Doubts on sutra of Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva's Original Vows
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I shall summarise all my doubts here:
1. I have posted this doubt as a separate post, so this is a just a re-cap. How should we interpret Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva's vows not to achieve Buddhahood until hell is empty?
1.1 Literally or figuratively? Is it a mere analogy, encouragment or reassurance of a superficial nature?
1.2 Ksitgarbha Bodhisattvas has already gone through many countless aeons since he made that vow and started guiding and delivering sentient beings. So long that he could have attained Buddhahood long ago. This is mentioned clearly by Sakayamuni Buddha. [Most of us know Bodhisattvas need to go through at least 3 great asamkyeya kalpas (三大阿僧祗劫） to attain Buddhahood]
Many Destruction eras had passed while the Bodhisattva is working hard on his cultivation and implementation of his vows. So this means there were countless periods where hells were destroyed in some worlds, but still existed in others. So hell beings in worlds experiencing the Destruction era would be reborn to suffer in the other worlds which do not have Destruction era yet. So hell in general had not once really been empty of suffering beings.
Why particularly the 20th small kalpa of our present Destruction era for total and complete liberation to occur for all samsaric beings in all ten directions?
Can I safely assume the vows cover all beings in all ten directions, from past, present and future?
2. There are countless Bodhisattvas and Buddhas in all ten directions; each Bodhisattva and Buddhas can have countless manifestations and their vows to save sentient beings are essentially the same as Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva, for compassion and wisdom is common for all of them.
2.1 So why is Sakayamuni Buddha praising Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva so much? Why is he encouraging us to seek refuge in the Bodhisattva? (To recite his name, cultivate his virtues, etc) Other Bodhisattvas are just as well-qualified to help us, isn't it? For example, Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva (观世音��).
2.2 What have the other Bodhisattvas and Buddhas from all worlds and directions been doing during this period where Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva is implementing his vows? Is it just to wait or to look at us suffer? Is it just to teach dharma to the Bodhisattvas, arahants and heavenly beings?
If one Bodhisattva can have countless manifestations to teach countless beings in countless worlds in all ten directions from past/present/future, imagine what countless Bodhisattvas and Buddhas in all worlds and directions can do if they choose to appear in countless manifestations like Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva? Totally inconceivable! No sentient being would be lost, no sentient being would have to suffer for aeons in the 3 evil realms anymore.
3. We have been taught in the sutra or teach others using the sutra to practise filial piety, to show eternal gratefulness and heartfelt appreciation towards our parents. But we have also been parents in our countless rebirths, and some of our children could be our parents now.
3.1 If any of our children has attained enlightment, sainthood or even reborn as heavenly beings, they should/would have wanted very much to help us to be happy too. But yet we fall and fall for aeons without really having anyone compassionate and patient enough to guide us for countless lifetimes till we attained liberation like what Ksitigarbha or Sakayamuni Buddha does for everyone. Why? How can this happen?
3.2 We often have to dedicate merits to all beings after doing any good deed, having good thoughts or reciting sutras, etc, and we are taught that our parents should be the first and main recipients of our merits. But is there any positive effect from our dedication?
If my sons/daughers from previous lifetimes are now Buddhists, born in this Dharma-ending age and he/she dedicates merits to all parents from countless lifetimes, then presumably all parents, including me should be able to receive the merit and benefit greatly from it. But do you feel anything? Do you see any change in you?
As such I am very lost and doubtful as to what role does merit dedication (回�) really play and what real benefits does it reap for all beings.
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Originally posted by Spnw07:
I shall summarise all my doubts here:
1. I have posted this doubt as a separate post, so this is a just a re-cap. How should we interpret Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva's vows not to achieve Buddhahood until hell is empty?
1.1 Literally or figuratively? Is it a mere analogy, encouragment or reassurance of a superficial nature?
1.2 Ksitgarbha Bodhisattvas has already gone through many countless aeons since he made that vow and started guiding and delivering sentient beings. So long that he could have attained Buddhahood long ago. This is mentioned clearly by Sakayamuni Buddha. [Most of us know Bodhisattvas need to go through at least 3 great asamkyeya kalpas (三大阿僧祗劫） to attain Buddhahood]
Many Destruction eras had passed while the Bodhisattva is working hard on his cultivation and implementation of his vows. So this means there were countless periods where hells were destroyed in some worlds, but still existed in others. So hell beings in worlds experiencing the Destruction era would be reborn to suffer in the other worlds which do not have Destruction era yet. So hell in general had not once really been empty of suffering beings.
Why particularly the 20th small kalpa of our present Destruction era for total and complete liberation to occur for all samsaric beings in all ten directions?
Can I safely assume the vows cover all beings in all ten directions, from past, present and future?
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AEN:
Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva's vows are not only real/literal but achievable. If it is not achievable then he wouldn't have phrased it that way. Everyone's Buddha Nature is complete, everyone will attain Buddhahood eventually, Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva will also attain Buddhahood eventually.
If I'm not wrong, Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva's is working in this world system. In fact Sinweiy has said something like after Shakyamuni's dharma disappeared, and before Maitreya attains Buddhahood, in this period Ksitigarbha is our world's 'representative' of dharma, something like that.
Hence, when the hell beings have become liberated in our world, Ksitigarbha attains Buddhahood.
I think there are other Bodhisattvas like Ksitigarbha helping other world systems.
2. There are countless Bodhisattvas and Buddhas in all ten directions; each Bodhisattva and Buddhas can have countless manifestations and their vows to save sentient beings are essentially the same as Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva, for compassion and wisdom is common for all of them.
2.1 So why is Sakayamuni Buddha praising Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva so much? Why is he encouraging us to seek refuge in the Bodhisattva? (To recite his name, cultivate his virtues, etc) Other Bodhisattvas are just as well-qualified to help us, isn't it? For example, Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva (观世音��).
2.2 What have the other Bodhisattvas and Buddhas from all worlds and directions been doing during this period where Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva is implementing his vows? Is it just to wait or to look at us suffer? Is it just to teach dharma to the Bodhisattvas, arahants and heavenly beings?
If one Bodhisattva can have countless manifestations to teach countless beings in countless worlds in all ten directions from past/present/future, imagine what countless Bodhisattvas and Buddhas in all worlds and directions can do if they choose to appear in countless manifestations like Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva? Totally inconceivable! No sentient being would be lost, no sentient being would have to suffer for aeons in the 3 evil realms anymore.
Shakyamuni Buddha never praised Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva alone, he also told us to recite, cultivate the virtues of Avalokitesvara (see Lotus Sutra) and others. All the great Bodhisattvas in Mahayana are representative of a particular Bodhisattva quality we should follow.
Next is, every Bodhisattva will have their own vows. When they attain Buddhahood it is also different, due to their previous vows... like Amitabha vowed to make Sukhavati pure land, Shakyamuni vowed that his pure land is right here in samsara. They all have their own vows to help liberate sentient beings.
Another point you must take note is, even if the Buddhas or Bodhisattvas manifest to everyone, it is not going to be much help if there is no 'yuan'... if you teach dharma to someone who doesn't have 'yuan', he won't listen or benefit.
3. We have been taught in the sutra or teach others using the sutra to practise filial piety, to show eternal gratefulness and heartfelt appreciation towards our parents. But we have also been parents in our countless rebirths, and some of our children could be our parents now.
3.1 If any of our children has attained enlightment, sainthood or even reborn as heavenly beings, they should/would have wanted very much to help us to be happy too. But yet we fall and fall for aeons without really having anyone compassionate and patient enough to guide us for countless lifetimes till we attained liberation like what Ksitigarbha or Sakayamuni Buddha does for everyone. Why? How can this happen?
3.2 We often have to dedicate merits to all beings after doing any good deed, having good thoughts or reciting sutras, etc, and we are taught that our parents should be the first and main recipients of our merits. But is there any positive effect from our dedication?
If my sons/daughers from previous lifetimes are now Buddhists, born in this Dharma-ending age and he/she dedicates merits to all parents from countless lifetimes, then presumably all parents, including me should be able to receive the merit and benefit greatly from it. But do you feel anything? Do you see any change in you?
As such I am very lost and doubtful as to what role does merit dedication (回�) really play and what real benefits does it reap for all beings.
It certainly can help. But how do you know your children has become Buddhist and dedicate merits? These kind of things are difficult to know.
You won't know if your children in past lives has become Buddhists and dedicate merits for you. How would you know? Unless you have psychic powers. But dedication of merits is real.
Anyway as for your 3.1, you don't need children who have attained enlightenment to guide you... any enlightened beings if he has 'yuan' with you can help you, no need to be your children in recent lifetimes.
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
AEN:
Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva's vows are not only real/literal but achievable. If it is not achievable then he wouldn't have phrased it that way. Everyone's Buddha Nature is complete, everyone will attain Buddhahood eventually, Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva will also attain Buddhahood eventually.
If I'm not wrong, Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva's is working in this world system. In fact Sinweiy has said something like after Shakyamuni's dharma disappeared, and before Maitreya attains Buddhahood, in this period Ksitigarbha is our world's 'representative' of dharma, something like that.
Hence, when the hell beings have become liberated in our world, Ksitigarbha attains Buddhahood.
I think there are other Bodhisattvas like Ksitigarbha helping other world systems.
Shakyamuni Buddha never praised Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva alone, he also told us to recite, cultivate the virtues of Avalokitesvara (see Lotus Sutra) and others. All the great Bodhisattvas in Mahayana are representative of a particular Bodhisattva quality we should follow.
Next is, every Bodhisattva will have their own vows. When they attain Buddhahood it is also different, due to their previous vows... like Amitabha vowed to make Sukhavati pure land, Shakyamuni vowed that his pure land is right here in samsara. They all have their own vows to help liberate sentient beings.
Another point you must take note is, even if the Buddhas or Bodhisattvas manifest to everyone, it is not going to be much help if there is no 'yuan'... if you teach dharma to someone who doesn't have 'yuan', he won't listen or benefit.
It certainly can help. But how do you know your children has become Buddhist and dedicate merits? These kind of things are difficult to know.
You won't know if your children in past lives has become Buddhists and dedicate merits for you. How would you know? Unless you have psychic powers. But dedication of merits is real.
Anyway as for your 3.1, you don't need children who have attained enlightenment to guide you... any enlightened beings if he has 'yuan' with you can help you, no need to be your children in recent lifetimes.
I don't mean to say Sakayamuni praised Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva alone, but the praise upon the Bodhisattva is very great, greater than what I read in sutras on other Bodhisattvas.
Every bodhisattva vows to save all beings, so that is common. Remember the four unlimited mind (å››æ— é‡�心）that is the basis for cultivating bodhicitta and atttaining Buddhahood.
"All the great Bodhisattvas in Mahayana are representative of a particular Bodhisattva quality we should follow." Why is this so? Any single bodhisattva would have achieved the necessary virtues of compassion, wisdom, forbearance and fillial piety in them.
Does it mean that only Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva makes the vow to help all beings as a result of the suffering of his/her parents in previous lifetimes?
What is 'yuan'? How you do establish 'yuan' with a sentient being? Why can't every Bodhisattva or Buddha establish 'yuan' with every sentient being?
I remember Sakayamuni Buddha saying that those who recite or heard (with or without belief) the words "Namo Buddhaya" (but does not mention whether it applies to only those who have cultivated at all) will eventually be delivered by the future Maitreya Buddha.
So can this mean that anyone who recites or has heard of the words "Namo Buddhaya" with or without any belief, will eventually form a 'yuan' with all Buddhas of past, present and future?
I may not know if my children has become Buddhists and have started to dedicate merits, but I believe in possibilities that there are some who are not Buddhists exactly but believe in past lives, would remember fondly, would wish fondly for parents of past lifetimes to be free from suffering.
I remember a story where an old woman went to see the Buddha and hugged him dearly. Venerable Ananda tried to stop, but the Buddha said it was ok. "This woman had been my mother during the past 500 lifetimes". The Buddha then continued to preach the dharmma to the old woman and she supposedly gained sainthood or something. I couldn't remember exactly.
If there is a bond as close as this, it would be easier for any Bodhisattva or Buddha to approach any one of us as we would have been closely related and enjoyed close emotional bonds during past lifetimes.
If my children are not Buddhists, but they could be heavenly beings. Surely they would care for their parents of previous lifetimes as they now have the ability to look at the past and future (but not as far as arahants, Bodhisattvas and Buddhas of course).
People go to heaven mainly because they practise a high level of good deeds: The Five precepts are very well-maintained during their lifetimes and they do not get or stay angry easily, are not greedy or indulgent in unwholesome views. This is taught and revealed in the sutra of Ten wholesome deeds (佛说�善业��). One of them mentioned in many sutras is fillial piety.
If fillial piety helps you to gain rebirth in the heavenly realm and that the degree to which you love and respect your parents allows you to gain certain heavenly luminance or powers greater than the rest, and when you use your divine powers to search for your parents of past and present, and you see them suffering, would you not do something for them?
There are stories recorded in sutras that some heavenly beings upon their immediate rebirth into the heavenly being, come down to help their parents to overcome their grief or their stubborn evil ways.
But that is only for some, not all heavenly beings do this though, and I wonder why.
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Originally posted by Spnw07:
2.1 So why is Sakayamuni Buddha praising Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva so much? Why is he encouraging us to seek refuge in the Bodhisattva? (To recite his name, cultivate his virtues, etc) Other Bodhisattvas are just as well-qualified to help us, isn't it? For example, Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva (观世音��).
2.2 What have the other Bodhisattvas and Buddhas from all worlds and directions been doing during this period where Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva is implementing his vows? Is it just to wait or to look at us suffer? Is it just to teach dharma to the Bodhisattvas, arahants and heavenly beings?
If one Bodhisattva can have countless manifestations to teach countless beings in countless worlds in all ten directions from past/present/future, imagine what countless Bodhisattvas and Buddhas in all worlds and directions can do if they choose to appear in countless manifestations like Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva? Totally inconceivable! No sentient being would be lost, no sentient being would have to suffer for aeons in the 3 evil realms anymore.
3. We have been taught in the sutra or teach others using the sutra to practise filial piety, to show eternal gratefulness and heartfelt appreciation towards our parents. But we have also been parents in our countless rebirths, and some of our children could be our parents now.
3.1 If any of our children has attained enlightment, sainthood or even reborn as heavenly beings, they should/would have wanted very much to help us to be happy too. But yet we fall and fall for aeons without really having anyone compassionate and patient enough to guide us for countless lifetimes till we attained liberation like what Ksitigarbha or Sakayamuni Buddha does for everyone. Why? How can this happen?
3.2 We often have to dedicate merits to all beings after doing any good deed, having good thoughts or reciting sutras, etc, and we are taught that our parents should be the first and main recipients of our merits. But is there any positive effect from our dedication?
If my sons/daughers from previous lifetimes are now Buddhists, born in this Dharma-ending age and he/she dedicates merits to all parents from countless lifetimes, then presumably all parents, including me should be able to receive the merit and benefit greatly from it. But do you feel anything? Do you see any change in you?
As such I am very lost and doubtful as to what role does merit dedication (回�) really play and what real benefits does it reap for all beings.
The buddha and bodhisatva can appear right in front of us, but due to our negative karma, we can't see them. Even if we have the good karma and karmic affinity to see them, due to our ignorance, we may ignore them.
Imagine if buddha sakyamuni or guanyin bodhisatva appear as a human being in front of a evil person, the evil person may make bad speech that further increase his bad karma instead. To this kind of people, for their own sake, I'd rather not to tell him dharma though he was my past parents and children.
We can dedicate merit to all sentient beings, but the effect has a limit.
Likewise, all buddhas also give blessings to us. I don't know how many percent of the things that we have now is due to buddha's blessing. But seriously, we are fortunate enough to know dharma, without buddha, no matter how much merit you made you won't get to know dharma. But one can't just rely on them alone, if you don't accumulate enough merit, even if buddha or a bodhisatva live in the same town as you, your condition will make you not able to get to know him. -
Originally posted by Spnw07:
If fillial piety helps you to gain rebirth in the heavenly realm and that the degree to which you love and respect your parents allows you to gain certain heavenly luminance or powers greater than the rest, and when you use your divine powers to search for your parents of past and present, and you see them suffering, would you not do something for them?
There are stories recorded in sutras that some heavenly beings upon their immediate rebirth into the heavenly being, come down to help their parents to overcome their grief or their stubborn evil ways.
But that is only for some, not all heavenly beings do this though, and I wonder why.
When a person born in heaven, he will enjoy the pleasure to the extent that he will forget about all kinds of sorrowness. He may no longer remember to help the sentient beings and even practice the dharma.
But if the person born in tushita heaven inner palace, then he will still have chance to practice and listen to dharma spoken by maitreya bodhisatva. -
The sutras are already present , telling us how to gain enlightenment. We just have to follow it consciously , not necessary for enlightened beings to be present to teach us. What they are going to teach us , are the content of the sutras.
Of course , when the enlightened beings are around , we are able to progress more.
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Originally posted by knightlll:
The sutras are already present , telling us how to gain enlightenment. We just have to follow it consciously , not necessary for enlightened beings to be present to teach us. What they are going to teach us , are the content of the sutras.
Of course , when the enlightened beings are around , we are able to progress more.
This "progress more" can make a big difference.
Imagine if after buddha sakyamuni enter nirvana, no more enlightened beings and great teachers like padmasambavha 莲花生, zongkapa 宗喀巴, how will the tibetan buddhism will be like now. If without 玄奘法师,é¾™æ ‘è�©è�¨ to translate the sutras for us, that's it, we may not be in this realm now. We must really be grateful of their compassion and bodhicitta to us. -
Originally posted by justdoit77:
When a person born in heaven, he will enjoy the pleasure to the extent that he will forget about all kinds of sorrowness. He may no longer remember to help the sentient beings and even practice the dharma.
But if the person born in tushita heaven inner palace, then he will still have chance to practice and listen to dharma spoken by maitreya bodhisatva.True, I have heard that too about those being able to be reborn in Tushita heave inner palace. But do you know how high the criteria is?
Because it is so sad to know that when a good person is born in heaven, he may no longer remember to help sentient beings or practice the dharma, and I also know the super-high criteria to fulfill to be reborn in any heaven, Buddhaland (Amitabha Buddha's Pureland is exceptionl though, the criteria is quite specially made to let as many who wish to go succeed), I decided to tell myself that should I not be able to gain a successful rebirth in Amitabha, should I be reborn as a heavenly being anywhere, I will attend as many dharma talks by Buddhas and Bodhisattvas as possible and share them with fellow heavenly beings or any sentient being that I have 'yuan' with.
I shall become a heavenly being that will not only remember the good that I have done to merit a heavenly birth, I shall be one that will continue to learn more about the Dharma and share them with all. Most importantly, I will remember to help all sentient beings, with whatever knowledge, wisdom or powers that I have.
May this wish come true.
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Originally posted by Spnw07:
True, I have heard that too about those being able to be reborn in Tushita heave inner palace. But do you know how high the criteria is?
Because it is so sad to know that when a good person is born in heaven, he may no longer remember to help sentient beings or practice the dharma, and I also know the super-high criteria to fulfill to be reborn in any heaven, Buddhaland (Amitabha Buddha's Pureland is exceptionl though, the criteria is quite specially made to let as many who wish to go succeed), I decided to tell myself that should I not be able to gain a successful rebirth in Amitabha, should I be reborn as a heavenly being anywhere, I will attend as many dharma talks by Buddhas and Bodhisattvas as possible and share them with fellow heavenly beings or any sentient being that I have 'yuan' with.
I shall become a heavenly being that will not only remember the good that I have done to merit a heavenly birth, I shall be one that will continue to learn more about the Dharma and share them with all. Most importantly, I will remember to help all sentient beings, with whatever knowledge, wisdom or powers that I have.
May this wish come true.
It is easier to go heaven than going to pureland or human realm.
To go to heaven, you just keep precepts and do good things.
Unless you are a realized practitioner, otherwise it is very hard to remember the needs to practice dharma when you reborn in heaven.You must make more vows and dedication of merit if you want to be reborn to a dharma-friendly place. If you want to create 缘 (karmic affinity) with other buddhists or master, go and make friends with them, listen to their dharma talk.
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Originally posted by justdoit77:
It is easier to go heaven than going to pureland or human realm.
To go to heaven, you just keep precepts and do good things.
Unless you are a realized practitioner, otherwise it is very hard to remember the needs to practice dharma when you reborn in heaven.You must make more vows and dedication of merit if you want to be reborn to a dharma-friendly place. If you want to create 缘 (karmic affinity) with other buddhists or master, go and make friends with them, listen to their dharma talk.
Dear justdoit77, from what I understand, the only tough thing is to reborn as a human and be able to get the chance to hear the right form of Dhamma in one's lifetime.
Going to heaven in that sense is not really easy cos you have to be a human at least to put the precepts into practice; you need five precepts plus no greed, no hatred/anger and no unwholesome views and all this has to be maintained till your last thought on your death bed before you can be reborn into a heavenly state. Or if you are born as an animal, some special behaviour has to be observed by you to gain rebirth into any heavenly realm.
Pureland, it depends on which Pureland you are talking about. If you are talking about Maitreya Bodhisattva's Pureland at Tusita Heaven or Medicine's Buddha's Pureland, I agree with you that it is indeed hard, if not very hard for an average practitioner to get there.
But for Amitabha Buddha's Pureland, all you need to do is recite his name wholeheartedly on your deathbed ten times or less, and you wish deeply to be reborn into his pureland, you will be received by the Buddha and his retinue of Bodhisattvas when you have breathed your last. But since many of us are still alive, many Masters practising Amitabha Buddha's name recitation tell us to recite the name out loud or silently in our hearts when we go about our daily activities which don't require analysing. Do this till your last breath, keep the wish to be reborn into Amitabha Buddha's Pureland strong and steadfast, and you will definitely be reborn into the extraordinary beautiful place with no suffering and not to mention, you are completely free from samsaric births and deaths ever since.
No Buddha's vows of the past includes personally appearing to you and guiding you all the way to his Pureland upon death. Only Amitabha Buddha.
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Originally posted by knightlll:
The sutras are already present , telling us how to gain enlightenment. We just have to follow it consciously , not necessary for enlightened beings to be present to teach us. What they are going to teach us , are the content of the sutras.
Of course , when the enlightened beings are around , we are able to progress more.
The sutras are there - but without an enlightened person to guide you, you will not understand, and worse still you will misunderstand the teachings inside.
It is also very important to have a teacher to teach you and guide you on proper practices. And when something goes wrong in your practice and you do not have a teacher, nobody is able to point it out to you.
Also even if you understand the sutra theoretically but don't see your own nature, then it's useless. Sutras are only pointers to your true nature... and having a teacher to directly point out your true nature is important.
You see, only someone who is enlightened to his true nature is able to comprehend what the sutra is talking about. Once he sees his own nature the entire essence of Tripitaka is within his grasp even if he did not study them. But other than that, you are only reading descriptions like the blind men touching the elephant and thinking what he felt is the entirety of the elephant. You need someone to point it out to you, someone who is enlightened.
That is why 1st Chinese Ch'an/Zen Patriarch Bodhidharma said,
To find a Buddha, you have to see your nature." Whoever sees his nature is a Buddha. If you don’t see your nature, invoking Buddhas, reciting sutras, making offerings, and keeping precepts are all useless. Invoking Buddhas results in good karma, reciting sutras results in a good memory; keeping precepts results in a good rebirth, and making offerings results in future blessings-but no buddha. If you don’t understand by yourself, you’ll have to find a teacher to get to the bottom of life and death. But unless he sees his nature, such a person isn’t a teacher. Even if he can recite the Twelvefold Canon he can’t escape the Wheel of Birth and Death. He suffers in the three realms without hope of release. Long ago, the monk Good Star was able to recite the entire Canon. But he didn’t escape the Wheel, because he didn’t see his nature. If this was the case with Good Star, then people nowadays who recite a few sutras or shastras and think it’s the Dharma are fools. Unless you see your mind, reciting so much prose is useless.
To find a Buddha all you have to do is see your nature. Your nature is the Buddha. And the Buddha is the person who’s free: free of plans, free of cares. If you don’t see your nature and run around all day looking somewhere else, you’ll never find a buddha. The truth is there’s nothing to find. But to reach such an understanding you need a teacher and you need to struggle to make yourself understand. Life and death are important. Don’t suffer them in vain.
There’s no advantage in deceiving yourself. Even if you have mountains of jewels and as many servants as there are grains of sand along the Ganges, you see them when your eyes are open. But what about when your eyes are shut? You should realize then that everything you see is like a dream or illusion.
If you don’t find a teacher soon, you’ll live this life in vain. It’s true, you have the buddha-nature. But the help of a teacher you’ll never know it. Only one person in a million becomes enlightened without a teacher’s help. If, though, by the conjunction of conditions, someone understands what the Buddha meant, that person doesn’t need a teacher. Such a person has a natural awareness superior to anything taught. But unless you’re so blessed, study hard, and by means of instruction you’ll understand.
People who don’t understand and think they can do so without study are no different from those deluded souls who can’t tell white from black." Falsely proclaiming the Buddha-Dharma, such persons in fact blaspheme the Buddha and subvert the Dharma. They preach as if they were bringing rain. But theirs is the preaching of devils not of Buddhas. Their teacher is the King of Devils and their disciples are the Devil’s minions. Deluded people who follow such instruction unwittingly sink deeper in the Sea of Birth and Death. Unless they see their nature, how can people call themselves Buddhas they’re liars who deceive others into entering the realm of devils. Unless they see their nature, their preaching of the Twelvefold Canon is nothing but the preaching of devils. Their allegiance is to Mara, not to the Buddha. Unable to distinguish white from black, how can they escape birth and death?
Whoever sees his nature is a Buddha; whoever doesn’t is a mortal. But if you can find your buddha-nature apart from your mortal nature, where is it? Our mortal nature is our Buddha nature. Beyond this nature there’s no Buddha. The Buddha is our nature. There’s no Buddha besides this nature. And there’s no nature besides the Buddha.
But suppose I don’t see my nature, cant I still attain enlightenment by invoking Buddhas, reciting sutras, making offerings, observing precepts, Practicing devotions, or doing good works?
No, you can’t. Why not?
If you attain anything at all, it’s conditional, it’s karmic. It results in retribution. It turns the Wheel. And as long as you’re subject to birth and death, you’ll never attain enlightenment. To attain enlightenment you have to see your nature. Unless you see your nature, all this talk about cause and effect is nonsense. Buddhas don’t practice nonsense. A Buddha free of karma free of cause and effect. To say he attains anything at all is to slander a Buddha. What could he possibly attain? Even focusing on a mind, a power, an understanding, or a view is impossible for a Buddha. A Buddha isn’t one sided. The nature of his mind is basically empty, neither pure nor impure. He’s free of practice and realization. He’s free of cause and effect.
A Buddha doesn’t observe precepts. A Buddha doesn’t do good or evil. A Buddha isn’t energetic or lazy. A Buddha is someone who does nothing, someone who can’t even focus his mind on a Buddha. A Buddha isn’t a Buddha. Don’t think about Buddhas. If you dont see what I’m talking about, you’ll ever know your own mind. People who don’t see their nature and imagine they can practice thoughtlessness all the time are lairs and fools. They fall into endless space. They’re like drunks. They can’t tell good from evil. If you intend to cultivate such a practice, you have to see your nature before you can put an end to rational thought. To attain enlightenment without seeing your nature is impossible. Still others commit all sorts of evil deeds, claiming karma doesn’t exist. They erroneously maintain that since everything is empty committing evil isn’t wrong. Such persons fall into a hell of endless darkness with no hope of release. Those who are wise hold no such conception.
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
A Buddha doesn’t observe precepts. A Buddha doesn’t do good or evil. A Buddha isn’t energetic or lazy. A Buddha is someone who does nothing, someone who can’t even focus his mind on a Buddha. A Buddha isn’t a Buddha. Don’t think about Buddhas.
Why doesn't a Buddha observe precepts? Why doesn't a Buddha do good? Evil of course is out of the way, but good? Why isn't a Buddha diligent? Isn't diligence one of the virtues to cultivate for any aspiring Bodhisattva? Why a Buddha isn't a Buddha?
Why even mention the word "Buddha" if it cannot be mentioned or thought about?
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Originally posted by Spnw07:
Why doesn't a Buddha observe precepts? Why doesn't a Buddha do good? Evil of course is out of the way, but good? Why isn't a Buddha diligent? Isn't diligence one of the virtues to cultivate for any aspiring Bodhisattva? Why a Buddha isn't a Buddha?
Why even mention the word "Buddha" if it cannot be mentioned or thought about?
You should see the context Bodhidharma is explaining from.
There's another verse from the text:
Buddhas don’t save Buddhas. If you use your mind to look for a Buddha, you won’t see the Buddha. As long as you look for a Buddha somewhere else, you’ll never see that your own mind is the Buddha. Don’t use a Buddha to worship a Buddha. And don’t use the mind to invoke a Buddha." Buddhas don’t recite sutras." Buddhas don’t keep precepts." And Buddhas don’t break precepts. Buddhas don’t keep or break anything. Buddhas don’t do good or evil.
Hence we should not think that if Buddhas do not observe precepts, they 'break precepts' as a result.
What Bodhidharma is trying to say is that the Buddha is natural in his life, he does not make an intention or effort to keep something, with the intention of gaining or attaining something. If his natural state/Buddha Nature already possess all virtues, why does he need superficial things like '5 precepts'? His actions are naturally wholesome, does he need to purposely 'practice the 10 wholesome deeds'? All his actions comes forth spontaneously as prajna, he does not cultivate things with 'cause and effect' in mind, or trying to gain or attain something out of it, which otherwise as Bodhidharma said, If you attain anything at all, it’s conditional, it’s karmic. It results in retribution. It turns the Wheel.
The Buddha of course won't kill or tell lies even if 5 precepts didn't exist. 5 Precepts are merely made for sentient beings like as skillful means to prevent us from falling into lower realms, so they are still very important, because if one cannot even keep the precepts he will most certainly fall into the 3 lower realms. But one who beholds the mind does not get affected, he does not 'turn the wheel', he does 'neither good nor evil' and yet his actions arise spontaneously, benefitting all sentient beings.
If we go to the root, the Mind, there is no no need to try to prevent every bad leaves from coming out, because you treat the problem at its root. As Bodhidharma said:
The mind is the root from which all things grow if you can understand the mind, everything else is included. It’s like the root of a tree. All a tree’s fruit and flowers, branches and leaves depend on its root. If you nourish its root, a tree multiplies. If you cut its root, it dies. Those who understand the mind reach enlightenment with minimal effort. Those who don’t understand the mind practice in vain. Everything good and bad comes from your own mind. To find something beyond the mind is impossible.
Lastly, 'Buddha' can be described, but all descriptions are just like pointers to the moon. But it is like describing colours to the blind person, it is useless because the blind can only imagine based on the descriptions, but he can't see or feel it. It must dawn to you as a crystal clear insight that your true nature is already Buddha.
As Bodhidharma explains in the text,
Buddha is Sanskrit for what you call aware, miraculously aware. Responding, arching your brows blinking your eyes, moving your hands and feet, its all your miraculously aware nature. And this nature is the mind. And the mind is the Buddha. And the Buddha is the path. And the path is Zen. But the word Zen is one that remains a puzzle to both mortals and sages. Seeing your nature is Zen. Unless you see your nature, it’s not Zen.
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
The sutras are there - but without an enlightened person to guide you, you will not understand, and worse still you will misunderstand the teachings inside.
It is also very important to have a teacher to teach you and guide you on proper practices. And when something goes wrong in your practice and you do not have a teacher, nobody is able to point it out to you.
Also even if you understand the sutra theoretically but don't see your own nature, then it's useless. Sutras are only pointers to your true nature... and having a teacher to directly point out your true nature is important.
You see, only someone who is enlightened to his true nature is able to comprehend what the sutra is talking about. Once he sees his own nature the entire essence of Tripitaka is within his grasp even if he did not study them. But other than that, you are only reading descriptions like the blind men touching the elephant and thinking what he felt is the entirety of the elephant. You need someone to point it out to you, someone who is enlightened.
That is why 1st Chinese Ch'an/Zen Patriarch Bodhidharma said,
To find a Buddha, you have to see your nature." Whoever sees his nature is a Buddha. If you don’t see your nature, invoking Buddhas, reciting sutras, making offerings, and keeping precepts are all useless. Invoking Buddhas results in good karma, reciting sutras results in a good memory; keeping precepts results in a good rebirth, and making offerings results in future blessings-but no buddha. If you don’t understand by yourself, you’ll have to find a teacher to get to the bottom of life and death. But unless he sees his nature, such a person isn’t a teacher. Even if he can recite the Twelvefold Canon he can’t escape the Wheel of Birth and Death. He suffers in the three realms without hope of release. Long ago, the monk Good Star was able to recite the entire Canon. But he didn’t escape the Wheel, because he didn’t see his nature. If this was the case with Good Star, then people nowadays who recite a few sutras or shastras and think it’s the Dharma are fools. Unless you see your mind, reciting so much prose is useless.
To find a Buddha all you have to do is see your nature. Your nature is the Buddha. And the Buddha is the person who’s free: free of plans, free of cares. If you don’t see your nature and run around all day looking somewhere else, you’ll never find a buddha. The truth is there’s nothing to find. But to reach such an understanding you need a teacher and you need to struggle to make yourself understand. Life and death are important. Don’t suffer them in vain.
There’s no advantage in deceiving yourself. Even if you have mountains of jewels and as many servants as there are grains of sand along the Ganges, you see them when your eyes are open. But what about when your eyes are shut? You should realize then that everything you see is like a dream or illusion.
If you don’t find a teacher soon, you’ll live this life in vain. It’s true, you have the buddha-nature. But the help of a teacher you’ll never know it. Only one person in a million becomes enlightened without a teacher’s help. If, though, by the conjunction of conditions, someone understands what the Buddha meant, that person doesn’t need a teacher. Such a person has a natural awareness superior to anything taught. But unless you’re so blessed, study hard, and by means of instruction you’ll understand.
People who don’t understand and think they can do so without study are no different from those deluded souls who can’t tell white from black." Falsely proclaiming the Buddha-Dharma, such persons in fact blaspheme the Buddha and subvert the Dharma. They preach as if they were bringing rain. But theirs is the preaching of devils not of Buddhas. Their teacher is the King of Devils and their disciples are the Devil’s minions. Deluded people who follow such instruction unwittingly sink deeper in the Sea of Birth and Death. Unless they see their nature, how can people call themselves Buddhas they’re liars who deceive others into entering the realm of devils. Unless they see their nature, their preaching of the Twelvefold Canon is nothing but the preaching of devils. Their allegiance is to Mara, not to the Buddha. Unable to distinguish white from black, how can they escape birth and death?
Whoever sees his nature is a Buddha; whoever doesn’t is a mortal. But if you can find your buddha-nature apart from your mortal nature, where is it? Our mortal nature is our Buddha nature. Beyond this nature there’s no Buddha. The Buddha is our nature. There’s no Buddha besides this nature. And there’s no nature besides the Buddha.
But suppose I don’t see my nature, cant I still attain enlightenment by invoking Buddhas, reciting sutras, making offerings, observing precepts, Practicing devotions, or doing good works?
No, you can’t. Why not?
If you attain anything at all, it’s conditional, it’s karmic. It results in retribution. It turns the Wheel. And as long as you’re subject to birth and death, you’ll never attain enlightenment. To attain enlightenment you have to see your nature. Unless you see your nature, all this talk about cause and effect is nonsense. Buddhas don’t practice nonsense. A Buddha free of karma free of cause and effect. To say he attains anything at all is to slander a Buddha. What could he possibly attain? Even focusing on a mind, a power, an understanding, or a view is impossible for a Buddha. A Buddha isn’t one sided. The nature of his mind is basically empty, neither pure nor impure. He’s free of practice and realization. He’s free of cause and effect.
Now this idea of seeing one's own nature is confusing.
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Example
Take the sutra as a six sided dice
Different people see from different point of view and thus the confusion
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Originally posted by knightlll:
Now this idea of seeing one's own nature is confusing.
Dear knightlll, confusing or not, just need to remind yourself this fact: Buddha has mentioned in various sutras, that all Buddhas come to earth for one purpose, to show the way of the Buddhas to every sentient being, to help them gain quick and complete liberation from all suffering.There is no need to fret that you cannot or won't understand what Anatta or emptiness is about. I'm not trying to say you don't care or shut your ears, I'm saying just relax, believe in the compassion and wisdom of all Buddhas, believe that you can one day be like them.
That's all you need to do for your daily cultivation while trying to understand emptiness and anatta.
Take care. ^_^
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Originally posted by knightlll:
Now this idea of seeing one's own nature is confusing.
If you learn under a teacher... you will not be confused... lol
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
If you learn under a teacher... you will not be confused... lol
Yah. The ' I ' is not me and etc. lol. Many buddhist teachers reside in the East while i reside in the west. Need to travel a long distance. I wish more buddhist centres could be shifted to the west side of s'pore. -
[JK] Answer is based on my own understanding of teachings from Master Chin Kung, trying my best to translate into English, if anything inappropriate, pls forgive and correct me
1. I have posted this doubt as a separate post, so this is a just a re-cap. How should we interpret Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva's vows not to achieve Buddhahood until hell is empty?
1.1 Literally or figuratively? Is it a mere analogy, encouragment or reassurance of a superficial nature?
[JK] The focus is on self-sacrifice and compassion.
1.2 Ksitgarbha Bodhisattvas has already gone through many countless aeons since he made that vow and started guiding and delivering sentient beings. So long that he could have attained Buddhahood long ago. This is mentioned clearly by Sakayamuni Buddha. [Most of us know Bodhisattvas need to go through at least 3 great asamkyeya kalpas (三大阿僧祗劫） to attain Buddhahood]
[JK] In pureland buddhism, as long as one is reborn in Sukavathi, buddhahood can be achieved in a shorter time (10 kalpas).
Many Destruction eras had passed while the Bodhisattva is working hard on his cultivation and implementation of his vows. So this means there were countless periods where hells were destroyed in some worlds, but still existed in others. So hell beings in worlds experiencing the Destruction era would be reborn to suffer in the other worlds which do not have Destruction era yet. So hell in general had not once really been empty of suffering beings.
Why particularly the 20th small kalpa of our present Destruction era for total and complete liberation to occur for all samsaric beings in all ten directions?
Can I safely assume the vows cover all beings in all ten directions, from past, present and future?
2. There are countless Bodhisattvas and Buddhas in all ten directions; each Bodhisattva and Buddhas can have countless manifestations and their vows to save sentient beings are essentially the same as Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva, for compassion and wisdom is common for all of them.
2.1 So why is Sakayamuni Buddha praising Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva so much? Why is he encouraging us to seek refuge in the Bodhisattva? (To recite his name, cultivate his virtues, etc) Other Bodhisattvas are just as well-qualified to help us, isn't it? For example, Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva (观世音��).
[JK] According to Master Chin Kung, This is because fillial piety/respect for teachers/elders is a pre-requisite of compassion. Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva is the symbol of fillial piety. The analogy is like Ksitigarbha teaches primary one, Avalokitesvara teaches primary two. Without fillial piety and respect for teachers as the foundation, how can compassion be taught?
2.2 What have the other Bodhisattvas and Buddhas from all worlds and directions been doing during this period where Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva is implementing his vows? Is it just to wait or to look at us suffer? Is it just to teach dharma to the Bodhisattvas, arahants and heavenly beings?
If one Bodhisattva can have countless manifestations to teach countless beings in countless worlds in all ten directions from past/present/future, imagine what countless Bodhisattvas and Buddhas in all worlds and directions can do if they choose to appear in countless manifestations like Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva? Totally inconceivable! No sentient being would be lost, no sentient being would have to suffer for aeons in the 3 evil realms anymore.
[JK] Of course they are also helping but Ksitigarbha and Avalokitesvara are special to our world (缘深) as mentioned in the sutra. Another thing we must understand is that 众生有感,��有应. 感应 is not so simple to achieve if our mind is still full of money, fame, power everyday. If one prays for help from the Buddha/Bodhisattva, our mind must be pure at that moment of prayer (this is similar in other religions). Even in the pureland buddhism which places great emphasis on the external assistance from Amitabha buddha, it still requires great effort from within. In order to be reborn in Sukavathi, basic things like fillial piety, five precepts, recital of name of Amitabha budda with full concentration at the moment of death are pre-requisites. Therefore, one must understand that Buddhism places great emphasis on self-improvement
3. We have been taught in the sutra or teach others using the sutra to practise filial piety, to show eternal gratefulness and heartfelt appreciation towards our parents. But we have also been parents in our countless rebirths, and some of our children could be our parents now.
3.1 If any of our children has attained enlightment, sainthood or even reborn as heavenly beings, they should/would have wanted very much to help us to be happy too. But yet we fall and fall for aeons without really having anyone compassionate and patient enough to guide us for countless lifetimes till we attained liberation like what Ksitigarbha or Sakayamuni Buddha does for everyone. Why? How can this happen?
[JK] I consider myself lucky that they are so many living masters today guiding us. One example is teaching from Dalai Lama at http://www.dalailama.com. Besides living masters, we have the guidance from the past masters too. Here is one from Master Yin Kuang:
æ— è®ºåœ¨å®¶å‡ºå®¶ã€‚å¿…é¡»ä¸Šæ•¬ä¸‹å’Œã€‚å¿�人所ä¸�能å¿�。行人所ä¸�能行。代人之劳。æˆ�人之美。é�™å��常æ€�己过。闲谈ä¸�论人é�žã€‚è¡Œä½�å��å�§ã€‚ç©¿è¡£å�ƒé¥ã€‚从æœ�至暮。从暮至æœ�。 一å�¥ä½›å�·ã€‚ä¸�令间æ–。或å°�声念。或默念。除念佛外。ä¸�起别念。若或妄念一起。当下就è¦�教他消ç�。常生æƒæ„§å¿ƒå�Šå¿�悔心。纵有修æŒ�。总觉我工夫很浅。ä¸�自矜 夸。å�ªç®¡è‡ªå®¶ã€‚ä¸�管人家。å�ªçœ‹å¥½æ ·å�。ä¸�看å��æ ·å�。看一切人都是è�©è�¨ã€‚唯我一人实是凡夫。果能ä¾�我所说修行。决定å�¯ç”Ÿè¥¿æ–¹æž�ä¹�世界。
3.2 We often have to dedicate merits to all beings after doing any good deed, having good thoughts or reciting sutras, etc, and we are taught that our parents should be the first and main recipients of our merits. But is there any positive effect from our dedication?
If my sons/daughers from previous lifetimes are now Buddhists, born in this Dharma-ending age and he/she dedicates merits to all parents from countless lifetimes, then presumably all parents, including me should be able to receive the merit and benefit greatly from it. But do you feel anything? Do you see any change in you?
As such I am very lost and doubtful as to what role does merit dedication (回�) really play and what real benefits does it reap for all beings.
[JK] Merit is always limited as we are clouded by wild thoughts, discrimination and attachment every day. In the sutra, it is mentioned that one can only dedicate 1/7 of merit to others.