I need help!

• Canihelpyou02

  2 Feb 08, 19:43

  How to realise the Buddha nature? Please help me! I will very grateful! Thanks.

• An Eternal Now

  2 Feb 08, 22:39

  Do not fall into the wrong understanding that the one asking is your original face.

  Do not wrongly identify the pure sense of you as the YOU.

  Do not wrongly perceive the thinker, the knower, the eternal witness as buddha nature.

  Do not think such experience of the 'pure I AM' as ultimate.

  Clear our mind completely of these misunderstandings and misperception.

  This is the first step.

• kumangal

  2 Feb 08, 23:43

  wah so chim

• An Eternal Now

  3 Feb 08, 00:15

  Originally posted by kumangal:

  wah so chim

  Thats why must see conditions... see the person's experience and understandings. You see, dharma is not fixed dharma... (fa wu ding fa, ding fa fei fa) one should only speak and write based on conditions. When "maggot" suggested something like learning about Shurangama Sutra I quickly told him that for you, I think it is better to start on beginner and more understandable books, because the condition is that that is most suitable. Because for starters it is best not to get confused.

  I highly recommend you to grab some good Buddhist books that is more suitable for starters.. to learn more about Buddhism. If you take some of the free CDs from the Vihara you went for the Da Bei Can.. then you will certainly learn more about 'how to realise Buddha Nature'.

• justdoit77

  3 Feb 08, 08:02

  Originally posted by Canihelpyou02:

  How to realise the Buddha nature? Please help me! I will very grateful! Thanks.

  
  Generally, one need to do the following:
  1)Take Refuge
  2)Have faith in buddha
  3)Take precepts, mind your action and mind
  4)Attend dharma talk, understand how to practice then start practicing everyday

  As you progress further, pls remember.
  1)Number one rule, all dharma are buddha's teaching, while you are practicing this dharma door (法门), you must not despise or lookdown on other method, else it will create very bad karma for you.
  2)It is good to gain knowledge, but must apply it in life.
  3)Progress means reduction in the 3 poisons, greed, hatred, ignorance. Become more compassion & wise, less wondering thoughts.
  4)Join a buddhist group, discuss together, share your thoughts with them.
  5)Don't expect to clear all your bad karma or even be enlightened overnight, we all live countless unenlightened lifes in the past. The fastest way to liberate from samsara is to practice correctly and step by step.

  also, welcome to sgforums and buddhism forum, hope to see you more often. :)

• Canihelpyou02

  3 Feb 08, 14:39

  I dont like speech and words.Worst is explaination? Because explaination cannot reach the Buddha nature.

  Can any one explain water to me?

  so,what is water?

   

  To attain Your true self dont need any steps.There is even no door.

• An Eternal Now

  3 Feb 08, 14:56

  Originally posted by Canihelpyou02:

  I dont like speech and words.Worst is explaination? Because explaination cannot reach the Buddha nature.

  Can any one explain water to me?

  so,what is water?

   

  To attain Your true self dont need any steps.There is even no door.

  If no words can touch the essence why is there the question.

  To know the pathless, see words and wordlessness as one.

  Non-conceptuality is just the beginning, it is far from the totality of our marvelous nature's manifestation. Use words and engage in speeches, dirty your hands and walk on!
  
  

• kamponggirl

  4 Feb 08, 15:42

  Buddha Samantabhadra's Supplication
  
  HO
  All that appears and exists, all of samsara and nirvana,
  Has one ground, two paths and two results.
  It is the display of awareness and ignorance.
  Through the aspiration of Samantabhadra
  May all be fully awakened
  In the citadel of the dharmadhatu.
  
  The ground of all is uncomposed,
  An inexpressible, self-arisen expanse
  Without the names "samsara" and "nirvana."
  If it is known, buddhahood is attained.
  Not knowing it, beings wander in samsara.
  May all beings of the three realms
  Know the inexpressible ground.
  
  I, Samantabhadra
  Know naturally that ground
  Without cause and condition.
  I am without the defects of superimposition and denial of outer and inner.
  I am unobscured by the darkness of mindlessness.
  Therefore, self-appearance is unobscured.
  If self-awareness remains in place
  There is no fear even if the three-fold world is destroyed.
  There is no attachment to the five desirables.
  In self-arisen, non-conceptual awareness
  There is no solid form or five poisons.
  
  The unceasing lucidity of awareness
  Is five wisdoms of one nature.
  Through the ripening of the five wisdoms
  The five families of the first buddha arose.
  From the further expansion of wisdom
  The forty-two buddhas arose.
  As the display of five wisdoms
  The sixty blood drinkers arose.
  Therefore, ground-awareness never became confused.
  As I am the first buddha,
  Through my aspiration
  May beings of samsara's three realms
  Recognize self-arisen awareness
  And expand great wisdom.
  
  My emanations are unceasing.
  I manifest inconceivable billions,
  Displayed as whatever tames beings.
  Through my compassionate aspiration
  May all beings of samsara's three realms
  Escape the six states.
  
  At first, for bewildered beings
  Awareness did not arise on the ground.
  That obscurity of unconsciousness
  Is the cause of bewildered ignorance.
  From that unconsciousness
  Emerged terrified, blurry cognition.
  Self - other and enmity were born from that.
  Through the gradual intensification of habit
  Sequential entry into samsara began.
  The five poisonous kleshas developed.
  The actions of the five poisons are unceasing.
  Therefore, since the ground of the confusion of beings
  Is mindless ignorance,
  Through the aspiration of myself, the buddha,
  May all recognize awareness.
  
  The connate ignorance
  Is a distracted, mindless cognition.
  The labeling ignorance
  Is holding self and other to be two.
  The two ignorances, connate and labeling,
  Are the ground of the confusion of all beings.
  Through the aspiration of myself, the buddha,
  May the thick, mindless obscurity
  Of all samsaric beings be dispelled.
  May dualistic cognition be clarified.
  May awareness be recognized.
  
  Dualism is doubt.
  From the emergence of subtle clinging
  Coarse habit gradually develops.
  Food, wealth, clothing, places, companions,
  The five desirables and beloved relatives --
  Beings are tormented by attachment to the pleasant.
  That is mundane confusion.
  There is no end to the actions of dualism.
  When the fruit of clinging ripens,
  Born as pretas tormented by craving --
  How sad is their hunger and thirst.
  Through the aspiration of myself, the buddha,
  May desirous beings
  Not reject the longing of desire
  Nor accept the clinging of attachment.
  By relaxing cognition as it is
  May their awareness take its seat.
  May they attain the wisdom of discrimination.
  
  Through the emergence of a subtle, fearful cognition
  Of externally apparent objects
  The habit of aversion grows.
  Coarse enmity, beating and killing are born.
  When the fruit of aversion ripens,
  How much suffering there is in hell through boiling and burning.
  Through the aspiration of myself, the buddha,
  When strong aversion arises
  In all beings of the six states,
  May it be relaxed without rejection or acceptance.
  Awareness taking its seat,
  May beings attain the wisdom of clarity.
  
  One's mind becoming inflated,
  An attitude of superiority to others,
  Fierce pride, is born.
  One experiences the suffering of disputation.
  When the fruit of that action ripens
  One is born as a god and experiences death and downfall.
  Through the aspiration of myself, the buddha,
  May beings with inflated minds
  Relax cognition as it is.
  Awareness taking its seat,
  May they realize equality.
  
  Through the habit of developed dualism,
  From the agony of praising oneself and denigrating others,
  Quarrelsome competitiveness develops.
  Born as an asura, killed and mutilated,
  One falls to hell as a result.
  Through the aspiration of myself, the buddha,
  May those who quarrel through competitiveness
  Relax their enmity.
  Awareness taking its seat,
  May they attain the wisdom of unimpeded activity.
  
  Through the distraction of mindless apathy,
  Through torpor, obscurity, forgetfulness,
  Unconsciousness, laziness and bewilderment,
  One wanders as an unprotected animal as a result.
  Through the aspiration of myself, the buddha,
  May the light of lucid mindfulness arise
  In the obscurity of torpid bewilderment.
  May non-conceptual wisdom be attained.
  
  All beings of the three realms
  Are equal to myself, the buddha, in the all-ground.
  It became the ground of mindless confusion.
  Now, they engage in pointless actions.
  The six actions are like the bewilderment of dreams.
  I am the first buddha.
  I tame the six types of beings through emanations.
  
  Through the aspiration of Samantabhadra,
  May all beings without exception
  Be awakened in the dharmadhatu.
  
  A HO
  From now on whenever a powerful yogin
  Within lucid awareness without bewilderment
  Makes this powerful aspiration,
  All beings who hear it
  Will be fully awakened within three lives.
  
  When the sun or moon is grasped by Rahu,
  When there is clamor or earthquakes,
  At the solstices or at the year's change,
  If he generates himself as Samantabhadra
  And recites this in the hearing of all,
  All beings of the three realms
  Will be gradually freed from suffering
  And will finally attain buddhahood
  Through the aspiration of that yogin.
  
  From the Tantra of the Great Perfection Which Shows the Penetrating Wisdom of Samantabhadra, this is the ninth chapter, which presents the powerful aspiration which makes it impossible for all beings not to attain buddhahood.
  
  Translated by Lama Yeshe Gyamtso and The Dzogchen Ponlop, Rinpoche.
  
  © 1998 by Lama Yeshe Gyamtso and The Dzogchen Ponlop, Rinpoche.
  Maitreya Supplication

• kamponggirl

  4 Feb 08, 15:47

  In Chinese,

   

  頂禮原始本�佛普賢王如來
  
  �
  
  顯空輪涅諸幻相　一根二�二因果
  
  覺与無明所化�　普賢如來廣大愿
  
  令一切�法界宮　速証圓滿佛陀�
  
  　
  
  真如体性本無為　法爾自在絕妙境
  
  原本輪涅無此�　覺了法爾�佛陀
  
  眾生無明墮輪回　普愿三界諸有情
  
  証得离言真實義
  
  　
  
  普賢如來如實曰　真如本性离因緣
  
  法爾原本自在智　內外增減�犯無
  
  失念暗垢無挂礙　故爾自顯离染垢
  
  自性原本清淨�　三界縱惡亦無懼
  
  五欲愛執無貪戀　覺顯無別自然智
  
  自性明空無挂礙　本淨無色無五毒
  
  根本自性具五智　于此五智圓滿境
  
  自顯五智如來佛　廣大無�智慧中
  
  顯�寂�四�二　勇猛五智�光力
  
  顯�六�飲血尊　本体元明未迷失
  
  我�原始本�佛　悲心發起廣大愿
  
  輪回三界有情眾　了知自然本覺明
  
  直至圓滿無�智
  
  　
  
  我之化身無間斷　剎那化�無�尊
  
  一切所求善調�　我發廣大悲�愿
  
  三界輪回有情眾　六�苦厄悉解脫
  
  眾生無始無明故　迷失根本之自性
  
  無知失念�黑暗　此�無明輪回因
  
  　
  
  從彼惊�悶絕中　念動惊醒生怖�
  
  故起自他貪嗔執　習气�染漸增長
  
  世間習性隨生起　五蘊熾盛苦惱逼
  
  五毒惡業無間斷　眾生迷惑之根�
  
  �是無明与失念　由我普賢廣大愿
  
  一切皆明自心性
  
  　
  
  俱生無明蔽本覺　失念迷蒙散亂心
  
  諸相分別因無明　自他二�執為實
  
  俱生分別与無明　�是眾生顛倒因
  
  由我普賢廣大愿　令諸輪回有情眾
  
  消除失念之黑暗　清淨能所二�執
  
  了知真實自心性
  
  　
  
  　
  
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  親�眷屬五欲等　貪著欲樂熾熱惱
  
  彼令世間惑幻生　由是二�業無盡　
  
  貪欲果報�熟時　投生貪惱餓鬼中
  
  常�難�飢渴苦　由我普賢廣大愿
  
  普令貪欲諸有情　��外來貪欲境
  
  �著貪欲生起處　自心安�本明覺
  
  真實覺了���　得証胜妙觀察智
  
  　
  
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  嗔忿果報�熟時　長�地�苦煎熬
  
  由我普賢廣大愿　普令六�諸眾生
  
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  滅苦解脫生死海　�証究竟佛陀�
  
  　
  
  　　原始本�佛普賢王如來為度六�一切有情眾生，發���議胜妙大愿，使一切有情眾生�由自主，超脫輪回，���佛。功德無�。尤其在��祥��動�大�大難或高山風��江海岸邊�眾生�集處念頌大愿文，�其殊胜，無�功德，眾生���三世之內���佛。
  
  
  回��
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• caleb_chiang

  4 Feb 08, 15:49

  Originally posted by Canihelpyou02:

  How to realise the Buddha nature? Please help me! I will very grateful! Thanks.

  
  www.realise_buddha_nature.com

• kamponggirl

  4 Feb 08, 15:56

  If you still don't understand and need more explaination, and you can understand Chinese words, you may want to read these books:

  宗镜录略讲     å�—怀瑾

  http://www.quanxue.cn/CT_NanHuaiJin/ZongJingIndex.html

   

  椤枷大义今释  å�—怀瑾

  http://www.quanxue.cn/CT_NanHuaiJin/LengJiaIndex.html

   

  etc...

   

  But those are only theories... you have to find out the true meaning by yourself.

• kamponggirl

  12 Feb 08, 23:18

  What happened after we realise the Buddha nature? Will we become superman?

• An Eternal Now

  13 Feb 08, 20:00

  Originally posted by An Eternal Now:

  If no words can touch the essence why is there the question.

  To know the pathless, see words and wordlessness as one.

  Non-conceptuality is just the beginning, it is far from the totality of our marvelous nature's manifestation. Use words and engage in speeches, dirty your hands and walk on!
  
  

  Found this today:

  
  Then the venerable Sariputra said to the goddess, "Goddess, how long have you been in this house?"
  
  The goddess replied, "I have been here as long as the elder has been in liberation."
  
  Sariputra said, "Then, have you been in this house for quite some time?"
  
  The goddess said, "Has the elder been in liberation for quite some time?"
  
  At that, the elder Sariputra fell silent.
  
  The goddess continued, "Elder, you are 'foremost of the wise!' Why do you not speak? Now, when it is your turn, you do not answer the question."
  
  Sariputra: Since liberation is inexpressible, goddess, I do not know what to say.
  
  Goddess: All the syllables pronounced by the elder have the nature of liberation. Why? Liberation is neither internal nor external, nor can it be apprehended apart from them. Likewise, syllables are neither internal nor external, nor can they be apprehended anywhere else. Therefore, reverend Sariputra, do not point to liberation by abandoning speech! Why? The holy liberation is the equality of all things!
  
  Sariputra: Goddess, is not liberation the freedom from desire, hatred, and folly?
  
  Goddess: "Liberation is freedom from desire, hatred, and folly" that is the teaching of the excessively proud. But those free of pride are taught that the very nature of desire, hatred, and folly is itself liberation.

   

  ~ Vimalakirti Sutra

• kamponggirl

  14 Feb 08, 00:10

  烦��是��？

  那我现在有很多的烦�，难�我就�到��了�？

   

  其实我也知�，��能得到直接的答案。。。

  �尔感到迷惑，问问罢了。

• An Eternal Now

  14 Feb 08, 00:17

  Originally posted by kamponggirl:

  烦��是��？

  那我现在有很多的烦�，难�我就�到��了�？

   

  其实我也知�，��能得到直接的答案。。。

  �尔感到迷惑，问问罢了。

  Suffering is already always self-liberating...

  But without the insights into non-duality one will never see it and will merely misunderstood it. (Therefore Thusness has warned me not to discuss on the subject of self-liberation)

  Even so suffering is already always self-liberating... it is 'always so'.

  

• An Eternal Now

  14 Feb 08, 00:25

  http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2007/11/right-click-on-picture-then-click-show.html
  

  Self-Liberation

  (Right click on picture, then click Show Picture/Show Image to view picture in full)
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  "...And with that, the entire world self-liberates, because there is simply no "me" to expect anything of it, to make demands of it, to claim to know how any of it works. Freed from the stranglehold of thought, freed from the burden of "me and all my problems", there is a great ease which permeates everything. Freed from goals and meanings, every moment is a goal in itself, everything is intrinsically meaningful, because every moment is all there is, or ever was. Freed from self-consciousness, everything is permissible and consequences are not even possible. And there may still be pain and anger and sadness, but this happens for nobody, and so it doesn't matter anymore (since there's simply nobody here to whom it could possibly matter!). There's pain and anger and sadness, but they don't belong to anyone. And so, since nobody is claiming them, they just dissolve of their own accord, in their own time.

  
  And everything being talked about here is already the case, for all of us (and yes, that includes "you", of course!). Already, there is liberation. Already, there is freedom from it all. Truly, right now, there is nothing more to attain. Thoughts arise, sounds arise, sights arise, feelings in the body arise, but they always already arise for nobody.
  
  And this may be noticed, or it may not; it really doesn't make a blind bit of difference. There's nobody there to notice it, anyway. And nobody would "get" anything from noticing this, even if they could...
  
  ~ Jeff Foster (do check his site, http://www.lifewithoutacentre.com/)
  
  --------------
  
  "...it seems that lots of effort need to be put in -- which is really not the case. The entire practice turns out to an undoing process. It is a process of gradually understanding the workings of our nature that is from beginning liberated but clouded by this sense of ‘self’ that is always trying to preserve, protect and ever attached. The entire sense of self is a ‘doing’. Whatever we do, positive or negative, is still doing. Ultimately there is not-even a letting go or let be, as there is already continuous dissolving and arising and this ever dissolving and arising turns out to be self-liberating. Without this ‘self’ or ‘Self’, there is no ‘doing’, there is only spontaneous arising. "
  
  ~ our forummer, Thusness (source: Non-dual and karmic patterns)
  
  "...When one is unable to see the truth of our nature, all letting go is nothing more than another from of holding in disguise. Therefore without the 'insight', there is no releasing.... it is a gradual process of deeper seeing. when it is seen, the letting go is natural. You cannot force urself into giving up the self... purification to me is always these insights... non-dual and emptiness nature...."
  
  ~ Thusness
  --------------
  
  From a pure insight practice point of view, you can’t ever fundamentally “let go” of anything, so I sometimes wish the popularity of this misleading and indifference-prod

  ucing admonition would decline, or at least be properly explained. However, if you simply investigate the truth of the Three Characteristics of the sensations that seemed to be a solid thing, you will come to the wondrous realization that reality is continually “letting go” of itself! Thus, “let it go” at its best actually means, “don’t give a bunch of transient sensations an excessive sense of solidity.” It does not mean, “stop feeling or caring,” nor does it mean, “pretend that the noise in your mind is not there.”
  
  ~ Theravadin teacher, Dharma Dan
  
  --------------
  
  ...The particular method of Dzogchen is called the Path of Self-Liberation, and to apply it nothing need be renounced, purified, or transformed. Whatever arises as one's karmic vision is used as the path. The great master Pha Tampa Sangye [South Indian Yogin of the 11 century (ed.)] once said: It is not the circumstances which arise as one's karmic vision that condition a person into the dualistic state; it is a person's own attachment that enables what arises to condition him. If this attachment is to be cut through in the most rapid and effective way, the mind's spontaneous capacity to self-liberate must be brought into play. The term self-liberation should not, however, be taken as implying that there is some 'self' or ego there to be liberated. It is a fundamental assumption...at the Dzogchen level, that all phenomena are void of self-nature. 'Self -Liberation', in the Dzogchen sense, means that whatever manifests in the field of experience of the practitioner is allowed to arise just as it is, without judgement of it as good or bad, beautiful or ugly. And in that same moment, if there is no clinging, or attachment, without effort, or even volition, whatever it is that arises, whether as a thought or as a seemingly external event, automatically liberates itself, by itself, and of itself. Practicing in this way the seeds of the poison tree of dualistic vision never even get a chance to sprout, much less to take root and grow.(p33)
  
  So the practitioner lives his or her life in an ordinary way, without needing any rules other than one's own awareness, always remaining in the primordial state through integrating that state with whatever arises as part of experience -- with absolutely nothing to be seen outwardly to show that one is practicing. This is what is meant by self-liberation, this is what is meant by the name Dzogchen - which means Great Perfection - and this is what is meant by non-dual contemplation, or simply contemplation....
  
  ~ Dzogchen teacher, Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche
  
  -------------------
  

  Then the venerable Sariputra said to the goddess, "Goddess, how long have you been in this house?"
  
  The goddess replied, "I have been here as long as the elder has been in liberation."
  
  Sariputra said, "Then, have you been in this house for quite some time?"
  
  The goddess said, "Has the elder been in liberation for quite some time?"
  
  At that, the elder Sariputra fell silent.
  
  The goddess continued, "Elder, you are 'foremost of the wise!' Why do you not speak? Now, when it is your turn, you do not answer the question."
  
  Sariputra: Since liberation is inexpressible, goddess, I do not know what to say.
  
  Goddess: All the syllables pronounced by the elder have the nature of liberation. Why? Liberation is neither internal nor external, nor can it be apprehended apart from them. Likewise, syllables are neither internal nor external, nor can they be apprehended anywhere else. Therefore, reverend Sariputra, do not point to liberation by abandoning speech! Why? The holy liberation is the equality of all things!
  
  Sariputra: Goddess, is not liberation the freedom from desire, hatred, and folly?
  
  Goddess: "Liberation is freedom from desire, hatred, and folly" that is the teaching of the excessively proud. But those free of pride are taught that the very nature of desire, hatred, and folly is itself liberation.

  ~ Vimalakirti Nirdesa Sutra

  -------------------

   

  "Good sons, all hindrances are none other than ultimate enlightenment. Whether you attain mindfulness or lose mindfulness, there is no non-liberation. Establishing the Dharma and refuting the Dharma are both called nirvana; wisdom and folly are equally prajna; the method that is perfected by bodhisattvas and false teachers is the same bodhi; ignorance and suchness are not different realms; morality, concentration and wisdom, as well as desire, hatred and ignorance are all divine practices; sentient beings and lands share the same dharma nature; hell and heaven are both the Pure Land; those having Buddha-nature and those not having it equally accomplish the Buddha's enlightenment. All defilements are ultimately liberation. The reality-realms's ocean-like wisdom completely illumines all marks to be just like empty space. This is called 'the Tath�gata's accordance with the nature of enlightenment.' "

  ~ The Sutra of Perfect Enlightenment

  -------------------
  Thusness:
  
  (http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2007/03/self-liberation-through-seeing-with.html)
  
  Hi Longchen,
  
  Not only that. This work by Padmasambhava is truly deep and profound; it discloses the self-liberating aspect of our intrinsic nature. It is especially important for you now.
  
  At that time when you posted the thread of non-dual and karmic pattern,
  http://buddhism.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=225462, the condition is only right for understanding 'the strength of karmic propensities’, as such, this aspect was not disclosed. Instead, the second door of impermanence was introduced and it was introduced with the purpose to complement the no-self experience you had in order to give rise to this insight of “Self-Liberation”. The sole purpose of the practice of the second door of impermanence is for this insight to arise.
  

  
  I was reading some commentaries about this work, I was disappointed; and with all due respect, I must say it is terribly distorted. The commentator has transformed this great work of Padmasambhava to an Advaita or neo-Advaita teaching. Self Liberating nature of our pristine nature is not to posit naked-awareness as a background where “all thoughts arise and subside’ and the background is not affected by this transient nature of thoughts, it remains constant, changeless and unmoved. ‘Self liberation’ should never be taken to mean this.
  
  There is no Awareness apart from the arising and ceasing of thoughts and yet thought spontaneously arise and subsides in its own accord (self-liberating). It liberates at that very moment of ‘passing away’ (the practice of second door) without the need of effort, simply so. From moment to moment it is so. Thus comes and thus goes. This is its emptiness nature. The emptiness nature liberates instantaneously. By simply so, it is spontaneously self-perfected.
  
  Sentient mind however posit a ‘self’ and holds. Whether the “thought” is good or bad, it attempts to do something to change, whatever direction it goes either good or bad, all is ‘doing’ (karma) and prevents the liberating nature. However without the experience of no-self (Buddhism non-duality not Adviata non-dual), one can never understand this intuitively.
  
  Do read with a reverent heart. Homage to Padmasambhava...

  
  
  UPDATE: Thusness warned that one should never talk about spontaneous arising and self-liberation before the insights of Non-Duality and Emptiness. Only when Non-duality and Emptiness is realised, can spontaneous arising be comprehended.
• Spnw07

  14 Feb 08, 10:00

  Originally posted by kamponggirl:

  烦��是��？

  那我现在有很多的烦�，难�我就�到��了�？

   

  其实我也知�，��能得到直接的答案。。。

  �尔感到迷惑，问问罢了。

  我也一样。我现在有很多的烦�， �是我知�我未���。

  我也知�，�使我追根究底，也��能得到直接的答案。

  我时常感到迷惑，被众佛�们�法师们的解答所迷惑，所以�追问下去。

  觉者是孤独的，但他没有孤独的感觉。智慧就是他的朋��良师。
  愚者是孤独的。å�³ä½¿æœ‰ä¼´ï¼Œä¹Ÿå�ªä¸�过是“烦æ�¼”å’Œ“业障”两ä½�而已。

   

• Spnw07

  14 Feb 08, 10:04

  Originally posted by An Eternal Now:

  Suffering is already always self-liberating...

  But without the insights into non-duality one will never see it and will merely misunderstood it. (Therefore Thusness has warned me not to discuss on the subject of self-liberation)

  Even so suffering is already always self-liberating... it is 'always so'.

  I have to agree with Thusness as well. I don't think everyone who reads extensively or not about the methods to achieve non-duality here or elsewhere will truly be able to achieve true non-duality by self-practice alone. Even with a teacher, it is not guaranteed, only that the chances are higher.

  But I do agree suffering is always self-liberating, for it pushes us to find ways to achieve liberation.

  My understanding about all dharma doors is that actually, in essence, all have the power to help its practitioners in both external and self aspects of cultivation.

  For example, what most consider Pureland practice to be a other-power practice, is in essence, a balanced self-liberating and other-power dharma door at the same time.

  For those practising Zen, it's a very, very direct method to achieve liberation, hence it is viewed by most as just self-liberating, but that doesn't mean it does not have its other-power aspect. It's just not easily observed to be so.

   

• Thusness

  14 Feb 08, 13:01

   

  Hi AEN,

  What I meant is there is no actual benefit in terms of practice before non-dual experience and insight into our emptiness nature.  We cannot talk about self-liberating nature from a ‘dualistic’ and ‘inherent’ standpoint; at least from the perspective of Buddhism or from an experiential point of view.  It is pointless to keep talking about it because it will only lead to misinterpretation and misunderstanding.  However at certain point of our practice, the ‘already is’ is important because as what Longchen has expressed in his post:

  “Yes, there are some challenging situations to non-dual presence. I will share it on the forum..

  In my case, nondual is easier to experience when there are bodily movement. This is when i am walking or eating. The mind rest and just feeling the sensations.

  However, when thinking kicks in... it is not so easy. This can be liken to a dog trying to bite its own tail. The habitual tendency to let go of these thoughts becomes the arising of the dualistic perception. 'Let go' becomes the very effort.  and a  loop cycle ensues. However, there are also  time when the 'let go effort' drops and restfulness follows. ... and one wonders just how silly the 'let go' effort is. LOL.

  The guess is that one must sustain a 'deeper' level of 'knowing' non-efforting.... that cannot be sought after.”

  It is the very insight of “already is” that will lead to ‘effortlessness’.  Expression of 'what already is' is not to proclaim about one’s insight or attainment but rather to bring across to practitioner that the ‘key’, the ‘antidote’ to clear the ‘hurdle’ of effortlessness of sustaining non-dual presence lies in  the ‘already is’, i.e, after the right understanding of our non-dual and non-inherent nature;  and this understanding must take place in our inmost consciousness.
  

   

• An Eternal Now

  14 Feb 08, 14:36

  Originally posted by Spnw07:

  I have to agree with Thusness as well. I don't think everyone who reads extensively or not about the methods to achieve non-duality here or elsewhere will truly be able to achieve true non-duality by self-practice alone. Even with a teacher, it is not guaranteed, only that the chances are higher.

   

  This is not what I meant.

  What I meant was, from the experiential point of view, as Thusness has said, it is not useful to discuss or talk to much about self-liberation especially to beginners. Because  without the insights into non-duality and emptiness, self-liberation will only be misunderstood.

  Hence, when we guide beginners, we should guide them to experience the non-conceptual, symbolic-free realm, to touch/have a direct glimpse of his true nature, and also to guide him to have the right understanding of Anatta (no-self). Only when the insights of No-Self and Emptiness has sufficiently penetrated into his consciousness, can he begin to penetrate self-liberation. When self-liberation has completely penetrated into his consciousness totally, he will attain the effortless stage of Non-Meditation or Non-Practice, which is the 8th Bhumi.

  It is important to note what I meant by self-liberation here, when I talk about self-liberation, Self-liberation does not mean that a self liberates himself or herself from delusorily valued thoughts or delusory experiences; what it means is that delusorily valued thoughts and delusory experiences liberate themselves spontaneously (which may take place in three main ways). (Source: http://eliascapriles.dzogchen.ru/self-liberation.pdf)

• An Eternal Now

  14 Feb 08, 17:30

  Originally posted by Spnw07:

   

  But I do agree suffering is always self-liberating, for it pushes us to find ways to achieve liberation.

  It is true that suffering serves as a condition for liberation and awakening... and many people were led to an awakening experience due to intense suffering.

  Though, the term 'self liberation' I used here is somewhat different.

• Canihelpyou02

  14 Feb 08, 21:03

  KATZ!

  sky is blue,

  tree is green,

  How are you?

• An Eternal Now

  14 Feb 08, 22:09

  Originally posted by Canihelpyou02:

  KATZ!

  sky is blue,

  tree is green,

  How are you?

   

   --- Dead quote.

   

   

  Ant crawling on keyboard.

  Behind screen.

  Gone!

• Spnw07

  15 Feb 08, 14:07

  Originally posted by An Eternal Now:

  This is not what I meant.

  What I meant was, from the experiential point of view, as Thusness has said, it is not useful to discuss or talk to much about self-liberation especially to beginners. Because  without the insights into non-duality and emptiness, self-liberation will only be misunderstood.

  Hence, when we guide beginners, we should guide them to experience the non-conceptual, symbolic-free realm, to touch/have a direct glimpse of his true nature, and also to guide him to have the right understanding of Anatta (no-self). Only when the insights of No-Self and Emptiness has sufficiently penetrated into his consciousness, can he begin to penetrate self-liberation. When self-liberation has completely penetrated into his consciousness totally, he will attain the effortless stage of Non-Meditation or Non-Practice, which is the 8th Bhumi.

  It is important to note what I meant by self-liberation here, when I talk about self-liberation, Self-liberation does not mean that a self liberates himself or herself from delusorily valued thoughts or delusory experiences; what it means is that delusorily valued thoughts and delusory experiences liberate themselves spontaneously (which may take place in three main ways). (Source: http://eliascapriles.dzogchen.ru/self-liberation.pdf)

  The thing is because one word in Buddhism has too many hidden or subtle meanings, it does not really help beginners. This will only cause most of them to 分别 and 执著。

  The more terms that appear, more terms that are used to explain that term, the more we lead others further away from the Truth.

  Because it is so hard to lead others to really understand Anatta, emptiness and the self-liberation (in terms of delusional thoughts and experiences liberating themselves spontaneously) by words alone to beginners, it's best we stick to explaining in more elaborate and practical terms what is compassion in both secular and Buddhist ways, how to show compassion and how to overcome anger. We can show by example why it is so necessary to show compassion and where it is so necessary to overcome anger from both a secular and Buddhist point of view.

   

• Herzog_Zwei

  16 Feb 08, 01:08

  Originally posted by Spnw07:

  The thing is because one word in Buddhism has too many hidden or subtle meanings, it does not really help beginners. This will only cause most of them to 分别 and 执著。

  The more terms that appear, more terms that are used to explain that term, the more we lead others further away from the Truth.

  Because it is so hard to lead others to really understand Anatta, emptiness and the self-liberation (in terms of delusional thoughts and experiences liberating themselves spontaneously) by words alone to beginners, it's best we stick to explaining in more elaborate and practical terms what is compassion in both secular and Buddhist ways, how to show compassion and how to overcome anger. We can show by example why it is so necessary to show compassion and where it is so necessary to overcome anger from both a secular and Buddhist point of view.

   

  
  The real answer is that there is no real truth and it's all in your mind.