One prohibition that even non-Buddhists should know

• Spnw07

  25 Jan 08, 11:39

  I wonder how many beginner Buddhists, not just non-Buddhists, know about the reasons for this prohibition and the consequences for having deliberately or unwittingly committed it.
  
  It is this: No property or belonging of the monastic order should be taken without the express permission given by the abbot or monks in charge of that particular property or belonging.
  
  That includes, every single drop of flower petal on the temple's floor, any fruits if riped or unripe that are found on the floor or fallen from the tree. Even if there are things thrown into the rubbish bin of the temple, you are not to take them for personal keeping or use or for others unless express permission is sought. This is what I have heard and read from audio-visual materials and related Buddhist books. I do not know how true and how exact this is as I have not yet personally consulted a Venerable for details. Even though some sutras speak of this, I have not yet had the chance to come across sutras that discuss about this rule and its karmic consequences in great details.
  
  Most temples now have tourists visiting them, other than just local people. However not many know the karmic consequences of even just picking up things found on the floor of the temple for personal keeping.
  
  I do not wish to frighten anyone here, but yet I feel it is very important that they should know. Whether they believe after reading or hearing about this is their own personal decision.
  
  The negative karmic results for having playfully/wilfully/unwittingly commited this act is so severe that I remember one sutra quoted a Bodhisattva who said this: "I might be able to save those who break the five or eight precepts, but I cannot save those that take without permission the property or belongings of the monastic order." I'm not sure as to the exact accuracy of this quote word by word, but the last sentence concerning 'I cannot save....", I do believe I had not remembered it wrongly.
  
  So my message to fellow Buddhists and Buddhist organisations is: Do your best to help fellow layman, Buddhist or non-Buddhists, to avoid committing this serious act. Put up signs in languages that cater to the masses in your country. Have monks in charge of certain areas or belongings to explain this prohibition in a non-Buddhist way, patiently and tactfully, so as to avoid frightening people, even though what we know may be the Truth and nothing but the Truth. The last thing we want is for people to avoid Buddha's teachings like the devil/cult/plague.
  
  May the Dharma continue to be heard by as many people as possible in this Dharma-Ending Age. May all be able to gain fast and ultimate deliverance from all sufferings and gain ultimate bliss in this lifetime or in just a few lifetimes.
  
  Amituofo! ^_^
  
  
• knightlll

  25 Jan 08, 22:24

  Originally posted by Spnw07:

  I wonder how many beginner Buddhists, not just non-Buddhists, know about the reasons for this prohibition and the consequences for having deliberately or unwittingly committed it.
  
  It is this: No property or belonging of the monastic order should be taken without the express permission given by the abbot or monks in charge of that particular property or belonging.
  
  That includes, every single drop of flower petal on the temple's floor, any fruits if riped or unripe that are found on the floor or fallen from the tree. Even if there are things thrown into the rubbish bin of the temple, you are not to take them for personal keeping or use or for others.However not many know the karmic consequences of even just picking up things found on the floor of the temple for personal keeping.
  
  I do not wish to frighten anyone here, but yet I feel it is very important that they should know. Whether they believe after reading or hearing about this is their own personal decision.
  
  The negative karmic results for having playfully/wilfully/unwittingly commited this act is so severe that I remember one sutra quoted a Bodhisattva who said this: "I might be able to save those who break the five or eight precepts, but I cannot save those that take without permission the property or belongings of the monastic order." I'm not sure as to the exact accuracy of this quote word by word, but the last sentence concerning 'I cannot save....", I do believe I had not remembered it wrongly.

  I do not know how true this is , I see the example of not picking rubbish and fallen petals on the monastary's ground as meaningless. This rule may be twisted in some ways by buddhist scholars or layman like us.
  
  I also hear or read somewhere that ( cant remember liao ) , if one has already seek refuge in the triple gems and later decided to convert into another faith , one would fall into hell realm after death. Sounds ridiculous or meaningless , isnt it ? Dont know how true is it ?
• Spnw07

  26 Jan 08, 00:01

  Originally posted by knightlll:

  I do not know how true this is , I see the example of not picking rubbish and fallen petals on the monastary's ground as meaningless. This rule may be twisted in some ways by buddhist scholars or layman like us.
  
  I also hear or read somewhere that ( cant remember liao ) , if one has already seek refuge in the triple gems and later decided to convert into another faith , one would fall into hell realm after death. Sounds ridiculous or meaningless , isnt it ? Dont know how true is it ?

  Seriously I heard the above example from a vcd recording of a Venerable's talk. I dare not say it is word for word, but the main point emphasised by the venerable is anything that is considered within the temple's grounds cannot be taken without express permission being granted.
  
  As whether those who has already seeked refuge in triple gems and later decided to convert into another faith will fall into hell, this is the first time I've come to hear of it, honestly. If it is true, then it would be quite worrying for me. Cos my heart although is leaning towards Buddhism, it is quite unstable, full of stress in trying to learn to be sincere, to be kind and humble even when humiliated and harmed. I may not convert into another faith, cos I already believe in the rationality of Cause and Effect, but I would probably revert back to being a free-thinker.
  
  
• knightlll

  26 Jan 08, 08:26

  Need someone to verify the above.
• Canihelpyou02

  2 Feb 08, 19:25

  That is why i stay away from the temple now adays.So scaring,a small mistake want people to go to hell.This is the side effect of Buddhism after hundred and thousand of years passed down until today.Each of them just add a bit of taste and today it become like that.I think the Buddha and Bodhisttvah is very compassion,concentrating on how to save all beings from sufferings.Not mentioning about those petty things.Those temple care taker make it so scaring.

  In Theravada temple ,the concept is not like Mahayana.(chinese people).

• Isis

  5 Feb 08, 00:37

  Originally posted by Canihelpyou02:

  That is why i stay away from the temple now adays.So scaring,a small mistake want people to go to hell.This is the side effect of Buddhism after hundred and thousand of years passed down until today.Each of them just add a bit of taste and today it become like that.I think the Buddha and Bodhisttvah is very compassion,concentrating on how to save all beings from sufferings.Not mentioning about those petty things.Those temple care taker make it so scaring.

  In Theravada temple ,the concept is not like Mahayana.(chinese people).

  ERM.. relax lah!

  As long as you are mindful of it ( don't anyhow pick without asking/stealing ), it should be okay. Don't let it become a reason for not going to temple!

  

   

• bohiruci

  5 Feb 08, 01:05

  Originally posted by Spnw07:

  I wonder how many beginner Buddhists, not just non-Buddhists, know about the reasons for this prohibition and the consequences for having deliberately or unwittingly committed it.
  
  It is this: No property or belonging of the monastic order should be taken without the express permission given by the abbot or monks in charge of that particular property or belonging.
  
  That includes, every single drop of flower petal on the temple's floor, any fruits if riped or unripe that are found on the floor or fallen from the tree. Even if there are things thrown into the rubbish bin of the temple, you are not to take them for personal keeping or use or for others unless express permission is sought. This is what I have heard and read from audio-visual materials and related Buddhist books. I do not know how true and how exact this is as I have not yet personally consulted a Venerable for details. Even though some sutras speak of this, I have not yet had the chance to come across sutras that discuss about this rule and its karmic consequences in great details.
  
  Most temples now have tourists visiting them, other than just local people. However not many know the karmic consequences of even just picking up things found on the floor of the temple for personal keeping.
  
  I do not wish to frighten anyone here, but yet I feel it is very important that they should know. Whether they believe after reading or hearing about this is their own personal decision.
  
  The negative karmic results for having playfully/wilfully/unwittingly commited this act is so severe that I remember one sutra quoted a Bodhisattva who said this: "I might be able to save those who break the five or eight precepts, but I cannot save those that take without permission the property or belongings of the monastic order." I'm not sure as to the exact accuracy of this quote word by word, but the last sentence concerning 'I cannot save....", I do believe I had not remembered it wrongly.
  
  So my message to fellow Buddhists and Buddhist organisations is: Do your best to help fellow layman, Buddhist or non-Buddhists, to avoid committing this serious act. Put up signs in languages that cater to the masses in your country. Have monks in charge of certain areas or belongings to explain this prohibition in a non-Buddhist way, patiently and tactfully, so as to avoid frightening people, even though what we know may be the Truth and nothing but the Truth. The last thing we want is for people to avoid Buddha's teachings like the devil/cult/plague.
  
  May the Dharma continue to be heard by as many people as possible in this Dharma-Ending Age. May all be able to gain fast and ultimate deliverance from all sufferings and gain ultimate bliss in this lifetime or in just a few lifetimes.
  
  Amituofo! ^_^

   

  for a more clearer understanding , please go to read the fourfold books of precepts under the Vinaya School.

  First,stuff thrown inside a trashbin is no master property , I just wonder what kind of evil karma is it talking abt when its belongs to the rubbish

  2nd some of the understanding is wrong ,its not really true .

  the bodhisattva means the "intention to take without permission " stuff from the property in use by the Sangha, which does not include the trash.If in such way , doesnt temple not allow to throw the trash away , as it still belong to the sangha ?

  there must be wisdom understanding what this object referring to ,else it will sound Buddhism is a religion for the no-brainer

   

   

• sinweiy

  5 Feb 08, 09:36

  The negative karmic results for having playfully/wilfully/unwittingly commited this act is so severe that I remember one sutra quoted a Bodhisattva who said this: "I might be able to save those who break the five or eight precepts, but I cannot save those that take without permission the property or belongings of the monastic order."

  i heard this from old MCK too, several time. it's absolutely true! if i recall correctly, this is because the treasury of Triple Jewel is boundless. you don't own to one person, but countless people. as one life time cannot pay back.

  this is also true if you steal money related stuff that belong to the goverment and the people of the country. so you own not to the governor, but all people of the country per se.

  as for stuff in the trash bin, (also heard this from a Q&A from old master), saying since it's already not wanted, don't mind make a simple gesture of asking the person in charge in the monasteries to let you have it (to play safe). i'm sure the staffs will be much happy to let you have it. yeah?

  though, for beggars or poor people who happen to pass by, i'm not sure i have heard this, since they are not into Buddhism, we can't expect them to know all this. maybe they's exception. hmm..

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• sinweiy

  5 Feb 08, 09:50

  地���本愿�讲记

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  净空法师主讲

  新加�净宗学会录影室

  http://bookgb.bfnn.org/books/0174.htm

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  /\

• Spnw07

  6 Feb 08, 10:46

  Originally posted by sinweiy:

  i heard this from old MCK too, several time. it's absolutely true! if i recall correctly, this is because the treasury of Triple Jewel is boundless. you don't own to one person, but countless people. as one life time cannot pay back.

  this is also true if you steal money related stuff that belong to the goverment and the people of the country. so you own not to the governor, but all people of the country per se.

  as for stuff in the trash bin, (also heard this from a Q&A from old master), saying since it's already not wanted, don't mind make a simple gesture of asking the person in charge in the monasteries to let you have it (to play safe). i'm sure the staffs will be much happy to let you have it. yeah?

  though, for beggars or poor people who happen to pass by, i'm not sure i have heard this, since they are not into Buddhism, we can't expect them to know all this. maybe they's exception. hmm.. 

  Yup, I had heard the above from Master Chin Kong. As for the rubbish thing, I'm not very sure though. That's why I was asking for clarification from fellow Buddhists here.

• annoy-you-must

  6 Feb 08, 12:52

  then how about let's say taking the sweets that monestry sometime put on top of the money donation box? nobody explicitely mention that those sweets are for the donors.

  and how about using the tap waters at the monastry?

• sinweiy

  6 Feb 08, 13:12

  i think sweets is 结缘�.

  tap waters, u wash hands after going to toilets, right? that should be fine. it's not like as if you collected the water in bottles and bring back to use. then that's stealing.

  /\

• Spnw07

  11 Feb 08, 11:45

  Originally posted by sinweiy:

  i think sweets is 结缘�.

  tap waters, u wash hands after going to toilets, right? that should be fine. it's not like as if you collected the water in bottles and bring back to use. then that's stealing.

  /\

  
  I agree with sinweiy on that. :)

• sinweiy

  11 Feb 08, 12:38

  i guess the way a precept can be "open" or 开缘 is when it's not of selfish usage and it's of benefit to others. it's still boils down to one's intentions per se.

   

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  /\