How do we know whether someone is enlightened?
-
Originally posted by sinweiy:
i'm quite sure there's a saying in PL school that Hinayana cannot be reborn in PL(let me look up in Infinity Life Sutra), unless they 回��大, meaning "last minute" believe and vow to be reborn in pure land. no vow and faith, then cannot born there. i'm thinking, not all Hinayana believe in PL, let along vow to reborn there.
/\
The part where you mention not all Hinayana believe in PL is true in my opinion and from what I have read so far. However, Arahants would find it easier to 回��大 upon any Buddha's advice than any of us. Remember, an Arahant has no ego, no dogmatic or false views. His wisdom cannot be understood by most of us, who have not even attained the 1st stage of sainthood.
If any Theravada practitioner believes in just the existence of Amitabha Buddha's Pureland and the inconceivable power of the Buddha's vows to deliver all sentient beings, regardless of level of understanding and practice, he/she cannot be considered as Thervada anymore. He/she definitely had heard/practised the Mahayana teachings for many lifetimes but something happened along the way and caused him/her to give up (Refer to Sariputra's previous life 'trial').
-
Originally posted by sinweiy:
yes, that's 出离心 like that of Lady Vaidehi in Comtemplation Sutra. Her husband was killed by her own son. bad family problem. very sadden. so she went to Buddha for help to see if there's a kind of practice to 'escape' from SUFFERING. "Escape" from suffering, affliction; samsara are all a good thing. Lady Vaidehi did practice very well.
出离心 is beginning path that slowly lead to Bodhicitta ��心. 出离心是入于�乘之门�,��心则是入于大乘的门�。
我们修人天ç¦�报，还是è¦�在三界以内æµ�转，达ä¸�到究竟的境界。如果ä¸�能å�‘起出离的志愿，远离烦æ�¼çš„苦以了脱生æ»ï¼Œæ˜¯å¾—ä¸�到涅盘的解脱ä¹�。而å�‘出离心å�ˆä½œé�žæ³•çš„æ�¶è¡Œï¼Œä¸šåŠ›èƒœè¿‡æ„¿åŠ›ï¼Œä¹Ÿæ˜¯ç‰å¦‚没å�‘出离心。
thinking of Escape while still continue one's own unwholesome karma and thinking that by going to PL, one can Enjoy for eternity, is what i mean is not right a thinking to have.
/\
Yup, obviously a person who wants to be reborn in Pureland cannot continue with one's unwholesome thoughts and deeds and thinks he/she can escape from the consequences of his accumulated evil by just reciting and wanting to go to the Pureland.
However, take note that, it is not easy for everyone to even want to fake reciting Amitabha Buddha's name and wanting to be reborn in Pureland.
Faking or escaping, whatever it is the mindset of corrupted sentient beings, implies some kind of implicit trust in the existence of Amitabha Buddha's ability to save all sentient beings and the real existence of his Pureland.
This is one angle of looking at the whole issue that I feel personally, we should not easily brush away, neglect, or condemn.
-
Originally posted by sinweiy:
it's not impossible. there are evil doers who at their last moment of death really deeply truely repent, and are able to go to PL. so i presume the "terms & conditions applied “ is true repenting.
note to people, this is not a good example to follow in the sense, that we can go all out and do bad things and wait for last minute to repent. if your repent is not true, also cannot.
/\
Totally agree, the desire to repent has to be absolutely from the heart. And combining that with the belief that Amitabha Buddha and his Pureland does exist and hence become very willing and sincere in wanting to be reborn there, will definitely guarantee one's successful rebirth in the Pureland.
-
Originally posted by distorted:
Qns: Did sakyamuni went to pureland and attain buddhahood or did he just realised and become one while as human? If pureland exist it is no different than being in the state of human realm since buddha did mentioned somwhere human has the best state to achieve it.
Pureland to go, heaven and all, remember these are skillful means of skill apply at that time. Outstanding mean of skill i must say, to think we still are so attach to these imagination even after century and many still cant see through this dust!
"it's not impossible. there are evil doers who at their last moment of death really deeply truely repent, and are able to go to PL. so i presume the "terms & conditions applied “ is true repenting."---sinweiy---you got it right
i'll do my evil and gear for that one last TOTO moment cos i'm hoplessly hopeful hahaha...
Now could we just get back to the topic:
How do we know whether someone is enlightened?
I will stop asking this question from now on, which is how we know whether someone is enlightened. I have come to a conclusion based on what the moderators and the rest have said that it is better to continue to do what we can to change our bad habits and thoughts than to try to understand or judge whether someone is enlightened.
No one here will give you an answer that you can understand or accept.
Why? There are two factors mainly: One, your level of wisdom. Two, the speaker's level of wisdom and practice of Buddhist teachings.
Only the Buddha can really tell for sure whether someone is enlightened. Other than that, it is better for all of us to refrain from asking this question or insisting on others telling you the 'formula' or guidelines to tell whether the person in front of you is enlightened.
-
Originally posted by sinweiy:
You can call it pureland mind i can call it no man land, we go nowhere.
sw: it lies in the eye's of the beholder. up to u.
why turn the dharma wheel again?
sw: as the dharma is forgotten so Buddha is needed to re-teach.
So did you see any englighten one lately?
sw: hmm...lol...ok. ultimately, i wanted to see everyone as enlightened, while i'm the only unenlighten person as taught by MCK.. but habits sometimes kicks in.
you dont have to.
sw: conventionally u do need. like u need words to describe something or event or idea. no words, people also cannot know what u refering. words is a form of skillful means per se. like finger pointing to the moon. the finger pointing is a mean, while the actual idea is to show the moon. no finger pointing or Dharma, nobody know where's nirvana per se.
I agree with SW that we need words to describe Buddhist concepts as words are indeed a form of skillful means per se, but nirvana is not something that can be pointed or something tangible like the moon, it is however, 'realised' by following the direction (Dharma) to which the finger(Buddha) points.
-
Originally posted by JitKiat:
Reciting amitabha encompasses 戒定慧. Control your wild thoughts and focus on reciting is 戒 leading to 定 through frequent practice. When we have sufficient 定, we would be able to receive merits of our buddha nature with infinite compassion and wisdom (慧) based on amitabha's vows.
I asked my mum (she already 60) to just recite amitaba without even explaining to her how good is PL. This is the only path that I have a chance to meet her there, isn't it?? So I may consider myself and my mum as escapists.
I totally agree with you that Reciting amitabha encompasses 戒定慧. We should not give up. We will find that it complements or contains every basic teaching of the Buddha.
Well, if your mom is illiterate or that she's thoroughly English-educated, then seriously at her age, reciting Amitabha Buddha's name in English or Mandarin will help her to attain peace of mind and body.
There is still a need to introduce her to what Amitabha Pureland's like, but in a more simplied way, not directly quoting the sutra's verses and leaving her to understand on her own. One also has to be patient and observant in knowing how to introduce Pureland at the right moment, in the right way so that she finds it easy to remember and practise.
I'm trying to cultivate patience, non-attachment and compassion. I have not succeeded yet at the moment. I try to be as simple as possible when talking about Pureland to my 85 year-old grandma. She's not illiterate but she is totally schooled in folk and taoist beliefs and is only comfortable with dialects and Mandarin.
"Escapist" in my opinion, need not be a derogative or demeaning term all the time. It depends, really on the intention or motives of the person concerned.
Ask yourself: if you are an 'escapist', why not 'escape' to heaven? Why not 'escape' to Maitreya Bodhisattva's abode at Tusita Heaven? How about Medicine Buddha's Pureland? There are so many choices and yet you choose to escape to Amitabha Buddha's Pureland?
You definitely have affinity with Amitabha Buddha and so does your mother. So I don't particularly need to worry for the both of you, for eventually I know I will see both of you in Amitabha Buddha's Pureland.
Take good care of your mom and learn more ways to introduce Pureland to her in easy to understand format.
You will succeed some day if you don't give up. ^_^
-
Originally posted by distorted:
Qns: Did sakyamuni went to pureland and attain buddhahood or did he just realised and become one while as human? If pureland exist it is no different than being in the state of human realm since buddha did mentioned somwhere human has the best state to achieve it.
Pureland to go, heaven and all, remember these are skillful means of skill apply at that time. Outstanding mean of skill i must say, to think we still are so attach to these imagination even after century and many still cant see through this dust!
"it's not impossible. there are evil doers who at their last moment of death really deeply truely repent, and are able to go to PL. so i presume the "terms & conditions applied “ is true repenting."---sinweiy---you got it right
i'll do my evil and gear for that one last TOTO
moment cos i'm hoplessly hopeful hahaha... Now could we just get back to the topic:
How do we know whether someone is enlightened?
What I would like to say is that Heaven, Pure Land, the 6 realms are all real. (though it should be noted that Heaven is still a realm in Samsara and is not the real goal of Buddhists. but PL is different) But if you cannot accept pure land, practice other dharma door that is suitable for you. If you become a real Bodhisattva in the future you will be able to know what is true and you can even visit those places. There are people who visited pure land and returned.
Here's someting by my Master who visited PL, and there are other similar cases and observations too --
Disciple: Master, how do we witness Sukhavathi?
Master Shen Kai: That's easy. But Sukhavathi is very far away. How far? It's passing through hundreds of thousands of millions of Buddhalands. In between this hundreds of thousands of millions of Buddhalands are not Buddhalands but Hui Tu. Buddhalands are pure where Buddhas dwell. Sukhavathi is hence very very far away. Far does not mean we don't believe.
In the sutras, Buddha used to explain that it's very very near. So near that nobody believe it's true. There's no choice as sentient beings are too greedy, hence say it's very very far away and not easy to go or reach. So He expound the Amitabha Sutra, where Buddha spoke without people asking. If a person is not greedy, then Dharmakaya is very near as it encompass everything.
Since it's entire existence, it's so near to reach like space everywhere exist Dharmakaya. Without Dharmakaya, Earth cannot be in the space. Cars cannot works. Every thing is benefited by Dharmakaya.
When people do business, they need an initial funding, now Buddha say you don't need that initial funding, you believe in Amitabha and recite His name.
When one see people wearing a gold necklace, but it's just a piece of metal chain like the one you see in jail to chain prisioners. Then Buddha told sentient beings not to be obsess with gold, you just need to recite Amitabha and don't need any initial funding and you can reborn in a place where gold is use for building constructions.
So does Sukhavathi really exist? Yes. Don't think Buddha is lying. You can GO NOW and witness yourself and come back to tell people. Master tell you I been there before, you all might disbelieve. So I will describe it to you.
Sentient beings on Earth are very small, Bodhisattvas of Sukhavathi are really Big and tall. A person standing next to Amitabha only reach the height of Amitabha's toe! When I reached Sukhavathi, only wish to pay homage to Amitabha, and adore Amitabha.
Amitabha Buddha reply: What do you seek here in Sukhavathi?
Shen Kai: Honored One, i came to seek Dharma.
Amitabha Buddha ask: What kind of Dharma?
Shen Kai: i'm not sure. Seeing Amitabha's forehead is adorned with a curled hair. i wisk to seek that Dharma, Honorable One.
(Back to reality.) That's how I cultivate and got my curled hair, but this Dharma method cannot anyhow expound to people. It's is because you people have doubt in Sukhavathi. Thinking it doesn't exist. Hence I tell you my experience. Due to the busy schedule, the white hair is curled. When it grew longer to 3 inch, it will extend when i'm washing the face. That's the proof.
How did Ocean of suffering (ku hai wu bian) come about? Because beings of samsara cannot sever emotion, love and greed. Sentinet beings cry a lot. Separation from friend, family, love ones, people cry. Son is leaving, mother crys, so does the son. Mother is dying, sons also crys. When people want's to eat, the mouth starts to water. This is greed. People need to work, they swear. In a life them, people generate so many water. One person, say one bucket of water, 100 pax, 100 bucket form a pool of water. If millions of millions of people cannot sever emotion, love and greed, form an Ocean of water.
In our world there's male and female. Those who goes to jail, 99% are involve with female. But in Sukhavathi, there's not male nor female form.
(translated by Sinweiy) -
Originally posted by Spnw07:
I will stop asking this question from now on, which is how we know whether someone is enlightened. I have come to a conclusion based on what the moderators and the rest have said that it is better to continue to do what we can to change our bad habits and thoughts than to try to understand or judge whether someone is enlightened.
No one here will give you an answer that you can understand or accept.
Why? There are two factors mainly: One, your level of wisdom. Two, the speaker's level of wisdom and practice of Buddhist teachings.
Only the Buddha can really tell for sure whether someone is enlightened. Other than that, it is better for all of us to refrain from asking this question or insisting on others telling you the 'formula' or guidelines to tell whether the person in front of you is enlightened.
Actually, we can know whether someone is enlightened. Definitely not only Buddhas can tell. In fact you can even tell what stage is he at. As I said earlier, the criteria is that you have to be familiar with the Good maps of enlightenment. Of course, if you are enlightened yourself, you should be able to tell who is enlightened and who is not. Or if you are enlightened + familiar with the maps of enlightenment, that is even better. But if you are not, at least you must be familiar with what enlightenment is really about and the maps of enlightenment, then you can distinguish whether someone is enlightened and to what degree. As I said earlier because I am familiar with the maps I can sometimes tell whether one is enlightened or even to what degrees, though not all the time. Of course the greater benefit (of familiarity with the maps) is that one is able to tell where one is when we develope certain experiences.
But not all maps of enlightenment are good. Some are inaccurate, some are dogmatic and some are entirely based on assumptions and also the action and emotional models, such as what behaviors he wld or wld not do. Then again if you look into history, there are lots of crazy wisdom teachers both in the Vajrayana and Zen tradition that continue to drink and seemingly womanize after their realisation, but they have a reason and I shall not go into that too deeply. But just to let you know that enlightened people does not mean they cannot do certain things.
There are other models of enlightenment that says that certain emotions disappear after each stage of enlightenment, which is somewhat true (but is actually more like how enlightened people were able to see the true nature of their emotions that arise so as to better manage them, then the emotions not really arising) but then again, normal people may also lack certain emotions (such as anger) if they are generally calm people or have good anger management or are strong in shamatha and metta. And also there are enlightened people who are seemingly angry, whether they are really angry you don't know. Maybe they are simply showing the wrathful form of Avalokitesvara. So again, the emotional and action models fail at this point. They cannot really show you whether a person is enlightened or not. Unlike what people think, enlightened people do not *necessarily* need to appear calm and peaceful.
The only way to really know is, like I said, by the criteria of their insights. Here comes the 'good maps of enlightenment' that strictly based on stages of realisation in terms of insights into ultimate reality, or stages of yogic insights. What are the good maps of enlightenment? Those that speaks of the 'non-dual' models -- models that talk about stages of increased perception/insights of non-duality, luminous-emptiness, etc. I have said previously, Dharma Dan's stages of the 4 paths is one of them. Others may include the 10 bhumis as presented in terms of nondual experience in Lankavatara Sutra, the Tibetan presentation of the 10 bhumis in terms of yogic experience, the 5 ranks of Tozan, Thusness's six stages of experience, (you can find some of them in my blog http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/) and many more that are used in different traditions that actually are very similar and related to each other. And in fact if you are a lineaged teacher in the various traditions, that means you are already enlightened. They don't let you be a real lineaged teacher until you are enlightened. That is why they often say, seek a teacher from proper lineages.
An example of the Tibetan presentation of the 10 bhumis in terms of 4 stages of yogic experience (see http://www.khandro.net/Buddhism_maha_stages.htm) and in this context of the Mahamudra system where the last 3 stages are stages of an Arya (enlightened being):
Per Gampopa
A lucid, unceasing awareness of the moment is the one-pointed stage of yoga.
Understanding the essential state of the awareness as non-arising, transcending all conceptual modes, is the free-from-elaboration stage of yoga.
Understanding the diverse appearances as being one from the standpoint of their intrinsic nature is the one flavor yoga.
An unceasing realization of the union of appearance and their intrinsic emptiness is the great equipoise of the non-meditation yoga.
So anyway, knowing the various stages one will be able to tell if someone else is enlightened by his dharma expression. Usually his words and teachings wld reflect his experience, and if he is truly enlightened then his understand will be in line with Buddha's and with the nature of reality. What he say will one way or another be similar essentially to the truly enlightened sages. If he is still not that realised then his expression would be different based on his current insight.
By the way, you may like to listen to this MP3 by Daniel Ingram (Dharma Dan), http://www.trumix.com/podshows/2100538
It is called 'Enlightened Teachers'.
In our latest podcast with Theravada teacher Daniel Ingram he breaches the taboo of enlightenment by discussing the enlightenment of other teachers. Not only that but he argues for a more transparent approach to enlightenment within certain teaching circles, in hopes that enlightenment can become more attainable. Listen and see why he thinks this will help.
-
Originally posted by Spnw07:
Sent you a PM.
-
Originally posted by sinweiy:
it simply mean those are the 回��大 "arhats". they are no longer small arahat, they are maha-arahats as mentioned in Amitabha Sutra.
to think again. "small" arahats also have their own 'pureland'. but this "hinayana pureland" is different from Mahayana pureland.
III. The Different Types of Pure Lands
[In addition to the Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss, there are many other pure lands.] The many pure lands can be classified into four main categories: the distinctive pure lands of the Mahayana School, the pure land of the Three Vehicles, the pure land of the Five Vehicles, and the pure land on Earth.
http://www.blia.org/english/publications/booklet/pages/14.htm
/\
-
Originally posted by Spnw07:
However, Arahants would find it easier to 回��大 upon any Buddha's advice than any of us. Remember, an Arahant has no ego, no dogmatic or false views. His wisdom cannot be understood by most of us, who have not even attained the 1st stage of sainthood.
i'm thinking 回��大 turning toward mahayana can also be refering to any Buddhists practicing hinayana buddhism at any level. they may or may not even have reached Stream entry. at any point, suddenly wish to turn to mahayana is possible.ever heard the sutra that say that Arahat and Praetyka-Buddha will stay in their "nirvana" for like 20 and 10 mahakalpas respectively, before they wish to come out of their "nirvana" and learn to become Buddha/bodhisattva? (AEN can quote?)
/\
-
Originally posted by sinweiy:
i'm thinking 回��大 turning toward mahayana can also be refering to any Buddhists practicing hinayana buddhism at any level. they may or may not even have reached Stream entry. at any point, suddenly wish to turn to mahayana is possible.ever heard the sutra that say that Arahat and Praetyka-Buddha will stay in their "nirvana" for like 20 and 10 mahakalpas respectively, before they wish to come out of their "nirvana" and learn to become Buddha/bodhisattva? (AEN can quote?)
/\
Mahaparinirvana Sutra:
"O good man! How is one arrived, having not yet arrived? Non-arriving is Great Nirvana. Why is one arrived? Because one eternally cuts away greed, anger and ignorance, and all evil actions of body and mouth; because one does not receive impure things; because one does not perform the four grave offences; because one does not slander the vaipulya sutras; because one does not become an icchantika, and because one does not commit the five deadly sins. For these reasons, we say that one arrives, having not yet arrived. Now, the srotapanna arrvies after 80,000 kalpas, the sakrdagamin arrives after 60,000 kalpas, the anagamin after 40,000 kalpas, and the arhat after 20,000 kalpas, and the pratyekabuddha after 10,000 kalpas. For this reason, we say that one has arrived, while not yet having arrived. -
Originally posted by sinweiy:
to think again. "small" arahats also have their own 'pureland'. but this "hinayana pureland" is different from Mahayana pureland.
III. The Different Types of Pure Lands
[In addition to the Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss, there are many other pure lands.] The many pure lands can be classified into four main categories: the distinctive pure lands of the Mahayana School, the pure land of the Three Vehicles, the pure land of the Five Vehicles, and the pure land on Earth.
http://www.blia.org/english/publications/booklet/pages/14.htm
/\
Yeah, I also remembered there was a pure land for the Hinayanas...
-
Better start to generate bodhicitta while we still in samsara, once a person become Arahat, it is difficult to convince himself to come back to samsara to help sentient beings.
-
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Actually, we can know whether someone is enlightened. Definitely not only Buddhas can tell. In fact you can even tell what stage is he at. As I said earlier, the criteria is that you have to be familiar with the Good maps of enlightenment. Of course, if you are enlightened yourself, you should be able to tell who is enlightened and who is not. Or if you are enlightened + familiar with the maps of enlightenment, that is even better. But if you are not, at least you must be familiar with what enlightenment is really about and the maps of enlightenment, then you can distinguish whether someone is enlightened and to what degree. As I said earlier because I am familiar with the maps I can sometimes tell whether one is enlightened or even to what degrees, though not all the time. Of course the greater benefit (of familiarity with the maps) is that one is able to tell where one is when we develope certain experiences.
But not all maps of enlightenment are good. Some are inaccurate, some are dogmatic and some are entirely based on assumptions and also the action and emotional models, such as what behaviors he wld or wld not do. Then again if you look into history, there are lots of crazy wisdom teachers both in the Vajrayana and Zen tradition that continue to drink and seemingly womanize after their realisation, but they have a reason and I shall not go into that too deeply. But just to let you know that enlightened people does not mean they cannot do certain things.
There are other models of enlightenment that says that certain emotions disappear after each stage of enlightenment, which is somewhat true (but is actually more like how enlightened people were able to see the true nature of their emotions that arise so as to better manage them, then the emotions not really arising) but then again, normal people may also lack certain emotions (such as anger) if they are generally calm people or have good anger management or are strong in shamatha and metta. And also there are enlightened people who are seemingly angry, whether they are really angry you don't know. Maybe they are simply showing the wrathful form of Avalokitesvara. So again, the emotional and action models fail at this point. They cannot really show you whether a person is enlightened or not. Unlike what people think, enlightened people do not *necessarily* need to appear calm and peaceful.
The only way to really know is, like I said, by the criteria of their insights. Here comes the 'good maps of enlightenment' that strictly based on stages of realisation in terms of insights into ultimate reality, or stages of yogic insights. What are the good maps of enlightenment? Those that speaks of the 'non-dual' models -- models that talk about stages of increased perception/insights of non-duality, luminous-emptiness, etc. I have said previously, Dharma Dan's stages of the 4 paths is one of them. Others may include the 10 bhumis as presented in terms of nondual experience in Lankavatara Sutra, the Tibetan presentation of the 10 bhumis in terms of yogic experience, the 5 ranks of Tozan, Thusness's six stages of experience, (you can find some of them in my blog http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/) and many more that are used in different traditions that actually are very similar and related to each other. And in fact if you are a lineaged teacher in the various traditions, that means you are already enlightened. They don't let you be a real lineaged teacher until you are enlightened. That is why they often say, seek a teacher from proper lineages...
I mentioned that only Buddhas can tell, cos I was hoping to convey the message that one should not be too concerned or hung up about how to tell whether a person is enlightened.
If one fulfills the criteria to be taught the good maps to discern the various stages of enlightment, then I do not see any problem at all.
However, my opinion is that generally, there would a number of people (maybe most) who cannot fulfil those strict spiritual progress criteria in their entire lives to have the maps revealed and taught to them. Therefore I wish to caution that it would only bring harm to those who insist on people telling them no matter what.
-
Originally posted by sinweiy:
i'm thinking 回��大 turning toward mahayana can also be refering to any Buddhists practicing hinayana buddhism at any level. they may or may not even have reached Stream entry. at any point, suddenly wish to turn to mahayana is possible.ever heard the sutra that say that Arahat and Praetyka-Buddha will stay in their "nirvana" for like 20 and 10 mahakalpas respectively, before they wish to come out of their "nirvana" and learn to become Buddha/bodhisattva? (AEN can quote?)
/\
I agree that it can refer to any Buddhists suddenly deciding to turn to Mahayana, having reached or not yet reached stream entry.
But I wish to emphasise a confirmed and stable stage of liberation from rebirths, and one who has attained the first stream entry would only need to be reborn 7 times in the Saha world before he/she gains liberation from further rebirths.
-
Originally posted by sinweiy:
to think again. "small" arahats also have their own 'pureland'. but this "hinayana pureland" is different from Mahayana pureland.
III. The Different Types of Pure Lands
[In addition to the Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss, there are many other pure lands.] The many pure lands can be classified into four main categories: the distinctive pure lands of the Mahayana School, the pure land of the Three Vehicles, the pure land of the Five Vehicles, and the pure land on Earth.
http://www.blia.org/english/publications/booklet/pages/14.htm
however to be more specific the word Pure land is only for Buddhas. the pureland of Bodhisattvas cannot be call pureland, if strickly speaking.
As the PL of bodhisattvas are formulated by karmic force有æ¼�业力, while the Pureland of Buddha (Amitabha) is manifested from the Dharmakaya. PL of bodhisattvas is known as 庄严净土。Buddha's PL is purely call æˆ�就净土. PL of Maitreya, ie inner court of Tusita heaven, is in fact known as 秽土ä¸çš„净土. But it's call "pureland" because Maitreya is there, so the disciples dare not go astray.
Normally, in Amitabha Pureland, even when disciples are not with Amitabha or go into the "forest", the surround will still make them think of Buddha, Sangha and Dharma. but when one is reborn in Tusita heaven, and when one see the form(goddess or gold) and hear the pretty sound, they may still generate desire/lust.
So Amitabha Pureland is different in the sense that it's based on Fruition 果报体 of Dharmakaya. and a Pureland cannot be form by karmic force, it must be totally Pure. and Only the Buddha's Dharmakaya is Purest. as the saying goes 三贤�圣�果报，唯佛一人居净土。
/\
-
Story about Tusita Heaven as told by Master Chin Kung:
ä½›ç»�里头有个例å�ï¼Œæ— ç�€ã€�天亲è�©è�¨çš„三兄弟，这个故事很多人知é�“。他们兄弟当ä¸ï¼Œå¸ˆå�觉是è€�大，是è€�å‡ ï¼Ÿæˆ‘è®°ä¸�清楚了，功夫ä¸�é”™ï¼Œä¸Šç”Ÿå…œçŽ‡å¤©ã€‚ä»–ä»¬çº¦å¥½ï¼Œä½ åˆ°å…œçŽ‡å¤©ä¹‹å¾Œï¼Œè¦�回æ�¥æŠ¥ä¸ªä¿¡ã€‚但是师å�觉走了之後，很多年没消æ�¯ã€‚æ— ç�€è�©è�¨å¾€ç”Ÿäº†ï¼Œä»–ä»¬æ˜¯ç”Ÿå…œçŽ‡å†…é™¢ã€‚æ— ç�€è�©è�¨å¾€ç”Ÿä¸‰å¹´ä¹‹å¾Œï¼Œå›žæ�¥å‘Šè¯‰å¤©äº²ï¼Œå¤©äº²æ˜¯å°�弟，告诉他往生到兜率天的情形。天亲è�©è�¨è·Ÿä»–è®²ï¼šä½ åŽ»äº†æ€Žéº½è¿™éº½ä¹…æ‰�æ�¥ï¼Œä¸‰å¹´äº†ã€‚他说：没有，我å�ªåœ¨å…œçŽ‡å¤©æ‰“个转，立刻就回æ�¥äº†ã€‚兜率天的一年，是我们人间四百年。他一到那里，赶快就回æ�¥æŠ¥ä¿¡ï¼Œä¸‰å¹´ï¼Œäººé—´ä¸‰å¹´äº†ã€‚他就问他：师å�觉呢？他说：师å�觉迷惑了，兜率天是在内院，外院五欲å…尘的享å�—，凡夫ä¸�能比，忉利天也ä¸�能比，夜摩天也ä¸�能比，他被那些天女迷ä½�了，没有到内院去。 -
normally have yellow ring behind the head or halo above the head.
-
I do think that anyone can reach to pureland of Amitabha with the right conditions, even though they have done some unwholesome acitivites in their current life. Though i don't really understand what is the right conditions that occur for one to reach pureland of Amitabha, one of the possible reasons could be their past life merits and the right mentality on their deathbed ?
And the other condition is the vows of Amitabha.
It is not easy for anyone to reach to any pureland. Amitabha pureland is perhaps one of the most easiest for anyone to reach to.
However, i could like to ask what up with the western and eastern direction for pureland ?
So does it means that it really locates at the western direction of our compass here ?
thanks
-
Originally posted by Isis:
I do think that anyone can reach to pureland of Amitabha with the right conditions, even though they have done some unwholesome acitivites in their current life. Though i don't really understand what is the right conditions that occur for one to reach pureland of Amitabha, one of the possible reasons could be their past life merits and the right mentality on their deathbed ?
And the other condition is the vows of Amitabha.
It is not easy for anyone to reach to any pureland. Amitabha pureland is perhaps one of the most easiest for anyone to reach to.
However, i could like to ask what up with the western and eastern direction for pureland ?
So does it means that it really locates at the western direction of our compass here ?
thanks
right condition , unwavering of thoughts in Amitabha
eastern and western direction , accordance to sunrise and sunset
in a higher level of practice ,there isnt a east and west
One recite Amitabha ,sees self-nature Amitabha
-
Originally posted by Isis:
I do think that anyone can reach to pureland of Amitabha with the right conditions, even though they have done some unwholesome acitivites in their current life. Though i don't really understand what is the right conditions that occur for one to reach pureland of Amitabha, one of the possible reasons could be their past life merits and the right mentality on their deathbed ?
And the other condition is the vows of Amitabha.
It is not easy for anyone to reach to any pureland. Amitabha pureland is perhaps one of the most easiest for anyone to reach to.
However, i could like to ask what up with the western and eastern direction for pureland ?
So does it means that it really locates at the western direction of our compass here ?
thanks
普广大士问佛。�方俱有佛土。何以独赞西方。佛言阎浮�人。心多�乱。令其专心一境。乃得往生。以诸佛�一法性身。念一佛。�念一切佛故。
i think when we are really in the situation of deathbed, direction, doesn't really matter anymore. you just close the eyes and recite the Name.
i used to think it's real in the beginning, then as i practice further i also think that it's real and unreal at the same time (ie emptiness/non-dual). People will say that the form of pureland is the skillful mean. but now i'm having this feeling that emptiness IS the skillful mean, while Pure Land is the Absolute.
Just like Normal people unknowingly see mountain as mountain. But when they start practicing, mountain is not mountain. And when enlightened, mountain is still mountain. But this time, it's a luminosity of the mountain.why to you think in Amitabha Sutra, Shakyamuni Buddha asked Buddha's of the six directions to witness what He said was true that Amitabha Pureland is From here, passing through hundreds of thousands of millions of Buddhalands to the West there is a world called Utmost Happiness. In this land a Buddha called Amitabha right now teaches the Dharma.
....Because it is! People who thinks that Pureland is emptiness, would not be reborn "there", as the mind is dwelling in emptiness instead of form. (now i know how Grand Master Yin Guang felt).ordinary people generally think that if the Pure Land is Mind-Only, then it does not exist. This is the understanding of demons and externalists. Such a deluded view, which appears correct but is in reality wrong, affects more than half of all people and causes practitioners to forfeit true benefits.--Grand Master Yin Guang
the essence of Amitabha Sutra is in this very paragraph:-
At that time, the Buddha told the elder Shariputra:
"Passing from here through hundreds of thousands of millions of Buddha-lands to the West, there is a land called Ultimate Bliss. In this land, at this moment, a Buddha named Amitabha teaches the Dharma.--Amitabha Sutra
When Buddha say something like this, Buddha do not say this for any Additional meaning nor Subtract any meaning from it.
It Just Simply mean Passing from here through hundreds of thousands of millions of Buddha-lands to the West, there is a land called Ultimate Bliss. In this land, at this moment, a Buddha named Amitabha teaches the Dharma!
/\