptation ? Putting it in front of them.
The vegetarian nowadays and in the past are very different issue altogether. Nowadays to 'help' people to go into vegetarian (with the main idea of not taking meat), innovative chefs made mock meat. It is interesting to find out that that some people actually prefer meat due to the taste.
Example that I have a vegetarian stall at my place over here, they have this vegetarian duck rice which I find it more tasty than the real duck rice, minus that they can't create the tangy biting feeling of meat, however the stall has successfully replace the taste and smell.
The real meaning of vegetarianism is not only not to take meat, but taking a more plain flavour. Just as buddhists train not to discriminate between different phenomenon, same training goes to our eating where we treat that eating is only a part of activity to keep our body function so that we can practice the Dhamma. -
So its a process to help.. bring them closer to being vegetarian. But why want to eat something u are not meant to eat ? Then it should be just plain rice n vege.. minus the whole deco.Originally posted by yamizi:I think I had mentioned in my previous reply.
The vegetarian nowadays and in the past are very different issue altogether. Nowadays to 'help' people to go into vegetarian (with the main idea of not taking meat), innovative chefs made mock meat. It is interesting to find out that that some people actually prefer meat due to the taste.
Example that I have a vegetarian stall at my place over here, they have this vegetarian duck rice which I find it more tasty than the real duck rice, minus that they can't create the tangy biting feeling of meat, however the stall has successfully replace the taste and smell.
The real meaning of vegetarianism is not only not to take meat, but taking a more plain flavour. Just as buddhists train not to discriminate between different phenomenon, same training goes to our eating where we treat that eating is only a part of activity to keep our body function so that we can practice the Dhamma.
But only eating vegetarian is barely keeping the body functioning according to specifications. Doesnt our body need some meat ? If its to keep it barely going so to be able to practice the Dhamma then isn't eating only vege the best way ? minus the rice. -
Well you have to understand that vegetarianism was not advocated by Buddha Himself.Originally posted by BadzMaro:So its a process to help.. bring them closer to being vegetarian. But why want to eat something u are not meant to eat ? Then it should be just plain rice n vege.. minus the whole deco.
But only eating vegetarian is barely keeping the body functioning according to specifications. Doesnt our body need some meat ? If its to keep it barely going so to be able to practice the Dhamma then isn't eating only vege the best way ? minus the rice.
Buddha taught us to eat moderately. And there are three (or later develop into five) conditions to the type of meat that we can eat. That is the animal not killed by us; we did not witness the killing of the animal; and the animal isn't killed deliberately for us.
Vegetarianism is more emphasized by the latter development of Buddhism. The aim (if I'm not wrong) is to not even have an indirect killing link to the deceased of the animal.
So non-vegetarian meal is not something that is not meant to eat. To be or not to be a vegetarian is an individual choice. -
ic ic... interesting.Originally posted by yamizi:Well you have to understand that vegetarianism was not advocated by Buddha Himself.
Buddha taught us to eat moderately. And there are three (or later develop into five) conditions to the type of meat that we can eat. That is the animal not killed by us; we did not witness the killing of the animal; and the animal isn't killed deliberately for us.
Vegetarianism is more emphasized by the latter development of Buddhism. The aim (if I'm not wrong) is to not even have an indirect killing link to the deceased of the animal.
So non-vegetarian meal is not something that is not meant to eat. To be or not to be a vegetarian is an individual choice. -
Yes, this may be a Buddhist forum, but AEN must also ask people to consult their own doctors and nutritionists to verify whether being vegetarian is okay for them.Originally posted by yamizi:I think you misunderstood me, I do not think non-vegetarian meal is healthy. I am not advocating vegetarianism or non vegetarianism.
Personally, I'm taking lesser meat now due to health issues. But I understand for certain sickness, they are unable to abstain from meat.
My purpose just to hope that both HZ and AEN would understand each other's points better. However AEN seems to have a generalise view which I assume that it is attributed by the fact that this is a buddhist forum which is natural for the forum to promote vegetarianism.
And yes I understand that there are people capable of turning into full vegetarian. =) -
Slaughtering of animals is a ruthless act. Rather, i will speak of sacrificing of animals here. In many religions, sacrificing animals are for appeasing deities and gods so that they will be happy and bless people. However, i wonder how far is this the truth. If they have imprinted bad karma and thus receiving its result, will it change if animals sacrifices are being made? It is also a very selfish thing. Sacrificing of animals also promotes selfishness. If others have to suffer just for one's happiness, isnt that one person very selfish to enjoy all by himself but instead an animal's percious life is sacrificed for him?
If one sacrifices animal and gain blessings, that may only signify that demons are at work. -
it's nature's Instinct that sentient being prefer to stay alive then to be kill by others (hao4 shen1 zhi1 de2).
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Well you are coming from a buddhist's perspective, however not everyone is a buddhist.Originally posted by wilsonhao:Slaughtering of animals is a ruthless act. Rather, i will speak of sacrificing of animals here. In many religions, sacrificing animals are for appeasing deities and gods so that they will be happy and bless people. However, i wonder how far is this the truth. If they have imprinted bad karma and thus receiving its result, will it change if animals sacrifices are being made? It is also a very selfish thing. Sacrificing of animals also promotes selfishness. If others have to suffer just for one's happiness, isnt that one person very selfish to enjoy all by himself but instead an animal's percious life is sacrificed for him?
If one sacrifices animal and gain blessings, that may only signify that demons are at work.
The slaughtering of animals would have definitely a different meaning in other religions.
What to do?
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Originally posted by nightzip:
With regard to the soul theory, there are three kinds of teachers in the world:
more so, if they sacrificer has no "yuan" chi towards you, and when you kill him/her, you aso have a loving chi, not "yuan (4)" chi?
and that we know, there is not real killing, cuz in fact your souls lives on, just changing a carcass only?
The first teacher teaches the existence of an eternal ego-entity that outlasts death: He is the eternalist.
The second teacher teaches a temporary ego-entity which becomes annihilated at death: He is the materialist.
The third teacher teaches neither an eternal nor a temporary ego-entity: He is the Buddha.
http://www.sinc.sunysb.edu/Clubs/buddhism/dhammananda/115.htm
as regards to yuan chi as in mental "energy" of resentment, i do agree. this mental "energy" of resentment is the generated problem when sentient beings are killed. it is the part that seperate from the rest of the arguement on health, etc.
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