念佛GOOD 还是坐禅GOOD?

• bohiruci

  28 Jan 08, 21:46

  念佛GOOD 还是�禅GOOD?

  everyone have its different view on the strength and weakness

  I favour 念佛 ,anyone have different ��?

   

  多多指教!

   

   

• justdoit77

  28 Jan 08, 22:26

  Originally posted by bohiruci:

  念佛GOOD 还是�禅GOOD?

  everyone have its different view on the strength and weakness

  I favour 念佛 ,anyone have different ��?

   

  多多指教!

  其实念佛�禅是一样的.
  两者都须�专心�无�念,念佛是�专注于佛�,而�禅则专注在呼�,观想,数�,�头或是佛�等等也行.
  念佛的功德很大,但如果�入定的�就较�容易了.

• bohiruci

  28 Jan 08, 22:56

  念佛can also enter 念佛三昧

  depends on �人根器

  �正 心佛众生 三无差别

   

  广庆�和尚说

  念佛打七

  贵在一心

   

• dragon_stone

  28 Jan 08, 23:12

  please correct me if i am wrong, it seems that the japanese buddhist is concentrating on the 禅 portion of buddhism...and they are doing a good job in the manner that they pray and live (monastries, i meant)

• An Eternal Now

  28 Jan 08, 23:19

  Originally posted by dragon_stone:

  please correct me if i am wrong, it seems that the japanese buddhist is concentrating on the 禅 portion of buddhism...and they are doing a good job in the manner that they pray and live (monastries, i meant)

  Nope.. Japanese have a wide variety of schools of Buddhism.

  There is Zen, there is Pure Land, there is Shingon (Esoteric/Vajrayana), there is Nichiren, there is Tendai (Exoteric), etc.

  Japanese Pure Land (Jodo Shinshu) focuses on chanting as well. In fact, Jodo Shinshu is the most popular Buddhist sect in Japan. However, Zen is becoming popular in the west.

• An Eternal Now

  28 Jan 08, 23:20

  Originally posted by bohiruci:

  念佛GOOD 还是�禅GOOD?

  everyone have its different view on the strength and weakness

  I favour 念佛 ,anyone have different ��?

   

  多多指教!

   

  Whatever suits them best is the best...

  For me, meditation.

  Whatever techniques used what is important is the element of awareness and it must complement concentration to gain wisdom.

  人乘�音: 修禅定还�有觉 www.rencheng.com

  问： 请示师傅，�怎样修治散乱的心？ 答： �修散乱的心，就�修�散乱。现在你们把眼�闭上，手�掌，师傅现在就教你们修。这个时候你心里�什么都�想，散乱心就没有了。（数分钟） 好，现在眼��开，师傅教你们的就是修禅定。你把这个�乱妄想的心收回�，置心一处，无事�办，把这个心定在�动的地方，�动就是定，定了以�，智慧也就会生出�了。 但是修禅定最�紧的是�有觉，有很多人学佛修行，念佛�禅一辈�，他没有智慧，原因就是没有觉。所以我们把这个心定在一处以�，我们还�有一�觉观，觉照。觉就是你这个心�动，有一微尘飞过你都知�，那么这个定就差�多了。 谈到觉，�使你�但觉了自己的心，他方世界开了一朵花，都好�在你的手里边一样，看得清清楚楚，那么你就�佛了。 所以这个修法是很�简�，师傅这么简�就跟你们讲了，大家��惜。

• bohiruci

  28 Jan 08, 23:22

  Originally posted by dragon_stone:

  please correct me if i am wrong, it seems that the japanese buddhist is concentrating on the 禅 portion of buddhism...and they are doing a good job in the manner that they pray and live (monastries, i meant)

  
  erm �一定,

  日本HAVING曹洞 and 临济have their roots in Chinese Chan

  you are not wrong in the essence the japanese is taking

  i can also said Thich Nhat Hanh Vietnamese Zen一行禅师的越�禅

  �有�的优点!

   

• bohiruci

  28 Jan 08, 23:25

  Originally posted by An Eternal Now:

  Whatever suits them best is the best...

  For me, meditation.

   

   

  
  多多用�语,AN ETERNAL NOW[现在一刻到永�] ,

  咱门学学标准对��!

   

• An Eternal Now

  28 Jan 08, 23:27

  http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma4/mpe1-4.html
  
  Within the Judeo-Christian tradition we find two overlapping practices called prayer and contemplation. Prayer is a direct address to some spiritual entity. Contemplation in a prolonged period of conscious thought about some specific topic, usually a religious ideal or scriptural passage. From the standpoint of mental culture, both of these activities are exercises in concentration. The normal deluge of conscious thought is restricted, and the mind is brought to one conscious area of operation. The results are those you find in any concentrative practice: deep calm, a physiological slowing of the metabolism and a sense of peace and well-being.
  
  Out of the Hindu tradition comes Yogic meditation, which is also purely concentrative. The traditional basic exercises consist of focusing the mind on a single object a stone, a candle flame, a syllable or whatever, and not allowing it to wander. Having acquired the basic skill, the Yogi proceeds to expand his practice by taking on more complex objects of meditation chants, colorful religious images, energy channels in the body and so forth. Still, no matter how complex the object of meditation, the meditation itself remains purely an exercise in concentration.
  
  Within the Buddhist tradition, concentration is also highly valued. But a new element is added and more highly stressed. That element is awareness. All Buddhist meditation aims at the development of awareness, using concentration as a tool. The Buddhist tradition is very wide, however, and there are several diverse routes to this goal. Zen meditation uses two separate tacks. The first is the direct plunge into awareness by sheer force of will. You sit down and you just sit, meaning that you toss out of your mind everything except pure awareness of sitting. This sounds very simple. It is not. A brief trial will demonstrate just how difficult it really is. The second Zen approach used in the Rinzai school is that of tricking the mind out of conscious thought and into pure awareness. This is done by giving the student an unsolvable riddle which he must solve anyway, and by placing him in a horrendous training situation. Since he cannot flee from the pain of the situation, he must flee into a pure experience of the moment. There is nowhere else to go. Zen is tough. It is effective for many people, but it is really tough.
  
  Another stratagem, Tantric Buddhism, is nearly the reverse. Conscious thought, at least the way we usually do it, is the manifestation of ego, the you that you usually think that you are. Conscious thought is tightly connected with self-concept. The self-concept or ego is nothing more than a set of reactions and mental images which are artificially pasted to the flowing process of pure awareness. Tantra seeks to obtain pure awareness by destroying this ego image. This is accomplished by a process of visualization. The student is given a particular religious image to meditate upon, for example, one of the deities from the Tantric pantheon. He does this in so thorough a fashion that he becomes that entity. He takes off his own identity and puts on another. This takes a while, as you might imagine, but it works. During the process, he is able to watch the way that the ego is constructed and put in place. He comes to recognize the arbitrary nature of all egos, including his own, and he escapes from bondage to the ego. He is left in a state where he may have an ego if he so chooses, either his own or whichever other he might wish, or he can do without one. Result: pure awareness. Tantra is not exactly a game of patty cake either.
  
  Vipassana is the oldest of Buddhist meditation practices. The method comes directly from the Sitipatthana Sutta, a discourse attributed to Buddha himself. Vipassana is a direct and gradual cultivation of mindfulness or awareness. It proceeds piece by piece over a period of years. The student's attention is carefully directed to an intense examination of certain aspects of his own existence. The meditator is trained to notice more and more of his own flowing life experience. Vipassana is a gentle technique. But it also is very , very thorough. It is an ancient and codified system of sensitivity training, a set of exercises dedicated to becoming more and more receptive to your own life experience. It is attentive listening, total seeing and careful testing. We learn to smell acutely, to touch fully and really pay attention to what we feel. We learn to listen to our own thoughts without being caught up in them.
  
  The object of Vipassana practice is to learn to pay attention. We think we are doing this already, but that is an illusion. It comes from the fact that we are paying so little attention to the ongoing surge of our own life experiences that we might just as well be asleep. We are simply not paying enough attention to notice that we are not paying attention. It is another Catch-22.

• An Eternal Now

  28 Jan 08, 23:32

  Originally posted by bohiruci:

  
  多多用�语,AN ETERNAL NOW[现在一刻到永�] ,

  咱门学学标准对��!

   

  First of all I do not have a good Chinese software to type Chinese words, I'm using a free one and I have to manually copy and paste what I type in Chinese over here so it is tedious. It is also easier and faster for me to simply type in English. I also type in English in consideration of some people whose Chinese standard are not so good and cannot read Chinese well.

• 798

  28 Jan 08, 23:32

  i think 心中有佛比较好! 诸�莫作，众善众行!

• An Eternal Now

  28 Jan 08, 23:40

  Originally posted by 798:

  i think 心中有佛比较好! 诸�莫作，众善众行!

  诸�莫�,众善奉行 ,自净其�，是诸佛教

  If you 诸�莫�,众善奉行 (avoid all evil, do all good) but never 自净其� (purify your mind), then what you are cultivating is merely worldly blessings of human and devas... not different from other religions.

  So this part is very important, mind cultivation/development/purification and gaining deeper wisdom into reality... leading to liberation, awareness/awakening, bliss and wisdom.

  Being in aware presence every moment is therefore important and is the means of purification, as thoughts and feelings does not go unnoticed, we are not unconsciously misled by our 6 sense organs into creating defilements.

• An Eternal Now

  28 Jan 08, 23:51

  Bohiruci: [现在一刻到永�]

  

• An Eternal Now

  28 Jan 08, 23:53

  Originally posted by An Eternal Now:

  诸�莫�,众善奉行 ,自净其�，是诸佛教

  If you 诸�莫�,众善奉行 (avoid all evil, do all good) but never 自净其� (purify your mind), then what you are cultivating is merely worldly blessings of human and devas... not different from other religions.

  So this part is very important, mind cultivation/development/purification and gaining deeper wisdom into reality... leading to liberation, awareness/awakening, bliss and wisdom.

  Being in aware presence every moment is therefore important and is the means of purification, as thoughts and feelings does not go unnoticed, we are not unconsciously misled by our 6 sense organs into creating defilements.

  唯佛宗世界人乘佛教：净化人心 www.rencheng.com Ven Shen Kai

  圣开导师说：“学佛修行è¦�净化人心，唯有人心净化，人类æ‰�有幸ç¦�，世间æ‰�有快ä¹�。”   å› æ­¤åœ£å¼€å¯¼å¸ˆæ��倡“é�©å¿ƒ”，所谓é�©å¿ƒå°±æ˜¯æ”¹é€ è‡ªå·±çš„心，净化自己的心。   äºº 人都有心，我们的心是å�ƒå�˜ä¸‡åŒ–的，上天堂，下地狱，在六é�“里转轮回，都是人心所造出æ�¥çš„。人心善则有善的感应；人心æ�¶åŒ–了，自然感应ç§�ç§�苦æ�¼ä¸�如æ„�。就因 为当今世界人心趋å�‘æ�¶åŒ–，有了贪嗔痴等无明愚痴的心念，æ�€ç›—淫等一切ä¸�好的事情就产生的，人类的幸ç¦�é€�æ¸�å‡�少，而六é�“轮回也是因人心的æ�¶åŒ–å½¢æˆ�的。世间许 多人类的ä¸�幸，就是因为å�ƒå�ƒä¸‡ä¸‡çš„ä¸�善业所感。而人身体所å�šçš„行为，å�£æ‰€è¯´çš„言语，都是å�‘之于“æ„�”，æ„�就是心念，人类就是因为没有智慧觉照，常常被自己 的心所欺骗，ä¸�明因果，ä¸�知所å�šçš„事，对自己或他人有利或有害，因愚痴而造æ�¶ä¸šï¼Œæ‰€ä»¥ä¸�幸与痛苦也就跟ç�€æ�¥äº†ã€‚   è®¸å¤šå®—教都是教人è¦�行善，ä¸�è¦�å�šæ�¶ï¼Œå”¯ç‹¬ä½›æ•™é™¤äº†æ•™äºº“诸æ�¶èŽ«ä½œï¼Œä¼—善奉行”之外，还教人è¦�“自净其æ„�”，æ„�念清净了，自然就没有贪嗔痴，也就没有一切ä¸�好的行为。   å¾ˆå¤šäººä»¥ä¸ºè¡Œå–„就是净化人心，以为诸æ�¶èŽ«ä½œï¼Œä¼—善奉行，就是清净，其实这样还ä¸�够，è¦�把æ„�也净了，把æ„�å�˜æˆ�觉，æ‰�是清净。å�ªè¦�å�šåˆ°è‡ªå‡€å…¶æ„�，就是净化人心。   å¿ƒæœ‰æ±¡æŸ“的时候，我们就è¦�净化自己，用佛的甘露æ�¥æŠŠå¿ƒæ´—干净，常常观心，ä¸�让自己的无明生起。如果我们的心净化了，家庭æ¯�一个人也净化了，这个社会也就净化了，å�‡ä½¿æ¯�个社会都净化了，人类统统都净化了，那么我们这个世间就æˆ�为人间净土了。

• Spnw07

  29 Jan 08, 11:30

  Originally posted by bohiruci:

  念佛can also enter 念佛三昧

  depends on �人根器

  �正 心佛众生 三无差别

   

  广庆�和尚说

  念佛打七

  贵在一心

  ��。念佛或�禅都好。念佛三昧是一�禅定境界，所以念佛中有禅，禅中有佛，相通无�。所以念佛人或�于�禅者，��修习方法正确�勇猛精进，自然都会�获益处。

  注：现在念佛多指å�£ä¸Žå¿ƒï¼Œè‡³è¯šç§°å¿µé˜¿å¼¥é™€ä½›çš„å��å�·ï¼Œå¿ƒä¸­å¿µå¿µæƒ³å¿µç�€äº²è¿‘阿弥陀佛，å�¬é—»æ­£æ³•ã€‚é�žç¦…/天å�°å®—/å�Žä¸¥/唯识所说的念佛自性，一心三观等“ç�†”上的修行法。

   

• justdoit77

  29 Jan 08, 14:56

  bohiruci, your chinese nick leh?

  How abt �是如此

• bohiruci

  29 Jan 08, 16:24

  Originally posted by justdoit77:

  bohiruci, your chinese nick leh?

  How abt �是如此

  
  yeah i like it ;)

  urs is 咱门就干�77![JUSTDOIT77]

   

   

• An Eternal Now

  30 Jan 08, 03:07

  Originally posted by bohiruci:

  �禅

   

  �禅... not do zen. I corrected your title.

• bohiruci

  30 Jan 08, 06:08

  Originally posted by An Eternal Now:

  �禅... not do zen. I corrected your title.

  
  zen ��或�何�定相?

  �禅 is the general term for meditation ,be it sitting , walking ,sleeping (thats too high)

   

   

• sinweiy

  30 Jan 08, 08:44

  for me i prefer nianfo. though it depend on individual capability. in essence, both are equally GOOD.

  like Chairman Mao's saying, doesn't matter if it's a white cat or black cat, as long as it can catch mice, it's a Good cat. :)

  so be it 念佛 or �/�禅, as long as it can reduce your wandering mind and affliction, it's a good Meditation. yes 念佛 is also a form of Meditation.

  念佛 and å��/å�šç¦… both have 止观 (Tientai) in them.

  念 is 止. �/� is also 止.

  佛(which mean 觉) is 观. 禅 is also 观.

  Theravada called it Samatha meditation & Vipassana Meditation too.

  戒定慧. NOBLE EIGHTFOLD PATH:-

  8. Right Meditation

  Meditation means the gradual process of training the mind to focus on a single object and to remain fixed upon the object without wavering. The constant practice of meditation helps one to develop a calm and concentrated mind and help to prepare one for the attainment of Wisdom and Enlightenment ultimately.

  /\

   

   

• bohiruci

  31 Jan 08, 20:56

  both is taught by Buddha Sakyamuni in his Compassionate teaching to the World

  He knows our mind can attain samadhi and liberate thru Holy Name or Realise the True Nature of thing

   

  一切为如�一代时教

  如�知我们�入定中得解脱,称念佛�,或了误空性

   

   

• Ser~pent

  1 Feb 08, 10:27

   deleted nonsense post :O

• Ser~pent

  1 Feb 08, 10:31

  wrong post

• An Eternal Now

  2 Feb 08, 11:12

  Originally posted by Ser~pent:

   

  Why you delete your post?

  Nvm I can still remember what you were asking...

  Please read through this article, written by my local dharma teacher.

  

• Ser~pent

  2 Feb 08, 11:35

  Originally posted by An Eternal Now:

  Why you delete your post?

  Nvm I can still remember what you were asking...

  Please read through this article, written by my local dharma teacher.

  

  
  �禅GOOD